Orange Duce

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
a fan
Posts: 19669
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Orange Duce

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:36 pm If someone votes for Trump because they prefer his policies or are reassured by the decisions he made during his first term,
apparently their vote does not count...or no such voters exist...or they're betraying an oath...or they're White Christian Nationalists.
Not what I wrote. And you know that.

What's your explanation as to why Reagan's (and both Bush's, while we're at it) approval rating among Republican voeters fluctuated when he did or said something they didn't like....yet outside of a rounding error, Trump's approval stayed the same...sky high.... for four years, with little change? No matter what he said or did, they LOVED him. Generals YOU admired told you that they didn't even know what the heck Trump's policies were...and when they thought they knew, Trump would do a 180 with a 2am tweet, sending his staff scrambling.

Yet his approval numbers never changed. You have a better explanation than mine, I'm all ears.

As you say, you're a Republican partisan. You can list dozens and dozens and dozens of flaws that you think the libs the Dem voters have with no difficult whatsoever, yeah?

But it's impossible for 2024 Republicans to have one single flaw? This is your partisanship talking...and that's fine.
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18889
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: Opinion - The view from the right on Trump’s conviction

Post by old salt »

It's not that hard to comprehend why (R)'s & Conservatives feel & react as they do.

They don't expect Trump to do everything they hope for (like balance the budget). They know that no President can or will, but they conclude that the deficit $$$ will be more effectively spent by Trump. They don't expect any President to cure all our ills or fix our education & health care systems, but they don't trust the (D) run Fed govt to do it. They trust the private sector & state & local govts to do it better & do less harm in the process.

Worth repeating...
OPINION
The view from the right on Trump’s conviction

Even conservatives critical of the former president balked at a trial that many of them saw as an abuse of the justice system.
By Carine Hajjar Globe Staff, June 1, 2024

...In a rare moment of accord across a fragmented movement, conservatives of all different stripes wrote to lament what they saw as the weaponization of the legal system against a figure that polarizes them as much as he alienates the left.

They weren’t perfectly unified, of course. The MAGA side of the right describes this case apocalyptically.

But sober-minded outlets on the center-right — some of which haven’t been friends of the former president’s — had clear-eyed arguments for why this case wasn’t a triumph but a perversion of justice.

That position was pointedly argued by legal expert Ilya Shapiro in City Journal, a publication known for its market-based, limited-government perspectives. Shapiro called the verdict a “travesty of justice.” “I say this not as a Trump-lover—I don’t love any politician, preferring transactional relationships regarding policy—but as a lover of the rule of law.” Shapiro contends that, feelings for Trump aside, the case was a legal stretch.

National Review (full disclosure: my former employer) sang a similar tune. That outlet has butted heads plenty with the former president, often pointing out how his populist agenda is mostly inconsistent with its traditional, William F. Buckley-style conservatism. But most of the big-name writers were in agreement: This case was politicized, no matter how you feel about Trump. The editors called it a “horrendous” verdict and a “textbook instance of selective prosecution.”

The Wall Street Journal editorial board (another former employer), which has been judicious in both its praise and criticism of the former president, wrote that the case “looks like a legal stretch,” describing it as “a bizarre turducken, with alleged crimes stuffed inside other crimes.” Though it pulled no punches for Trump, describing him as a “cad” and calling him out for denying his sexual relationship with Stormy Daniels, “if implausibly.” But it cautioned readers about the precedent set by this case for a “new destabilizing era of American politics.” “The conviction sets a precedent of using legal cases, no matter how sketchy, to try to knock out political opponents, including former Presidents.”

At The Dispatch, an anti-Trump online publication, the day before the verdict was decided, Nick Catoggio wrote in a newsletter that this case “has always stunk of politics, from the fact that it was held nearly a decade after the events that inspired it to the questionable legal theory on which it’s based to the dubious motives of the lead prosecutor.” Catoggio is far from a MAGA enthusiast. He has often made the classical liberal case for why not to vote for Trump, who he believes will oversee an “authoritarian nightmare” that undermines the norms of the American system even more than Democrats’ current lawfare. He even argues that a vote for Joe Biden is an investment in “keeping a fascist out of power.”

Center-right politicians were similarly disappointed by the conviction. Republican Senator Susan Collins, who’s been sharp in her criticism of the former president, suggested that this case undermines the American system of justice which “prosecutes cases because of alleged criminal conduct regardless of who the defendant happens to be,” but in this case, the opposite occurred. “The district attorney, who campaigned on a promise to prosecute Donald Trump, brought these charges precisely because of who the defendant was,” she wrote in a statement to a reporter for The Hill.

The reactions all call out two central issues with the case: that it was a weak legal argument, and that it was tainted from the beginning by political motivations.

On the merits of the case, they point to Bragg’s obscure and novel use of New York election law to bring forth this conviction. Bragg had to bend over backward to elevate the misdemeanor of falsification of records — for which the statute of limitations had already passed — to a felony, by using an obscure and rarely used New York election law. The Journal described this as a “Russian nesting doll structure” that “defies logic.” Shapiro noted that Bragg had to dig up “decade-old offenses that Bragg himself had previously declined to prosecute” and said that even with a JD and background in legal policy, this case was a head scratcher and likely headed for appeal.

There’s also broad agreement that the circumstances of the case — from the prosecutors to the judge to the venue in which it was held — were politically motivated against Trump, thus undermining the norms of the judicial process. Many have harped about the fact that Merchan is a Biden campaign donor, or the fact that Trump was tried in a deep blue district, or about Bragg’s campaign promises to go after Trump before ever trying the case. And Catoggio’s newsletter criticized president Biden for elevating the issue in his campaign.

