All things CoronaVirus

[MDlaxfan76]

I was having a pleasant day hitting golf balls...

I'm a 'defense in depth' kinda guy.

The disease spreads through the air, particularly extended exposure. Reduce the exposure, reduce the spread.

All sorts of measures can reduce the spread, my 'prescription' would be to layer these in as many situations as possible, while enabling society to continue as the data rolled in on particular aspects.

Distancing # 1, masks right behind distancing and yes, mandated, when distancing can't be fully maintained. More outside, more air flow dispersion, better filtration, keep adding layers of defense in order to as much as possible to enable economy and continued social interaction for those most in need of such.

More PPE, more test, trace and isolate...all helping.

Re data rolling in, seems to me that as the data has revealed that schooling for youngsters is very important, yet can be accomplished with relatively little spread IF there are mitigation measures in place, distancing, masks, testing etc...then prioritize that over activities which really don't need to be done, eg bars and concerts and...

this is so frustrating. i don't know what to tell people anymore. you just said we should be like denmark and finland and not have masks. but now masks. ready to give up.

No, that was you saying that Finland and Denmark don't have masks and thus we shouldn't wear masks...I made no such (stupid IMO) conclusions.

You're a smart guy, wgdsr, you know better and are just trying to pick an argument with me again.

not at all.
here's your quote:

"Yes, that would indeed have been a 'win'!
South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong did it...

But Germany or Canada's rate would have been a 'win' comparatively too.
Much less Denmark, Finland, etc.

you were replying re: deaths annually for tb, which i can quote entirely if you wish.

we're having a discussion here. my interpretation is we should've done what denmark and finland did. that we're a comparator.

part of what they did was... not wear masks.

not picking a fight at all. a discussion. you have put a stake in the ground for months. feel free to clarify the above if you wish. we compare badly to denmark and finland, should've done what they did... or not. that's what it looks like to me.

I merely responded to Kram that, of course, a rate lower than TB deaths would have been a win...absolutely! And yet, some countries did so...some with masks as a big component, some with other distancing, some with test and trace.

But far, far from impossible. Not many did that well, but not impossible.

I've just (once again) explained that I see this as a 'defense in depth' issue. Do it all, and refine as you learn more. Sure as heck don't convince half the adult population that the virus isn't actually a serious problem, rather it's just a media or partisan 'hoax'.

But masking was the cheapest measure, with the least interruption to daily life, so at least encourage that along with some distancing measures...get the testing and tracing working...bottomline, keep it from exploding out of control. And keep it low...until the vaccines etc can get the job done.

Do I think it's particularly remarkable that countries very close to the initial outbreak, where there definitely was some early exposure, were able to suppress it with masking and contact tracing? You betcha. Do I think it makes sense to learn from them? You betcha.

I'm not suggesting that the US was going to pull off that very low level of infection and deaths, but I do think we could have quickly adopted a far better attitude towards the virus and thus avoided much of the economic cost, as well as the loss of life.

We're still flailing very badly.

[kramerica.inc]

A big Ef U to those saying, or even implying, that Covid deaths are no big deal for those already with one foot in the grave.

The one-foot-in-the-grave argument is nonsense. Look at the "excess deaths" statistics. This compares total deaths over a period to a baseline of the past few years. So far in 2020, there have been close to 300,000 excess deaths in the US, regardless of cause.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm

EDIT: this was already noted by Md above

fear porn disguised as math

"...based on ONE week......for the past five years....?

over 100K people died above how many died the year before. talking 2016. .

don't know how accurate the numbers are, regarding mortality, etc. in the link below.

Of note , in only 85 years, the life expectancy rate went from age 61, (1933) to almost age 80, today

( cdc website is a mess with all it's metadata hiding of files......so, there IS this article from the infotainment industry )

logicallty, IF population increases, it only makes sense that deaths would increase, from previous years. That is what the first number is capturing , IS not it? (avg. adjusted death rate )




https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/20 ... 111928450/

How many die of TB yearly? Less than that is probably a win.

https://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/fac ... trends.htm

Yes, that would indeed have been a 'win'!
South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong did it...

But Germany or Canada's rate would have been a 'win' comparatively too.
Much less Denmark, Finland, etc.

