Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:38 pm
That post-subject was about ND being proactive in poaching committed recruits not about players having freedom to choose or enter transfer portal which all should support.
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Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:30 pm
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:35 pm
right. and in many other sports for a long time, a verbal commit did not end recruiting of that player. often, it just got it started. i'm all for players being offered opportunities up until they actually commit.bananas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:30 pmThat post-subject was about ND being proactive in poaching committed recruits not about players having freedom to choose or enter transfer portal which all should support.
not everyone agrees.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:55 pm
I agree.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:35 pmright. and in many other sports for a long time, a verbal commit did not end recruiting of that player. often, it just got it started. i'm all for players being offered opportunities up until they actually commit.bananas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:30 pmThat post-subject was about ND being proactive in poaching committed recruits not about players having freedom to choose or enter transfer portal which all should support.
not everyone agrees.
Some have a problem with all 'poaching', others like me see a difference between competing for players up until an NLI is signed and the 'poaching' of approaching a player already at another school and encouraging them to transfer...the latter's not at all cool IMO.
Years ago we had long discussions about the pre NLI sort of 'poaching', the approaching of players regardless of any announced 'commitment' on social networks, thereby 'violating' the 'gentlemen's agreement' not to do so. Some of us called BS on the 'gentleman's agreement' aspect when the coaches were recruiting ever earlier down to the 8th grade for pete's sake, and demanding the kid make a decision... I was one of those who early on predicted that the Ivy coaches were going to not be hands off on any player 'verbally committed' prior to their schools even letting them present a kid for academic review. Of course... ER was about getting a head start on schools like the Ivies and academies, etc. Stuff those coaches who were doing so...
And we also pointed out that some of the same coaches were not honoring their own 'commitments' to kids, often with weak excuses about the kid's academic #'s when it really was that they had a 'prettier girl' in their sites... ND's coach was one such coach whose 'commitment' couldn't be relied upon as rock solid.
BTW, saying something like that out loud would get one 'moderated' on the old LP site...IMO sunlight on how coaches deal with kids is the best way for everyone to have a fair shake.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:07 pm
I think a lot of people don't have much of an opinion about it until it happens to someone committed to their favorite team.wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:35 pmright. and in many other sports for a long time, a verbal commit did not end recruiting of that player. often, it just got it started. i'm all for players being offered opportunities up until they actually commit.bananas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:30 pmThat post-subject was about ND being proactive in poaching committed recruits not about players having freedom to choose or enter transfer portal which all should support.
not everyone agrees.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:12 pm
Lacrosse is the only sport that considers this "poaching" all others it's just continued recruiting and if someone changes their mind it's a "flip". I don't know why it is considered negative, usually its for the better for the recruit and it's not like programs are holding a gun to their head. It's the recruits decision to decomit and go somewhere else why do we look down on the programs that are getting these individuals.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:58 pm
It's one thing to flip/poach a kid you actively recruited. When a coach goes after a player who he never looked at, it's poaching with a negative connotation imho. It's like going to a restaurant and taking someone else's order. I get that a player should be able to go wherever they want. Especially if it is an upgrade. I just think it is bad behavior on a coaches part to go after someone they never looked at/cared about, only to go "oh... that guy is good" My 2 cents. Off my soap box now....
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:20 pm
Right now the way recruiting happens, the power is in the coaches hands. I would like to see it more like football
Have kids post their offers, make it more transparent. That puts it more in the players hands and gets more offers out to kids.
Have kids post their offers, make it more transparent. That puts it more in the players hands and gets more offers out to kids.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:46 am
AMEN!!! The posting of offers is more than it used to be, but only seen it from smaller recruits. I know Jacksonville sends out offer graphics that players can post on their social media feeds. Other than that, I don't know of any. As someone who follows football recruiting, would love to see lacrosse get closer to that point. Obviously, will never get to that level just due to the fact of the spot being smaller and almost no scholarship being a full ride, but we can get pretty close to that. Hope more kids follow Spalinna and Petro's lead and announce a top 4 or 5 before committing.
