Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:35 pm
^
Same Party, Different House
https://fanlax.com/forum/
... said it once, will say it again. The Israeli's are doing themselves no favors with their attempts to control speech in the US - playing the any speech which is critical of the government is antisemitic, game. They think repeating it and saying it louder will change minds. They are losing the debate and looking like they are just gaslighting the world, the same way as their enemy. They need to STFU!PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:39 pm Pretty bold move.
"An Israeli diplomat tried to persuade a leading New York college to cancel a course about the growing debate over whether the Jewish state practices a form of apartheid in the occupied Palestinian territories.
The Israeli consul for public diplomacy in New York, Yuval Donio-Gideon, took the highly unusual step of contacting Bard College earlier this year to object to the course, Apartheid in Israel-Palestine, on the grounds that it breached the controversial International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism.
When the college defended the course, it came under pressure from pro-Israel groups and from at least one major donor. Robert Epstein, the property developer and co-owner of the Boston Celtics, resigned from Bard’s board of trustees in protest at Bard’s refusal to cancel the subject.
The course was designed and taught by Nathan Thrall, a Jewish American writer and researcher who lives in Jerusalem.
“The Israeli consulate contacted Bard and said they would like the course to be cancelled. There was mention of the IHRA definition of antisemitism which is the standard means of attempting to silence criticism of Israel,” said Thrall."
How about Israel concerns itself with freedom of speech and expression in Israel? Pretty sure we can handle the debate by ourselves, thank you. Epstein didn't like it, so he protested. See how it works?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... eid-debate
I’m in pugilistic mode - but the bell hasn’t quite rung on the round yet. This is a diversion at this point for me when I need mini breaks from work. Can pop in and out while doing the 15 things on my daily work agenda. Stuff is on fire-people should be setting up reservoirs for themselves but they won’t and then they’ll get or complain someone else got a bailout at some point in the next 3-5yrs. This is what 16-18hr days in your 40s looks like Joe. You’ve got about what 7-9yrs so enjoy a world of volatility every 5-10yrs until boomers give up control of the system.JoeMauer89 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:11 pmFFG,Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:39 pmSo I've never discussed an issue.Brooklyn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:22 pmFarfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:46 pm How come your incapable of proving it yourself? Never mind…
Another accusation.
Well, let's put it this way, I agree with Mr Richman. I do not see any reason for dissenting from his well defended thesis at all. However if you feel he is wrong, by all means let's discuss it.
Oh wait. That involves issues. Something so many of you pro war types are incapable of doing since you insist on personalities as opposed to discussing issues because you have no rational basis for your indefensible ideas.
Next ...
Whining about accusations while calling everyone pro war, throwing out silly challenges in the abstract that are petty and referring to everyone as right wingers. But no accusations.. None.
It's a lost cause with that poster. Don't waste your time any further. That poster spends too much perusing various forums on the internet and has completely lost sense of reality.
Joe
You sure told those god damn Israelis. They must be shaking in their boots.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:23 am... said it once, will say it again. The Israeli's are doing themselves no favors with their attempts to control speech in the US - playing the any speech which is critical of the government is antisemitic, game. They think repeating it and saying it louder will change minds. They are losing the debate and looking like they are just gaslighting the world, the same way as their enemy. They need to STFU!PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:39 pm Pretty bold move.
"An Israeli diplomat tried to persuade a leading New York college to cancel a course about the growing debate over whether the Jewish state practices a form of apartheid in the occupied Palestinian territories.
The Israeli consul for public diplomacy in New York, Yuval Donio-Gideon, took the highly unusual step of contacting Bard College earlier this year to object to the course, Apartheid in Israel-Palestine, on the grounds that it breached the controversial International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism.
When the college defended the course, it came under pressure from pro-Israel groups and from at least one major donor. Robert Epstein, the property developer and co-owner of the Boston Celtics, resigned from Bard’s board of trustees in protest at Bard’s refusal to cancel the subject.
The course was designed and taught by Nathan Thrall, a Jewish American writer and researcher who lives in Jerusalem.
