NCAA Tournament Selection

[boredatwork]

[quote=HomerCoach post_id=363625 time=<a href="tel:1651430099">1651430099</a> user_id=3453]
[quote=overandback post_id=363607 time=<a href="tel:1651428752">1651428752</a> user_id=1361]
Muhlenberg and F&M (and Ursinus) finished at 5-3 in CC play.
F&M beat Muhlenberg.
What is the tiebreaker that got Mules into the tournament and has F&M out?

Muhlenberg has the better goal differential between the 3 tied teams.

Next, Ursinus beat F&M head-to-head.
[/quote]


Thanks but I’m still lost on this.

From CC website:
Tie-Breaking Formulas
1. Head-to-Head Centennial Conference play among tied teams;
2. Record versus teams in descending order of standing;
3. Goal-differential in games among tied teams; if tie(s) still exist(s), then fewest goals allowed in games against teams
in descending order of standing;



All three are tied after #1 and 2.
Muhlenberg gets in as the 2 seed via #3a -
So to break the F&M/Ursinus tie we go to 3b.
Fewest goals allowed vs Dickinson…
F&M allowed 13 goals to devils
Ursinus allowed 14 to devils.
[/quote]

Usually once you have broken the 3 way tie and once muhlenberg gets the 3 seed it starts over again with head to head with tied teams, ursinus and F&M. Ursinus bear F&M head to head

[InsiderRoll]

Giving this a go. Pool C is going to be interesting.

The committee will try to avoid having any teams fly. That means a 500 miles travel limit in the first round. The only teams I have flying are Hanover and Dubuque.

North

At RIT
1) RIT (Liberty) vs Grove City(PAC)/SUNY-Poly (North Atlantic)
8) RPI (Pool C) vs Cortland (SUNYAC)

At SJFC
4) St. John Fisher (Empire 8) vs John Carroll (OAC)
5) St. Lawrence (Pool C) vs Stevens Tech (MAC-Freedom)

At Union
2) Union (Pool C) vs UMass-Boston (Little East)/SUNY-Maritime (Skyline)
7) MIT (NEWMAC) vs Amherst (Pool C)

At Tufts
3) Tufts (NESCAC) vs Norwich (Great Northeast)
6) Bowdoin (Pool C) vs Western New England (CCC)

South

At CNU
1) Christopher Newport (Pool B) vs Southern Va. (USA-South)/Hanover(HCAC)
8) Lynchburg (Pool C) vs Cabrini (Atlantic East)

At Dickinson
4) Dickinson (Centennial) vs Catholic (Landmark)
5) York (MAC-Commonwealth) vs Gettysburg (Pool C)

At Salisbury
2) Salisbury (Pool C) vs Stockton (CSAC)/Dubuque (Midwest)
7) Washington and Lee (ODAC) vs Wesleyan (Pool C)

At Denison
3) Denison (NCAC) vs Sewanee (SAA)/Aurora (NACC)
6) Hope (MIAA) vs Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW)

Pool B (1)
Christopher Newport

Pool C (10)
Salisbury
Union
St. Lawrence
Bowdoin
Lynchburg
Amherst
Gettysburg
RPI
Stevenson
Wesleyan

[DeepPocket]

I’ve come to expect a murderer’s row quadrant, two reasonably constructed quadrants and a cake walk quadrant… In the name of reduced travel costs of course.
Who will get fast tracked this year?

[Jumbo]

Giving this a go. Pool C is going to be interesting.

The committee will try to avoid having any teams fly. That means a 500 miles travel limit in the first round. The only teams I have flying are Hanover and Dubuque.

North

At RIT
1) RIT (Liberty) vs Grove City(PAC)/SUNY-Poly (North Atlantic)
8) RPI (Pool C) vs Cortland (SUNYAC)

At SJFC
4) St. John Fisher (Empire 8) vs John Carroll (OAC)
5) St. Lawrence (Pool C) vs Stevens Tech (MAC-Freedom)

At Union
2) Union (Pool C) vs UMass-Boston (Little East)/SUNY-Maritime (Skyline)
7) MIT (NEWMAC) vs Amherst (Pool C)

At Tufts
3) Tufts (NESCAC) vs Norwich (Great Northeast)
6) Bowdoin (Pool C) vs Western New England (CCC)

