2022 D1 Selection Committee

[DALaxDad]

The cynic in me says that the lax mafia won't give the Ivy League 5 bids regardless of the teams' RPIs. I am afraid that one of the Ivy League semi-final losers is at risk of being dropped for Princeton.

[CU88]

The cynic in me says that the lax mafia won't give the Ivy League 5 bids regardless of the teams' RPIs. I am afraid that one of the Ivy League semi-final losers is at risk of being dropped for Princeton.

Agreed

[Typical Lax Dad]

The cynic in me says that the lax mafia won't give the Ivy League 5 bids regardless of the teams' RPIs. I am afraid that one of the Ivy League semi-final losers is at risk of being dropped for Princeton.

Agreed

I have always felt that if Princeton didn’t make the ILT on tie breakers, one of teams in the tournament wouldn’t make it. I remember in 2015, Princeton was left out of the field because of a head to head loss to Brown despite making it to the ILT final while Brown didn’t. Princeton has head to head wins over Penn and Brown and a higher RPI. We will see how it shakes out this year.

[HopFan16]

Princeton is going to make it. I think that Harvard, however, is cooked

[MoralTerpitude]

Man… Carc is delusional. He just speculated that ND would more likely be a 6 or 7 seed, rather than a 2 or 3.

Anish had to reel him in… “Notre Dame is not going to be seeded.”

It's no surprise given ESPN owns ACCN, and both Anish and Carc are SU guys. 5 or more Ivys in the tournament (vs 1 ACC) isn't good for their business, so...they're talking their book.

Understand the marketing perspective of the issue, and Carc’s obvious biases, but him thinking that ND is going to get seeded shows a mind-boggling ignorance of the selection factors. Even Anish wasn’t going support something so detached from reality.

[jrn19]

Harvard has to hope for like, Duke losing this weekend but then beating ND next. That might cancel out Duke and ND and let them backdoor in. But then they have to hope for no bid steals (albeit it's only the B1G and Big East.)

There's not even a question Princeton is getting in, and they're going to get a Top 4 seed too.

[MoralTerpitude]

The cynic in me says that the lax mafia won't give the Ivy League 5 bids regardless of the teams' RPIs. I am afraid that one of the Ivy League semi-final losers is at risk of being dropped for Princeton.

The ILT’ers and Princeton are top 8 in RPI, and top 10 in QWF. SoS is up there too. Don’t see any of them getting dropped. If Princeton had beat Cornell, or Harvard had held on, I think it would have been four (wrongly or rightly).

I think Harvard, which deserves a slot, will likely get dropped for Ohio State or the winner of Duke/ND. I think it’s fair if it’s OSU, because of a not really close head-to-head.

[socalax]

I'm kind of surprised by the IL taking so much criticism of late. I don't get the RPI argument against the IL - all conferences play a bunch of conference games - and other conferences have certainly benefited most years via their conference play boosting RPI (looking at you ACC)? If anything, the fact that Princeton isn't in the ILT and yet remains 2nd in RPI argues to the strength of the IL this year. I'm not arguing for 5-6 Ivies to be in the tournament, just surprised by the recent backlash. Is there a better metric than RPI that we should be focusing on?

[10stone5]

I'm kind of surprised by the IL taking so much criticism of late. I don't get the RPI argument against the IL - all conferences play a bunch of conference games - and other conferences have certainly benefited most years via their conference play boosting RPI (looking at you ACC)? If anything, the fact that Princeton isn't in the ILT and yet remains 2nd in RPI argues to the strength of the IL this year. I'm not arguing for 5-6 Ivies to be in the tournament, just surprised by the recent backlash. Is there a better metric than RPI that we should be focusing on?

The criticism is rooted in,

in past years, ACC teams took full advantage of RPI and the
NCAA selection criteria to pack At Large selections,
whether deserved or not, whether intentional or not - this included a not meaningful at all year end ACC tournament which did nothing for getting an ACC automatic qualifier, this tournament simply boosted ACC numbers so that it was hard for any other teams to crack that ACC at large armor.

Now that the Ivy teams are taking full advantage, intentional or
not, and will almost certainly be getting 5 teams in,

RPI is a major problem,

my take is the RPI whine is coming mostly from the ESPN
IL lax punditry.

[PicLax]

I think Ivy should - and will - get 6 in, assuming Maryland and Georgetown win their conferences. UVA and 5 Ivys are definite (1 AQ, 4 at large). Final three spots will come will come down to 5 teams - Duke, ND, Rutgers, OSU, Harvard. Winner of Duke/ ND in, loser out. Same for Rutgers/OSU. RPI for losers of those games should fall below Harvard (though Rutgers might be able to weather a loss, but wouldn’t count on it). Final spot to Harvard.

[JustOneTime]

If it comes down to Harvard vs OSU then IMO OSU is in based on head to head.

[wgdsr]

rpi for a league as a whole is not boosted by in conference play. it's boosted by out of conference play.

on the straight rpi #, both duke and rutgers will finish above harvard should they lose.