The right might not be united on Trump as a leader or on his agenda. In fact, Trump might divide the modern right more than anything else. But for a brief moment, they’ve found unity around a question of law, and that it has been used unfairly against him. And with so many undecided voters this election season — including many anti-Trump Republicans — framing November as a decision between the law and Trump might just backfire.


Carine Hajjar is a Globe Opinion writer. She can be reached at [email protected].

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/01/ ... ervatives/
ggait
Posts: 4436
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:23 pm

Re: Orange Duce

Post by ggait »

What a crock.

It is just never quite the right time in the gop view to hold trump accountable for his obvious crimes.

Sure, I would rather have preferred trump be tried first on J6 and classified documents. But some incompetent and/or biased judging made that impossible. Total bs.

Trump had an eminently fair trial and was convicted 12-0 beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of his peers on all charges.

That’s justice. That is not injustice.

And we all know Trump will be convicted several more times if any more cases make it to trial.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
a fan
Posts: 19669
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Opinion - The view from the right on Trump’s conviction

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:52 am It's not that hard to comprehend why (R)'s & Conservatives feel & react as they do.

They don't expect Trump to do everything they hope for (like balance the budget). They know that no President can or will, but they conclude that the deficit $$$ will be more effectively spent by Trump. They don't expect any President to cure all our ills or fix our education & health care systems, but they don't trust the (D) run Fed govt to do it. They trust the private sector & state & local govts to do it better & do less harm in the process.
You just explained why Trump's approval rating among Republicans doesn't change no matter what he does, thank you for that.

And sorry, you can't lump in fiscal conservatives and how they feel. Because I'm a fiscal conservative, and you're not.

You, like your fellow Republicans, have no clue how much Trump spent, nor what he spent it on. Because if you did, you wouldn't be making the silly claim that "They trust the private sector & state & local govts to do it better & do less harm in the process.".
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23827
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Orange Duce

Post by Farfromgeneva »

ggait wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:01 am FFG.

I’ll be back to dunk on you about Georgia in November.

If I’m wrong, I’m sure you will do the same.
I’m not making any claims without touching ground in the state. There would be no reason to dunk on me. Pettiness I guess. All I’m saying is do some work instead of projecting form 2,000 mi away using “polls” and national news. I’ll bet you think my kids principal at Mary Lin is a segregationist too. Do you not understand the difference or salty because your ego is bruised that you were wrong? S**t I’ve been wrong on the value of digital assets for forever and maintain my position and yet can acknowledge I’ve been wrong to date. But that’s not a function in the capacity of your brain or soul? Just keep defending no matter what. Like the old play where the Irish guy is fighting the seas walking into it to his death?

Do you realize you are bragging about dunking on me if Trump effectively wins the presidency since Georgia is a huge swing state? Do you know how small that would be as our country is burning down? Sweet. You are a huge winner! You sure you aren’t an academic missing the big picture to pat yourself on your own back for a minuscule win? Guessing you are well north of me in age with no or adult kids.

And the lack of any direct answer tells me what I need to know without mining your posts. Couldn’t just say “yeah I missed the boat on Ga last time but strongly belie it’s going in the other direction based on my readings from afar” right. That would be too modest and humble for you?

The dumbest part is all I’m acknowledging is the change in the state which is coming with northern migration. We’re not taking in the information averse folks moving from the north like Cradles buddy in SC. If you really oh attention you’d more Nashville is changing too it just doesn’t affect TN as much as Atlanta impacts Ga. Maybe go overseas and see how much some European capitals impact their countries politics. The comparison being many of those countries populations are closer to the state of Georgia than the US in case you’re not following.

You’re acting fundamentally no different than the maga folks. Want to have riskless upside and no accountability. I’ll let Jennifer Jason Leigh “dunking on” don Draper explain it to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMsnKFxjxSw
Last edited by Farfromgeneva on Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23827
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Opinion - The view from the right on Trump’s conviction

Post by Farfromgeneva »

old salt wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:52 am It's not that hard to comprehend why (R)'s & Conservatives feel & react as they do.

They don't expect Trump to do everything they hope for (like balance the budget). They know that no President can or will, but they conclude that the deficit $$$ will be more effectively spent by Trump. They don't expect any President to cure all our ills or fix our education & health care systems, but they don't trust the (D) run Fed govt to do it. They trust the private sector & state & local govts to do it better & do less harm in the process.

Worth repeating...
OPINION
The view from the right on Trump’s conviction

Even conservatives critical of the former president balked at a trial that many of them saw as an abuse of the justice system.
By Carine Hajjar Globe Staff, June 1, 2024

...In a rare moment of accord across a fragmented movement, conservatives of all different stripes wrote to lament what they saw as the weaponization of the legal system against a figure that polarizes them as much as he alienates the left.

They weren’t perfectly unified, of course. The MAGA side of the right describes this case apocalyptically.

But sober-minded outlets on the center-right — some of which haven’t been friends of the former president’s — had clear-eyed arguments for why this case wasn’t a triumph but a perversion of justice.

That position was pointedly argued by legal expert Ilya Shapiro in City Journal, a publication known for its market-based, limited-government perspectives. Shapiro called the verdict a “travesty of justice.” “I say this not as a Trump-lover—I don’t love any politician, preferring transactional relationships regarding policy—but as a lover of the rule of law.” Shapiro contends that, feelings for Trump aside, the case was a legal stretch.

