Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:08 pm
Some people don’t get industry vs extracurricular51percentcorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:06 pmBecause they were built for football a multibillion dollar industry
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 1:11 pm
If you take that approach you become a “revenue shop” vs a resilient, through cycle profitable enterprise. Of course production managers want unlimited spending and zero accountability. It’s the upper level managers that have to cut through that and consider long term cost - value proposition.
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:06 pm
Not only does the President of Rutgers know what lacrosse is, he's a fan. I was next to him on the sidelines for the Penn St. game last season. He probably hasn't jumped that high when Ross Scott scored the game winner in OT since he was at Stanford.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:50 am He's not suiting up in pads for practice but Daniels probably thinks about lacrosse more than 99% of university presidents. I'm not sure the president at Rutgers even knows the school has a lacrosse team.
51 asked for concrete examples of what value adds (in terms of wins and losses) a president could be doing that he isn't and Sag responded with more drivel. 51 has been asking this question for years now and has yet to receive a coherent response from anyone with actual real-world examples and I think that tells you all you need to know about it. Again — Ronny D was an active proponent of the B1G move — you can disagree with the decision but that does not show "ennui" on his part. Quite the opposite.
The teams during the first half of Daniels' tenure — roughly 2010 to 2015 — were quite good. I know, I was on campus at the time and went to every game. The '11 and '12 teams in particular were I believe ranked #1 in the country at several points. 2011 team was the #3 seed in the NCAA tournament but flopped against Denver in the quarterfinals. 2012 team was the #2 seed in the tournament but once again laid an absolute egg against the Terps in the quarters. Was that Ron Daniels' fault?
The 2014 team was pretty good too — thumped UVA at Klockner in the 1st round before losing to an all-time great Duke team in the quarters. And then of course you had the miracle 2015 run to the Final Four. 2016 is when things really started to slow down — injuries played a part but you could feel in realtime that the program was losing steam — struggling just to make the playoffs and then routinely getting trounced in the first round no matter the opponent. 2018 was a bit better, but 2019 was more meh and then we all know what happened in 2020. The COVID stoppage prevented that season from being even more worse.
Long story short — there have been plenty of good men's lacrosse teams while Daniels has been president. Teams that looked at times like legitimate national title contenders that simply choked in the playoffs. There is no reason a #2 seed Hopkins team should only muster 5 goals against what was an unseeded Maryland team in the 2012 QFs. The Terps barely snuck by Lehigh the week before and then got trounced by Duke the week after. It was a far cry from some other UMD teams we've seen. The Jays were heavy favorites for that one and sh*t the bed. Guess the president should have held a pep rally.
Great to have President Holloway fully behind the the lacrosse program. Certainly doesn't hurt that his cousin is Jules Heningburg and he himself was a college athlete.
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:24 pm
The margins at the highest levels of D1 lacrosse are small. If you don't think things like ease of travel and having great facilities to practice in matter, well, you are in the extreme minority compared the professionals in the business.a fan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:07 pmThe wins you are claiming teams are getting because of "indoor facilities and flying charters to games".1766 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 5:17 pmWhat scoreboard?a fan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 3:49 pmScoreboard says you're wrong.1766 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:51 pmBuild it and they will come. Would you go to a school pitching win something first then maybe we will build you an indoor facility or would you go to a school that shows you an indoor facility and flies charter to games now?jhu06 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 1:34 pmThey haven't earned a bubble or the flight stuff quint wants. Do something on the field to validate the last investment first.1766 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:47 pmEvery B1G team has an indoor practice facility except Hopkins. There isn't that much difference in weather where it wouldn't be valuable to the student athletes who practice every day. If nothing else, it says your schools is committed to providing you with the best resources they can. Surely Hopkins with its influential and wealthy alumni can build a practice bubble.OCanada wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:59 pm No, the bubble should not be a reward for past excellence. It should be an investment that will provide a return on thr investment.
Daniels has not supported the lacrosse team as strongly as past presidents. His is a contributing factor like other factors already mentioned and some i have not seen yet e.g. location etc.