Here’s more data from the cdc:

https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/newsro ... index.html

[MDlaxfan76]

A big Ef U to those saying, or even implying, that Covid deaths are no big deal for those already with one foot in the grave.

The one-foot-in-the-grave argument is nonsense. Look at the "excess deaths" statistics. This compares total deaths over a period to a baseline of the past few years. So far in 2020, there have been close to 300,000 excess deaths in the US, regardless of cause.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6942e2.htm

EDIT: this was already noted by Md above

fear porn disguised as math

"...based on ONE week......for the past five years....?

over 100K people died above how many died the year before. talking 2016. .

don't know how accurate the numbers are, regarding mortality, etc. in the link below.

Of note , in only 85 years, the life expectancy rate went from age 61, (1933) to almost age 80, today

( cdc website is a mess with all it's metadata hiding of files......so, there IS this article from the infotainment industry )

logicallty, IF population increases, it only makes sense that deaths would increase, from previous years. That is what the first number is capturing , IS not it? (avg. adjusted death rate )




https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/20 ... 111928450/

How many die of TB yearly? Less than that is probably a win.

https://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/fac ... trends.htm

Yes, that would indeed have been a 'win'!
South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong did it...

But Germany or Canada's rate would have been a 'win' comparatively too.
Much less Denmark, Finland, etc.

Here’s more data from the cdc:

https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/newsro ... index.html

Less than 1,000 deaths in the US each year.

https://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/fac ... trends.htm

[wgdsr]

what i do... i don't go anywhere that i wouldn't have gone without a mask. how i make any decision.

i don't think the entire populace makes a decision based on the same. actually, i know they don't.

Grocery shopping?

yup. i'd do grocery shopping. but we don't. do curbside. why not?

Why not is right. Beer runs are curbside for me. Anyway, off topic. I watched Gonzaga basketball today. Team is legit and the freshman Jalen Suggs is the real deal...his high school teammate was Chet Holmgren who may head there next year. He is a freak player. 7’1 with a handle but is rail thin.

saw about 10 min of their kansas game. they're talented, great program. would cheer for them to win a title.
hoos could have another good year, newcomers should contribute and are already.

gonna be tough to run a season with all the cancellations for hoops.

[Typical Lax Dad]

what i do... i don't go anywhere that i wouldn't have gone without a mask. how i make any decision.

i don't think the entire populace makes a decision based on the same. actually, i know they don't.

Grocery shopping?

yup. i'd do grocery shopping. but we don't. do curbside. why not?

Why not is right. Beer runs are curbside for me. Anyway, off topic. I watched Gonzaga basketball today. Team is legit and the freshman Jalen Suggs is the real deal...his high school teammate was Chet Holmgren who may head there next year. He is a freak player. 7’1 with a handle but is rail thin.

saw about 10 min of their kansas game. they're talented, great program. would cheer for them to win a title.
hoos could have another good year, newcomers should contribute and are already.

gonna be tough to run a season with all the cancellations for hoops.

Yes....my friend’s dad was the happiest guy in California yesterday.... Booster for U. San Francisco.... last high point fir that program was San Francisco vs Georgia when Quentin Daly and Dominique Wilkins put on a show. Two of the best performances I have ever seen! Hope we get NCAA BB tournament this year. Even if it’s in bubbles.



Eric Marbury is Steph’s older brother. He was good.... so was Vern Fleming.

[wgdsr]

I was having a pleasant day hitting golf balls...

I'm a 'defense in depth' kinda guy.

The disease spreads through the air, particularly extended exposure. Reduce the exposure, reduce the spread.

All sorts of measures can reduce the spread, my 'prescription' would be to layer these in as many situations as possible, while enabling society to continue as the data rolled in on particular aspects.

Distancing # 1, masks right behind distancing and yes, mandated, when distancing can't be fully maintained. More outside, more air flow dispersion, better filtration, keep adding layers of defense in order to as much as possible to enable economy and continued social interaction for those most in need of such.

More PPE, more test, trace and isolate...all helping.

