LaxPower Back-Up Stick

courtdog wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:34 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:28 am

courtdog wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:31 am Top Tier (the knowns) - Yale / Penn
Next Tier (shown ability to win) - Brown / Cornell
Question marks (several years of underachieving but have high hopes for future) - Harvard / Princeton
Bottom tier (could be on upswing but not seeing it) - Dartmouth

When was the last time Brown had a winning record?

EDIT: Looked it up. It was 2017 (2020 was a 5 game season 3-2 then). I like their players. Really underrated individually.

Not implying they haven't struggled at times, I just feel like they have been to the Ivy League Tourney more than the others with question marks.

RopeUnit wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:58 pm Great year to see who can really coach in the Ivy league. Plenty of talent top to bottom, so I'd suggest, especially this year, final standings will be determined more by coaching and culture than talent. Short term, Penn/Dartmouth/Brown should start in a better position after being on campus and practicing last year. Who knows if it will make a difference by the time the Ivy season begins.

Best guess:
Some random mess of Yale/Penn/Brown/Princeton/Cornell at 4-2 and 3-3 teams, and a coin flip for the ILT. Everyone likes Yale, but a 6-0 year would surprise me.

If there was a year when Cornell might dip, this might be it. Time off + new HC + no Teat is a tough pill to swallow. No clue what to expect out of Harvard.

VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:58 pm Rope Unit
Cornell will be in the hunt. Not the same expectations as the last two seasons, but they will certainly be in the hunt.
The coaching change is not an issue - Stevens is back as the defensive coordinator and Buczek was, in effect, the offensive coordinator.
Issues will be a) playing without Teat, a generational player who made everyone better and b) a changing of the guard in terms of leadership -- Teat, Donville, Fletcher are all gone.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:08 pm

VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:58 pm Rope Unit
Cornell will be in the hunt. Not the same expectations as the last two seasons, but they will certainly be in the hunt.
The coaching change is not an issue - Stevens is back as the defensive coordinator and Buczek was, in effect, the offensive coordinator.
Issues will be a) playing without Teat, a generational player who made everyone better and b) a changing of the guard in terms of leadership -- Teat, Donville, Fletcher are all gone.

Is Cornell better with a panell or Teat or deeper and broader talent sharing? Serious question because while Seibald was a Tewey I feel like the tambroni big red in the 2000s did better with more evenly distributed game than they have with their two great attackmen of the last decade. I’m sure the coaching turnover hasn’t helped but you can see where the question comes from.

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:00 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:08 pm

VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:58 pm Rope Unit
Cornell will be in the hunt. Not the same expectations as the last two seasons, but they will certainly be in the hunt.
The coaching change is not an issue - Stevens is back as the defensive coordinator and Buczek was, in effect, the offensive coordinator.
Issues will be a) playing without Teat, a generational player who made everyone better and b) a changing of the guard in terms of leadership -- Teat, Donville, Fletcher are all gone.

Is Cornell better with a panell or Teat or deeper and broader talent sharing? Serious question because while Seibald was a Tewey I feel like the tambroni big red in the 2000s did better with more evenly distributed game than they have with their two great attackmen of the last decade. I’m sure the coaching turnover hasn’t helped but you can see where the question comes from.

Not sure I follow that. Didn't Max Siebald and Rob Pannell play on the best Cornell team in the last two decades in 2009? I distinctly remember them on the field in the National championship game vs Syracuse when the last :10 second meltdown cost them the Trophy.

VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:58 pm Rope Unit
Cornell will be in the hunt. Not the same expectations as the last two seasons, but they will certainly be in the hunt.
The coaching change is not an issue - Stevens is back as the defensive coordinator and Buczek was, in effect, the offensive coordinator.
Issues will be a) playing without Teat, a generational player who made everyone better and b) a changing of the guard in terms of leadership -- Teat, Donville, Salvatoare, and Fletcher are all gone.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:19 pm

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:00 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:08 pm

VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:58 pm Rope Unit
Cornell will be in the hunt. Not the same expectations as the last two seasons, but they will certainly be in the hunt.
The coaching change is not an issue - Stevens is back as the defensive coordinator and Buczek was, in effect, the offensive coordinator.
Issues will be a) playing without Teat, a generational player who made everyone better and b) a changing of the guard in terms of leadership -- Teat, Donville, Fletcher are all gone.

