Next Big D1

[laxxygilmore]

Ideally, American University would be perfect. They are already a Patriot League school, the girls programs (8) out number the boys (6) by two, and the girls already compete in the PL with lacrosse. Should be quite easy to get going.

Plus it would help bust up the 9 team Mens Patriot League Log jam and handcuffing them with so many conference games, it limits their OOC opportunities. Another PL team would make 10 and they could break it into a North/South bracket with some x-overs on a rolling schedule.

+ 1. I believe you and old salt suggested that a few years back for the PL and it’s still an excellent idea

[Makeit8Lax]

Columbia.
https://www.makeit8.com/

[Benthere]

BC. Had it lost it. ACC. Now with hockey rival BU pushing forward and BC's ladies team is very strong. A natural.Title 9 the killer?

[hooligan88]

The Big 12 is in talks. Texas and West Virginia are leading the charge. They seem to be having trouble convincing the other Big 12 schools its a good ideal. I hope they do. WVU already has a smaller campus with a varsity lax team. fingers crossed.

[palaxoff]

Not to crush anyone's dreams, the scary clown sitting in the corner is called Title 9. Any Big University with a BSC Football team is not going to be able to offset a shoestring $250,000 men's lacrosse budget let alone a full funded one. There is a reason there are 125 more women's soccer team and 250 more women's volleyball teams in D1 then men. Offsets. Also no Ad in his or her right mind is going upset the cash cow. Love to hear the AD float the idea of a lacrosse team to Nick.

[LaxManiax]

The Big 12 is in talks. Texas and West Virginia are leading the charge. They seem to be having trouble convincing the other Big 12 schools its a good ideal. I hope they do. WVU already has a smaller campus with a varsity lax team. fingers crossed.

WVU has a varsity lax team....They are a decent club program with a long history but far from varsity.

I don't think the Big 12 is adding a new sport anytime soon. They are waiting to see what the next big football realignment will be. After the next realignment there may not be a Big 12. Pac 12, SEC, ACC, and Big 10 are going to all pick apart the Big 12. AAC will grab the leftovers.

I wouldn't could on Big 12 adding lacrosse. Pac 12 is more likely.

Don't count out SMU though. They have an extremely nice facility built for men's and women's lacrosse.

[youthathletics]

Love to hear the AD float the idea of a lacrosse team to Nick.

If Nick sent his top 30 into a lacrosse Spring training team for each of the 2-4 years on campus....good lawdy, the bull dodge would turn into the 911- dodge, as that number would be on speed dial each game for the oppositions players. Let's hope he never does that.

[wgdsr]

Not to crush anyone's dreams, the scary clown sitting in the corner is called Title 9. Any Big University with a BSC Football team is not going to be able to offset a shoestring $250,000 men's lacrosse budget let alone a full funded one. There is a reason there are 125 more women's soccer team and 250 more women's volleyball teams in D1 then men. Offsets. Also no Ad in his or her right mind is going upset the cash cow. Love to hear the AD float the idea of a lacrosse team to Nick.

by adding those women's teams over the years, in many cases they have satisfied title 9. p5 athletic programs bring in twice the amount of revenue they were 7 years ago. it'll be 50% higher in 7 years, likely. adding a couple small money sports has much less to do with money (though they'd prefer to spend it on a defensive backs coach) than it does with not wanting to devote time and energy when they can focus on saturdays, cocktail parties and the spring game. athletic departments get a new, larger checkbook to write to themselves every year right now.

the clown in the corner isn't scary... it's an ad's excuse, that everyone buys, not to pull the trigger.

[hooligan88]

The Big 12 is in talks. Texas and West Virginia are leading the charge. They seem to be having trouble convincing the other Big 12 schools its a good ideal. I hope they do. WVU already has a smaller campus with a varsity lax team. fingers crossed.

WVU has a varsity lax team....They are a decent club program with a long history but far from varsity.

