cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:03 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 8:54 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:59 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:51 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:45 pm
Do you consider it unpatriotic to wear MAGA gear ?
Nope. In America? We wear what we want. It's the 1st amendment for a reason.
Stand for the flag on the national anthem, as I do? Patriotic.
Don't stand for the flag and the national anthem because you're unhappy with our government? Patriotic.
You didn't answer my question: what does the US Flag Represent?
It represents many things to different people.
When I see it, I think of all those who sacrificed & gave their lives in service to it.
That's who I think about when standing for the national anthem,
so I guess that's what it represents to me.
Certainly that's what many think of when seeing that flag, perfectly reasonable IMO.
But it's the flag of the United States of America, our federal union, our Constitutionally based rule of law not men, democratic republic.
It represents all of us who are citizens as well as our ancestors who worked to make this country what it is today. Including those died in service...and those who lived in service.
So, at least to me, the proper understanding is nearly sacred...but it is shocking to me that what should be sacred as been so shamefully sullied by those who claim to be patriotic, wrapping themselves in the flag, but who so clearly hate, dislike, distrust our very form of government and those who work in service today.
disgusting.
And I agree with those saying it's become difficult to fly the flag with the same confidence that we won't be misunderstood as MAGA. Which is a shame.
BTW, I'm perfectly fine as well with those who utilize the flag or anthem or other symbolism to express their protest against the current realities in which our country still does not live up to its ideals. Protesting and working for a 'more perfect union' is indeed patriotic as well...but not via violence or hate.
Yes, Cradle, those who carried the Blue Lives Matter flags during the insurrection contributed to as unpatriotic an act as one can imagine, beating on policemen defending democracy, that which the Stars and Stripes actually represents, in an effort to overturn a legitimate election in favor of installing a corrupt tyrant. Any question as to where those insurrectionists true loyalties lie became obvious. And it wasn't to "blue lives".
It's this immense hypocrisy that I'm addressing.
Anyone waving the Blue Lives Matter flag that tried to break into the capital is a huge hypocrite. If you waved the Blue Lives Matter flag to the protest at the capital steps that is a different matter. Are you saying that any protester waving any flag that only marched to the capital steps to protest are all unpatriotic by default because they protested in the first place. I have my Betsy Ross flag I purchased right after 9/11. Today that flag is looked upon by many FLP pinheads as a symbol of the FRC nutjobs. The truth is it is simply an American flag and a beautiful one at that. If I fly it in front of my house today, some angry, narrow minded people will only see that flag as a symbol of FRC extremism. They no longer see an American flag.
I'm saying that waving the flag, any flag, is not a guarantee of patriotism.
AND I'm saying that it's an awful shame but these symbols have been badly sullied by their usage as symbols of what I believe can correctly be described as fascism. Indeed, it makes it difficult to not wonder what the flag waver is communicating when we see it being most vigorously waved.
My mother innocently bought a replacement American flag for the dock at the lake, the prior one was in tatters and hadn't been replaced by our landlord. We did put it up, as we'd have previously done, but we did wonder whether other lake goers would misunderstand us as MAGA fascists. I drew the line at putting it up behind the speed boat, a favorite display by MAGA types now.
Yes, your Betsy Ross flag has been specifically claimed by the far right extremists...an even stronger representation of their ideology. We've previously discussed their rationale...again, a shame.
As to the Blue Lives Matter flag, we agree as to hypocrisy...but I also think the flag and waving it at any event is really saying the flag waver doesn't care about and/or rejects concerns about police violence, especially racially based violence. There can be exceptions in one's intent, but that's what it represents as used primarily. (the Confederate flag
can just be intended as a symbol of 'rebellious youth' but that's not what is commonly understood, rather it's typically a direct statement of racial bigotry and intimidation).
As to the protestors who did not break down doors but were 'merely in Washington to protest'....based on a mistaken view of the election outcome because of the Big Lie, I think there was a thin line. Many of them, including my brother-in-law, did not directly engage in any violence. However most did hope to be part of reversing the outcome of the election, not merely "protest". And they marched side by side with those carrying Confederate flags, Qanon symbols, and participated in chants calling for reversal of the election, part of an attempt at intimidation to do so.
In my brother-in-law's case he claims he had no expectation that the election would be reversed, just expected to hear some speeches, and didn't witness any violence (though he did get tear gas in his eyes 3 times and lost his phone in the press of people)...and he was on the Capitol steps, which itself was illegal though he says he didn't know that. Yes, being part of a mob can cause one to do things one would never consider when alone.
I don't see my brother in law's actions as actually 'patriotic' though he had thought so at the time. I'll defend his right to protest, peacefully, even when so mistaken. But he was part of a mob that tried to overturn democracy and if he doesn't reject that effort (as he has the violence at least) he'd be no patriot.
And anyone still supporting the Big Lie is definitely not a patriot. And yet they claim to be.
