All Things Russia & Ukraine

[MDlaxfan76]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

[old salt]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

[MDlaxfan76]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

good try.
These are valid discussions, but you're clearly deflecting away from your increasingly uncomfortable defense of Trump and his minions and their relationship with Putin and his.

[old salt]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

good try.
These are valid discussions, but you're clearly deflecting away from your increasingly uncomfortable defense of Trump and his minions and their relationship with Putin and his.

I never denied that Trump & his staff sought an improved relationship with Russia or that Trump admired Putin.
I pushed back on the election collusion hoax & the attempts to depict Trump's policies as soft on Russia.
Trump was tougher on Russia than our NATO allies were & than Biden has been, so far.

[MDlaxfan76]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

good try.
These are valid discussions, but you're clearly deflecting away from your increasingly uncomfortable defense of Trump and his minions and their relationship with Putin and his.

I never denied that Trump & his staff sought an improved relationship with Russia or that Trump admired Putin.
I pushed back on the election collusion hoax & the attempts to depict Trump's policies as soft on Russia.
Trump was tougher on Russia than our NATO allies were & than Biden has been, so far.

I'm not going to debate you again on whether Trump's policies were "tough" on Russia nor whether they were "tougher" than Biden's "so far".

You already know that I think Trump's understanding with Putin was 'help me personally, and I'll help you"...including taking Ukraine....they found common cause in undermining democracy and its principles around the world and within the United States, propping up right wing authoritarians at every turn. With Trump a wannabe.

And now we see evidence of that quid pro quo being communicated through Kiliminik and Manafort.

Yup, "collusion".

And everything "tough" from Trump was mere theater.

[old salt]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

good try.
These are valid discussions, but you're clearly deflecting away from your increasingly uncomfortable defense of Trump and his minions and their relationship with Putin and his.

I never denied that Trump & his staff sought an improved relationship with Russia or that Trump admired Putin.
I pushed back on the election collusion hoax & the attempts to depict Trump's policies as soft on Russia.
Trump was tougher on Russia than our NATO allies were & than Biden has been, so far.

I'm not going to debate you again on whether Trump's policies were "tough" on Russia nor whether they were "tougher" than Biden's "so far".

You already know that I think Trump's understanding with Putin was 'help me personally, and I'll help you"...including taking Ukraine....they found common cause in undermining democracy and its principles around the world and within the United States, propping up right wing authoritarians at every turn. With Trump a wannabe.

And now we see evidence of that quid pro quo being communicated through Kiliminik and Manafort.

Yup, "collusion".

And everything "tough" from Trump was mere theater.

Of course you won't. You still have only the same tired conspiracy theories.
The weapons & military trainers provided by the US were hardly theater. They far exceeded anything done by our EU allies or the Obama Admin. Russian troops didn't take the Donbass while Trump was in office. Their golden opportunity if Trump was in Putin's pocket.

[MDlaxfan76]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

good try.
These are valid discussions, but you're clearly deflecting away from your increasingly uncomfortable defense of Trump and his minions and their relationship with Putin and his.

I never denied that Trump & his staff sought an improved relationship with Russia or that Trump admired Putin.
I pushed back on the election collusion hoax & the attempts to depict Trump's policies as soft on Russia.
Trump was tougher on Russia than our NATO allies were & than Biden has been, so far.

I'm not going to debate you again on whether Trump's policies were "tough" on Russia nor whether they were "tougher" than Biden's "so far".

You already know that I think Trump's understanding with Putin was 'help me personally, and I'll help you"...including taking Ukraine....they found common cause in undermining democracy and its principles around the world and within the United States, propping up right wing authoritarians at every turn. With Trump a wannabe.

And now we see evidence of that quid pro quo being communicated through Kiliminik and Manafort.

Yup, "collusion".

And everything "tough" from Trump was mere theater.

Of course you won't. You still have only the same tired conspiracy theories.
The weapons & military trainers provided by the US were hardly theater. They far exceeded anything done by our EU allies or the Obama Admin. Russian troops didn't take the Donbass while Trump was in office. Their golden opportunity if Trump was in Putin's pocket.

Yup, all theater.

No, the connection between them got blown up. Requiring the theater.

[old salt]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

good try.
These are valid discussions, but you're clearly deflecting away from your increasingly uncomfortable defense of Trump and his minions and their relationship with Putin and his.

