blah, blah, blah...you guys are a joke...either can't read and/or understand context, or worse, don't give a sh!t. And you wonder why people don't want to engage.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:10 pm+1seacoaster wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:54 pmI preferred the full-throated reply. Thanks!tech37 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:46 pm"No, I don't agree." would have been sufficienta fan wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:40 pmNo, I don't agree. And I doubt you do you in any other instance . We erase history all the time, every day. Doubly so when bad things happen.
-should we leave up all those "whites only" signs at hotels, restaurants and water fountains? Can't erase history, right?
-should we leave up the banners with swastikas on them that were flown in Madison Square Garden before WWII? Can't erase history?
-or how about the World Trade Center? Why'd we clean that up? Leave "history" as is, right?
-at my High School, Columbine, they destroyed the library where many of the kids were killed. We should have left that? That's your position?
You and OS are behaving as if you think that former slaves and their children are the ones who put up those Confederate statues....and that people in 2021 are just being fickle. If you REALLY believe this "history" angle? Take a look at who, when, and why those Confederate statues were installed. It ain't pretty. Heck---- tell this history, as you put it, and post a big sign next to most statues that reads: "white racists paid to put this in at the height of Jim Crow to show black Americans who runs things around here. And the current people of this town still think this monument is a good idea"
And if you still disagree with them being removed, that's cool. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But the reaction you and OS are getting here is because you're behaving as if you don't understand why some Americans don't want to celebrate traitors who tried to dissolve America. Traitors who fought to keep some of your fellow Americans in chains. If that's not what you mean to convey, ok...but I"m telling you, that's the message you're sending.
A very clear, full-throated, thoughtful reply.
It's painful to watch the squirminess of the responses though.
But I'll take a crack at a further clarification by saying, tech, none of your fellow posters would suggest that it's not important to study and understand the lessons of history, all of it, but when you use the language of the hard right, "history...should not be erased" when specifically talking about these sorts of monuments, etc, any rational reader will logically assume that's intentional and quite correctly draw the inference that you think removal of such is 'erasing history'.
Which is total BS.
History ain't erased.
But choices as to who and what to honor are being made every day based on that history...all of that history.
Leaving a statue or a portrait or a name of something in place is a choice, just as it is a choice to change it.
In the first half plus of the last century, a whole lot of choices were made to 'honor' people associated with the Confederacy, often explicitly and always implicitly, designed to intimidate a part of the population of fellow citizens. It was always infused with white supremacist intent or assumptions. In many parts of the country, that intent was supported by a majority of the voting population, certainly by most of those already in power. and others just assumed, "that's the way it is".
Thankfully, the country no longer has a majority that supports that intent, though one can certainly find large pockets of such still today. And thus the backlash to making different choices about what we honor and what we do not is not surprising.
So, tech, how do you choose?
Here's what I reasonably wrote to a fan in my original post which he conveniently edited out...talk about playing some "game":
"After I posted that, you did an immediate turn to discuss statues. Obviously that subject requires nuance/discernment and I'm sure we would find agreement in some, perhaps most instances."
Despite that discreet statement, you dudes forge ahead with diatribes that often inaccurately represent other's opinions
BTW, regarding statues/monuments, which you guys seem obsessed with... on that I'm not sure OS and I agree completely (which is fine of course) but I do agree with a lot of what Kismet (who seems as informed as anyone on here) has posted.