In all, needs to be more of a marketing thing from the kids in trying to build their brand from the recruiting process on and not so much power from the coaches on the recruiting front.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:07 pm
Coaches specifically told my son, don't go sharing this offer and shopping us around. It was a, accept the offer, or we move on. That is what I mean by the power and lack of transparency.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:55 pm
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:09 am
Is that happening at ND? Confused.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:54 pm
Coaches at the non-Ivies have their allotment of 12 scholarships that they strategically budget each year on how to spend on their recruiting targets. They complete recruiting their class, get their commitments. only to have ND come in a year later and take their recruit. Sure, I get the lure of going to ND. It is an outstanding institution. But when a coach has spent countless hours recruiting a player and they get the commitment it is devastating for a year later to have a school flip them. It is totally different when a player goes through the portal.bananas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:30 pmThat post-subject was about ND being proactive in poaching committed recruits not about players having freedom to choose or enter transfer portal which all should support.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:20 am
It's indeed really rough, especially on the second and third tier teams (don't ask me to define that!!harflax wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:54 pmCoaches at the non-Ivies have their allotment of 12 scholarships that they strategically budget each year on how to spend on their recruiting targets. They complete recruiting their class, get their commitments. only to have ND come in a year later and take their recruit. Sure, I get the lure of going to ND. It is an outstanding institution. But when a coach has spent countless hours recruiting a player and they get the commitment it is devastating for a year later to have a school flip them. It is totally different when a player goes through the portal.bananas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:30 pmThat post-subject was about ND being proactive in poaching committed recruits not about players having freedom to choose or enter transfer portal which all should support.
) but it's become par for the course to have this juggling happen as kids mature and get offers they consider 'better' (however they wish to weigh them) from additional schools...If a coach doesn't have an NLI from a prospective player, it's simply not a done deal. Note coaches CAN do that with a player earlier, but they become just as locked in. (Ivies don't do NLI's at all.)So, coaches are constantly thinking about how they can improve their roster and how they'll react if they lose a player, for whatever reason, whether a current player or an incoming one.
The only good news on all this is that moving the commitment schedule back to sept of junior year has reduced the number of years of changes in how recruits are perceived.
However, some coaches are much more aggressive on all this, not simply reactive to the need or opening caused by losing a player. I think that's where there may be some viable critique of ND, that there's been a willingness to swap out kids who thought they were committed for the 'prettier girl' who just appeared...actually looking for those...
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:50 am
Are you saying ND is dropping kids to take flips? If so where are you hearing this. Because thats not what I hear. Sounds like they are rounding classes out with these flips?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:20 amIt's indeed really rough, especially on the second and third tier teams (don't ask me to define that!!harflax wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:54 pmCoaches at the non-Ivies have their allotment of 12 scholarships that they strategically budget each year on how to spend on their recruiting targets. They complete recruiting their class, get their commitments. only to have ND come in a year later and take their recruit. Sure, I get the lure of going to ND. It is an outstanding institution. But when a coach has spent countless hours recruiting a player and they get the commitment it is devastating for a year later to have a school flip them. It is totally different when a player goes through the portal.bananas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:30 pmThat post-subject was about ND being proactive in poaching committed recruits not about players having freedom to choose or enter transfer portal which all should support.
So, coaches are constantly thinking about how they can improve their roster and how they'll react if they lose a player, for whatever reason, whether a current player or an incoming one.
The only good news on all this is that moving the commitment schedule back to sept of junior year has reduced the number of years of changes in how recruits are perceived.
However, some coaches are much more aggressive on all this, not simply reactive to the need or opening caused by losing a player. I think that's where there may be some viable critique of ND, that there's been a willingness to swap out kids who thought they were committed for the 'prettier girl' who just appeared...actually looking for those...
Will Jake Coan finish his career at ND and complete the cycle.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:58 am
ND is gonna win it all this year!
Well, at least hope springs eternal.
Well, at least hope springs eternal.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:02 am
That's great, but kids should shop it all.