I never denied that Trump & his staff sought an improved relationship with Russia or that Trump admired Putin.
I pushed back on the election collusion hoax & the attempts to depict Trump's policies as soft on Russia.
Trump was tougher on Russia than our NATO allies were & than Biden has been, so far.

I'm not going to debate you again on whether Trump's policies were "tough" on Russia nor whether they were "tougher" than Biden's "so far".

You already know that I think Trump's understanding with Putin was 'help me personally, and I'll help you"...including taking Ukraine....they found common cause in undermining democracy and its principles around the world and within the United States, propping up right wing authoritarians at every turn. With Trump a wannabe.

And now we see evidence of that quid pro quo being communicated through Kiliminik and Manafort.

Yup, "collusion".

And everything "tough" from Trump was mere theater.

Of course you won't. You still have only the same tired conspiracy theories.
The weapons & military trainers provided by the US were hardly theater. They far exceeded anything done by our EU allies or the Obama Admin. Russian troops didn't take the Donbass while Trump was in office. Their golden opportunity if Trump was in Putin's pocket.

Yup, all theater.

No, the connection between them got blown up. Requiring the theater.

Theater ? We have US military trainers in Ukraine training Ukrainian soldiers on light infantry tactics tailored for use in the Donbass & we're training them on the use of the Javelin missiles we sold them which are now deployed, as well as the night vision devices, anti mortar & artillery radars & the secure comm gear we've provided. We've also given them 2 Coast Guard cutters which can be further armed with anti-ship missiles making them effective Black Sea warships. This is much more effective military aid than anything provided by our EU allies or the Obama Admin.

[MDlaxfan76]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

good try.
These are valid discussions, but you're clearly deflecting away from your increasingly uncomfortable defense of Trump and his minions and their relationship with Putin and his.

I never denied that Trump & his staff sought an improved relationship with Russia or that Trump admired Putin.
I pushed back on the election collusion hoax & the attempts to depict Trump's policies as soft on Russia.
Trump was tougher on Russia than our NATO allies were & than Biden has been, so far.

I'm not going to debate you again on whether Trump's policies were "tough" on Russia nor whether they were "tougher" than Biden's "so far".

You already know that I think Trump's understanding with Putin was 'help me personally, and I'll help you"...including taking Ukraine....they found common cause in undermining democracy and its principles around the world and within the United States, propping up right wing authoritarians at every turn. With Trump a wannabe.

And now we see evidence of that quid pro quo being communicated through Kiliminik and Manafort.

Yup, "collusion".

And everything "tough" from Trump was mere theater.

Of course you won't. You still have only the same tired conspiracy theories.
The weapons & military trainers provided by the US were hardly theater. They far exceeded anything done by our EU allies or the Obama Admin. Russian troops didn't take the Donbass while Trump was in office. Their golden opportunity if Trump was in Putin's pocket.

Yup, all theater.

No, the connection between them got blown up. Requiring the theater.

Theater ? We have US military trainers in Ukraine training Ukrainian soldiers on light infantry tactics tailored for use in the Donbass & we're training them on the use of the Javelin missiles we sold them which are now deployed, as well as the night vision devices, anti mortar & artillery radars & the secure comm gear we've provided. We've also given them 2 Coast Guard cutters which can be further armed with anti-ship missiles making them effective Black Sea warships. This is much more effective military aid than anything provided by our EU allies or the Obama Admin.

No argument there.
But it wouldn't have happened at all had the Russian effort to help Trump been 'outed'.
Tanks would have rolled.

[old salt]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

good try.
These are valid discussions, but you're clearly deflecting away from your increasingly uncomfortable defense of Trump and his minions and their relationship with Putin and his.

I never denied that Trump & his staff sought an improved relationship with Russia or that Trump admired Putin.
I pushed back on the election collusion hoax & the attempts to depict Trump's policies as soft on Russia.
Trump was tougher on Russia than our NATO allies were & than Biden has been, so far.

I'm not going to debate you again on whether Trump's policies were "tough" on Russia nor whether they were "tougher" than Biden's "so far".

You already know that I think Trump's understanding with Putin was 'help me personally, and I'll help you"...including taking Ukraine....they found common cause in undermining democracy and its principles around the world and within the United States, propping up right wing authoritarians at every turn. With Trump a wannabe.

And now we see evidence of that quid pro quo being communicated through Kiliminik and Manafort.

Yup, "collusion".

And everything "tough" from Trump was mere theater.