National Review (full disclosure: my former employer) sang a similar tune. That outlet has butted heads plenty with the former president, often pointing out how his populist agenda is mostly inconsistent with its traditional, William F. Buckley-style conservatism. But most of the big-name writers were in agreement: This case was politicized, no matter how you feel about Trump. The editors called it a “horrendous” verdict and a “textbook instance of selective prosecution.”

The Wall Street Journal editorial board (another former employer), which has been judicious in both its praise and criticism of the former president, wrote that the case “looks like a legal stretch,” describing it as “a bizarre turducken, with alleged crimes stuffed inside other crimes.” Though it pulled no punches for Trump, describing him as a “cad” and calling him out for denying his sexual relationship with Stormy Daniels, “if implausibly.” But it cautioned readers about the precedent set by this case for a “new destabilizing era of American politics.” “The conviction sets a precedent of using legal cases, no matter how sketchy, to try to knock out political opponents, including former Presidents.”

At The Dispatch, an anti-Trump online publication, the day before the verdict was decided, Nick Catoggio wrote in a newsletter that this case “has always stunk of politics, from the fact that it was held nearly a decade after the events that inspired it to the questionable legal theory on which it’s based to the dubious motives of the lead prosecutor.” Catoggio is far from a MAGA enthusiast. He has often made the classical liberal case for why not to vote for Trump, who he believes will oversee an “authoritarian nightmare” that undermines the norms of the American system even more than Democrats’ current lawfare. He even argues that a vote for Joe Biden is an investment in “keeping a fascist out of power.”

Center-right politicians were similarly disappointed by the conviction. Republican Senator Susan Collins, who’s been sharp in her criticism of the former president, suggested that this case undermines the American system of justice which “prosecutes cases because of alleged criminal conduct regardless of who the defendant happens to be,” but in this case, the opposite occurred. “The district attorney, who campaigned on a promise to prosecute Donald Trump, brought these charges precisely because of who the defendant was,” she wrote in a statement to a reporter for The Hill.

The reactions all call out two central issues with the case: that it was a weak legal argument, and that it was tainted from the beginning by political motivations.

On the merits of the case, they point to Bragg’s obscure and novel use of New York election law to bring forth this conviction. Bragg had to bend over backward to elevate the misdemeanor of falsification of records — for which the statute of limitations had already passed — to a felony, by using an obscure and rarely used New York election law. The Journal described this as a “Russian nesting doll structure” that “defies logic.” Shapiro noted that Bragg had to dig up “decade-old offenses that Bragg himself had previously declined to prosecute” and said that even with a JD and background in legal policy, this case was a head scratcher and likely headed for appeal.

There’s also broad agreement that the circumstances of the case — from the prosecutors to the judge to the venue in which it was held — were politically motivated against Trump, thus undermining the norms of the judicial process. Many have harped about the fact that Merchan is a Biden campaign donor, or the fact that Trump was tried in a deep blue district, or about Bragg’s campaign promises to go after Trump before ever trying the case. And Catoggio’s newsletter criticized president Biden for elevating the issue in his campaign.

The right might not be united on Trump as a leader or on his agenda. In fact, Trump might divide the modern right more than anything else. But for a brief moment, they’ve found unity around a question of law, and that it has been used unfairly against him. And with so many undecided voters this election season — including many anti-Trump Republicans — framing November as a decision between the law and Trump might just backfire.


Carine Hajjar is a Globe Opinion writer. She can be reached at [email protected].

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/01/ ... ervatives/
The lying while continuing to truly not understand facts is the problem you gloss over. The claims of moral superiority while riding a POS who is clearly an authoritarian and still espousing freedom principles is grossly dishonest. Some folks still don’t get that or don’t care about behaving such way.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23827
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Orange Duce

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 6:02 pm
a fan wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 5:28 pm
ggait wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 5:24 pm FNC talking a lot right now about…wait for it…

Hunter Biden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:roll: :roll:
It's like watching a toddler try and pronounce the word "biochemistry".

How stupid do you have to be to tell the world that prosecuting Trump for breaking laws is bad and corrupt and "banana republica"....while in the same breath....... prosecuting Hunter and having the DoJ and FBI look for financial ties to Joe and corruption is sooper-perfect-awesome?

So tired of how stupid our nation has become.
Trump is a lifelong criminal. Had he not been President nobody would be cheering him on. Cult of personality.
Look in my eyes…what do you see?

The cult of personality,
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23827
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Orange Duce

Post by Farfromgeneva »

ggait wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:01 am FFG.

I’ll be back to dunk on you about Georgia in November.

If I’m wrong, I’m sure you will do the same.
Btw all your shrieking about people being aholes for considering a no vote or their sorry vote is worthless trash printed now that you appear to care more about being right on a projection with limited information over the outcome…makes all those posts fraudulent

And the last two times folks tried dunking on me they ended up with casts on their wrists. Even if one of the turns cost me a broken lower anterior rib.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
SCLaxAttack
Posts: 1722
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:24 pm

Re: Opinion - The view from the right on Trump’s conviction

Post by SCLaxAttack »

old salt wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:52 am It's not that hard to comprehend why (R)'s & Conservatives feel & react as they do.

They don't expect Trump to do everything they hope for (like balance the budget). They know that no President can or will, but they conclude that the deficit $$$ will be more effectively spent by Trump. They don't expect any President to cure all our ills or fix our education & health care systems, but they don't trust the (D) run Fed govt to do it. They trust the private sector & state & local govts to do it better & do less harm in the process.

