ggait wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:24 pm
FNC talking a lot right now about…wait for it…
Hunter Biden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's like watching a toddler try and pronounce the word "biochemistry".
How stupid do you have to be to tell the world that prosecuting Trump for breaking laws is bad and corrupt and "banana republica"....while in the same breath....... prosecuting Hunter and having the DoJ and FBI look for financial ties to Joe and corruption is sooper-perfect-awesome?
JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:11 pm
Verdict is in. Guilty apparently. Sounds like the Judge will confine Trump to House Arrest, not sure he is seeing the inside of prison cell.
Joe
Well, this just made America a whole lot more complicated.
What will Republican leaders and their voters do?
Did many voters think he wasn't going to get convicted? Certainly sounds like Trump accepted the fact as the trail wore on.
Joe
You tell me. I'm not a Republican. Can't speak for them.
The Foxnews.com picture and headshot next to large font "Guilty" feels like a shot across Trump's bow.... will R's put up a felon as their leader?
Or will they play the "let's wait two years for an appeal, this doesn't count" card on 57 separate counts?
I have no clue.
Yup, I agree with you. The crazy part is that until he is actually sentenced, this doesn't hurt his chances for election in November. I don't think today's ruling was surprising.
Joe
I will add: the best possible thing Biden could do is pardon him immediately. This isn't direct and dangerous election interference like GA. This was an utterly pointless cover up that served zero purpose, imho.
Pardon him. Let the Republican voters decide if they want to nominate a convicted felon as their leader, and the leader of our country.
JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:11 pm
Verdict is in. Guilty apparently. Sounds like the Judge will confine Trump to House Arrest, not sure he is seeing the inside of prison cell.
Joe
I'm not so sure he'll be confined to House Arrest while awaiting appeal, which is undoubtedly coming. I think Judge will probably have him released on his own recognizance, maybe under Secret Service supervision? maybe with ankle bracelet, surrender of passport?
I also think that if Biden wins, he'll pardon Trump on this one, 'for the good of healing the country'.
JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:11 pm
Verdict is in. Guilty apparently. Sounds like the Judge will confine Trump to House Arrest, not sure he is seeing the inside of prison cell.
Joe
Well, this just made America a whole lot more complicated.
What will Republican leaders and their voters do?
Did many voters think he wasn't going to get convicted? Certainly sounds like Trump accepted the fact as the trail wore on.
Joe
You tell me. I'm not a Republican. Can't speak for them.
The Foxnews.com picture and headshot next to large font "Guilty" feels like a shot across Trump's bow.... will R's put up a felon as their leader?
Or will they play the "let's wait two years for an appeal, this doesn't count" card on 57 separate counts?
I have no clue.
Yup, I agree with you. The crazy part is that until he is actually sentenced, this doesn't hurt his chances for election in November. I don't think today's ruling was surprising.
Joe
I will add: the best possible thing Biden could do is pardon him immediately. This isn't direct and dangerous election interference like GA. This was an utterly pointless cover up that served zero purpose, imho.
Pardon him. Let the Republican voters decide if they want to nominate a convicted felon as their leader, and the leader of our country.
That might be the smart political play, do it now instead of waiting. I do think it will ultimately happen.
I disagree that it didn't matter, though. The election was won by an incredibly slim margin in a couple of states, so it's entirely possible that this story would have have swamped the attention even in the face of the Comey mouthing off, and moved the needle just enough to have avoided this nightmare altogether.
JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:11 pm
Verdict is in. Guilty apparently. Sounds like the Judge will confine Trump to House Arrest, not sure he is seeing the inside of prison cell.
Joe
Well, this just made America a whole lot more complicated.
What will Republican leaders and their voters do?
Did many voters think he wasn't going to get convicted? Certainly sounds like Trump accepted the fact as the trail wore on.
Joe
You tell me. I'm not a Republican. Can't speak for them.
The Foxnews.com picture and headshot next to large font "Guilty" feels like a shot across Trump's bow.... will R's put up a felon as their leader?
Or will they play the "let's wait two years for an appeal, this doesn't count" card on 57 separate counts?
I have no clue.