Of course you won't. You still have only the same tired conspiracy theories.
The weapons & military trainers provided by the US were hardly theater. They far exceeded anything done by our EU allies or the Obama Admin. Russian troops didn't take the Donbass while Trump was in office. Their golden opportunity if Trump was in Putin's pocket.

Yup, all theater.

No, the connection between them got blown up. Requiring the theater.

Theater ? We have US military trainers in Ukraine training Ukrainian soldiers on light infantry tactics tailored for use in the Donbass & we're training them on the use of the Javelin missiles we sold them which are now deployed, as well as the night vision devices, anti mortar & artillery radars & the secure comm gear we've provided. We've also given them 2 Coast Guard cutters which can be further armed with anti-ship missiles making them effective Black Sea warships. This is much more effective military aid than anything provided by our EU allies or the Obama Admin.

No argument there.
But it wouldn't have happened at all had the Russian effort to help Trump been 'outed'.
Tanks would have rolled.

That's some pretty wild speculation. We already had military trainers on the ground in Ukraine, in addition to all our forces in Poland & Germany, poised to come to Ukraine's aid.

Because of his dependence on EU energy sales, Putin could not, & still can't, risk an invasion of Ukraine.

[MDlaxfan76]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

good try.
These are valid discussions, but you're clearly deflecting away from your increasingly uncomfortable defense of Trump and his minions and their relationship with Putin and his.

I never denied that Trump & his staff sought an improved relationship with Russia or that Trump admired Putin.
I pushed back on the election collusion hoax & the attempts to depict Trump's policies as soft on Russia.
Trump was tougher on Russia than our NATO allies were & than Biden has been, so far.

I'm not going to debate you again on whether Trump's policies were "tough" on Russia nor whether they were "tougher" than Biden's "so far".

You already know that I think Trump's understanding with Putin was 'help me personally, and I'll help you"...including taking Ukraine....they found common cause in undermining democracy and its principles around the world and within the United States, propping up right wing authoritarians at every turn. With Trump a wannabe.

And now we see evidence of that quid pro quo being communicated through Kiliminik and Manafort.

Yup, "collusion".

And everything "tough" from Trump was mere theater.

Of course you won't. You still have only the same tired conspiracy theories.
The weapons & military trainers provided by the US were hardly theater. They far exceeded anything done by our EU allies or the Obama Admin. Russian troops didn't take the Donbass while Trump was in office. Their golden opportunity if Trump was in Putin's pocket.

Yup, all theater.

No, the connection between them got blown up. Requiring the theater.

Theater ? We have US military trainers in Ukraine training Ukrainian soldiers on light infantry tactics tailored for use in the Donbass & we're training them on the use of the Javelin missiles we sold them which are now deployed, as well as the night vision devices, anti mortar & artillery radars & the secure comm gear we've provided. We've also given them 2 Coast Guard cutters which can be further armed with anti-ship missiles making them effective Black Sea warships. This is much more effective military aid than anything provided by our EU allies or the Obama Admin.

No argument there.
But it wouldn't have happened at all had the Russian effort to help Trump been 'outed'.
Tanks would have rolled.

That's some pretty wild speculation. We already had military trainers on the ground in Ukraine, in addition to all our forces in Poland & Germany, poised to come to Ukraine's aid.

Because of his dependence on EU energy sales, Putin could not, & still can't, risk an invasion of Ukraine.

And yet, taking Crimea worked.

And this was the quid pro quo discussed between Kiliminik and Manafort.

And that's the issue, that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to get Trump elected with the understanding of the quid pro quo of Ukraine.

There may well have been other quid pro quo understandings as well, but that's the one that's now coming to light from the redactions re Trump Campaign Manager Manafort in specific...it had been speculated on before in the press, but now we see that the prosecution presented that in court. It also explains why the Senate report was so clear about Kiliminik...they had far more evidence than what the press had that they could report.

[old salt]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

good try.
These are valid discussions, but you're clearly deflecting away from your increasingly uncomfortable defense of Trump and his minions and their relationship with Putin and his.

I never denied that Trump & his staff sought an improved relationship with Russia or that Trump admired Putin.
I pushed back on the election collusion hoax & the attempts to depict Trump's policies as soft on Russia.
Trump was tougher on Russia than our NATO allies were & than Biden has been, so far.

I'm not going to debate you again on whether Trump's policies were "tough" on Russia nor whether they were "tougher" than Biden's "so far".