“The Israeli consulate contacted Bard and said they would like the course to be cancelled. There was mention of the IHRA definition of antisemitism which is the standard means of attempting to silence criticism of Israel,” said Thrall."
How about Israel concerns itself with freedom of speech and expression in Israel? Pretty sure we can handle the debate by ourselves, thank you. Epstein didn't like it, so he protested. See how it works?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... eid-debate
This was happening with the Israeli govt 5-6yrs ago though wasn’t it? I swear I was reading economist stories pre Covid about Netanyahu becoming authoritarian and trending towards fascist tendencies in the wave that came mid decade with trump. If that’s incorrect and it’s more recent please correct me but this should be be a surprise. It’s the way of the world now. Nobody wants French style pontificating anymore, they want Marquis De Sade and the Guillotine.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:23 am... said it once, will say it again. The Israeli's are doing themselves no favors with their attempts to control speech in the US - playing the any speech which is critical of the government is antisemitic, game. They think repeating it and saying it louder will change minds. They are losing the debate and looking like they are just gaslighting the world, the same way as their enemy. They need to STFU!PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:39 pm Pretty bold move.
"An Israeli diplomat tried to persuade a leading New York college to cancel a course about the growing debate over whether the Jewish state practices a form of apartheid in the occupied Palestinian territories.
The Israeli consul for public diplomacy in New York, Yuval Donio-Gideon, took the highly unusual step of contacting Bard College earlier this year to object to the course, Apartheid in Israel-Palestine, on the grounds that it breached the controversial International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism.
When the college defended the course, it came under pressure from pro-Israel groups and from at least one major donor. Robert Epstein, the property developer and co-owner of the Boston Celtics, resigned from Bard’s board of trustees in protest at Bard’s refusal to cancel the subject.
The course was designed and taught by Nathan Thrall, a Jewish American writer and researcher who lives in Jerusalem.
“The Israeli consulate contacted Bard and said they would like the course to be cancelled. There was mention of the IHRA definition of antisemitism which is the standard means of attempting to silence criticism of Israel,” said Thrall."
How about Israel concerns itself with freedom of speech and expression in Israel? Pretty sure we can handle the debate by ourselves, thank you. Epstein didn't like it, so he protested. See how it works?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... eid-debate
What a coincidence, I hear " that's racist" tossed around everyday in the US. I'm seeing a pattern of hyperbole here.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:44 amThis was happening with the Israeli govt 5-6yrs ago though wasn’t it? I swear I was reading economist stories pre Covid about Netanyahu becoming authoritarian and trending towards fascist tendencies in the wave that came mid decade with trump. If that’s incorrect and it’s more recent please correct me but this should be be a surprise. It’s the way of the world now. Nobody wants French style pontificating anymore, they want Marquis De Sade and the Guillotine.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:23 am... said it once, will say it again. The Israeli's are doing themselves no favors with their attempts to control speech in the US - playing the any speech which is critical of the government is antisemitic, game. They think repeating it and saying it louder will change minds. They are losing the debate and looking like they are just gaslighting the world, the same way as their enemy. They need to STFU!PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:39 pm Pretty bold move.
"An Israeli diplomat tried to persuade a leading New York college to cancel a course about the growing debate over whether the Jewish state practices a form of apartheid in the occupied Palestinian territories.
The Israeli consul for public diplomacy in New York, Yuval Donio-Gideon, took the highly unusual step of contacting Bard College earlier this year to object to the course, Apartheid in Israel-Palestine, on the grounds that it breached the controversial International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism.
When the college defended the course, it came under pressure from pro-Israel groups and from at least one major donor. Robert Epstein, the property developer and co-owner of the Boston Celtics, resigned from Bard’s board of trustees in protest at Bard’s refusal to cancel the subject.
The course was designed and taught by Nathan Thrall, a Jewish American writer and researcher who lives in Jerusalem.
“The Israeli consulate contacted Bard and said they would like the course to be cancelled. There was mention of the IHRA definition of antisemitism which is the standard means of attempting to silence criticism of Israel,” said Thrall."