Yup, I agree with you. The crazy part is that until he is actually sentenced, this doesn't hurt his chances for election in November. I don't think today's ruling was surprising.
Joe
I will add: the best possible thing Biden could do is pardon him immediately. This isn't direct and dangerous election interference like GA. This was an utterly pointless cover up that served zero purpose, imho.
Pardon him. Let the Republican voters decide if they want to nominate a convicted felon as their leader, and the leader of our country.
That might be the smart political play, do it now instead of waiting. I do think it will ultimately happen.
I disagree that it didn't matter, though. The election was won by an incredibly slim margin in a couple of states, so it's entirely possible that this story would have have swamped the attention even in the face of the Comey mouthing off, and moved the needle just enough to have avoided this nightmare altogether.
But it's very past tense.
I'm very confident my fellow Americans knew EXACTLY what they were voting for in Trump. I don't think this would have changed one vote.
My opinion, of course. And even if it would? Dispel the idea of the Federal "banana republic" when it comes to what are in my opinion, petty matters like this one. He didn't hurt anyone, or stiff a charity. Pardon him, and lets move on. Take the higher road.....
JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:11 pm
Verdict is in. Guilty apparently. Sounds like the Judge will confine Trump to House Arrest, not sure he is seeing the inside of prison cell.
Joe
Well, this just made America a whole lot more complicated.
What will Republican leaders and their voters do?
Did many voters think he wasn't going to get convicted? Certainly sounds like Trump accepted the fact as the trail wore on.
Joe
You tell me. I'm not a Republican. Can't speak for them.
The Foxnews.com picture and headshot next to large font "Guilty" feels like a shot across Trump's bow.... will R's put up a felon as their leader?
Or will they play the "let's wait two years for an appeal, this doesn't count" card on 57 separate counts?
I have no clue.
Yup, I agree with you. The crazy part is that until he is actually sentenced, this doesn't hurt his chances for election in November. I don't think today's ruling was surprising.
Joe
I will add: the best possible thing Biden could do is pardon him immediately. This isn't direct and dangerous election interference like GA. This was an utterly pointless cover up that served zero purpose, imho.
Pardon him. Let the Republican voters decide if they want to nominate a convicted felon as their leader, and the leader of our country.
That might be the smart political play, do it now instead of waiting. I do think it will ultimately happen.
I disagree that it didn't matter, though. The election was won by an incredibly slim margin in a couple of states, so it's entirely possible that this story would have have swamped the attention even in the face of the Comey mouthing off, and moved the needle just enough to have avoided this nightmare altogether.
But it's very past tense.
President Biden cannot pardon the state crimes of which Trump was convicted. Presidential pardon power only extends to “Offenses against the United States” … violations of federal law.
Besides, I think history is coming around to the view that Ford’s pardon of Nixon was a well-intentioned but damaging mistake. Nixon should have been indicted, tried, and if convicted, should have served prison time.
There is no equitable reason to pardon Trump. It would be a colossal mistake to pardon him.
ggait wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:24 pm
FNC talking a lot right now about…wait for it…
Hunter Biden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's like watching a toddler try and pronounce the word "biochemistry".
How stupid do you have to be to tell the world that prosecuting Trump for breaking laws is bad and corrupt and "banana republica"....while in the same breath....... prosecuting Hunter and having the DoJ and FBI look for financial ties to Joe and corruption is sooper-perfect-awesome?
So tired of how stupid our nation has become.
Trump is a lifelong criminal. Had he not been President nobody would be cheering him on. Cult of personality.
JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:11 pm
Verdict is in. Guilty apparently. Sounds like the Judge will confine Trump to House Arrest, not sure he is seeing the inside of prison cell.
Joe
Well, this just made America a whole lot more complicated.
What will Republican leaders and their voters do?
Did many voters think he wasn't going to get convicted? Certainly sounds like Trump accepted the fact as the trail wore on.
Joe
You tell me. I'm not a Republican. Can't speak for them.
The Foxnews.com picture and headshot next to large font "Guilty" feels like a shot across Trump's bow.... will R's put up a felon as their leader?
Or will they play the "let's wait two years for an appeal, this doesn't count" card on 57 separate counts?
I have no clue.