You already know that I think Trump's understanding with Putin was 'help me personally, and I'll help you"...including taking Ukraine....they found common cause in undermining democracy and its principles around the world and within the United States, propping up right wing authoritarians at every turn. With Trump a wannabe.

And now we see evidence of that quid pro quo being communicated through Kiliminik and Manafort.

Yup, "collusion".

And everything "tough" from Trump was mere theater.

Of course you won't. You still have only the same tired conspiracy theories.
The weapons & military trainers provided by the US were hardly theater. They far exceeded anything done by our EU allies or the Obama Admin. Russian troops didn't take the Donbass while Trump was in office. Their golden opportunity if Trump was in Putin's pocket.

Yup, all theater.

No, the connection between them got blown up. Requiring the theater.

Theater ? We have US military trainers in Ukraine training Ukrainian soldiers on light infantry tactics tailored for use in the Donbass & we're training them on the use of the Javelin missiles we sold them which are now deployed, as well as the night vision devices, anti mortar & artillery radars & the secure comm gear we've provided. We've also given them 2 Coast Guard cutters which can be further armed with anti-ship missiles making them effective Black Sea warships. This is much more effective military aid than anything provided by our EU allies or the Obama Admin.

No argument there.
But it wouldn't have happened at all had the Russian effort to help Trump been 'outed'.
Tanks would have rolled.

That's some pretty wild speculation. We already had military trainers on the ground in Ukraine, in addition to all our forces in Poland & Germany, poised to come to Ukraine's aid.

Because of his dependence on EU energy sales, Putin could not, & still can't, risk an invasion of Ukraine.

And yet, taking Crimea worked.

And this was the quid pro quo discussed between Kiliminik and Manafort.

And that's the issue, that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to get Trump elected with the understanding of the quid pro quo of Ukraine.

There may well have been other quid pro quo understandings as well, but that's the one that's now coming to light from the redactions re Trump Campaign Manager Manafort in specific...it had been speculated on before in the press, but now we see that the prosecution presented that in court. It also explains why the Senate report was so clear about Kiliminik...they had far more evidence than what the press had that they could report.

Obama was President when Russia annexed Crimea. What was the quid pro quo that Trump was to provide ? That the US would not take it back for Ukraine ?

The US (under Trump) did much more to help Ukraine & punish Russia than the EU or Obama Admin did.

[MDlaxfan76]

This bombshell breaking news about Manafort, Gates & Kilimnik is recycled old news being ginned up again to confuse the public into thinking it has something to do with the new sanctions now being imposed. Mueller had all this info & it was thoroughly reported then. It has nothing to do with solar winds or the attempts to interfere with the 2020 election which are the grounds for this round of sanctions.

Any news about the Russian spy who worked for Fional Hill & Strobe Talbot who was Christopher Steele's primary source. ?
Did they throw that in too ?

It remains puzzling that you so vigorously support Vladimir Putin and his corrupt dictatorship.

Try a new line of attack doc. Calling bs on the never ending PTDS Russia hoax is not support for Putin.

Why aren't you up in arms about Biden lifting Nordstream 2 sanctions or letting Putin off the hook for the Colonial pipeline hack ?
The Colonial shut down made Biden back down on Nordstream. He's afraid to stand up to Putin.

Deflect away, salty.

So now you're a Putin apologist ? The Ryanair forced landing is an internal matter for Belarus. Mustn't upset Vlad before the Geneva summit.

good try.
These are valid discussions, but you're clearly deflecting away from your increasingly uncomfortable defense of Trump and his minions and their relationship with Putin and his.

I never denied that Trump & his staff sought an improved relationship with Russia or that Trump admired Putin.
I pushed back on the election collusion hoax & the attempts to depict Trump's policies as soft on Russia.
Trump was tougher on Russia than our NATO allies were & than Biden has been, so far.

I'm not going to debate you again on whether Trump's policies were "tough" on Russia nor whether they were "tougher" than Biden's "so far".

You already know that I think Trump's understanding with Putin was 'help me personally, and I'll help you"...including taking Ukraine....they found common cause in undermining democracy and its principles around the world and within the United States, propping up right wing authoritarians at every turn. With Trump a wannabe.

And now we see evidence of that quid pro quo being communicated through Kiliminik and Manafort.

Yup, "collusion".

And everything "tough" from Trump was mere theater.