How about Israel concerns itself with freedom of speech and expression in Israel? Pretty sure we can handle the debate by ourselves, thank you. Epstein didn't like it, so he protested. See how it works?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... eid-debate
Also hasn’t this been the case in the US a lot? I’m surrounded by Jewish family and friends but most by brith and we’re good once they got their barmitsvah cheddar and/or couldn’t go to the Jewish hookup summer camps anymore and otherwise see a synagogue 1x every 12-24mo so not the most passionate except my concert sister. But I see the “that’s anti Semitic” tossed around quickly a lot here in the US.
Coincidences happen all the time. Should go take you’re deed on your home to Turning Stone and deploy a gambling strategy of seeing coincidences.cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:53 amWhat a coincidence, I hear " that's racist" tossed around everyday in the US. I'm seeing a pattern of hyperbole here.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:44 amThis was happening with the Israeli govt 5-6yrs ago though wasn’t it? I swear I was reading economist stories pre Covid about Netanyahu becoming authoritarian and trending towards fascist tendencies in the wave that came mid decade with trump. If that’s incorrect and it’s more recent please correct me but this should be be a surprise. It’s the way of the world now. Nobody wants French style pontificating anymore, they want Marquis De Sade and the Guillotine.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:23 am... said it once, will say it again. The Israeli's are doing themselves no favors with their attempts to control speech in the US - playing the any speech which is critical of the government is antisemitic, game. They think repeating it and saying it louder will change minds. They are losing the debate and looking like they are just gaslighting the world, the same way as their enemy. They need to STFU!PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:39 pm Pretty bold move.
"An Israeli diplomat tried to persuade a leading New York college to cancel a course about the growing debate over whether the Jewish state practices a form of apartheid in the occupied Palestinian territories.
The Israeli consul for public diplomacy in New York, Yuval Donio-Gideon, took the highly unusual step of contacting Bard College earlier this year to object to the course, Apartheid in Israel-Palestine, on the grounds that it breached the controversial International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism.
When the college defended the course, it came under pressure from pro-Israel groups and from at least one major donor. Robert Epstein, the property developer and co-owner of the Boston Celtics, resigned from Bard’s board of trustees in protest at Bard’s refusal to cancel the subject.
The course was designed and taught by Nathan Thrall, a Jewish American writer and researcher who lives in Jerusalem.
“The Israeli consulate contacted Bard and said they would like the course to be cancelled. There was mention of the IHRA definition of antisemitism which is the standard means of attempting to silence criticism of Israel,” said Thrall."
How about Israel concerns itself with freedom of speech and expression in Israel? Pretty sure we can handle the debate by ourselves, thank you. Epstein didn't like it, so he protested. See how it works?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... eid-debate
Also hasn’t this been the case in the US a lot? I’m surrounded by Jewish family and friends but most by brith and we’re good once they got their barmitsvah cheddar and/or couldn’t go to the Jewish hookup summer camps anymore and otherwise see a synagogue 1x every 12-24mo so not the most passionate except my concert sister. But I see the “that’s anti Semitic” tossed around quickly a lot here in the US.
All of these hypothetical scenarios lead strait up to the land of absurdity. The issue at hand is problematic enough as it is.dislaxxic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:36 am Apologies if this got discussed up-thread...
I'm hearing all these Zionist pundits throwing out the "what if Mexico attacked Florida and murdered 1,400 Floridians...would we support a cease-fire with THESE people??" IMO, this is a dangerous, false equivalency. Brushing off criticism of their response strategy with a real red herring.
I'd ask them to carry the metaphor they love all the way out...
If the murderous Mexicans then retreated to, say, Tijuana, a heavily populated urban area that was, say, walled off to prohibit civilians from fleeing...and said murderers were hiding in tunnels under hospitals and schools, governed by a terrorist city council totally separate and apart from the larger Mexican government...that was dedicated to "wiping Florida off the map"...well, what then?? A much more evolved strategy seems very much in order...
Hamas needs to be destroyed and totally marginalized, to be sure. Quickly.
Pounding Gaza to a bloody pulp and murdering innocent civilians is not a viable or moral option. Easy. Soothing to Israeli's that want to wipe Palestinians off the map of the world. Not a solution to this most intractable issue.