Yup, I agree with you. The crazy part is that until he is actually sentenced, this doesn't hurt his chances for election in November. I don't think today's ruling was surprising.
Joe
I will add: the best possible thing Biden could do is pardon him immediately. This isn't direct and dangerous election interference like GA. This was an utterly pointless cover up that served zero purpose, imho.
Pardon him. Let the Republican voters decide if they want to nominate a convicted felon as their leader, and the leader of our country.
That might be the smart political play, do it now instead of waiting. I do think it will ultimately happen.
I disagree that it didn't matter, though. The election was won by an incredibly slim margin in a couple of states, so it's entirely possible that this story would have have swamped the attention even in the face of the Comey mouthing off, and moved the needle just enough to have avoided this nightmare altogether.
But it's very past tense.
President Biden cannot pardon the state crimes of which Trump was convicted. Presidential pardon power only extends to “Offenses against the United States” … violations of federal law.
Besides, I think history is coming around to the view that Ford’s pardon of Nixon was a well-intentioned but damaging mistake. Nixon should have been indicted, tried, and if convicted, should have served prison time.
There is no equitable reason to pardon Trump. It would be a colossal mistake to pardon him.
JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:11 pm
Verdict is in. Guilty apparently. Sounds like the Judge will confine Trump to House Arrest, not sure he is seeing the inside of prison cell.
Joe
Well, this just made America a whole lot more complicated.
What will Republican leaders and their voters do?
Did many voters think he wasn't going to get convicted? Certainly sounds like Trump accepted the fact as the trail wore on.
Joe
You tell me. I'm not a Republican. Can't speak for them.
The Foxnews.com picture and headshot next to large font "Guilty" feels like a shot across Trump's bow.... will R's put up a felon as their leader?
Or will they play the "let's wait two years for an appeal, this doesn't count" card on 57 separate counts?
I have no clue.
Yup, I agree with you. The crazy part is that until he is actually sentenced, this doesn't hurt his chances for election in November. I don't think today's ruling was surprising.
Joe
I will add: the best possible thing Biden could do is pardon him immediately. This isn't direct and dangerous election interference like GA. This was an utterly pointless cover up that served zero purpose, imho.
Pardon him. Let the Republican voters decide if they want to nominate a convicted felon as their leader, and the leader of our country.
That might be the smart political play, do it now instead of waiting. I do think it will ultimately happen.
I disagree that it didn't matter, though. The election was won by an incredibly slim margin in a couple of states, so it's entirely possible that this story would have have swamped the attention even in the face of the Comey mouthing off, and moved the needle just enough to have avoided this nightmare altogether.
But it's very past tense.
I'm very confident my fellow Americans knew EXACTLY what they were voting for in Trump. I don't think this would have changed one vote.
My opinion, of course. And even if it would? Dispel the idea of the Federal "banana republic" when it comes to what are in my opinion, petty matters like this one. He didn't hurt anyone, or stiff a charity. Pardon him, and lets move on. Take the higher road.....
Trump doesn’t even express any remorse. Why should he receive a pardon?
Pardoning him would also violate a foundational pillar of American democracy: NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:11 pm
Verdict is in. Guilty apparently. Sounds like the Judge will confine Trump to House Arrest, not sure he is seeing the inside of prison cell.
Joe
Well, this just made America a whole lot more complicated.
What will Republican leaders and their voters do?
Did many voters think he wasn't going to get convicted? Certainly sounds like Trump accepted the fact as the trail wore on.
Joe
You tell me. I'm not a Republican. Can't speak for them.
The Foxnews.com picture and headshot next to large font "Guilty" feels like a shot across Trump's bow.... will R's put up a felon as their leader?
Or will they play the "let's wait two years for an appeal, this doesn't count" card on 57 separate counts?
I have no clue.
Yup, I agree with you. The crazy part is that until he is actually sentenced, this doesn't hurt his chances for election in November. I don't think today's ruling was surprising.
Joe
I will add: the best possible thing Biden could do is pardon him immediately. This isn't direct and dangerous election interference like GA. This was an utterly pointless cover up that served zero purpose, imho.