South

At CNU
1) Christopher Newport (Pool B) vs Southern Va. (USA-South)/Hanover(HCAC)
8) Lynchburg (Pool C) vs Cabrini (Atlantic East)

At Dickinson
4) Dickinson (Centennial) vs Catholic (Landmark)
5) York (MAC-Commonwealth) vs Gettysburg (Pool C)

At Salisbury
2) Salisbury (Pool C) vs Stockton (CSAC)/Dubuque (Midwest)
7) Washington and Lee (ODAC) vs Wesleyan (Pool C)

At Denison
3) Denison (NCAC) vs Sewanee (SAA)/Aurora (NACC)
6) Hope (MIAA) vs Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW)

Pool B (1)
Christopher Newport

Pool C (10)
Salisbury
Union
St. Lawrence
Bowdoin
Lynchburg
Amherst
Gettysburg
RPI
Stevenson
Wesleyan

I don’t see York (6) playing Gettysburg (15) in the first round. Same with Lynchburg (11) playing Cabrini (13)

[ICGrad]

I've long believed Pool B teams should be ineligible for Pool C bids. Would be hysterical if that were the case this year.

[Asgot]

Giving this a go. Pool C is going to be interesting.

The committee will try to avoid having any teams fly. That means a 500 miles travel limit in the first round. The only teams I have flying are Hanover and Dubuque.

North

At RIT
1) RIT (Liberty) vs Grove City(PAC)/SUNY-Poly (North Atlantic)
8) RPI (Pool C) vs Cortland (SUNYAC)

At SJFC
4) St. John Fisher (Empire 8) vs John Carroll (OAC)
5) St. Lawrence (Pool C) vs Stevens Tech (MAC-Freedom)

At Union
2) Union (Pool C) vs UMass-Boston (Little East)/SUNY-Maritime (Skyline)
7) MIT (NEWMAC) vs Amherst (Pool C)

At Tufts
3) Tufts (NESCAC) vs Norwich (Great Northeast)
6) Bowdoin (Pool C) vs Western New England (CCC)

South

At CNU
1) Christopher Newport (Pool B) vs Southern Va. (USA-South)/Hanover(HCAC)
8) Lynchburg (Pool C) vs Cabrini (Atlantic East)

At Dickinson
4) Dickinson (Centennial) vs Catholic (Landmark)
5) York (MAC-Commonwealth) vs Gettysburg (Pool C)

At Salisbury
2) Salisbury (Pool C) vs Stockton (CSAC)/Dubuque (Midwest)
7) Washington and Lee (ODAC) vs Wesleyan (Pool C)

At Denison
3) Denison (NCAC) vs Sewanee (SAA)/Aurora (NACC)
6) Hope (MIAA) vs Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW)

Pool B (1)
Christopher Newport

Pool C (10)
Salisbury
Union
St. Lawrence
Bowdoin
Lynchburg
Amherst
Gettysburg
RPI
Stevenson
Wesleyan

Don't see how York has to travel in the first round and why would an unranked Denison team get to host? I understand RPI but why would you punish teams for playing a harder schedule and all of the teams that were on both Dickinson and Yorks schedule (5 games) york had better wins against 4 of them/ Without a head to head the schedule should matter and the fact that York only 2 losses were to top-ranked teams while Dickinson highest ranked game was against # 13 Cabrini. That bracket seems like a Murders row of teams in comparison to most of the other brackets. I fully admit that I do not completely understand D3 bracketology, but if it is to be regional shouldn't Stevens be in the south and not Wesleyan, and wasn't York in the north last year?

[InsiderRoll]

Giving this a go. Pool C is going to be interesting.

The committee will try to avoid having any teams fly. That means a 500 miles travel limit in the first round. The only teams I have flying are Hanover and Dubuque.