The only way to combat shadiness is with shadiness.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 11:05 am
I've posted a specific story a few different times, no sense doing it in as much detail again. The excuse was supposedly about academic #'s, but there'd been no less achievement than expected, he continued to get good #'s from a very strong academic HS... just another player became available who was higher rated. The player found another home and was a 4 year starter there, but ND had been his dream school. The player who came to ND had a very nice career as well. My understanding is that the player became available to ND when his Ivy admissions process became full of friction...That was several years ago, everyone graduated now I believe.HealthyDebate wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:50 amAre you saying ND is dropping kids to take flips? If so where are you hearing this. Because thats not what I hear. Sounds like they are rounding classes out with these flips?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:20 amIt's indeed really rough, especially on the second and third tier teams (don't ask me to define that!!harflax wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:54 pmCoaches at the non-Ivies have their allotment of 12 scholarships that they strategically budget each year on how to spend on their recruiting targets. They complete recruiting their class, get their commitments. only to have ND come in a year later and take their recruit. Sure, I get the lure of going to ND. It is an outstanding institution. But when a coach has spent countless hours recruiting a player and they get the commitment it is devastating for a year later to have a school flip them. It is totally different when a player goes through the portal.bananas wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 6:30 pmThat post-subject was about ND being proactive in poaching committed recruits not about players having freedom to choose or enter transfer portal which all should support.
So, coaches are constantly thinking about how they can improve their roster and how they'll react if they lose a player, for whatever reason, whether a current player or an incoming one.
The only good news on all this is that moving the commitment schedule back to sept of junior year has reduced the number of years of changes in how recruits are perceived.
However, some coaches are much more aggressive on all this, not simply reactive to the need or opening caused by losing a player. I think that's where there may be some viable critique of ND, that there's been a willingness to swap out kids who thought they were committed for the 'prettier girl' who just appeared...actually looking for those...
Will Jake Coan finish his career at ND and complete the cycle.
But no, I have no insight into this year's shuffling.
As I think I've said, I think everything's fair game up until an NLI.
However, that means for a kid that it's also a buyer beware situation...if you think that 'love' you're hearing from a coach means anything more than I want you (until I see a prettier girl) you may well be fooling yourself. And that's likely to be more the case with coaches known to be aggressive in their recruitment practices and who have the pull to make those last year swaps for the "prettier girl". So, buyer beware. On both sides.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:03 pm
The problem with lacrosse is we put too much into the commitment and nothing into the actual signing which is a$$ backwards compared to all the other NCAA sports.
Whats ESPN's biggest day in recruiting coverage for football and basketball... signing day.
What's IL's for lacrosse... Sept. 1st
Why? Who cares who's getting called at 12:01am and why do we have these kids staying up talking to coaches. How are these kids making commitments on the 1st without having any supposed contact prior to that and why do we think this 16 yo kid is going to keep this commitment not knowing what all his options are and what mat become available to them between then and signing day which is over a year away.
Lacrosse continues to move more into the spotlight and as we do this we will become more aligned with the other sports. These coaches in the ACC, Ivy, Big10, some CAA and Patriot and making $100,000s and some in the $200,000s and their job is to win. They're going to recruit a kid until he signs an NLI period. Do you think Saban cares if a kid committed to Oklahoma St as a JR, no if he is going to make the Tide better he is going to recruit him even if he didn't see him until after his commitment.
We got to get over this over value of the commitment and make more of a priority of the signing.
Whats ESPN's biggest day in recruiting coverage for football and basketball... signing day.
What's IL's for lacrosse... Sept. 1st
Why? Who cares who's getting called at 12:01am and why do we have these kids staying up talking to coaches. How are these kids making commitments on the 1st without having any supposed contact prior to that and why do we think this 16 yo kid is going to keep this commitment not knowing what all his options are and what mat become available to them between then and signing day which is over a year away.
Lacrosse continues to move more into the spotlight and as we do this we will become more aligned with the other sports. These coaches in the ACC, Ivy, Big10, some CAA and Patriot and making $100,000s and some in the $200,000s and their job is to win. They're going to recruit a kid until he signs an NLI period. Do you think Saban cares if a kid committed to Oklahoma St as a JR, no if he is going to make the Tide better he is going to recruit him even if he didn't see him until after his commitment.
We got to get over this over value of the commitment and make more of a priority of the signing.
Re: Notre Dame 2021
Posted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:15 am