Pardon him. Let the Republican voters decide if they want to nominate a convicted felon as their leader, and the leader of our country.
That might be the smart political play, do it now instead of waiting. I do think it will ultimately happen.
I disagree that it didn't matter, though. The election was won by an incredibly slim margin in a couple of states, so it's entirely possible that this story would have have swamped the attention even in the face of the Comey mouthing off, and moved the needle just enough to have avoided this nightmare altogether.
But it's very past tense.
I'm very confident my fellow Americans knew EXACTLY what they were voting for in Trump. I don't think this would have changed one vote.
My opinion, of course. And even if it would? Dispel the idea of the Federal "banana republic" when it comes to what are in my opinion, petty matters like this one. He didn't hurt anyone, or stiff a charity. Pardon him, and lets move on. Take the higher road.....
Trump doesn’t even express any remorse. Why should he receive a pardon?
Pardoning him would also violate a foundational pillar of American democracy: NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
DocBarrister
We've been pardoning folks since the days of GW. He pardoned the leaders of the Whiskey Rebellion. If it's a pillar of democracy? Why is the power written into the Constitution, Doc.
(it's not a pillar, my man. Pardons are a pillar of America, like them or not)
JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:11 pm
Verdict is in. Guilty apparently. Sounds like the Judge will confine Trump to House Arrest, not sure he is seeing the inside of prison cell.
Joe
I'm not so sure he'll be confined to House Arrest while awaiting appeal, which is undoubtedly coming. I think Judge will probably have him released on his own recognizance, maybe under Secret Service supervision? maybe with ankle bracelet, surrender of passport?
I also think that if Biden wins, he'll pardon Trump on this one, 'for the good of healing the country'.
Maybe not on the other cases, let them play out.
healing the country? i don’t see that happening. biden has already started down the path of an authoritarian by ignoring the SCOTUS on student loan forgiveness. his admin is now trying to dictate which cases SCOTUS members can take part in. i think it’s more likely Biden cancels the upcoming election and calls a state of emergency since the goo has now nominated a felon.
JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:11 pm
Verdict is in. Guilty apparently. Sounds like the Judge will confine Trump to House Arrest, not sure he is seeing the inside of prison cell.
Joe
Well, this just made America a whole lot more complicated.
What will Republican leaders and their voters do?
Did many voters think he wasn't going to get convicted? Certainly sounds like Trump accepted the fact as the trail wore on.
Joe
You tell me. I'm not a Republican. Can't speak for them.
The Foxnews.com picture and headshot next to large font "Guilty" feels like a shot across Trump's bow.... will R's put up a felon as their leader?
Or will they play the "let's wait two years for an appeal, this doesn't count" card on 57 separate counts?
I have no clue.
Yup, I agree with you. The crazy part is that until he is actually sentenced, this doesn't hurt his chances for election in November. I don't think today's ruling was surprising.
Joe
I will add: the best possible thing Biden could do is pardon him immediately. This isn't direct and dangerous election interference like GA. This was an utterly pointless cover up that served zero purpose, imho.
Pardon him. Let the Republican voters decide if they want to nominate a convicted felon as their leader, and the leader of our country.
That might be the smart political play, do it now instead of waiting. I do think it will ultimately happen.
I disagree that it didn't matter, though. The election was won by an incredibly slim margin in a couple of states, so it's entirely possible that this story would have have swamped the attention even in the face of the Comey mouthing off, and moved the needle just enough to have avoided this nightmare altogether.
But it's very past tense.
I'm very confident my fellow Americans knew EXACTLY what they were voting for in Trump. I don't think this would have changed one vote.
My opinion, of course. And even if it would? Dispel the idea of the Federal "banana republic" when it comes to what are in my opinion, petty matters like this one. He didn't hurt anyone, or stiff a charity. Pardon him, and lets move on. Take the higher road.....
Trump doesn’t even express any remorse. Why should he receive a pardon?
Pardoning him would also violate a foundational pillar of American democracy: NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
DocBarrister
We've been pardoning folks since the days of GW. He pardoned the leaders of the Whiskey Rebellion. If it's a pillar of democracy? Why is the power written into the Constitution, Doc.