Hopkins is in the B1G. The other members of the conference have far more resources than it does. I expect over time this situation will prove disadvantageous.
If you take trips to each B1G school you will see facilities that are exceptional. An indoor practice facility is part of that.
Playing spartan carrot games with recruits doesn't exactly seem like a great strategy. From a practical matter, having an indoor facility and flying charter to games directly helps winning.
They're not there. You KNOW they're not there.
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:28 pm
Rutgers has numerous other fields besides the stadium field and Yurcak to practice on. Two grass fields and and a turf field they can use whenever they desire, not to mention the indoor facility which will soon be all theirs. Once the stadium is complete they won't even need those other fields outside of the indoor facility or the few off practices if they are playing a grass game.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:45 amEven if it's true that the other members of the conference have "far more resources" than Hopkins (extremely debatable as it pertains to men's lacrosse — did you know, for instance, that Rutgers struggles to even get practice time on their home field, and that they also aren't allowed to practice on the soccer field until April, which is why they badly need their own venue?) how would that be any different if we were not in the conference? The other B1G teams were going to exist with or without us joining. The only real difference is we'd be an independent and not have the chance at the automatic qualifer which completely saved the seasons in 2015 and 2019. Imagine the last decade without a B1G tournament. Yikes. And who knows if we'd have been able to keep the rivalry with Maryland as an independent. What's the point of staying independent if you can't keep some of your longstanding traditions? The B1G has been good for the program and the evidence that the other teams are just one day going to leave us in the dust looks thinner and thinner with each passing year that that does not happen.
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:36 pm
A new lacrosse only stadium will be built. It's all being worked out behind the scenes now. Soccer will use Yurcak and the lacrosse team will have their own stadium. Plans look very interesting. Soccer didn't big league anyone. Football? Yea, they run every school. But they are also a big reason the lacrosse stadium is getting built.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 2:49 pmWhat about getting little brother'd by the soccer team? Does that directly help winning? Because I'm hearing that Rutgers lax has asked the school to add turf to the soccer stadium so that both programs can use it, but because soccer prefers grass, the field is staying grass and the lax team remains sh*t out of luck. Have also heard the football team is not fond of lacrosse playing in SHI Stadium. Point is, we all have our battles, don't we.
For a niche sport like lacrosse, there are plenty of benefits to being the big fish in a smaller pond, as Hopkins is. Pros and cons to everything. Things like the exclusive ESPN deal, among other examples, send plenty enough of a signal to recruits.
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:02 pm
How are Cornell's facilities compared with Rutgers?And how did that work out on Memorial Day weekend? Scoreboard.
I'd ask the same for Big Ten teams like UMich and Penn State, but....they weren't taking questions during the D1 tournament. They had already gone home for the summer.
These things are all relative. Nice facilities are enough. You're telling us that sooper-awesome locker and weight rooms lead to W's. Nope.
Have you seen Northwestern's BigTen facilities? World class. Better than pro sports.
And in 2022? I almost had as many wins as their football team did, and I graduated from college about 30 years ago.
They finished 1-11. So no, these facilities don't lead to wins. Sorry, it doesn't work like that.
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:28 pm
Agreed; nice locker rooms, fancy weight rooms, etc, girls waving pom moms...they impress the sophomore in HS, less so the serious student-athlete as he matures (ok, geneva, the pom moms can still impress).
That said, it's good to know that the school pays attention to your program, is supportive of the time you need in the weight room, with the trainers, on the field, working with your academic schedule. But it's not the flash paid for by the football program that tells you that. It's the sweat you see coming off the guys training, the attention you see from staff, etc...
The factors that do matter to the serious student-athlete are far, far more about the guys he's going to be playing with, the coaches who are going to be mentoring and guiding him, the sense of the dynamic of the program being on the rise or already an elite competitor...and the off-field opportunities to grow, learn, have fun.
That said, it's good to know that the school pays attention to your program, is supportive of the time you need in the weight room, with the trainers, on the field, working with your academic schedule. But it's not the flash paid for by the football program that tells you that. It's the sweat you see coming off the guys training, the attention you see from staff, etc...