Worth repeating...
OPINION
The view from the right on Trump’s conviction

Even conservatives critical of the former president balked at a trial that many of them saw as an abuse of the justice system.
By Carine Hajjar Globe Staff, June 1, 2024

...In a rare moment of accord across a fragmented movement, conservatives of all different stripes wrote to lament what they saw as the weaponization of the legal system against a figure that polarizes them as much as he alienates the left.

They weren’t perfectly unified, of course. The MAGA side of the right describes this case apocalyptically.

But sober-minded outlets on the center-right — some of which haven’t been friends of the former president’s — had clear-eyed arguments for why this case wasn’t a triumph but a perversion of justice.

That position was pointedly argued by legal expert Ilya Shapiro in City Journal, a publication known for its market-based, limited-government perspectives. Shapiro called the verdict a “travesty of justice.” “I say this not as a Trump-lover—I don’t love any politician, preferring transactional relationships regarding policy—but as a lover of the rule of law.” Shapiro contends that, feelings for Trump aside, the case was a legal stretch.

National Review (full disclosure: my former employer) sang a similar tune. That outlet has butted heads plenty with the former president, often pointing out how his populist agenda is mostly inconsistent with its traditional, William F. Buckley-style conservatism. But most of the big-name writers were in agreement: This case was politicized, no matter how you feel about Trump. The editors called it a “horrendous” verdict and a “textbook instance of selective prosecution.”

The Wall Street Journal editorial board (another former employer), which has been judicious in both its praise and criticism of the former president, wrote that the case “looks like a legal stretch,” describing it as “a bizarre turducken, with alleged crimes stuffed inside other crimes.” Though it pulled no punches for Trump, describing him as a “cad” and calling him out for denying his sexual relationship with Stormy Daniels, “if implausibly.” But it cautioned readers about the precedent set by this case for a “new destabilizing era of American politics.” “The conviction sets a precedent of using legal cases, no matter how sketchy, to try to knock out political opponents, including former Presidents.”

At The Dispatch, an anti-Trump online publication, the day before the verdict was decided, Nick Catoggio wrote in a newsletter that this case “has always stunk of politics, from the fact that it was held nearly a decade after the events that inspired it to the questionable legal theory on which it’s based to the dubious motives of the lead prosecutor.” Catoggio is far from a MAGA enthusiast. He has often made the classical liberal case for why not to vote for Trump, who he believes will oversee an “authoritarian nightmare” that undermines the norms of the American system even more than Democrats’ current lawfare. He even argues that a vote for Joe Biden is an investment in “keeping a fascist out of power.”

Center-right politicians were similarly disappointed by the conviction. Republican Senator Susan Collins, who’s been sharp in her criticism of the former president, suggested that this case undermines the American system of justice which “prosecutes cases because of alleged criminal conduct regardless of who the defendant happens to be,” but in this case, the opposite occurred. “The district attorney, who campaigned on a promise to prosecute Donald Trump, brought these charges precisely because of who the defendant was,” she wrote in a statement to a reporter for The Hill.

The reactions all call out two central issues with the case: that it was a weak legal argument, and that it was tainted from the beginning by political motivations.

On the merits of the case, they point to Bragg’s obscure and novel use of New York election law to bring forth this conviction. Bragg had to bend over backward to elevate the misdemeanor of falsification of records — for which the statute of limitations had already passed — to a felony, by using an obscure and rarely used New York election law. The Journal described this as a “Russian nesting doll structure” that “defies logic.” Shapiro noted that Bragg had to dig up “decade-old offenses that Bragg himself had previously declined to prosecute” and said that even with a JD and background in legal policy, this case was a head scratcher and likely headed for appeal.

There’s also broad agreement that the circumstances of the case — from the prosecutors to the judge to the venue in which it was held — were politically motivated against Trump, thus undermining the norms of the judicial process. Many have harped about the fact that Merchan is a Biden campaign donor, or the fact that Trump was tried in a deep blue district, or about Bragg’s campaign promises to go after Trump before ever trying the case. And Catoggio’s newsletter criticized president Biden for elevating the issue in his campaign.

The right might not be united on Trump as a leader or on his agenda. In fact, Trump might divide the modern right more than anything else. But for a brief moment, they’ve found unity around a question of law, and that it has been used unfairly against him. And with so many undecided voters this election season — including many anti-Trump Republicans — framing November as a decision between the law and Trump might just backfire.


Carine Hajjar is a Globe Opinion writer. She can be reached at [email protected].

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/01/ ... ervatives/
Bragg's local government.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23827
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am

Re: Opinion - The view from the right on Trump’s conviction

Post by Farfromgeneva »

old salt wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:52 am It's not that hard to comprehend why (R)'s & Conservatives feel & react as they do.

They don't expect Trump to do everything they hope for (like balance the budget). They know that no President can or will, but they conclude that the deficit $$$ will be more effectively spent by Trump. They don't expect any President to cure all our ills or fix our education & health care systems, but they don't trust the (D) run Fed govt to do it. They trust the private sector & state & local govts to do it better & do less harm in the process.

Worth repeating...
OPINION
The view from the right on Trump’s conviction

Even conservatives critical of the former president balked at a trial that many of them saw as an abuse of the justice system.
By Carine Hajjar Globe Staff, June 1, 2024

...In a rare moment of accord across a fragmented movement, conservatives of all different stripes wrote to lament what they saw as the weaponization of the legal system against a figure that polarizes them as much as he alienates the left.

They weren’t perfectly unified, of course. The MAGA side of the right describes this case apocalyptically.

But sober-minded outlets on the center-right — some of which haven’t been friends of the former president’s — had clear-eyed arguments for why this case wasn’t a triumph but a perversion of justice.