(it's not a pillar, my man. Pardons are a pillar of America, like them or not)
The presidential pardon power is a check on the power of the judiciary. Part of our system of checks and balances.
Most presidential pardons are granted to individuals who have already served their time and lived exemplary lives since; or to people shown to be wrongly convicted; or in situations where there were clear violations of rights or judicial procedure.
Trump doesn’t meet any of those criteria. Pardoning him would be a misguided political decision.
That would be wholly inconsistent with purpose of the pardon power, whether gubernatorial or presidential.
DocBarrister
Last edited by DocBarrister on Thu May 30, 2024 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 5:11 pm
Verdict is in. Guilty apparently. Sounds like the Judge will confine Trump to House Arrest, not sure he is seeing the inside of prison cell.
Joe
Well, this just made America a whole lot more complicated.
What will Republican leaders and their voters do?
Did many voters think he wasn't going to get convicted? Certainly sounds like Trump accepted the fact as the trail wore on.
Joe
You tell me. I'm not a Republican. Can't speak for them.
The Foxnews.com picture and headshot next to large font "Guilty" feels like a shot across Trump's bow.... will R's put up a felon as their leader?
Or will they play the "let's wait two years for an appeal, this doesn't count" card on 57 separate counts?
I have no clue.
Yup, I agree with you. The crazy part is that until he is actually sentenced, this doesn't hurt his chances for election in November. I don't think today's ruling was surprising.
Joe
I will add: the best possible thing Biden could do is pardon him immediately. This isn't direct and dangerous election interference like GA. This was an utterly pointless cover up that served zero purpose, imho.
Pardon him. Let the Republican voters decide if they want to nominate a convicted felon as their leader, and the leader of our country.
That might be the smart political play, do it now instead of waiting. I do think it will ultimately happen.
I disagree that it didn't matter, though. The election was won by an incredibly slim margin in a couple of states, so it's entirely possible that this story would have have swamped the attention even in the face of the Comey mouthing off, and moved the needle just enough to have avoided this nightmare altogether.
But it's very past tense.
I'm very confident my fellow Americans knew EXACTLY what they were voting for in Trump. I don't think this would have changed one vote.
My opinion, of course. And even if it would? Dispel the idea of the Federal "banana republic" when it comes to what are in my opinion, petty matters like this one. He didn't hurt anyone, or stiff a charity. Pardon him, and lets move on. Take the higher road.....
Trump doesn’t even express any remorse. Why should he receive a pardon?
Pardoning him would also violate a foundational pillar of American democracy: NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.
DocBarrister
It’s a moot point because a president can’t pardon a state conviction, but if he could it would be a terrible idea for the future. Had Ford not pardoned Nixon we wouldn’t be having a presidential immunity case sitting on the SCOTUS’ docket right now.
This afternoon twelve New Yorkers made America great again. Whoop! Whoop!
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 6:16 pm
Most presidential pardons are granted to individuals who have already served their time and lived exemplary lives since; or to people shown to be wrongly convicted; or in situations where there were clear violations of rights or judicial procedure.
Doc. You're telling me that you studied law, and that you don't know that Federal and State pardon are, and have been, handed out left and right for less than noble reasons.
You can not like the idea of pardoning Trump, that's cool. But you don't have to sell me a bag of nonsense to make your point.
Want me to list the last 20 years of nonsense-lame-ethically-questionable pardons from all Presidents, regardless of party?
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 6:16 pm
Most presidential pardons are granted to individuals who have already served their time and lived exemplary lives since; or to people shown to be wrongly convicted; or in situations where there were clear violations of rights or judicial procedure.
Doc. You're telling me that you studied law, and that you don't know that Federal and State pardon are, and have been, handed out left and right for less than noble reasons.
You can not like the idea of pardoning Trump, that's cool. But you don't have to sell me a bag of nonsense to make your point.
Want me to list the last 20 years of nonsense-lame-ethically-questionable pardons from all Presidents, regardless of party?
+10000. A bag of nonsense is a good way to put it!
Don’t know New York pardon law, but the next time there is a Republican governor, if that ever happens, Trump might get a pardon. Might be posthumous. Of course, he will have to await the conclusion of Governor Bragg’s term.