Of course you won't. You still have only the same tired conspiracy theories.
The weapons & military trainers provided by the US were hardly theater. They far exceeded anything done by our EU allies or the Obama Admin. Russian troops didn't take the Donbass while Trump was in office. Their golden opportunity if Trump was in Putin's pocket.

Yup, all theater.

No, the connection between them got blown up. Requiring the theater.

Theater ? We have US military trainers in Ukraine training Ukrainian soldiers on light infantry tactics tailored for use in the Donbass & we're training them on the use of the Javelin missiles we sold them which are now deployed, as well as the night vision devices, anti mortar & artillery radars & the secure comm gear we've provided. We've also given them 2 Coast Guard cutters which can be further armed with anti-ship missiles making them effective Black Sea warships. This is much more effective military aid than anything provided by our EU allies or the Obama Admin.

No argument there.
But it wouldn't have happened at all had the Russian effort to help Trump been 'outed'.
Tanks would have rolled.

That's some pretty wild speculation. We already had military trainers on the ground in Ukraine, in addition to all our forces in Poland & Germany, poised to come to Ukraine's aid.

Because of his dependence on EU energy sales, Putin could not, & still can't, risk an invasion of Ukraine.

And yet, taking Crimea worked.

And this was the quid pro quo discussed between Kiliminik and Manafort.

And that's the issue, that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to get Trump elected with the understanding of the quid pro quo of Ukraine.

There may well have been other quid pro quo understandings as well, but that's the one that's now coming to light from the redactions re Trump Campaign Manager Manafort in specific...it had been speculated on before in the press, but now we see that the prosecution presented that in court. It also explains why the Senate report was so clear about Kiliminik...they had far more evidence than what the press had that they could report.

Obama was President when Russia annexed Crimea. What was the quid pro quo that Trump was to provide ? That the US would not take it back for Ukraine ?

The US (under Trump) did much more to help Ukraine & punish Russia than the EU or Obama Admin did.

My point about Crimea was refutation of your claim that Putin stood to lose too much with the EU if he chose to take territory, meddle in neighboring or adversarial nations. He'd already proven that repercussions to that overtly aggressive act were sustainable. The EU blinked (as you have so often pointed out with you "euroburgher" comments); no line in the sand.

On the other hand, the Magnitsky Act sanctions pushed by the US took a significant bite out of his cronies' pockets and more was anticipated. Thus, the focus of so much of the collusive approaches on Magnitsky Act sanctions...and, we now learn, specifically discussing Russia's ambitions on more of Ukraine's territory...and other neighbors likely to follow, given Putin's ambitions.

However, the collusion was outed...denied, sure, but outed. Pressure was on to at least appear tough to various constituencies, including US military and intelligence. On the other hand, we didn't blink when Russia gained a foothold in the ME, and port access on the Mediterranean, for the first time in many decades. Nope, come on in pals.

I continue to think that the most plausible explanation for all this was that Trump himself was primarily a 'useful idiot' who thought he could play the game to his benefit and not get caught, at least not criminally, as a traitor. Egomaniac, narcissist that he is, he thought he could achieve his aims with the help of Putin without being subservient to Putin...you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, wink wink. He wanted authoritarian style powers, in his own US kleptocracy, envied those who had such in their countries, and he thought he could skate through just as he had in everything else in his life...and, hey, he played a vast segment of the American population for fools...and still is. With Russian disinformation help.

[old salt]

Russia had already established their foothold in Syria before Trump came to office. In one of his calls to Kislyak, Flynn expressed US condolences for the loss of the Russian military chorus in a plane crash enroute to Syria to perform a Xmas concert for their troops there.

Putin went into Georgia under Bush. He seized Crimea & sent his little green men into Donbas during the Obama terms.
What did he take when Trump was in office ?

[MDlaxfan76]

Russia had already established their foothold in Syria before Trump came to office. In one of his calls to Kislyak, Flynn expressed US condolences for the loss of the Russian military chorus in a plane crash enroute to Syria to perform a Xmas concert for their troops there.

Putin went into Georgia under Bush. He seized Crimea & sent his little green men into Donbas during the Obama terms.
What did he take when Trump was in office ?

Yeah, he was clearly quaking in his boots about Trump.

Yes, the Russians were 'in' Syria as early as 2015, primarily bombing runs. They didn't announce permanent bases in Syria until 2017.

[old salt]

Russia had already established their foothold in Syria before Trump came to office. In one of his calls to Kislyak, Flynn expressed US condolences for the loss of the Russian military chorus in a plane crash enroute to Syria to perform a Xmas concert for their troops there.