I don't think the Big 12 is adding a new sport anytime soon. They are waiting to see what the next big football realignment will be. After the next realignment there may not be a Big 12. Pac 12, SEC, ACC, and Big 10 are going to all pick apart the Big 12. AAC will grab the leftovers.

I wouldn't could on Big 12 adding lacrosse. Pac 12 is more likely.

Don't count out SMU though. They have an extremely nice facility built for men's and women's lacrosse.

WVU has a club team. WVU-Potomac State College has a Varsity team with scholarships. They play in the NJCAA.

The Big 12 proposal is for both Men's and Women's so that would take care of the Title IV. Adding others sports is not dependent on football realignment. It is a separate yet important issue. But U Texas has so much money in endowments they are trying to figure out a way to spend it. Plus they wanted more programming for the Longhorn Network. This is all in the talking stages for the Big 12.

[runrussellrun]

Not to crush anyone's dreams, the scary clown sitting in the corner is called Title 9. Any Big University with a BSC Football team is not going to be able to offset a shoestring $250,000 men's lacrosse budget let alone a full funded one. There is a reason there are 125 more women's soccer team and 250 more women's volleyball teams in D1 then men. Offsets. Also no Ad in his or her right mind is going upset the cash cow. Love to hear the AD float the idea of a lacrosse team to Nick.

NO.....NO and NO.

ONce again, I challenge anyone to find a lawsuit, from US entities, whose scope is ADDING a program. It doesn't exist.

Also, again, the trident of "rules" regarding making "efforts" to level the playing field are vague, and allow the University years to attempt the leveling.

Prove me wrong.

The clown isn't scary at all. IT's a myth. Boston College is a glorified nite school anyway.

[palaxoff]

runrussellrun :

I don't know about lawsuits stopping a program from starting a new team. I highly doubt that is a thing anymore. This might just be my perceptive having been in school and played in early 80s at the advent of Title 9, but I believe the number of men's programs cut was over 300. I knew guys who were just put out on the street like it was nothing just so schools could get compliant.

What I haven't seen at D1 since the 90's is any real growth in the number of men's teams competing at D1, lacrosse volleyball and wrestling are prime examples. Interestingly at D3 it is the opposite because of Title 9, former all women's schools are adding men's sports because they have gone Co Ed or schools need to balance the student body and to get men they added sports.

While the validity of Title 9 and being compliant might not be as pressing as it was, in the college admin world it is still a thing and it might just be an automatic response. It is an obstacle that needs to be dealt with first before anything else when starting a program.

Even today where most colleges are 60/40 women to men, there is still confusion about Title 9.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidberri ... 34182f297a

[Wheels]

Any D1 school (or 1-AA school) that has football will make adding lacrosse more difficult than a school without football. Football costs so much at those levels that adding any new sport, lacrosse or not, is more of a challenge just from a cost perspective. Not saying that schools with football can't add lacrosse (Utah and Michigan did), just saying that the finances of football make it more difficult.

[wgdsr]

football at the big powerhouses brings in the money that pays for all the sports. the cost is irrelevant. they don't have shareholders. they don't need to make a profit, they need to spend it.
as their revenue (tied to football) goes from 50 to 100 million (or pick numbers), they are going to spend every dollar they can. that doesn't mean football is too costly for other sports to come in, it means they want to spend all the dough they can on football. hoops, too if they can. so they can bring in theoretically more money next year.

at a mid-level school, where teevee contracts and 60-100k fans aren't the norm, or anywhere close to it, then it can be more problematic.

[Surfs_Up]

If the money must be spent it seems crazy that big time programs with excess cash don’t have lacrosse.

Stanford
Texas
Texas A&M

Just to name a few

[Laxter]

UCONN after they eliminate football.

[Homer]

If the money must be spent it seems crazy that big time programs with excess cash don’t have lacrosse.