Is Cornell better with a panell or Teat or deeper and broader talent sharing? Serious question because while Seibald was a Tewey I feel like the tambroni big red in the 2000s did better with more evenly distributed game than they have with their two great attackmen of the last decade. I’m sure the coaching turnover hasn’t helped but you can see where the question comes from.

Not sure I follow that. Didn't Max Siebald and Rob Pannell play on the best Cornell team in the last two decades in 2009? I distinctly remember them on the field in the National championship game vs Syracuse when the last :10 second meltdown cost them the Trophy.

So then is Tambroni the reason the 2000s were better than the 2010s? It wasn’t just those two there was 4-5 guys. Meanwhile they haven’t won’t a conference title since 2015 and one IL title in 2018 compared with their success in the 2000s when Tierney was still in the conference. Unless someone wants to make the argument the IL was far weaker in the 2000s than now? Before Pannell they were quarters or better every year barely lost to Navy in 2004 in a brutally ugly game (like 5-3 or something). 2007 team w/o pannell might’ve been a better team than 2009 but they got treated like fresh meat in a Max security prison by the NCAA on behalf of Hopkins.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:28 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:19 pm

Henpecked wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:00 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:08 pm

VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:58 pm Rope Unit
Cornell will be in the hunt. Not the same expectations as the last two seasons, but they will certainly be in the hunt.
The coaching change is not an issue - Stevens is back as the defensive coordinator and Buczek was, in effect, the offensive coordinator.
Issues will be a) playing without Teat, a generational player who made everyone better and b) a changing of the guard in terms of leadership -- Teat, Donville, Fletcher are all gone.

Is Cornell better with a panell or Teat or deeper and broader talent sharing? Serious question because while Seibald was a Tewey I feel like the tambroni big red in the 2000s did better with more evenly distributed game than they have with their two great attackmen of the last decade. I’m sure the coaching turnover hasn’t helped but you can see where the question comes from.

Not sure I follow that. Didn't Max Siebald and Rob Pannell play on the best Cornell team in the last two decades in 2009? I distinctly remember them on the field in the National championship game vs Syracuse when the last :10 second meltdown cost them the Trophy.

So then is Tambroni the reason the 2000s were better than the 2010s? It wasn’t just those two there was 4-5 guys. Meanwhile they haven’t won’t a conference title since 2015 and one IL title in 2018 compared with their success in the 2000s when Tierney was still in the conference. Unless someone wants to make the argument the IL was far weaker in the 2000s than now? Before Pannell they were quarters or better every year barely lost to Navy in 2004 in a brutally ugly game (like 5-3 or something). 2007 team w/o pannell might’ve been a better team than 2009 but they got treated like fresh meat in a Max security prison by the NCAA on behalf of Hopkins.

Well, certainly Tamboni had a great run, with lots of great talent. And with Pannell still there, they did well in the early 2010's too.

Once Pannell left, so-so until Teat.
But not yet akin to the 2000's.
And by so-so, very, very good, but beatable any given Saturday.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornell_B ... s_lacrosse

I played against those 70's teams...now that was dominance!
No weakness anywhere on the field, All-Americans everywhere you turned.
Biggest thrill was upsetting them by a goal in 1979, first Ivy to do so in 6 years...

VeryRustyRed wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:52 pm The Big Red were very special under Coach T. FarFromGeneva - you are correct, lots of appearances in the quarters prior to 2007. The game you referenced was a quarterfinal vs. a great Navy team in 2004...played at Schoellkopf on a scorcher of a day. What made the game so memorable is that 2004 was the year that George Boiardi died in an early season game vs. Binghamton. Red "21" shirts were distributed to fans before the game and George's family was present. Navy won 6-5, but I recall that Sean Greenhaul, Cornell's great AA attackman had the ball in the last minute, cradling/working for a good shot inside the restraining line, but never got it off. It was a heartbreaker. Coach T's subsequent years were his best, in particular, the great 2007 team that lost to Duke in the semis by one on a Zach Greer goal with 3 seconds left (this game should have been the final; Cornell received a travesty of a seed), in 2009 (the championship game is not discussed in my household), and in 2010 (losing to Notre Dame in the semis).
The program's fortunes after Coach T left, IMO, were less a function of the Pannell era ending and more a function of Tambroni's successors as HC. Coach DeLuca obviously had very big shoes to fill, but I felt that in time, he was "growing into the mantle" of HC despite problematic recruiting. We won't go into the politics of his departure. The real blow to the program was the naming of Kerwick as head coach. The guy couldn't have won with a roster full of Hall of Famers. An absolute disaster...that was allowed to go on far longer than extant issues at the time dictated. No need for me to elaborate.