North

At RIT
1) RIT (Liberty) vs Grove City(PAC)/SUNY-Poly (North Atlantic)
8) RPI (Pool C) vs Cortland (SUNYAC)

At SJFC
4) St. John Fisher (Empire 8) vs John Carroll (OAC)
5) St. Lawrence (Pool C) vs Stevens Tech (MAC-Freedom)

At Union
2) Union (Pool C) vs UMass-Boston (Little East)/SUNY-Maritime (Skyline)
7) MIT (NEWMAC) vs Amherst (Pool C)

At Tufts
3) Tufts (NESCAC) vs Norwich (Great Northeast)
6) Bowdoin (Pool C) vs Western New England (CCC)

South

At CNU
1) Christopher Newport (Pool B) vs Southern Va. (USA-South)/Hanover(HCAC)
8) Lynchburg (Pool C) vs Cabrini (Atlantic East)

At Dickinson
4) Dickinson (Centennial) vs Catholic (Landmark)
5) York (MAC-Commonwealth) vs Gettysburg (Pool C)

At Salisbury
2) Salisbury (Pool C) vs Stockton (CSAC)/Dubuque (Midwest)
7) Washington and Lee (ODAC) vs Wesleyan (Pool C)

At Denison
3) Denison (NCAC) vs Sewanee (SAA)/Aurora (NACC)
6) Hope (MIAA) vs Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW)

Pool B (1)
Christopher Newport

Pool C (10)
Salisbury
Union
St. Lawrence
Bowdoin
Lynchburg
Amherst
Gettysburg
RPI
Stevenson
Wesleyan

Don't see how York has to travel in the first round and why would an unranked Denison team get to host? I understand RPI but why would you punish teams for playing a harder schedule and all of the teams that were on both Dickinson and Yorks schedule (5 games) york had better wins against 4 of them/ Without a head to head the schedule should matter and the fact that York only 2 losses were to top-ranked teams while Dickinson highest ranked game was against # 13 Cabrini. That bracket seems like a Murders row of teams in comparison to most of the other brackets. I fully admit that I do not completely understand D3 bracketology, but if it is to be regional shouldn't Stevens be in the south and not Wesleyan, and wasn't York in the north last year?

Great questions. The committee has always moved seeds around to account for travel limits. Denison is the only justifiable host site for those Midwest teams so they jumped York.

I feel like it has to said everyday. But the top 20 rankings do not matter. They are not a criteria. Regionally ranked wins matter.

Lastly schools like York, Cabrini, Stevens, Stevenson have moved to either side of the bracket in previous years. I used Wesleyan because I had trouble fitting them into the north without making too hard of a first round game for a high seed. They were only 363 miles from Salisbury and easily fit into that site.

[SpiritInTheStick]

Giving this a go. Pool C is going to be interesting.

The committee will try to avoid having any teams fly. That means a 500 miles travel limit in the first round. The only teams I have flying are Hanover and Dubuque.

North

At RIT
1) RIT (Liberty) vs Grove City(PAC)/SUNY-Poly (North Atlantic)
8) RPI (Pool C) vs Cortland (SUNYAC)

At SJFC
4) St. John Fisher (Empire 8) vs John Carroll (OAC)
5) St. Lawrence (Pool C) vs Stevens Tech (MAC-Freedom)

At Union
2) Union (Pool C) vs UMass-Boston (Little East)/SUNY-Maritime (Skyline)
7) MIT (NEWMAC) vs Amherst (Pool C)

At Tufts
3) Tufts (NESCAC) vs Norwich (Great Northeast)
6) Bowdoin (Pool C) vs Western New England (CCC)

South

At CNU
1) Christopher Newport (Pool B) vs Southern Va. (USA-South)/Hanover(HCAC)
8) Lynchburg (Pool C) vs Cabrini (Atlantic East)

At Dickinson
4) Dickinson (Centennial) vs Catholic (Landmark)
5) York (MAC-Commonwealth) vs Gettysburg (Pool C)

At Salisbury
2) Salisbury (Pool C) vs Stockton (CSAC)/Dubuque (Midwest)
7) Washington and Lee (ODAC) vs Wesleyan (Pool C)

At Denison
3) Denison (NCAC) vs Sewanee (SAA)/Aurora (NACC)
6) Hope (MIAA) vs Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW)

Pool B (1)
Christopher Newport

Pool C (10)
Salisbury
Union
St. Lawrence
Bowdoin
Lynchburg
Amherst
Gettysburg
RPI
Stevenson
Wesleyan

Don't see how York has to travel in the first round and why would an unranked Denison team get to host? I understand RPI but why would you punish teams for playing a harder schedule and all of the teams that were on both Dickinson and Yorks schedule (5 games) york had better wins against 4 of them/ Without a head to head the schedule should matter and the fact that York only 2 losses were to top-ranked teams while Dickinson highest ranked game was against # 13 Cabrini. That bracket seems like a Murders row of teams in comparison to most of the other brackets. I fully admit that I do not completely understand D3 bracketology, but if it is to be regional shouldn't Stevens be in the south and not Wesleyan, and wasn't York in the north last year?