Re data rolling in, seems to me that as the data has revealed that schooling for youngsters is very important, yet can be accomplished with relatively little spread IF there are mitigation measures in place, distancing, masks, testing etc...then prioritize that over activities which really don't need to be done, eg bars and concerts and...

this is so frustrating. i don't know what to tell people anymore. you just said we should be like denmark and finland and not have masks. but now masks. ready to give up.

No, that was you saying that Finland and Denmark don't have masks and thus we shouldn't wear masks...I made no such (stupid IMO) conclusions.

You're a smart guy, wgdsr, you know better and are just trying to pick an argument with me again.

not at all.
here's your quote:

"Yes, that would indeed have been a 'win'!
South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong did it...

But Germany or Canada's rate would have been a 'win' comparatively too.
Much less Denmark, Finland, etc.

you were replying re: deaths annually for tb, which i can quote entirely if you wish.

we're having a discussion here. my interpretation is we should've done what denmark and finland did. that we're a comparator.

part of what they did was... not wear masks.

not picking a fight at all. a discussion. you have put a stake in the ground for months. feel free to clarify the above if you wish. we compare badly to denmark and finland, should've done what they did... or not. that's what it looks like to me.

I merely responded to Kram that, of course, a rate lower than TB deaths would have been a win...absolutely! And yet, some countries did so...some with masks as a big component, some with other distancing, some with test and trace.

But far, far from impossible. Not many did that well, but not impossible.

I've just (once again) explained that I see this as a 'defense in depth' issue. Do it all, and refine as you learn more. Sure as heck don't convince half the adult population that the virus isn't actually a serious problem, rather it's just a media or partisan 'hoax'.

But masking was the cheapest measure, with the least interruption to daily life, so at least encourage that along with some distancing measures...get the testing and tracing working...bottomline, keep it from exploding out of control. And keep it low...until the vaccines etc can get the job done.

Do I think it's particularly remarkable that countries very close to the initial outbreak, where there definitely was some early exposure, were able to suppress it with masking and contact tracing? You betcha. Do I think it makes sense to learn from them? You betcha.

I'm not suggesting that the US was going to pull off that very low level of infection and deaths, but I do think we could have quickly adopted a far better attitude towards the virus and thus avoided much of the economic cost, as well as the loss of life.

We're still flailing very badly.

interesting opinions.
tomato, tomato.

[wgdsr]

what i do... i don't go anywhere that i wouldn't have gone without a mask. how i make any decision.

i don't think the entire populace makes a decision based on the same. actually, i know they don't.

Grocery shopping?

yup. i'd do grocery shopping. but we don't. do curbside. why not?

Why not is right. Beer runs are curbside for me. Anyway, off topic. I watched Gonzaga basketball today. Team is legit and the freshman Jalen Suggs is the real deal...his high school teammate was Chet Holmgren who may head there next year. He is a freak player. 7’1 with a handle but is rail thin.

saw about 10 min of their kansas game. they're talented, great program. would cheer for them to win a title.
hoos could have another good year, newcomers should contribute and are already.

gonna be tough to run a season with all the cancellations for hoops.

Yes....my friend’s dad was the happiest guy in California yesterday.... Booster for U. San Francisco.... last high point fir that program was San Francisco vs Georgia when Quentin Daly and Dominique Wilkins put on a show. Two of the best performances I have ever seen! Hope we get NCAA BB tournament this year. Even if it’s in bubbles.



Eric Marbury is Steph’s older brother. He was good.... so was Vern Fleming.

quentin daly was phenomenal at usf.

[Typical Lax Dad]

what i do... i don't go anywhere that i wouldn't have gone without a mask. how i make any decision.

i don't think the entire populace makes a decision based on the same. actually, i know they don't.

Grocery shopping?

yup. i'd do grocery shopping. but we don't. do curbside. why not?

Why not is right. Beer runs are curbside for me. Anyway, off topic. I watched Gonzaga basketball today. Team is legit and the freshman Jalen Suggs is the real deal...his high school teammate was Chet Holmgren who may head there next year. He is a freak player. 7’1 with a handle but is rail thin.

saw about 10 min of their kansas game. they're talented, great program. would cheer for them to win a title.
hoos could have another good year, newcomers should contribute and are already.

gonna be tough to run a season with all the cancellations for hoops.