The factors that do matter to the serious student-athlete are far, far more about the guys he's going to be playing with, the coaches who are going to be mentoring and guiding him, the sense of the dynamic of the program being on the rise or already an elite competitor...and the off-field opportunities to grow, learn, have fun.
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:34 pm
Clearly there are other factors. Facilities alone don't grant wins. Neither does traveling charter. But it sure helps. You ever see the Cowboys plane? Almost every big conference school has better facilities than pro teams. They put more money into buying players than facilities. That of course may be where college goes with NIL. But it's clearly not there yet.a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:02 pm
And how did that work out on Memorial Day weekend? Scoreboard.
I'd ask the same for Big Ten teams like UMich and Penn State, but....they weren't taking questions during the D1 tournament. They had already gone home for the summer.
These things are all relative. Nice facilities are enough. You're telling us that sooper-awesome locker and weight rooms lead to W's. Nope.
Have you seen Northwestern's BigTen facilities? World class. Better than pro sports.
And in 2022? I almost had as many wins as their football team did, and I graduated from college about 30 years ago.
They finished 1-11. So no, these facilities don't lead to wins. Sorry, it doesn't work like that.
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:35 pm
Have you seen the girls of the SEC?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:28 pm Agreed; nice locker rooms, fancy weight rooms, etc, girls waving pom moms...they impress the sophomore in HS, less so the serious student-athlete as he matures (ok, geneva, the pom moms can still impress).
That said, it's good to know that the school pays attention to your program, is supportive of the time you need in the weight room, with the trainers, on the field, working with your academic schedule. But it's not the flash paid for by the football program that tells you that. It's the sweat you see coming off the guys training, the attention you see from staff, etc...
The factors that do matter to the serious student-athlete are far, far more about the guys he's going to be playing with, the coaches who are going to be mentoring and guiding him, the sense of the dynamic of the program being on the rise or already an elite competitor...and the off-field opportunities to grow, learn, have fun.
Then there’s Rutgers
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/ ... ontent=amp
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:39 pm
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:13 pm
Actions have consequences that can and in this instance did ripple out for years. Please stop with the exaggeration the hazing was not a threat to anyone’s life or even a danger to safety. It was harmless. I don’t know all lax alums buu i don’t know one that had a problem with it Daniels has a gross ocer reaction and made a bad decision which he walked back. Had he taken the time to look deeper into it and consider the ramifications it might not ever have happened.51percentcorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:17 am Well at leKey phrase - as with most of your posts "Don't know"Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:56 am We don't know all the details, but irl, to succeed at just about anything requires support from the top. Did Hop not get some recruits because their standards were too high? We don't know.
Did Hopkins have multiple #1 ranked recruiting classes loaded with supposed 5*s during Daniels tenure? Yes. You lament that Hopkins isn't geting 5 stars these days - so what happened?
Is this the same Petro you have repeatedly skewered on this forum or a different guy?Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:56 am Don't know.... Given the chance, I'm sure Petro or Benson could probably write a book about the subject.
What iceberg? Hazing is a serious issue - people have died at various institutions. Completely appropriate for a University President to look into a hazing issue - particularly after it crosses his desk. You may not like his initial position - you may think he was completely off base - fine - again it was not DP's finest hour. As far as I can tell - this is the only example of his direct involvement - the rest is he doesn't do anything - ennui. When Jerry died he authorized up to $500,000 in matching funds for the foundation which funds a Hopkins lacrosse scholarship - is that OK?Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:56 am The fact that Daniels got into it with the Head Lacrosse Coach speaks volumes to me. That should never ever happen. I suspect that's the tip of the iceberg.
Presidents have performed many different actions to support the program and were believed by the program to be part of their value proposition.
It seems when there is a blinding flash of the the response it too often to define it away instead of deal with it
All four Baltimore universities’ presidents, ADs and coaches believed they needed to upgrade their facilities and did. Hopkins upgraded its locker room based on recruit feedback. Hopkins will always find a team but the pool of potential recruits is increasing from top to bottom. We have lost recruits bcs a recruit spent time with Coach K or snother big name outside the lax program, we lost recruiting battles bcs several recruits felt they woukd have to work harder to stay enrolled compared to their other possibles, we lost recruits bcs they wanted a big athletic school atmosphere. Some bcs they did not like the Baltimore location. Until Bloomburg’s gift cost was an issue.