Location is key to the bracket. You can pretty much ignore the seeding aside from the top few in the north and top two in the south. Also, the committee can move teams from north to south (or south to north) if it helps the structure of the bracket and keeps everyone on a bus ride instead of a flight.

[ah23]

I've long believed Pool B teams should be ineligible for Pool C bids. Would be hysterical if that were the case this year.

Kind of agree with this. Not sure why there aren’t just two groups like in literally every other tournament: conference champs and at-large qualifiers.

[InsiderRoll]

I've long believed Pool B teams should be ineligible for Pool C bids. Would be hysterical if that were the case this year.

Kind of agree with this. Not sure why there aren’t just two groups like in literally every other tournament: conference champs and at-large qualifiers.

So you think Salisbury should be left out of the tournament?

Pool B teams have always been moved to Pool C after pool B was filled. Just in previous years Salisbury and CNU did not qualify as Pool B, now they do. It used to be 3/4 pool B teams, that was a joke. This is the best format the tournament has ever had to get the best teams in.

[JustOneTime]

F&M is currently ahead of Stevenson in the region III rankings so Stevenson would not get the invite at this point.

[ICGrad]

I've long believed Pool B teams should be ineligible for Pool C bids. Would be hysterical if that were the case this year.

Kind of agree with this. Not sure why there aren’t just two groups like in literally every other tournament: conference champs and at-large qualifiers.

So you think Salisbury should be left out of the tournament?

Pool B teams have always been moved to Pool C after pool B was filled. Just in previous years Salisbury and CNU did not qualify as Pool B, now they do. It used to be 3/4 pool B teams, that was a joke. This is the best format the tournament has ever had to get the best teams in.

Pool B has traditionally been for teams who otherwise wouldn't typically qualify for Pool C bids; they were bids set aside for teams not eligible for AQs and who probably weren't going to get an at-large. So Pool B typically subtracted from the number of at-large bids available, typically at the expense of more deserving teams getting bids.

So yeah, I don't think they should be eligible for Pool C bids. I've always believed this (having witnessed more deserving teams lose bids to Pool B teams over the years) and I still do.

That it would be Salisbury this year doesn't change my mind.

[InsiderRoll]

F&M is currently ahead of Stevenson in the region III rankings so Stevenson would not get the invite at this point.

“currently” Stevenson will get another win and SOS boost for playing York again. It will be close there.

[InsiderRoll]

I've long believed Pool B teams should be ineligible for Pool C bids. Would be hysterical if that were the case this year.

Kind of agree with this. Not sure why there aren’t just two groups like in literally every other tournament: conference champs and at-large qualifiers.

So you think Salisbury should be left out of the tournament?

Pool B teams have always been moved to Pool C after pool B was filled. Just in previous years Salisbury and CNU did not qualify as Pool B, now they do. It used to be 3/4 pool B teams, that was a joke. This is the best format the tournament has ever had to get the best teams in.

Pool B has traditionally been for teams who otherwise wouldn't typically qualify for Pool C bids; they were bids set aside for teams not eligible for AQs and who probably weren't going to get an at-large. So Pool B typically subtracted from the number of at-large bids available, typically at the expense of more deserving teams getting bids.

So yeah, I don't think they should be eligible for Pool C bids. I've always believed this (having witnessed more deserving teams lose bids to Pool B teams over the years) and I still do.

That it would be Salisbury this year doesn't change my mind.

Pool B teams never stole pool C slots until this year. There were just more pool B spots. They were always moved to pool C once pool B was filled, however in previous years non of those teams were good enough to get a pool c. The process is how it always has been. I’m not sure you fully understand how it works.

[ICGrad]

I've long believed Pool B teams should be ineligible for Pool C bids. Would be hysterical if that were the case this year.