Yes....my friend’s dad was the happiest guy in California yesterday.... Booster for U. San Francisco.... last high point fir that program was San Francisco vs Georgia when Quentin Daly and Dominique Wilkins put on a show. Two of the best performances I have ever seen! Hope we get NCAA BB tournament this year. Even if it’s in bubbles.



Eric Marbury is Steph’s older brother. He was good.... so was Vern Fleming.

quentin daly was phenomenal at usf.

Yes he was.....I watched that game in my best friends basement! We still talk about that game. I sent him the clip.

1979 was best class of high school basketball players ever.

[RedFromMI]

https://apple.news/Aer9Xh9fjTY6H1hp1mR5Nfw

I know of two students at my school who have contracted COVID-19 twice.

that would be really odd. 2 at one school without much worldwide confirm on reinfection

what were there ct amplifications the 2nd time?

No idea. Second tests (in the last ~month) were done through a local hospital system testing service - samples analyzed in Greenville, SC. I don't have any special knowledge of the tests, just from other students/staff at my school of the situation.

[youthathletics]

https://apple.news/Aer9Xh9fjTY6H1hp1mR5Nfw

I know of two students at my school who have contracted COVID-19 twice.

that would be really odd. 2 at one school without much worldwide confirm on reinfection

what were there ct amplifications the 2nd time?

No idea. Second tests (in the last ~month) were done through a local hospital system testing service - samples analyzed in Greenville, SC. I don't have any special knowledge of the tests, just from other students/staff at my school of the situation.

Contracted w/symptoms or only in test markers.

[Matnum PI]

RT @badbanana: I'm more into artisanal, small-batch vaccines.

[RedFromMI]

https://apple.news/Aer9Xh9fjTY6H1hp1mR5Nfw

I know of two students at my school who have contracted COVID-19 twice.

that would be really odd. 2 at one school without much worldwide confirm on reinfection

what were there ct amplifications the 2nd time?

No idea. Second tests (in the last ~month) were done through a local hospital system testing service - samples analyzed in Greenville, SC. I don't have any special knowledge of the tests, just from other students/staff at my school of the situation.

Contracted w/symptoms or only in test markers.

Symptoms...

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://apple.news/Aer9Xh9fjTY6H1hp1mR5Nfw

I know of two students at my school who have contracted COVID-19 twice.

that would be really odd. 2 at one school without much worldwide confirm on reinfection

what were there ct amplifications the 2nd time?

No idea. Second tests (in the last ~month) were done through a local hospital system testing service - samples analyzed in Greenville, SC. I don't have any special knowledge of the tests, just from other students/staff at my school of the situation.

Contracted w/symptoms or only in test markers.

Symptoms...

Test markers and symptoms could both be wrong...

[wgdsr]

https://apple.news/Aer9Xh9fjTY6H1hp1mR5Nfw

I know of two students at my school who have contracted COVID-19 twice.

that would be really odd. 2 at one school without much worldwide confirm on reinfection

what were there ct amplifications the 2nd time?

No idea. Second tests (in the last ~month) were done through a local hospital system testing service - samples analyzed in Greenville, SC. I don't have any special knowledge of the tests, just from other students/staff at my school of the situation.

Contracted w/symptoms or only in test markers.

Symptoms...

Test markers and symptoms could both be wrong...

until they test for it and study it, they won't know. presumably there would be a scientist or 2 that would want to do just that in this case.

still considered rare, but probably more common than thought. especially given asymptomatic cases. different variants is how some people studying it have confirmed it vs. one that didn't clear entirely.

[CU88]

United States Coronavirus Cases: 13,746,232

Deaths: 273,064

What is the White House Coronavirus Taskforce doing these days?

[Brooklyn]

United States Coronavirus Cases: 13,746,232

Deaths: 273,064

What is the White House Coronavirus Taskforce doing these days?

Playing golf and blaming Democrats for the mess created by the rePUKEblicans.

[wgdsr]

United States Coronavirus Cases: 13,746,232

Deaths: 273,064

What is the White House Coronavirus Taskforce doing these days?

this was from about a week and a half ago, i'm sure not all-encompassing but from a number of the members on different aspects:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-st ... r-19-2020/

[Typical Lax Dad]

United States Coronavirus Cases: 13,746,232

Deaths: 273,064

What is the White House Coronavirus Taskforce doing these days?

this was from about a week and a half ago, i'm sure not all-encompassing but from a number of the members on different aspects:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-st ... r-19-2020/

We are improving.....positivity rate went from 20% last Spring to 10% now....Mike and his crew have done a great job!