That position was pointedly argued by legal expert Ilya Shapiro in City Journal, a publication known for its market-based, limited-government perspectives. Shapiro called the verdict a “travesty of justice.” “I say this not as a Trump-lover—I don’t love any politician, preferring transactional relationships regarding policy—but as a lover of the rule of law.” Shapiro contends that, feelings for Trump aside, the case was a legal stretch.

National Review (full disclosure: my former employer) sang a similar tune. That outlet has butted heads plenty with the former president, often pointing out how his populist agenda is mostly inconsistent with its traditional, William F. Buckley-style conservatism. But most of the big-name writers were in agreement: This case was politicized, no matter how you feel about Trump. The editors called it a “horrendous” verdict and a “textbook instance of selective prosecution.”

The Wall Street Journal editorial board (another former employer), which has been judicious in both its praise and criticism of the former president, wrote that the case “looks like a legal stretch,” describing it as “a bizarre turducken, with alleged crimes stuffed inside other crimes.” Though it pulled no punches for Trump, describing him as a “cad” and calling him out for denying his sexual relationship with Stormy Daniels, “if implausibly.” But it cautioned readers about the precedent set by this case for a “new destabilizing era of American politics.” “The conviction sets a precedent of using legal cases, no matter how sketchy, to try to knock out political opponents, including former Presidents.”

At The Dispatch, an anti-Trump online publication, the day before the verdict was decided, Nick Catoggio wrote in a newsletter that this case “has always stunk of politics, from the fact that it was held nearly a decade after the events that inspired it to the questionable legal theory on which it’s based to the dubious motives of the lead prosecutor.” Catoggio is far from a MAGA enthusiast. He has often made the classical liberal case for why not to vote for Trump, who he believes will oversee an “authoritarian nightmare” that undermines the norms of the American system even more than Democrats’ current lawfare. He even argues that a vote for Joe Biden is an investment in “keeping a fascist out of power.”

Center-right politicians were similarly disappointed by the conviction. Republican Senator Susan Collins, who’s been sharp in her criticism of the former president, suggested that this case undermines the American system of justice which “prosecutes cases because of alleged criminal conduct regardless of who the defendant happens to be,” but in this case, the opposite occurred. “The district attorney, who campaigned on a promise to prosecute Donald Trump, brought these charges precisely because of who the defendant was,” she wrote in a statement to a reporter for The Hill.

The reactions all call out two central issues with the case: that it was a weak legal argument, and that it was tainted from the beginning by political motivations.

On the merits of the case, they point to Bragg’s obscure and novel use of New York election law to bring forth this conviction. Bragg had to bend over backward to elevate the misdemeanor of falsification of records — for which the statute of limitations had already passed — to a felony, by using an obscure and rarely used New York election law. The Journal described this as a “Russian nesting doll structure” that “defies logic.” Shapiro noted that Bragg had to dig up “decade-old offenses that Bragg himself had previously declined to prosecute” and said that even with a JD and background in legal policy, this case was a head scratcher and likely headed for appeal.

There’s also broad agreement that the circumstances of the case — from the prosecutors to the judge to the venue in which it was held — were politically motivated against Trump, thus undermining the norms of the judicial process. Many have harped about the fact that Merchan is a Biden campaign donor, or the fact that Trump was tried in a deep blue district, or about Bragg’s campaign promises to go after Trump before ever trying the case. And Catoggio’s newsletter criticized president Biden for elevating the issue in his campaign.

The right might not be united on Trump as a leader or on his agenda. In fact, Trump might divide the modern right more than anything else. But for a brief moment, they’ve found unity around a question of law, and that it has been used unfairly against him. And with so many undecided voters this election season — including many anti-Trump Republicans — framing November as a decision between the law and Trump might just backfire.


Carine Hajjar is a Globe Opinion writer. She can be reached at [email protected].

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/01/ ... ervatives/
Bullshti you don’t trust the private sector how many comments on lawyers and bankers have you made. This is not true. These folks don’t trust anything and just want their way.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
a fan
Posts: 19669
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: Opinion - The view from the right on Trump’s conviction

Post by a fan »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 10:31 am
old salt wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:52 am It's not that hard to comprehend why (R)'s & Conservatives feel & react as they do.

They don't expect Trump to do everything they hope for (like balance the budget). They know that no President can or will, but they conclude that the deficit $$$ will be more effectively spent by Trump. They don't expect any President to cure all our ills or fix our education & health care systems, but they don't trust the (D) run Fed govt to do it. They trust the private sector & state & local govts to do it better & do less harm in the process.

Worth repeating...
OPINION
The view from the right on Trump’s conviction

Even conservatives critical of the former president balked at a trial that many of them saw as an abuse of the justice system.
By Carine Hajjar Globe Staff, June 1, 2024

...In a rare moment of accord across a fragmented movement, conservatives of all different stripes wrote to lament what they saw as the weaponization of the legal system against a figure that polarizes them as much as he alienates the left.

They weren’t perfectly unified, of course. The MAGA side of the right describes this case apocalyptically.

But sober-minded outlets on the center-right — some of which haven’t been friends of the former president’s — had clear-eyed arguments for why this case wasn’t a triumph but a perversion of justice.

That position was pointedly argued by legal expert Ilya Shapiro in City Journal, a publication known for its market-based, limited-government perspectives. Shapiro called the verdict a “travesty of justice.” “I say this not as a Trump-lover—I don’t love any politician, preferring transactional relationships regarding policy—but as a lover of the rule of law.” Shapiro contends that, feelings for Trump aside, the case was a legal stretch.

