LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 9:55 am**

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 9:10 am
Hawkeye wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 8:39 am
thatsmell wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 8:02 am
There was talk last year that Reeves got the award because he was a Senior and Spencer “had another year.”

If Spencer doesn’t win, the award loses all credibility. He’s a generational player like the Gaits, Grant Jr. etc.
If they want to make it a career accomplishment award and typically give it to the best senior; that's fine. If they want to make it an award for the best player that single season, regardless of their class; that's also fine. But be consistent.
Agreed...and can make the case about who won it last year if it is based on body of work. I believe Baptiste got the short end of the stick last year. his career "Pioneer(ed)" the era of FOGO's in men's lacrosse, even to a national championship. I think the committee handcuffed themselves by not selecting him last year. Which begs the question....how in the heck can they now pick TD?

TD significantly impacts outcomes but he was likely behind Spencer ,Ament and Sowers before UPenn game. Both he and Baptiste are historical fogos but he had to be infallible to win the Tewaaraton against those three. imo Reeves was clear choice last year from every angle

Princeton middling ways hurts Sowers despite his wondrous stats and play.

Ament and PSU having tremendous year but Spencer being bestowed for both current and career play would be a very worthy choice

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 9:58 am**

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 9:49 am There are actually quite a number of T Award winners who never won a NC.
Thompsons, Baum, Pannell, Seibald come to mind off the top of my head.

Dylan Molloy, who won it is a junior in 2016.

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 10:17 am**

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2019 11:47 pm No brainer on this one.

Spencer’s body of work the previous 3 years AND this season has been ridiculous. Hands down the best. To not give him a tewy would be a crime.

Totally agree with u kramerica. Over the past 9 years the number of winners whose team won the Championship is 4 versus the winners whose team did not win the Championship at 5. Look at the Thompsons, and how much they brought to the table in helping to grow the game and represent what it means to be a Tewaaraton recipient. Not only once, but twice the award went to Lyle and his team did not win the Championship either year. Just sayin

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 10:20 am**

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 9:53 am
Grant Jr had a stunning senior year. The difference between his Delaware squad and this version of Loyola is Loyola has legitimate talent all over the field. Grant seemed to have to carry his team.

Grant won because no one had ever seen a player like Grant up until then, and I’m including the Gaits. Grant played straight up attack. There was nobody close to Grant that year. Course he was older than the other kids. Yale’s Shay was the one that got Grant to UDel, he was going to go straight to the NLL from Jr A. Still, if you want to see how good Grant was, I believe its the 1998 World Cup that’s archived, they didn’t win the Gold but the O went through Grant. And especially also, the 2006 World Cup, Grant and Gait were unreal - like Gretzky and Lemieux in the Canada Cup. Too bad Grant only played two DI years.

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 11:13 am**

Since this is the best attackman award with a few exceptions where offensive middies have won, to me it comes down to Ament and Spencer. Both have had great years, and I believe it is about this year not your four year body of work.

Ament 23 goals 78 assists 101 points
Spencer 40 goals 54 assists 94 points

You can make a strong case for both, but for me I think it's Ament, he makes everyone around him better. He is the reason Penn State is where they are today, set NCAA single season assist record. I think he should win it.

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 11:26 am**

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 8:55 am
thatsmell wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 8:02 am
TheBigIguana wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 12:36 am Leaving Gray off is inexcusable. Ierlan winning over Ament or Spencer would be ridiculous. The women's award is permanently tainted by Ohlmiller never winning. Hopefully the men's award can make smart decisions so that doesn't happen.
There was talk last year that Reeves got the award because he was a Senior and Spencer “had another year.”

If Spencer doesn’t win, the award loses all credibility. He’s a generational player like the Gaits, Grant Jr. etc.

The Gaits took their teams to National Championships. Generational players are more than stats, they elevate whole teams around them, often to the 'Ship.

I'm a huge Pat Spencer fan and believe he is indeed the #1 player in the country talent-wise, but his last five games have been uninspiring (the in-season Army game could be the exception if you want to say so, but even that game was not 'Spencer-like'). I've seen each one. He dumps the ball off as fast as he touches it. My belief is he is hurt, and Toomey isn't advertising it, using Pat to draw more defenders than necessary.