Kind of agree with this. Not sure why there aren’t just two groups like in literally every other tournament: conference champs and at-large qualifiers.

So you think Salisbury should be left out of the tournament?

Pool B teams have always been moved to Pool C after pool B was filled. Just in previous years Salisbury and CNU did not qualify as Pool B, now they do. It used to be 3/4 pool B teams, that was a joke. This is the best format the tournament has ever had to get the best teams in.

Pool B has traditionally been for teams who otherwise wouldn't typically qualify for Pool C bids; they were bids set aside for teams not eligible for AQs and who probably weren't going to get an at-large. So Pool B typically subtracted from the number of at-large bids available, typically at the expense of more deserving teams getting bids.

So yeah, I don't think they should be eligible for Pool C bids. I've always believed this (having witnessed more deserving teams lose bids to Pool B teams over the years) and I still do.

That it would be Salisbury this year doesn't change my mind.

Pool B teams never stole pool C slots until this year. There were just more pool B spots. They were always moved to pool C once pool B was filled, however in previous years non of those teams were good enough to get a pool c. The process is how it always has been. I’m not sure you fully understand how it works.

The very existence of Poll B "steals" slots from more deserving Pool C teams (at least historically; not this year, obviously). Trust me: On at least two occasions, IC, as one of the last teams out, ended up on the wrong end of the bubble while a less-deserving Pool B team went dancing.

[ah23]

So you think Salisbury should be left out of the tournament?

Of course not. I just think there should only be two groups - AQs and at-large bids - like every other college tournament I’m familiar with. Pool B has always struck me as a very bizarre carveout that has taken up what should be a Pool C spot.

[InsiderRoll]

I certainly understand the frustration behind Pool B. Although this is certainly the least controversial year ever for it.

Should be noted that this system of Pool B then pool C exist in nearly every sport for D3.

[boredatwork]

Giving this a go. Pool C is going to be interesting.

The committee will try to avoid having any teams fly. That means a 500 miles travel limit in the first round. The only teams I have flying are Hanover and Dubuque.

North

At RIT
1) RIT (Liberty) vs Grove City(PAC)/SUNY-Poly (North Atlantic)
8) RPI (Pool C) vs Cortland (SUNYAC)

At SJFC
4) St. John Fisher (Empire 8) vs John Carroll (OAC)
5) St. Lawrence (Pool C) vs Stevens Tech (MAC-Freedom)

At Union
2) Union (Pool C) vs UMass-Boston (Little East)/SUNY-Maritime (Skyline)
7) MIT (NEWMAC) vs Amherst (Pool C)

At Tufts
3) Tufts (NESCAC) vs Norwich (Great Northeast)
6) Bowdoin (Pool C) vs Western New England (CCC)

South

At CNU
1) Christopher Newport (Pool B) vs Southern Va. (USA-South)/Hanover(HCAC)
8) Lynchburg (Pool C) vs Cabrini (Atlantic East)

At Dickinson
4) Dickinson (Centennial) vs Catholic (Landmark)
5) York (MAC-Commonwealth) vs Gettysburg (Pool C)

At Salisbury
2) Salisbury (Pool C) vs Stockton (CSAC)/Dubuque (Midwest)
7) Washington and Lee (ODAC) vs Wesleyan (Pool C)

At Denison
3) Denison (NCAC) vs Sewanee (SAA)/Aurora (NACC)
6) Hope (MIAA) vs Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW)

Pool B (1)
Christopher Newport

Pool C (10)
Salisbury
Union
St. Lawrence
Bowdoin
Lynchburg
Amherst
Gettysburg
RPI
Stevenson
Wesleyan

Don't see how York has to travel in the first round and why would an unranked Denison team get to host? I understand RPI but why would you punish teams for playing a harder schedule and all of the teams that were on both Dickinson and Yorks schedule (5 games) york had better wins against 4 of them/ Without a head to head the schedule should matter and the fact that York only 2 losses were to top-ranked teams while Dickinson highest ranked game was against # 13 Cabrini. That bracket seems like a Murders row of teams in comparison to most of the other brackets. I fully admit that I do not completely understand D3 bracketology, but if it is to be regional shouldn't Stevens be in the south and not Wesleyan, and wasn't York in the north last year?