faircornell wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:46 pm I'm not sure if any of the thoughts below are unique, but:

1. I'd argue that Yale has the type of competitive advantage that Cornell did in the 70s, between funding, program stability and support from the Administration.

2. I would say, without a doubt, that the Ivies are stronger now than they were in the 2000s. The shortened 2020 season left squads from Brown, Cornell, Penn, Princeton and Yale without the ability to show their strengths.

3. With respect to the Big Red, stability and administrative support are the keys, and were in evidence when the program has been strong. Cornell has a natural recruiting strength in Long Island, Canada and Upstate NY. Periods of weakness have been correlated with the absence of the key attributes noted above.

The Orfling wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:24 am Good questions, Bearfan. I would love to be wrong but I see a few years without an Ivy going deep in the NCAA tournament until the "superteam" phenomenon has subsided after the COVID grad transfer window finally expires. Maybe there will be a small advantage on recruiting end of things with some top recruits liking the certainty of going to a top Ivy program with a roster they can project as opposed to an ACC/BIG10 team which can reload with grad transfers, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it. Many confident young players just assume the "other guy" might have his minutes cut, not them.

FannOLax wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:37 am Waiting for fall ball... and wondering about the Ivy League Tournament (ILT). From inception through 2017, it was hosted by the Ivy regular-season champs. Then, in 2018 and 2019, the ILT was hosted by Columbia, with games played in Columbia's football stadium on the northern tip of Manhattan, NYC. Crowds were decent, but not great (although lots of Ivy alumni live in NYC and its suburbs). There was some promotion of inner-city lacrosse... and was the needle moved toward the Columbia Lions making men's lacrosse a varsity sport? In the ill-fated 2020 season, plans were made to hold the ILT at Hofstra U in Nassau County, Long Island. I was against this idea, mainly because of accessibility (or lack thereof) given Long Island traffic and transportation options; I'm also not convinced the IL should be supporting a non-Ivy lacrosse school. The argument in favor was that Long Island is a hot-bed; I'm not sure whether this was supposed to translate into better attendance, enhanced Ivy recruiting on Long Island, or both. Another possibility is the Big 10 model, where a conference school is named in advance to host the tourney. For example, I could imagine the IL naming Brown to host the 2022 ILT because of the school's new lacrosse facility. Here's looking forward to the next ILT!

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:46 am

FannOLax wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:37 am Waiting for fall ball... and wondering about the Ivy League Tournament (ILT). From inception through 2017, it was hosted by the Ivy regular-season champs. Then, in 2018 and 2019, the ILT was hosted by Columbia, with games played in Columbia's football stadium on the northern tip of Manhattan, NYC. Crowds were decent, but not great (although lots of Ivy alumni live in NYC and its suburbs). There was some promotion of inner-city lacrosse... and was the needle moved toward the Columbia Lions making men's lacrosse a varsity sport? In the ill-fated 2020 season, plans were made to hold the ILT at Hofstra U in Nassau County, Long Island. I was against this idea, mainly because of accessibility (or lack thereof) given Long Island traffic and transportation options; I'm also not convinced the IL should be supporting a non-Ivy lacrosse school. The argument in favor was that Long Island is a hot-bed; I'm not sure whether this was supposed to translate into better attendance, enhanced Ivy recruiting on Long Island, or both. Another possibility is the Big 10 model, where a conference school is named in advance to host the tourney. For example, I could imagine the IL naming Brown to host the 2022 ILT because of the school's new lacrosse facility. Here's looking forward to the next ILT!

The Big Ten model is a good idea.