As important to Loyola is their keeper, Stover, who has played consistently great all year with no letups. So, let me end by saying this: the Hounds next year could in theory be better than this year, with one exception: goalie. I believe they will actually flourish even more on offense with the returning nucleus plus a few great recruits.

I love Spencer like any Hounds fan, but this post-season decides who gets the award, and for Spencer, he has to at least get his team into the Final Four. Without that, I do not think he is the Teewy winner this year, I think Ament is, because you have to assume PSU gets to the Final Four, not Loyola.

Peter wouldn’t the attack possibly not be as potent for next year given that we might likely not have a quarterback who runs the offense? I don’t really see olmstead or Scanlan as a replacement in my very limited opinion

But I digress. Tewey is meant to be a season based award and not a career based award, but to not give Spencer the award after 3 solidified spectacular years and this last shining season (for now until we find out tomorrow’s results) would give the committee a bad look

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 11:44 am**

houndace1 wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:26 am
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 8:55 am
thatsmell wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 8:02 am
TheBigIguana wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 12:36 am Leaving Gray off is inexcusable. Ierlan winning over Ament or Spencer would be ridiculous. The women's award is permanently tainted by Ohlmiller never winning. Hopefully the men's award can make smart decisions so that doesn't happen.
There was talk last year that Reeves got the award because he was a Senior and Spencer “had another year.”

If Spencer doesn’t win, the award loses all credibility. He’s a generational player like the Gaits, Grant Jr. etc.

The Gaits took their teams to National Championships. Generational players are more than stats, they elevate whole teams around them, often to the 'Ship.

I'm a huge Pat Spencer fan and believe he is indeed the #1 player in the country talent-wise, but his last five games have been uninspiring (the in-season Army game could be the exception if you want to say so, but even that game was not 'Spencer-like'). I've seen each one. He dumps the ball off as fast as he touches it. My belief is he is hurt, and Toomey isn't advertising it, using Pat to draw more defenders than necessary.

As important to Loyola is their keeper, Stover, who has played consistently great all year with no letups. So, let me end by saying this: the Hounds next year could in theory be better than this year, with one exception: goalie. I believe they will actually flourish even more on offense with the returning nucleus plus a few great recruits.

I love Spencer like any Hounds fan, but this post-season decides who gets the award, and for Spencer, he has to at least get his team into the Final Four. Without that, I do not think he is the Teewy winner this year, I think Ament is, because you have to assume PSU gets to the Final Four, not Loyola.
Peter wouldn’t the attack possibly not be as potent for next year given that we might likely not have a quarterback who runs the offense? I don’t really see olmstead or Scanlan as a replacement in my very limited opinion

But I digress. Tewey is meant to be a season based award and not a career based award, but to not give Spencer the award after 3 solidified spectacular years and this last shining season (for now until we find out tomorrow’s results) would give the committee a bad look

On the Tewey, either Ament or Spencer is a great and deserving recipient. I feel like it will come down to whoever advances to the FF. If Loyola does, this is a no-brainer. If PSU does and Ament scores a ton, I actually think he'll get it.

On next year's Hounds, our middies, FOGO, Defense, and attack are going to be absolutely stellar. Only goalie is a question mark and it's a big one. But, our team looks really solid at the key positions outside that. And no pressure, but if that young fellow in Charlottesville who has hinted of transferring out of UVA decides to bring his talents to the RAC, watch out for the Hounds...immediate top-5 team.

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 11:51 am**

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:44 am
On next year's Hounds, our middies, FOGO, Defense, and attack are going to be absolutely stellar. Only goalie is a question mark and it's a big one. But, our team looks really solid at the key positions outside that. And no pressure, but if that young fellow in Charlottesville who has hinted of transferring out of UVA decides to bring his talents to the RAC, watch out for the Hounds...immediate top-5 team.

Sounds like Loyola has found a DocB.