[youthathletics]

Vitamin D Insufficiency May Account for Almost Nine of Ten COVID-19 Deaths: Time to Act. Comment on: “Vitamin D Deficiency and Outcome of COVID-19 Patients”. Nutrients 2020, 12, 2757

https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/12/3642/htm

[RedFromMI]

There is a really great article on TalkingPointsMemo.com about how the conservative movement in the US is particularly ill-suited to fighting the pandemic:

It’s Not Just Trump: COVID-19 Is The Test That Conservatism Was Built To Fail
Focusing solely on the ousting of this particular president and his friends — and on their considerable failures as leaders — risks missing a deeper, more fundamental point: that though Donald Trump lost reelection, the ideology and belief system underpinning so many of the debacles of his presidency prevails, and was always doomed to fail the country in the face of a disaster like this one.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/not- ... d-pandemic

Nearly nine months into this COVID crisis, the virus appears to be raging completely out of control in the United States. Last week, we set new, dismal records for both hospitalizations and new cases, and daily deaths from COVID have now reached levels we haven’t suffered since the spring. Worse, there does not appear to be any plan in place to arrest the spread and bend the curve back downward, at least not from this outgoing administration. At the same time, the economic recovery from the spring’s shock has demonstrably slowed, with unemployment claims ticking back up, job creation slowing, and small business closures accelerating. The scale and degree of the failure to handle this public health and economic crisis is breathtaking.

It would be easy — and not entirely wrong — to blame these failures on the particular personality in the White House right now. After all, President Trump, during the course of this crisis, has made some truly outrageous statements. And his posture towards the crisis, especially as the election neared, flew in the face of not only experts and local officials, but of common sense as well. And now that Trump has been defeated in the election, it would be equally easy, and comforting, to assume that with his personal irresponsibility gone, we will be finally rid of the main obstacle to an effective COVID response.

But focusing solely on the ousting of this particular president and his friends — and on their considerable failures as leaders — risks missing a deeper, more fundamental point: that though Donald Trump lost reelection, the ideology and belief system underpinning so many of the debacles of his presidency prevails, and was always doomed to fail the country in the face of a disaster like this one. A response to COVID-19 and the economic crisis it triggered guided by and grounded in a conservative worldview would always have failed us, regardless of who was in the White House. At base, conservative ideology itself was just as responsible for the failure to appropriately and effectively respond to this crisis as Trump’s personal failings were. And that ideology will still be present — rife, in fact — in our government long after Trump is gone.

Now, like any ideology, conservatism is not homogenous. It spans a spectrum of ideas that can roughly be grouped under a broad umbrella. But there are some important core tenets of the conservative movement that most, if not all, adherents share to some degree. First, conservatism posits that that government itself tends to cause more problems than it solves, and that free markets — unencumbered by government intervention — are always best positioned to allocate resources and improve society. Second, modern conservatism argues that the economy is primarily driven by capital and its owners, and as such, the interests of capital owners are paramount. And third, conservatives tend to see differences and disparities along racial and gender lines as either irrelevant, temporary, or — in the most pernicious form — deserved.

Certainly, conservatism means more than just these three ideas. But these three in particular, and their corollaries, are all critical tent poles for the modern conservative movement that permeate all levels of our government and economy. And as we lay out in detail below, these are arguments that fall flat generally and are especially ill-suited to the current COVID crisis.

Authors Michael Linden (fellow at the Roosevelt Institute, Groundwork Collaborative) and Sammi Aibinder (Groundwork Collaborative) then proceed to argue about how conservative's feelings about (1) government is always a worse means of solving problems than the private sector, (2) the primacy of capital and its owners (supply side) over the consumer side, (3) adherence to "color blindness" which means that dealing with disparate effects on people of color, etc will fail, and (4) the distrust of science and people of knowledge, all combine to help guarantee that a conservative approach to the pandemic is "built to fail."