National Review (full disclosure: my former employer) sang a similar tune. That outlet has butted heads plenty with the former president, often pointing out how his populist agenda is mostly inconsistent with its traditional, William F. Buckley-style conservatism. But most of the big-name writers were in agreement: This case was politicized, no matter how you feel about Trump. The editors called it a “horrendous” verdict and a “textbook instance of selective prosecution.”

The Wall Street Journal editorial board (another former employer), which has been judicious in both its praise and criticism of the former president, wrote that the case “looks like a legal stretch,” describing it as “a bizarre turducken, with alleged crimes stuffed inside other crimes.” Though it pulled no punches for Trump, describing him as a “cad” and calling him out for denying his sexual relationship with Stormy Daniels, “if implausibly.” But it cautioned readers about the precedent set by this case for a “new destabilizing era of American politics.” “The conviction sets a precedent of using legal cases, no matter how sketchy, to try to knock out political opponents, including former Presidents.”

At The Dispatch, an anti-Trump online publication, the day before the verdict was decided, Nick Catoggio wrote in a newsletter that this case “has always stunk of politics, from the fact that it was held nearly a decade after the events that inspired it to the questionable legal theory on which it’s based to the dubious motives of the lead prosecutor.” Catoggio is far from a MAGA enthusiast. He has often made the classical liberal case for why not to vote for Trump, who he believes will oversee an “authoritarian nightmare” that undermines the norms of the American system even more than Democrats’ current lawfare. He even argues that a vote for Joe Biden is an investment in “keeping a fascist out of power.”

Center-right politicians were similarly disappointed by the conviction. Republican Senator Susan Collins, who’s been sharp in her criticism of the former president, suggested that this case undermines the American system of justice which “prosecutes cases because of alleged criminal conduct regardless of who the defendant happens to be,” but in this case, the opposite occurred. “The district attorney, who campaigned on a promise to prosecute Donald Trump, brought these charges precisely because of who the defendant was,” she wrote in a statement to a reporter for The Hill.

The reactions all call out two central issues with the case: that it was a weak legal argument, and that it was tainted from the beginning by political motivations.

On the merits of the case, they point to Bragg’s obscure and novel use of New York election law to bring forth this conviction. Bragg had to bend over backward to elevate the misdemeanor of falsification of records — for which the statute of limitations had already passed — to a felony, by using an obscure and rarely used New York election law. The Journal described this as a “Russian nesting doll structure” that “defies logic.” Shapiro noted that Bragg had to dig up “decade-old offenses that Bragg himself had previously declined to prosecute” and said that even with a JD and background in legal policy, this case was a head scratcher and likely headed for appeal.

There’s also broad agreement that the circumstances of the case — from the prosecutors to the judge to the venue in which it was held — were politically motivated against Trump, thus undermining the norms of the judicial process. Many have harped about the fact that Merchan is a Biden campaign donor, or the fact that Trump was tried in a deep blue district, or about Bragg’s campaign promises to go after Trump before ever trying the case. And Catoggio’s newsletter criticized president Biden for elevating the issue in his campaign.

The right might not be united on Trump as a leader or on his agenda. In fact, Trump might divide the modern right more than anything else. But for a brief moment, they’ve found unity around a question of law, and that it has been used unfairly against him. And with so many undecided voters this election season — including many anti-Trump Republicans — framing November as a decision between the law and Trump might just backfire.


Carine Hajjar is a Globe Opinion writer. She can be reached at [email protected].

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/06/01/ ... ervatives/
Bullshti you don’t trust the private sector how many comments on lawyers and bankers have you made. This is not true. These folks don’t trust anything and just want their way.
Bingo.

They can't explain their way out of this.

If you're not supposed to indict Presidents or politicians? Why investigate them? They can't answer that.

If Trump was found not guilty...they would have said "see!!!! I told you this was a bad prosecution!!!"

And we see what they do when he's convicted.

Keep moving the goalposts over and over and over, until it suits their view.


They simply prefer Republican policies. And they don't care what it takes to get them. This is what partisanship looks like...and if you try and give these Americans any other policy than what a little R gives them....they start screaming conspiracy.

Because it's simply not possible that their guy broke some simple laws. And it's not possible that they lost an election. And it's not possible that their policies is why we have inflation. And on and on and on and on.....
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by a fan »

This tells you everything you need to know. When elected, Trump wil do the exact same thing he diid last time: nothing. Lift not one finger to help the working class. He's telling his fans this, and they can't see it.

He's going to serve them what they are begging for: more conspiracy theories. More shiny objects. More utter nonsense. in short, give them what they want.

"Yes," (Trump) told co-host Rachel Campos-Duffy, insisting he would declassify the 9/11, JFK and Epstein files to restore some trust lost in American institutions.

Protip to the American working class: your family can't eat conspiracy theories. You can't use 9/11 papers to put a roof over you. The Epstein sooper secret files won't educate your kids, or get them good jobs.

Oh well. We're not supposed to tell these people how to think, or that makes us bad. So....let 'em not figure it out for themselves. Again.
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by cradleandshoot »

njbill wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:11 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:02 pm
njbill wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:19 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:13 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:01 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:57 pm Believe his 35% base is unchanged no matter what Trump says or does and no matter what the media or critics say or do. I agree with you on that.
Thanks TLD. You put it a lot more succinctly than I did.
So nothing much has changed. trumps people will vote for him no matter what. Bidens people will vote for him no matter what. Will the upcoming debate change any ones opinion? I doubt it, but if your looking for one bizarre spectacle of a presidential debate this is the one you want to see. I can only speak for myself. My opinion will not change. No way in hell I vote for either of these knuckle heads. I'm not alone in feeling that way.
If you are going to vote for someone other than Trump or Biden, or not vote at all, you certainly understand that either Trump or Biden will win the election. Which one do you want to win between those two?