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 12:12 pm**

Just for perspective:

NAME --- TEAM --- YEARS --- GAMES --- GOALS --- ASSISTS --- POINTS

1. Lyle Thompson Albany 2012–15 70 175 225 400
2. Connor Fields Albany 2015–18 69 199 165 364
3. Pat Spencer Loyola 2016-now 66 140 220 360
4. Rob Pannell Cornell 2009–13 72 150 204 354
5. Matt Danowski Duke 2004–08 80 170 183 353 *5th Year
6. Zack Greer Duke / Bryant 2005–08 / 2009 82 248 105 353 * 5th year
7. Justin Guterding Duke 2015–18 76 212 139 351
8. Joe Vasta Air Force 1983–86 56 173 170 343
9. Tim Nelson NC St. / Syracuse 1982 / 1983–85 57 99 221 320
10. Dylan Molloy Brown 2014–17 63 197 121 318
Darren Lowe Brown 1989–92 61 111 205 316
Ben Reeves (lacrosse) Yale 2015-18 67 174 142 316
Chris Cameron Lehigh 1986–89 55 122 186 308 *NCAA records recognize 307 pts
Mike Powell Syracuse 2001–04 66 150 157 307
Tony Asterino Siena 1978–81 47 168 136 304
Jordan Wolf Duke 2011–14 81 184 120 304
Mike French Cornell 1974–76 47 191 105 296
Miles Thompson Albany 2011–14 61 190 105 295
Casey Powell Syracuse 1995–98 58 158 129 287
Ryan Powell Syracuse 1997–00 61 137 150 287
Scott Montgomery Vermont 1983–86 54 78 205 283
Tim O’Hara Syracuse 1977–80 56 124 158 282
Stan Cockerton North Carolina St. 1977–80 44 193 87 280
Jeff Spooner Massachusetts 1974–77 53 134 141 275
Randy Colley Notre Dame 1992–95 55 173 100 273
Brian LaMastro Hartford 1999–02 61 140 129 269
Steele Stanwick Virginia 2009–12 69 126 143 269
John Zulberti Syracuse 1986–89 60 109 158 267
Jim McAleavey Massachusetts 1988–91 57 95 171 266
Connor Cannizzaro Maryland / Denver 2014 / 2015–17 69 171 88 259
Tom Marechek Syracuse 1989–92 58 182 76 258
Matt Rambo Maryland 2014–17 75 155 102 257
Eamon McEneaney Cornell 1975–77 46 92 164 256
Wesley Berg Denver 2012–15 73 188 67 255
Kieran McArdle Saint John's 2011–14 56 125 129 254
Gary Gait Syracuse 1987–90 56 192 61 253
Anthony DiMarzo Delaware 1992-95 58 98 153 251
Michael Sowers Princeton 2017- 45 105 146 251[/list]

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 5:04 pm**

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 11:44 am
On next year's Hounds, our middies, FOGO, Defense, and attack are going to be absolutely stellar. Only goalie is a question mark and it's a big one. But, our team looks really solid at the key positions outside that. And no pressure, but if that young fellow in Charlottesville who has hinted of transferring out of UVA decides to bring his talents to the RAC, watch out for the Hounds...immediate top-5 team.

This is one of the hotter takes Ive seen on here..

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 5:20 pm**

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 12:12 pm Just for perspective:

