OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:13 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:16 pm
Sure. But that's not at all the same thing as caring about policies. What they are doing is
starting with the position that they like Trump no matter what, and then inventing reasons why, and discarding anything and everything that runs counter to "I like Trump".
Waaaaay too simplified. We're talking about a whole group made up of complex human beings. I was in touch with a woman living in Israel during Trump's presidency. She thought he was a raving looney and a capital A aszhole--but she loved what he was doing for her country, and she loved the fact that she could now travel to the United Arab Emirates. I know there are other people in America who felt and continue to feel the same way. I worked with a guy who was from Vietnam during Trump's term. He loved that he stood up to China, because the Vietnamese, he told me, detest China. He liked what Trump DID. They ultimately didn't care what kind of person he was or what kind of character he had. That's just a couple of examples that come to mind.
If this was correct, Trump's polling among Republicans would look the same as they did under Reagan....where favorability goes up and down according to what Reagan did. Because this "a whole group of complex human beings" thing applies to ALL humans, not just TrumpFans, correct?"
Understand that we have never in the history of our nation have a POTUS who polled at the high 80's to 90's for a given Party for four years.
What has happened is the arrival of right wing media...where they tell their viewer that everything Trump does is awesome. Criticize nothing. Ignore anything that Trump does or doesn't do that isn't really conservative, and do NOT tell viewers about it.
It's why I asked you to quiz your friends who like Trump's policies: they will NEVER hear that Trump increased the size of Federal Government by nearly 100% in four years, cut the heck out of taxes....and flooded the American economy with literally ~3 trillion dollars of borrowed money.... and then claimed how awesome the economy was under Trump.
What happens when you double the amount of currency available in a country in a few short years? That's right: inflation, as that cash is devalued. Do R's blame Trump for that? Nope. Why? Because they were
never informed that Trump increased Federal cash outlays by nearly $3 trillion in four short years. It's why I say policy doesn't matter....these voters
don't bother looking at what Trump did the way that they did under previous R Presidents. They just consume what Fox et. al. tell them Trump did, and do NOT question it. This is KILLING our country.
There isn't a corollary to Right Wing news for the Dems. Result? Biden started at 88% approval among Dems...and he's now at 64%. Not only do Dems hear about the bad things Biden does...they actually CARE about what he does. That's how it's SUPPOSED to work in America. The Dem partiy and their media and voters simply don't behave the same way that 2024 Republicans and their media do. This is a very new, and VERY dangerous thing.
a fan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:16 pm
Look at Trump's polling. It's unique among Presidents, and unique among American Presidents.....no matter what he did over 4 years, his approval was in the high 80's or 90's for R voters.
What he said and did was immaterial to Republican voters.
I think we're saying the same thing, just in different ways.[/quote]
Roughly? Yes! And I'm enjoying the discussion.
a fan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 3:16 pm
Reagan's approval among Republicans was related to actions and policies. That ship has sailed for the R party. Which is a serious problem if you ask me.
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:13 pm
I agree wholeheartedly--it is indeed a serious problem. There is a large segment of the population that is pissed off at liberal mindsets and policies becoming more and more pervasive in American culture.
That's coming from Right Wing Media. Because Republicans no longer have one. single. solitary. solution to help America's working class. These outlets give Right Wing Americans pointless cultural clickbait: keep them perpetually angry and clicking, lining the pockets of the folks running these sites. So what happens? Molehllls become mountains. How many Trans athletes are there versus women athletes? What is it? A million to one? But you wouldn't know it if you paid any attention to clickbait.
Worse still, most consumers (and most especially the elderly) simply don't understand that when you click on something? What you're telling the internet and the folks who pay for advertising on these sites is: "More of this please". So that's what they get: nonstop stories about how the gays are taking over America, and converting America's children. As I"ve said many times, if you click on stories that tell you water is wet? You're gonna see a whole mess of "water is wet" stories on your media feed and advertisements. This, obviously, creates a self-fulfilling prophecy were TrumpFans keep reading about "the gays" and "trans people' day after day after day. They wind up thinking: OMG! Trans is taking over the world!
Yeah, no. They're not.
And notice no one does anything to fix this simple athletic situation? I'm 100% for making trans males compete with males. They still get to compete, right? So what's the problem? There isn't one. Fake problem solved. They don't fix this stuff for the same reason they will never fix immigration: they want a permanently angry base to keep voting for them over these fake issues. And yep, the Dems do this one, too.
And really, how many HS competitions are inherently unfair? Ever see a Basketball team of sub- 6 foot kids have to play against a lineup of 6'3"+ teams? In what world is that fair? Or how about HS lacrosse teams that can recruit players facing public school teams that are stuck with whomever lives in the school district. Ask a Republican if they think one lesson we should teach kids is: life is unfair? You'd get 99% responding: you bet we should teach kids that. So where'd that attitude run off to when it comes to a handful of trans kids in sports? But I digress, and agree that trans-males should compete with males.
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:13 pm
One for instance--go survey female athletes and ask them how they feel about being forced to compete against biological males. I don't think folks realize the deep seated, seething and festering resentment there is in this country toward some of the liberal agendas being jammed down their throats. They see Trump as their only hope for respite.
Untrue. They see all REPUBLICANS as respite from this. You're explaining here why these voters vote for Republicans, not why they nominate and vote for Trump every chance they've had over 12 years now.
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2024 4:13 pm
Whether they are misinformed, closed-minded, white trash, un or under-educated, whatever--they're enraged. And if Trump is the only candidate on the Republican ticket come November, they'll vote for him again by their tens of millions as they did in 2020. I have no stinky idea what will happen in November, but this country may very well get another rude surprise.
I am 100% of the belief that Trump will win.
The problem that Trumpfans that aren't rich don't get is: just like last time, Trump will shovel more money to the libs and lefties that you just told me these voters despise. Working class Trumpsters will fall further behind as Trump's ACTUAL policies pump more money to the top 20% earners who are in these dreaded liberal Universities......Ivies, top Public schools, etc. The nation's top 20% earners vote Dem. And you know as well as I do that the gap between rich and poor has been put on steroids in America.
At SOME POINT, Republicans need to help the working class. Can you name one single Federal R policy from the last 24 years that has economially helped the American working class in a material and sustainable way? I can't. Their base keeps falling further and further behind.
THIS is why Trump is a problem, imho. Don't care about his bluster, or appeal to shiny yet pointless culture war nonsense. Not only does the POTUS not control American culture in a meaningful way (it's the other way around), "sticking it to the gays" doesn't put food on a TrumpVoter's table, nor educate or train their kids for 21st century jobs.
The issue the R Party is confronted with this: they TRIED trickle down, and low taxes for the rich. And the rich, by and large, are more liberal and educated that the R Base. They have to (gasp!) try liberal policies that have worked well for every other 1st world nation on earth: more fair taxation. Free Education and training for the working class. And most of all? Free health care, as we're watching the life expectancy and every other health metric for the poor fall off a cliff, right before our eyes.
What's the Republican plan? No one can tell me. Not the voters. Not their national leaders. In short: when the circus is over for the working class, these folks walk back to their cars? The reality is that the American working class is F'ed.
Appreciate the discourse.