..
I'll take that into consideration. The wife and I are going to Del Lago after we eat our surf and turf on Thanksgiving. No deed to the house but we are working making sure when we die there is no more than 5 cents in our bank accounts.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 7:36 amCoincidences happen all the time. Should go take you’re deed on your home to Turning Stone and deploy a gambling strategy of seeing coincidences.cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:53 amWhat a coincidence, I hear " that's racist" tossed around everyday in the US. I'm seeing a pattern of hyperbole here.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:44 amThis was happening with the Israeli govt 5-6yrs ago though wasn’t it? I swear I was reading economist stories pre Covid about Netanyahu becoming authoritarian and trending towards fascist tendencies in the wave that came mid decade with trump. If that’s incorrect and it’s more recent please correct me but this should be be a surprise. It’s the way of the world now. Nobody wants French style pontificating anymore, they want Marquis De Sade and the Guillotine.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:23 am... said it once, will say it again. The Israeli's are doing themselves no favors with their attempts to control speech in the US - playing the any speech which is critical of the government is antisemitic, game. They think repeating it and saying it louder will change minds. They are losing the debate and looking like they are just gaslighting the world, the same way as their enemy. They need to STFU!PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:39 pm Pretty bold move.
"An Israeli diplomat tried to persuade a leading New York college to cancel a course about the growing debate over whether the Jewish state practices a form of apartheid in the occupied Palestinian territories.
The Israeli consul for public diplomacy in New York, Yuval Donio-Gideon, took the highly unusual step of contacting Bard College earlier this year to object to the course, Apartheid in Israel-Palestine, on the grounds that it breached the controversial International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of antisemitism.
When the college defended the course, it came under pressure from pro-Israel groups and from at least one major donor. Robert Epstein, the property developer and co-owner of the Boston Celtics, resigned from Bard’s board of trustees in protest at Bard’s refusal to cancel the subject.
The course was designed and taught by Nathan Thrall, a Jewish American writer and researcher who lives in Jerusalem.
“The Israeli consulate contacted Bard and said they would like the course to be cancelled. There was mention of the IHRA definition of antisemitism which is the standard means of attempting to silence criticism of Israel,” said Thrall."
How about Israel concerns itself with freedom of speech and expression in Israel? Pretty sure we can handle the debate by ourselves, thank you. Epstein didn't like it, so he protested. See how it works?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... eid-debate
Also hasn’t this been the case in the US a lot? I’m surrounded by Jewish family and friends but most by brith and we’re good once they got their barmitsvah cheddar and/or couldn’t go to the Jewish hookup summer camps anymore and otherwise see a synagogue 1x every 12-24mo so not the most passionate except my concert sister. But I see the “that’s anti Semitic” tossed around quickly a lot here in the US.
https://kevineikenberry.com/leadership/ ... cognition/
mmm, yes a weak metaphor, but if we wanted to force fit something, it would be more akin to a terrorist group from Puerto Rico coming to Florida and killing 50-60,000 American civilians, Palm Beach to Ft Lauderdale during spring break to catch all those kids partying and defenseless. And with Puerto Rico, still under US 'control' but embargoed and controlled access, with the Puerto Rican 'government/terrorist org' declaring that they and the Native Americans and the descendants of slaves in the US, and Cubans, intend to drive all others into the sea...from sea to shining sea. And with this actually being a credible threat as Canada, and multiple South and Central American countries, and the UK all having previously in the not distant past having attempted to do actually that by full scale military force; and indeed another large terrorist group (Hezbollah) massing on the border of Canada...and with China (Iran) and some others financing the terrorist groups...dislaxxic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:36 am Apologies if this got discussed up-thread...
I'm hearing all these Zionist pundits throwing out the "what if Mexico attacked Florida and murdered 1,400 Floridians...would we support a cease-fire with THESE people??" IMO, this is a dangerous, false equivalency. Brushing off criticism of their response strategy with a real red herring.
I'd ask them to carry the metaphor they love all the way out...