NAME --- TEAM --- YEARS --- GAMES --- GOALS --- ASSISTS --- POINTS

1. Lyle Thompson Albany 2012–15 70 175 225 400
2. Connor Fields Albany 2015–18 69 199 165 364
3. Pat Spencer Loyola 2016-now 66 140 220 360
4. Rob Pannell Cornell 2009–13 72 150 204 354
5. Matt Danowski Duke 2004–08 80 170 183 353 *5th Year
6. Zack Greer Duke / Bryant 2005–08 / 2009 82 248 105 353 * 5th year
7. Justin Guterding Duke 2015–18 76 212 139 351
8. Joe Vasta Air Force 1983–86 56 173 170 343
9. Tim Nelson NC St. / Syracuse 1982 / 1983–85 57 99 221 320
10. Dylan Molloy Brown 2014–17 63 197 121 318
Darren Lowe Brown 1989–92 61 111 205 316
Ben Reeves (lacrosse) Yale 2015-18 67 174 142 316
Chris Cameron Lehigh 1986–89 55 122 186 308 *NCAA records recognize 307 pts
Mike Powell Syracuse 2001–04 66 150 157 307
Tony Asterino Siena 1978–81 47 168 136 304
Jordan Wolf Duke 2011–14 81 184 120 304
Mike French Cornell 1974–76 47 191 105 296
Miles Thompson Albany 2011–14 61 190 105 295
Casey Powell Syracuse 1995–98 58 158 129 287
Ryan Powell Syracuse 1997–00 61 137 150 287
Scott Montgomery Vermont 1983–86 54 78 205 283
Tim O’Hara Syracuse 1977–80 56 124 158 282
Stan Cockerton North Carolina St. 1977–80 44 193 87 280
Jeff Spooner Massachusetts 1974–77 53 134 141 275
Randy Colley Notre Dame 1992–95 55 173 100 273
Brian LaMastro Hartford 1999–02 61 140 129 269
Steele Stanwick Virginia 2009–12 69 126 143 269
John Zulberti Syracuse 1986–89 60 109 158 267
Jim McAleavey Massachusetts 1988–91 57 95 171 266
Connor Cannizzaro Maryland / Denver 2014 / 2015–17 69 171 88 259
Tom Marechek Syracuse 1989–92 58 182 76 258
Matt Rambo Maryland 2014–17 75 155 102 257
Eamon McEneaney Cornell 1975–77 46 92 164 256
Wesley Berg Denver 2012–15 73 188 67 255
Kieran McArdle Saint John's 2011–14 56 125 129 254
Gary Gait Syracuse 1987–90 56 192 61 253
Anthony DiMarzo Delaware 1992-95 58 98 153 251
Michael Sowers Princeton 2017- 45 105 146 251[/list]

Chris Gray has far more points than Lyle Thompson at the same stage, i.e. after sophomore year.

Posted: **Fri May 10, 2019 6:19 pm**

FannOLax wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 9:58 am
DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2019 9:49 am There are actually quite a number of T Award winners who never won a NC.
Thompsons, Baum, Pannell, Seibald come to mind off the top of my head.
Dylan Molloy, who won it is a junior in 2016.

What about the first, Doug Shanahan from Hofstra?

Posted: **Sat May 11, 2019 8:23 am**

The first winner was a F/O guy but he was also a middie. Hofstra

Posted: **Sat May 11, 2019 2:31 pm**

With 3 and 6 today, Spencer surely made a statement and looks like he carried the team in the comeback.

Posted: **Sat May 11, 2019 3:39 pm**

No matter what happens next week with Spencer vs. Ament or whose team advances further...I think Spencer should win it. He's the best player in the game. No disrespect to Ament who is an incredible player but I just think Spencer's impact on the game is a little bigger. Penn State's offense at this point is a well-oiled machine and they've got plenty of guys around Ament. Don't get me wrong, he makes those guys better just like Spencer does for his teammates but to me you could take Ament out of the lineup and you still have a pretty good offense (they were top 10 in goals per game last year even when Ament was injured) while if you take Spencer out of the Greyhound lineup, it all falls apart. He's a generational talent who's had a record-breaking career. He should win no matter what happens for the rest of this tournament, IMO. And while this shouldn't necessarily be a huge consideration, Ament will have another chance next year, but this is Spencer's last rodeo.

Posted: **Sat May 11, 2019 4:15 pm**

I agree that Spencer should get it. Like it or not, and whether it's official or not, the Tewy has become more of a career award, especially if the nearest competitor is not yet a senior.

Posted: **Sat May 11, 2019 4:41 pm**

Ament vs. Spencer is going to be fun next week, barring an epic UMBC upset.

DocBarrister

Posted: **Sat May 11, 2019 6:04 pm**

3G 6A for Spencer and led the charge for the Greyhounds over Syracuse.
Pretty good day for an injured guy.
His field vision is amazing. And he can beat you with speed, power or quickness. So much fun to watch!

Posted: **Sat May 11, 2019 9:44 pm**

Ierlan 31 for 35 with 29 gb. Not a bad days work.

Posted: **Sat May 11, 2019 9:53 pm**

Who’s a better all-around player than Ryan Conrad? Why isn’t he a finalist? Does any D1 midfielder come close in ground-balls, goals and assists combined? Today he had 5 goals and 7 ground balls. Matt Moore had 2 goals and 7 assists. I think Dox had 2 goals and Kraus had 6 points

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2019 Tewaaraton Finalists

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