[Jldlax]

I'm kind of surprised by the IL taking so much criticism of late. I don't get the RPI argument against the IL - all conferences play a bunch of conference games - and other conferences have certainly benefited most years via their conference play boosting RPI (looking at you ACC)? If anything, the fact that Princeton isn't in the ILT and yet remains 2nd in RPI argues to the strength of the IL this year. I'm not arguing for 5-6 Ivies to be in the tournament, just surprised by the recent backlash. Is there a better metric than RPI that we should be focusing on?

The criticism is rooted in,

in past years, ACC teams took full advantage of RPI and the
NCAA selection criteria to pack At Large selections,
whether deserved or not, whether intentional or not - this included a not meaningful at all year end ACC tournament which did nothing for getting an ACC automatic qualifier, this tournament simply boosted ACC numbers so that it was hard for any other teams to crack that ACC at large armor.

Now that the Ivy teams are taking full advantage, intentional or
not, and will almost certainly be getting 5 teams in,

RPI is a major problem,

my take is the RPI whine is coming mostly from the ESPN
IL lax punditry.

I agree with the last paragraph. On the ND-Cuse ESPN broadcast, they were whining that both Duke and ND should get in based upon "the look test", that both have so much talent that they should get in and that the RPI is grossly unfair. It was so bad that I checked the ND record and they have no top level wins. They have top level "good" losses" to MD, GU, etc. I do not know whey they did not play two more games, vs. top 10-15 type teams, as this would have strengthened their schedule. As for Duke, they lost to a Loyola team that simply is not good this year, for whatever reason. GU whacked Loyola and their loss to BU had multiple horrible turnover's and defensive breakdowns. (This is not not to knock Loyola which is a very good program overall, it is just to point out the relative weakness this year).

To a non-biased observer, the logical thought was if Duke and ND are so good, perhaps they underachieved this year. This indeed sounded like lobbying by Disney/ESPN shills. Maybe they just cannot accept that their beloved ACC can have a down year, or that programs like RU and GU may be catching up with the ACC. RU, GU and others have a lot to offer as schools and programs, and given the growth of lacrosse over the past decade +, the days of riding the bench at ACC schools are over. Why pay $70K to sit at Duke, ND or Cuse when you can pay the same and get PT at a GU, or do the same at at lower tuition state school like RU?

[MoralTerpitude]

I think alot of fans are missing the point here. The RPI is not inaccurate or screwed up because so many Ivies are ranked highly. Nor was it so in previous years when ACC teams were all near the top.

The Ivies did really good OOC this year. Take away Dartmouth, and they were 34-7. The ACC had a poor record against the B1G and Ivies, and had very few RPI top-ten wins. Bottom line is the RPI is accurately reflecting conference performance.

[Dip&Dunk]

If anything, the fact that Princeton isn't in the ILT and yet remains 2nd in RPI argues to the strength of the IL this year.

And of course you can just as easily say "If anything, the fact that Princeton isn't in the ILT and yet remains 2nd in RPI argues to the invalidity of the RPI this year."

Whatever happens Sunday, I hope next year (A) ACC adds another team to get an AQ, (B) RPI is adjusted and (C) if RPI is not adjusted then a minimum number of OOC games are mandated. I also anticipate i will get none of the three.

[CU88]

I think alot of fans are missing the point here. The RPI is not inaccurate or screwed up because so many Ivies are ranked highly. Nor was it so in previous years when ACC teams were all near the top.

The Ivies did really good OOC this year. Take away Dartmouth, and they were 34-7. The ACC had a poor record against the B1G and Ivies, and had very few RPI top-ten wins. Bottom line is the RPI is accurately reflecting conference performance.

I have seen several social media posting by the "pundits" that the IL OOC wins are "weaks" as many were by 1 goal...

[QuakerSouth]

So if a one goal win is not considered "legitimate," and an attempt is made to devalue the quality of the one goal winner, then the corresponding one goal loss can't really be considered a "good loss" now, can it?

We've lived through the 5 ACC at-larges for years. Lets see how this shakes out. At this moment, the IL has no beef. We'll know more Sunday night.

The ILT should be a very competitive weekend.

[PicLax]

Question: Do conference tournament games affect RPI? Part of the RPI formula is win / loss record, so I’m wondering if a team entering their conference tournament at 11 and 4 and gets a win, does their RPI go up? Same thing vice-versa: does a loss decrease their RPI?

[CU77]

A conference tournament game counts in the RPI calculation just the same as any other game.

[wgdsr]

So if a one goal win is not considered "legitimate," and an attempt is made to devalue the quality of the one goal winner, then the corresponding one goal loss can't really be considered a "good loss" now, can it?

We've lived through the 5 ACC at-larges for years. Lets see how this shakes out. At this moment, the IL has no beef. We'll know more Sunday night.

The ILT should be a very competitive weekend.

prior to the covid year where the ivy did not play and the b1g played themselves, i'm not sure the acc ever had 5 al larges. i'm fairly sure they didn't. a large part of that is they only had 4 teams forever.