Location is key to the bracket. You can pretty much ignore the seeding aside from the top few in the north and top two in the south. Also, the committee can move teams from north to south (or south to north) if it helps the structure of the bracket and keeps everyone on a bus ride instead of a flight.

I know it is said that the higher seeds will be hosting, but i can't help but believe they will shift a few things to make it convenient for travel which leads me to think that if Illinois Wesleyan and Hope both win their conference, IWU will host a pod with the likes of Dubuque, Aurora and maybe Colorado College (the unavoidable flight) and Denison would host Hope, Sewanee, and either a Grove City or Baldwin Wallace from the OAC.

I hope it's not the case but i always side on the idea that the NCAA will take whatever results in the least amount of flights vs. keeping the seeding legitimate.

[relaxedfan]

No way Colorado College makes the tournament this year. Why do you think Woods left after making the final 8 last year?

[InsiderRoll]

Giving this a go. Pool C is going to be interesting.

The committee will try to avoid having any teams fly. That means a 500 miles travel limit in the first round. The only teams I have flying are Hanover and Dubuque.

North

At RIT
1) RIT (Liberty) vs Grove City(PAC)/SUNY-Poly (North Atlantic)
8) RPI (Pool C) vs Cortland (SUNYAC)

At SJFC
4) St. John Fisher (Empire 8) vs John Carroll (OAC)
5) St. Lawrence (Pool C) vs Stevens Tech (MAC-Freedom)

At Union
2) Union (Pool C) vs UMass-Boston (Little East)/SUNY-Maritime (Skyline)
7) MIT (NEWMAC) vs Amherst (Pool C)

At Tufts
3) Tufts (NESCAC) vs Norwich (Great Northeast)
6) Bowdoin (Pool C) vs Western New England (CCC)

South

At CNU
1) Christopher Newport (Pool B) vs Southern Va. (USA-South)/Hanover(HCAC)
8) Lynchburg (Pool C) vs Cabrini (Atlantic East)

At Dickinson
4) Dickinson (Centennial) vs Catholic (Landmark)
5) York (MAC-Commonwealth) vs Gettysburg (Pool C)

At Salisbury
2) Salisbury (Pool C) vs Stockton (CSAC)/Dubuque (Midwest)
7) Washington and Lee (ODAC) vs Wesleyan (Pool C)

At Denison
3) Denison (NCAC) vs Sewanee (SAA)/Aurora (NACC)
6) Hope (MIAA) vs Illinois Wesleyan (CCIW)

Pool B (1)
Christopher Newport

Pool C (10)
Salisbury
Union
St. Lawrence
Bowdoin
Lynchburg
Amherst
Gettysburg
RPI
Stevenson
Wesleyan

Don't see how York has to travel in the first round and why would an unranked Denison team get to host? I understand RPI but why would you punish teams for playing a harder schedule and all of the teams that were on both Dickinson and Yorks schedule (5 games) york had better wins against 4 of them/ Without a head to head the schedule should matter and the fact that York only 2 losses were to top-ranked teams while Dickinson highest ranked game was against # 13 Cabrini. That bracket seems like a Murders row of teams in comparison to most of the other brackets. I fully admit that I do not completely understand D3 bracketology, but if it is to be regional shouldn't Stevens be in the south and not Wesleyan, and wasn't York in the north last year?

Location is key to the bracket. You can pretty much ignore the seeding aside from the top few in the north and top two in the south. Also, the committee can move teams from north to south (or south to north) if it helps the structure of the bracket and keeps everyone on a bus ride instead of a flight.

I know it is said that the higher seeds will be hosting, but i can't help but believe they will shift a few things to make it convenient for travel which leads me to think that if Illinois Wesleyan and Hope both win their conference, IWU will host a pod with the likes of Dubuque, Aurora and maybe Colorado College (the unavoidable flight) and Denison would host Hope, Sewanee, and either a Grove City or Baldwin Wallace from the OAC.

I hope it's not the case but i always side on the idea that the NCAA will take whatever results in the least amount of flights vs. keeping the seeding legitimate.

Perhaps, but I’d be shocked if they allow both IWU and Denison to host. Keep in mind the OAC teams and Grove City can easily be pushed to the Rochester area and be hosted by RIT or STFC without flying.