Stanford
Texas
Texas A&M

It's not really that crazy. I think if you've mostly lived in the Northeast, or been associated with schools that rank higher in Forbes than in the CFP standings (not saying this is you, just generally), you may not quite grasp just how vastly more visible and central college football is in a place like Texas. Even marginal differences in football success are going to mean far more to the university's financial position and public standing than anything they could ever accomplish in a low-visibility sport like lacrosse.

Ole Miss would reap more in extra revenue and brand equity from one additional SEC West win per season than they would from winning a national title in men's lacrosse. So of course it makes sense to reinvest what football brings in back into the football arms race -- because if they don't their peers will. In which case hello Poulan WeedEater Independence Bowl. This is what wgdsr is trying to explain.

Football does throw off revenue for the rest of the athletic department, of course. But any of these departments is going to be full of highly demanding coaches and stakeholders who are convinced any extra resources need to go to upgrading their program (softball, track, tennis, etc). As an AD your second biggest headache is keeping all these pre-existing constituencies fed and happy and, preferably, winning conference and national titles. Who wants to make things harder on themselves by adding another sport that you probably won't even be good at, at least not right away?

[wgdsr]

^^^
this.

take a look at the number of sports the power guys sponsor. forget about lacrosse. the sec doesn't even sponsor soccer. or wrestling. or anything. football, basketball, baseball, track, and a couple guys on the golf and tennis teams. sometimes swimming. they bring in hundreds of millions of dollars in many cases. texas and texas a&m are in that category, and they're the same. it's comical. a&m has 47,000 students. dartmouth has 50% more male athletes.

there are some b1g schools, a football conference, that takes a different approach to their athletic department. and some in the pac12, notably stanford -- big on olympic sports. it's not surprising given the proximity (not 3,000 miles away) and academic standing of the b1g that they have a lax conference. and it's not surprising that the pac doesn't as of yet, with the paucity of college teams out west. with the explosion of california high schools in the last 10-15 years (maybe 2nd now to ny), it'll take just somebody pulling the trigger, probably. then maybe you get mid-tiers like pepperdine and gonzaga, etc. florida,too -- they've got 100s of schools going in the last decade plus, and they'll probably get more competitive in the next ten. lots of ex-players have headed that way to coach.

all it takes is an athletic department to want to. but that's a big ask given where the bread is buttered and the extra legwork involved.

[Cooter]

One sometimes thinks of Northwestern in the Big Ten with their success on the Women's side. The smallest school in the Big Ten though.

Indiana U. would be in the next state west of Ohio, which would keep it relatively close to Michigan and OSU, and not too far off from Bellarmine, Cleveland State, Marquette, Detroit, Notre Dame. So travel would not be the problem for them that it is for U Minnesota.

[FannOLax]

One sometimes thinks of Northwestern in the Big Ten with their success on the Women's side. The smallest school in the Big Ten though.

Indiana U. would be in the next state west of Ohio, which would keep it relatively close to Michigan and OSU, and not too far off from Bellarmine, Cleveland State, Marquette, Detroit, Notre Dame. So travel would not be the problem for them that it is for U Minnesota.

Speaking of Indiana and the Big Ten, Purdue is closer to Notre Dame than Indiana U is. I wonder if the fact that a school had men's lax and dropped it would make it more or less likely for that school to add lacrosse; back in the day when Michigan State had a team, I attended several Spartans road games.

[Typical Lax Dad]

One sometimes thinks of Northwestern in the Big Ten with their success on the Women's side. The smallest school in the Big Ten though.

Indiana U. would be in the next state west of Ohio, which would keep it relatively close to Michigan and OSU, and not too far off from Bellarmine, Cleveland State, Marquette, Detroit, Notre Dame. So travel would not be the problem for them that it is for U Minnesota.

Speaking of Indiana and the Big Ten, Purdue is closer to Notre Dame than Indiana U is. I wonder if the fact that a school had men's lax and dropped it would make it more or less likely for that school to add lacrosse; back in the day when Michigan State had a team, I attended several Spartans road games.

Yep! My first college home game was against MSU....had the wind knocked out of me... Trainer comes out and says.....”welcome to college lacrosse”