In 1980, I voted for John Anderson. I thought Carter had done a terrible job and there was no way in hell I would ever vote for a right wing idiot like Ronald Reagan. I knew Anderson wasn’t going to win. Between the two, I wanted Carter to win.

So how about you?
I'm waiting to see how the 3rd party field plays out. I do know that many other people feel the same way. Neither individual is qualified to be president.
You are ducking. You know that any third-party candidate isn’t going to win even if you vote for him.

So who do you want to win between Biden and Trump?
No ducking counselor. You asked and I will answer. I guarantee you will not agree with or like my reply. First off for clarification, I will not vote for either of these 2 defective idiots. That is irreversible. You asked the question so I will reply. I would reluctantly and repugnantly prefer trump. IMO the intolerant, angry hate filled wing of the Democrat made a huge miscalculation. They moved forward with all of their prosecutions of trump not out of a sense of justice but out of pure unadulterated hatred. Four more years of Biden and poor Lester Holt will have to prop toothpicks under his eyelids to stop prom falling asleep while broadcasting the nightly news. If trump wins in November and after you have recovered from your nervous breakdown you already instinctively know what happens next. Jan. 21 trump gives himself an unconditional pardon along with a bunch of others. Jan 22 trumps DoJ lays the groundwork for a scorched earth policy against his enemies.

Lester Holt...aka Americas news man will never be bored reporting the evening news. Do you remember that nasty ass scowl on trumps mug? That tells me there will be alot of Democrats that know they will be in for the same treatment they dished out on trump. This will have absolutely nothing to do with justice counselor. This will be about revenge from a weaponized DoJ that will give no quarter. This scenario counselor is based on trump winning in November. One thing I know for certain, none of it will be boring.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
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old salt
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by old salt »

I've been debt free & have not paid a cent in interest on anything since 1979, but I'm not a fiscal conservative. Okie Dokie.

When our deficit exceeds our GDP & our debt service exceeds our defense costs, it's time to lower our credit card limit & forgo a new car.
I'm for entitlement reform. Which party calls that throwing grandma over the cliff ? I think that students should pay for college or earn a scholarship via proven K-12 performance.

I don't trust the lawyers who make our Justice system a political weapon & the investment bankers whose schemes generate economic crises which require govt bailouts.

Bragg was locally elected but he didn't go after Trump until the #3 guy from Biden's DoJ reported for duty & took over, making Bragg fulfill his campaign promise.

Given what it's going to cost us to transform Ukraine into a democratic EU paradise, I was ok letting it stay another weak Belarus, so long as it was not a threat to us. I'm all for selling Taiwan any weapons they want to deter China from invading.
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:29 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:17 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:12 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:01 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:57 pm Believe his 35% base is unchanged no matter what Trump says or does and no matter what the media or critics say or do. I agree with you on that.
Thanks TLD. You put it a lot more succinctly than I did.
Yes but you also stated as if you believe these people about what he says bs what he does and yet also states you don’t bother with further inquiry. That’s a logic leap that can’t reasonably be followed.
I read this over a couple times but I don't understand what you're saying here. Can you put it another way?
You refuse go ask what things he actually did from them. Just believing what they say and or bothering to find out if they are in the real world or not.

If you want to ignore spectrums and only comment in binary positions you are absolutely a cognitive distortion and not useful to discussion

https://www.hope-wellness.com/blog/8-co ... format=amp
You lost me, for a couple of reasons (and I don’t mean to be disrespectful in explaining why with the quotes I’m going to use).

The first reason is—half the time I don’t know what you’re talking about. And the quotes that came to mind to demonstrate this:

“Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a fungo.” Bull Durham, “Crash” to Annie Savoy


"Who is that?"
"That's Cassady."
This strikes me as a marvelous fact. I remember Cassady. Cassady, Neal Cassady, was the hero, "Dean Moriarty," of Jack Kerouac's On the Road, the Denver Kid, a kid who was always racing back and forth across the U.S. by car, chasing, or outrunning, "life," and here is the same guy, now 40, in the garage, flipping a sledge hammer, rocketing about to his own Joe Cuba and—talking. Cassady never stops talking. But that is a bad way to put it. Cassady is a monologuist, only he doesn't seem to care whether anyone is listening or not. He just goes off on the monologue, by himself if necessary, although anyone is welcome aboard. He will answer all questions, although not exactly in that order, because we can't stop here, next rest area 40 miles, you understand, spinning off memories, metaphors, literary, Oriental, hip allusions, all punctuated by the unlikely expression, "you understand—" From Tom Wolfe’s The Electric Koolaid Acid Test


And the second reason is your oft-felt aggression when you challenge points I’ve made, or points you think I’ve made. Either way, it’s not pleasant getting into a conversation with you.

So again—no disrespect intended—just letting you know how discussions with you on these boards leave me feeling. No biggie. That’s what makes me, me and you, you. I just feel we don’t have the chemistry for a point/counter-point.
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:32 pm I've been debt free & have not paid a cent in interest on anything since 1979, but I'm not a fiscal conservative. Okie Dokie.

When our deficit exceeds our GDP & our debt service exceeds our defense costs, it's time to lower our credit card limit & forgo a new car.
I'm for entitlement reform. Which party calls that throwing grandma over the cliff ? I think that students should pay for college or earn a scholarship via proven K-12 performance.