Daniels only has to please the Board. He does not have to put himself out to make the lax program nationally competitive and does not. The longer he has been here the greater the effect.
I am interested in knowing more detail about support for the claim 06 made about recruiting.
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:34 pm
Come on man!! That was hysterical!! I didn’t expect to see that!!Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:35 pmHave you seen the girls of the SEC?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:28 pm Agreed; nice locker rooms, fancy weight rooms, etc, girls waving pom moms...they impress the sophomore in HS, less so the serious student-athlete as he matures (ok, geneva, the pom moms can still impress).
That said, it's good to know that the school pays attention to your program, is supportive of the time you need in the weight room, with the trainers, on the field, working with your academic schedule. But it's not the flash paid for by the football program that tells you that. It's the sweat you see coming off the guys training, the attention you see from staff, etc...
The factors that do matter to the serious student-athlete are far, far more about the guys he's going to be playing with, the coaches who are going to be mentoring and guiding him, the sense of the dynamic of the program being on the rise or already an elite competitor...and the off-field opportunities to grow, learn, have fun.
Then there’s Rutgers
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/ ... ontent=amp
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:38 pm
I did not say the Hopkins incident was a threat to anyone's life - so please stop with that gross exaggeration. I said because hazing had become a "national issue" it was appropriate for Daniels to ask what the heck went on. Again, debate the reaction all you want. I am glad you and your friends think nothing happened. Some disagree
Probably agree with 100% of this - has nothing to do with Daniels unfortunately. Cost still an issue
I don't like to speak for '06 and possibly be grouped in with his takes and theories - most of which I think are from outer space - but I believe he is simply referring to a timeline - if you take 2009 (the worst playoff defeat in Hopkins history to date) and 2010 (the first losing season in 40 years and an even worse loss to Duke in the 1st round) and say that is Post Rabil then the players that comprise those teams were "recruited" prior to 2009 when Beelzebub showed up.
I have no clue what any of this means - riddles wrapped in enigmas with absolutely no specifics
Didn't the most significant upgrade to the weight room and a new scoreboard - and BTW the Cordish Center (I know I know Daniels had no choice) happen under Daniels? Couldn't one realistically make an argument more money has been poured into athletic facilities under his watch?
OCanada wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:13 pm We have lost recruits bcs a recruit spent time with Coach K or snother big name outside the lax program, we lost recruiting battles bcs several recruits felt they woukd have to work harder to stay enrolled compared to their other possibles, we lost recruits bcs they wanted a big athletic school atmosphere. Some bcs they did not like the Baltimore location. Until Bloomburg’s gift cost was an issue.
Probably agree with 100% of this - has nothing to do with Daniels unfortunately. Cost still an issue
I don't like to speak for '06 and possibly be grouped in with his takes and theories - most of which I think are from outer space - but I believe he is simply referring to a timeline - if you take 2009 (the worst playoff defeat in Hopkins history to date) and 2010 (the first losing season in 40 years and an even worse loss to Duke in the 1st round) and say that is Post Rabil then the players that comprise those teams were "recruited" prior to 2009 when Beelzebub showed up.
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:50 pm
Girls at Rutgers are smoking. Compared to Hopkins and Hobart and Mary or whatever that 13th grade school is called? Otherworldly.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:35 pmHave you seen the girls of the SEC?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:28 pm Agreed; nice locker rooms, fancy weight rooms, etc, girls waving pom moms...they impress the sophomore in HS, less so the serious student-athlete as he matures (ok, geneva, the pom moms can still impress).
That said, it's good to know that the school pays attention to your program, is supportive of the time you need in the weight room, with the trainers, on the field, working with your academic schedule. But it's not the flash paid for by the football program that tells you that. It's the sweat you see coming off the guys training, the attention you see from staff, etc...