If the murderous Mexicans then retreated to, say, Tijuana, a heavily populated urban area that was, say, walled off to prohibit civilians from fleeing...and said murderers were hiding in tunnels under hospitals and schools, governed by a terrorist city council totally separate and apart from the larger Mexican government...that was dedicated to "wiping Florida off the map"...well, what then?? A much more evolved strategy seems very much in order...
Hamas needs to be destroyed and totally marginalized, to be sure. Quickly.
Pounding Gaza to a bloody pulp and murdering innocent civilians is not a viable or moral option. Easy. Soothing to Israeli's that want to wipe Palestinians off the map of the world. Not a solution to this most intractable issue.
..
... do I get to pick the 1400??dislaxxic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:36 am Apologies if this got discussed up-thread...
I'm hearing all these Zionist pundits throwing out the "what if Mexico attacked Florida and murdered 1,400 Floridians...would we support a cease-fire with THESE people??" IMO, this is a dangerous, false equivalency. Brushing off criticism of their response strategy with a real red herring.
I'd ask them to carry the metaphor they love all the way out...
If the murderous Mexicans then retreated to, say, Tijuana, a heavily populated urban area that was, say, walled off to prohibit civilians from fleeing...and said murderers were hiding in tunnels under hospitals and schools, governed by a terrorist city council totally separate and apart from the larger Mexican government...that was dedicated to "wiping Florida off the map"...well, what then?? A much more evolved strategy seems very much in order...
Hamas needs to be destroyed and totally marginalized, to be sure. Quickly.
Pounding Gaza to a bloody pulp and murdering innocent civilians is not a viable or moral option. Easy. Soothing to Israeli's that want to wipe Palestinians off the map of the world. Not a solution to this most intractable issue.
..
Your irrelevant to the discussion. You should be on the front lines in Ukraine killing Russians. Maybe not with a rifle but certainly a brief conversations with you would send massive #s of Russian soldiers calling it quits.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:50 am... do I get to pick the 1400??dislaxxic wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:36 am Apologies if this got discussed up-thread...
I'm hearing all these Zionist pundits throwing out the "what if Mexico attacked Florida and murdered 1,400 Floridians...would we support a cease-fire with THESE people??" IMO, this is a dangerous, false equivalency. Brushing off criticism of their response strategy with a real red herring.
I'd ask them to carry the metaphor they love all the way out...
If the murderous Mexicans then retreated to, say, Tijuana, a heavily populated urban area that was, say, walled off to prohibit civilians from fleeing...and said murderers were hiding in tunnels under hospitals and schools, governed by a terrorist city council totally separate and apart from the larger Mexican government...that was dedicated to "wiping Florida off the map"...well, what then?? A much more evolved strategy seems very much in order...
Hamas needs to be destroyed and totally marginalized, to be sure. Quickly.
Pounding Gaza to a bloody pulp and murdering innocent civilians is not a viable or moral option. Easy. Soothing to Israeli's that want to wipe Palestinians off the map of the world. Not a solution to this most intractable issue.
..
Obama's bad, and didn't do the spectacular job the last several R Presidents did in ending this mess. Boy, some real enlightening stuff here.
old salt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 12:44 pm https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/11/ ... term=third
Yes, Obama Is Complicit
By THE EDITORS, November 7, 2023
...
In Obama’s second term, his foreign policy was focused primarily on securing a nuclear deal with Iran. Much of the criticism of the deal has focused on what was in it — i.e., that it delivered billions in sanctions relief while allowing Iran to bolster its conventional military and preserve a glide path toward a nuclear weapon. What is more overlooked is the fact that in its desperate pursuit of the nuclear deal, the Obama administration turned a blind eye toward Iran’s malign behavior around the globe, despite its being the leading state sponsor of terrorism. This included funding, training, and transferring weapons to Hamas and Hezbollah. In fact, a 2017 investigative report by Politico revealed, “In its determination to secure a nuclear deal with Iran, the Obama administration derailed an ambitious law enforcement campaign targeting drug trafficking by the Iranian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah, even as it was funneling cocaine into the United States.” Money raised by the drug trafficking helped fund Hezbollah’s terrorism against Israel, Lebanon, Syria, and elsewhere.