I don't trust the lawyers who make our Justice system a political weapon & the investment bankers whose schemes generate economic crises which require govt bailouts.

Bragg was locally elected but he didn't go after Trump until the #3 guy from Biden's DoJ reported for duty & took over, making Bragg fulfill his campaign promise.

Given what it's going to cost us to transform Ukraine into a democratic EU paradise, I was ok letting it stay another weak Belarus, so long as it was not a threat to us. I'm all for selling Taiwan any weapons they want to deter China from invading.
All you're doing is making my point a second time. You told me yourself...several times... that you don't follow spending bills, outside of military. You've just forgotten that you told me that. You don't follow spending policy. It's the reason you gave for not engaging when I told you about alllllll the borrowing and spending Trump was doing. You didn't care.

Now you're on here telling me that you think personally, and that Republican voters in general....think that Republicans like Trump spend money "better" than Biden and the Dems.

A. you can't make that judgement because as you say, you pay ZERO attention to what's in our spending bills.

B. you're simply wrong. Trump exploded the size of government, just as I told you he would before he took office.


You believe what you believe about R's always being better than D's despite any fact so the contrary involving any subject because you're a partisan.

That's 100% fine. But this is where you and I go round and round because you make factually incorrect claims, and then when I slowly point out that you're simply incorrect....you call it badgering and the like.

So.....just walk. All you did here was tell the forum just what I told them regarding Republicans and policies: they don't bother to check to see what the ACUTAL policies are. This is why Trump's approval doesn't move. You cats stopped holding Republicans accountable, and have replaced it with your "well, they're always better than Dems". And you don't care if that's true or not.

Which again, is fine. You do you. But your gaslighting is pointless for both you and I. Just walk away from a conversation you don't really want to have....and that conversation is: lets go over Trump's spending bills. Same with Biden. You just want to make your claim to be a fact, and don't want to be told you're simply wrong.
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by a fan »

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 2:17 pm "That's Cassady."
This strikes me as a marvelous fact. I remember Cassady. Cassady, Neal Cassady, was the hero, "Dean Moriarty," of Jack Kerouac's On the Road, the Denver Kid, a kid who was always racing back and forth across the U.S. by car, chasing, or outrunning, "life," and here is the same guy, now 40, in the garage, flipping a sledge hammer, rocketing about to his own Joe Cuba and—talking. Cassady never stops talking. But that is a bad way to put it. Cassady is a monologuist, only he doesn't seem to care whether anyone is listening or not. He just goes off on the monologue, by himself if necessary, although anyone is welcome aboard. He will answer all questions, although not exactly in that order, because we can't stop here, next rest area 40 miles, you understand, spinning off memories, metaphors, literary, Oriental, hip allusions, all punctuated by the unlikely expression, "you understand—" From Tom Wolfe’s The Electric Koolaid Acid Test[/i]
Great book. And I read Kerouacs entire oeuvre in HS. Favorite is still Dharma Bums.
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OuttaNowhereWregget
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

a fan wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 2:28 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 2:17 pm "That's Cassady."
This strikes me as a marvelous fact. I remember Cassady. Cassady, Neal Cassady, was the hero, "Dean Moriarty," of Jack Kerouac's On the Road, the Denver Kid, a kid who was always racing back and forth across the U.S. by car, chasing, or outrunning, "life," and here is the same guy, now 40, in the garage, flipping a sledge hammer, rocketing about to his own Joe Cuba and—talking. Cassady never stops talking. But that is a bad way to put it. Cassady is a monologuist, only he doesn't seem to care whether anyone is listening or not. He just goes off on the monologue, by himself if necessary, although anyone is welcome aboard. He will answer all questions, although not exactly in that order, because we can't stop here, next rest area 40 miles, you understand, spinning off memories, metaphors, literary, Oriental, hip allusions, all punctuated by the unlikely expression, "you understand—" From Tom Wolfe’s The Electric Koolaid Acid Test
Great book. And I read Kerouacs entire oeuvre in HS. Favorite is still Dharma Bums.
I never read any of his stuff--Kerouac, that is. But yeah--loved Koolaid, loved Tom Wolfe. Read a few of his books but I enjoyed this best. He really captured that whole time of the 60's revolution/hippies/new (acid) drug culture, etc. Read Koolaid a few times. Obviously, some of it stayed with me. One of my favorite parts (among so many) is when Wolfe describes how Kesey was invited to speak before an anti-Vietnam War rally at Berkeley before a massive march to Oakland, and how he just diffused the whole atmosphere with his "that's their thing" philosophy. Too funny. So many great anecdotes from that journalistic masterpiece.
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old salt
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Re: Orange Duce

Post by old salt »

Yeah. I didn't notice the spending on the infrastructure & pandemic relief bills.
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Re: Orange Duce

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old salt wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 2:45 pm Yeah. I didn't notice the spending on the infrastructure & pandemic relief bills.
I'm talking about Trump's spending. Look, you've forgotten, but you told me directly that you don't pay attention to spending bills when I kept asking you to comment on Trump's massive spending increases BEFORE Covid.

And that's fine. But don't tell me today that you know what's in those Trump bills. You don't.

And you have no interest in going over it, which is something you also told me before. Now that I know the Laxpower guy wasn't really you, and that Trump didn't change you overnight...I'm happy to respect your full-on partisan views.

You just think R's spend better than D's, and have no interest in seeing if that's actually true.

.....and you do you. I have no problem with this.
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