The factors that do matter to the serious student-athlete are far, far more about the guys he's going to be playing with, the coaches who are going to be mentoring and guiding him, the sense of the dynamic of the program being on the rise or already an elite competitor...and the off-field opportunities to grow, learn, have fun.
Then there’s Rutgers
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/ ... ontent=amp
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:54 pm
I hope that at least made you laugh! My wife did her post doc at Rutgers so I have a fondness for the school.1766 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:50 pmGirls at Rutgers are smoking. Compared to Hopkins and Hobart and Mary or whatever that 13th grade school is called? Otherworldly.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:35 pmHave you seen the girls of the SEC?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:28 pm Agreed; nice locker rooms, fancy weight rooms, etc, girls waving pom moms...they impress the sophomore in HS, less so the serious student-athlete as he matures (ok, geneva, the pom moms can still impress).
That said, it's good to know that the school pays attention to your program, is supportive of the time you need in the weight room, with the trainers, on the field, working with your academic schedule. But it's not the flash paid for by the football program that tells you that. It's the sweat you see coming off the guys training, the attention you see from staff, etc...
The factors that do matter to the serious student-athlete are far, far more about the guys he's going to be playing with, the coaches who are going to be mentoring and guiding him, the sense of the dynamic of the program being on the rise or already an elite competitor...and the off-field opportunities to grow, learn, have fun.
Then there’s Rutgers
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/ ... ontent=amp
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 6:08 pm
I would build on that. Building a state of art facility is no guarantee recruiting will improve. However, if facilities are outside a range of acceptability they can become a drag.
I think there is also a revenue play w increased attendance if done right
I think there is also a revenue play w increased attendance if done right
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:57 pm
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:49 am
Yep1766 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:06 pmNot only does the President of Rutgers know what lacrosse is, he's a fan. I was next to him on the sidelines for the Penn St. game last season. He probably hasn't jumped that high when Ross Scott scored the game winner in OT since he was at Stanford.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:50 am He's not suiting up in pads for practice but Daniels probably thinks about lacrosse more than 99% of university presidents. I'm not sure the president at Rutgers even knows the school has a lacrosse team.
51 asked for concrete examples of what value adds (in terms of wins and losses) a president could be doing that he isn't and Sag responded with more drivel. 51 has been asking this question for years now and has yet to receive a coherent response from anyone with actual real-world examples and I think that tells you all you need to know about it. Again — Ronny D was an active proponent of the B1G move — you can disagree with the decision but that does not show "ennui" on his part. Quite the opposite.
The teams during the first half of Daniels' tenure — roughly 2010 to 2015 — were quite good. I know, I was on campus at the time and went to every game. The '11 and '12 teams in particular were I believe ranked #1 in the country at several points. 2011 team was the #3 seed in the NCAA tournament but flopped against Denver in the quarterfinals. 2012 team was the #2 seed in the tournament but once again laid an absolute egg against the Terps in the quarters. Was that Ron Daniels' fault?
The 2014 team was pretty good too — thumped UVA at Klockner in the 1st round before losing to an all-time great Duke team in the quarters. And then of course you had the miracle 2015 run to the Final Four. 2016 is when things really started to slow down — injuries played a part but you could feel in realtime that the program was losing steam — struggling just to make the playoffs and then routinely getting trounced in the first round no matter the opponent. 2018 was a bit better, but 2019 was more meh and then we all know what happened in 2020. The COVID stoppage prevented that season from being even more worse.
Long story short — there have been plenty of good men's lacrosse teams while Daniels has been president. Teams that looked at times like legitimate national title contenders that simply choked in the playoffs. There is no reason a #2 seed Hopkins team should only muster 5 goals against what was an unseeded Maryland team in the 2012 QFs. The Terps barely snuck by Lehigh the week before and then got trounced by Duke the week after. It was a far cry from some other UMD teams we've seen. The Jays were heavy favorites for that one and sh*t the bed. Guess the president should have held a pep rally.
Great to have President Holloway fully behind the the lacrosse program. Certainly doesn't hurt that his cousin is Jules Heningburg and he himself was a college athlete.
Re: Johns Hopkins 2023
Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:03 pm
Oh, without question.