Putin went into Georgia under Bush. He seized Crimea & sent his little green men into Donbas during the Obama terms.
What did he take when Trump was in office ?

Yeah, he was clearly quaking in his boots about Trump.

Yes, the Russians were 'in' Syria as early as 2015, primarily bombing runs. They didn't announce permanent bases in Syria until 2017.

...announce permanent bases.

They had a naval base at Tartus since 1971 which they reinforced & upgraded in 2012.
In 2015 they signed a treaty for permanent use of the airbase they already occupied.

Russian military forces were fully deployed & engaged in combat ops well before Trump was elected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_m ... _civil_war

Obama invited the Russians into Syria to haul away the portion of their chemical weapons arsenal they were no longer using.

[MDlaxfan76]

Russia had already established their foothold in Syria before Trump came to office. In one of his calls to Kislyak, Flynn expressed US condolences for the loss of the Russian military chorus in a plane crash enroute to Syria to perform a Xmas concert for their troops there.

Putin went into Georgia under Bush. He seized Crimea & sent his little green men into Donbas during the Obama terms.
What did he take when Trump was in office ?

Yeah, he was clearly quaking in his boots about Trump.

Yes, the Russians were 'in' Syria as early as 2015, primarily bombing runs. They didn't announce permanent bases in Syria until 2017.

...announce permanent bases.

They had a naval base at Tartus since 1971 which they reinforced & upgraded in 2012.
In 2015 they signed a treaty for permanent use of the airbase they already occupied.

Russian military forces were fully deployed & engaged in combat ops well before Trump was elected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_m ... _civil_war

Obama invited the Russians into Syria to haul away the portion of their chemical weapons arsenal they were no longer using.

one pier...and in 2013 it was reported they'd pulled out entirely...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_n ... _in_Tartus

Yes, removal of chemical weapons...but under Trump, announcement of permanent bases.

Putin has very expansive goals and the quid pro quo with Trump during the campaign (and what Flynn was doing) was that the US would stand back, as well as resist or remove sanctions. All under the guise of "getting along better with Putin".

[old salt]

What exactly is your contention about Putin & Trump re. Syria ? The record shows that Russia began increasing their presence to support their ally Assad shortly after the civil war began. That presence grew & continues. Russia succeeded in maintaining Assad in power. Did you expect Trump or Clinton to somehow force Russia to withdraw & abandon Assad, after Obama did nothing to stop Russia from entering Syria & did so little to oppose Assad in the civil war ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_n ... _in_Tartus

The Soviet Union established a facility at Tarsus during the Cold War in accordance with a Soviet–Syrian agreement concluded in 1971, with a view of supporting the Soviet Navy′s 5th Operational Squadron in the Mediterranean, which the Soviets saw as a counterbalance to the U.S. Sixth Fleet headquartered in Italy (then in Gaeta).[13]

In the early 1970s the Soviet Union had similar support points located in Egypt, Ethiopia (Eritrea), Vietnam and elsewhere. In 1977, the Soviet Navy evacuated its Egyptian support bases at Alexandria and Mersa Matruh and transferred the ships and property to Tartus, where it transformed the naval support facility into the 229th Naval and Estuary Vessel Support Division.

In 1984 Moscow upgraded the Tartus support point to the 720th Material-Technical Support Point.[13]

In December 1991 the Soviet Union dissolved; the Soviet Mediterranean 5th Operational Squadron (composed of ships from the Northern Fleet, the Baltic Fleet, and the Black Sea Fleet) ceased to exist in December 1992. Since then, the Russian Navy has occasionally deployed ships and submarines to the Mediterranean Sea.

As Russia wrote off 73% of Syria's $13.4 billion Soviet-era debt in 2005[20] and became Syria's main arms supplier, Russia and Syria held talks about allowing Russia to develop and enlarge its naval facility, so that Russia could strengthen its naval presence in the Mediterranean.[21] Amid Russia's deteriorating relations with the West, because of the 2008 South Ossetia War and of plans to deploy a US missile defense shield in Poland, an unsourced article said that President Assad reportedly agreed to the port's conversion into a permanent Middle East base for Russia's nuclear-armed warships.[22]

In September 2008 a second floating pier was built[by whom?] at the facility, following the discussion of the issue between presidents of Russia and Syria in August.[13] Meanwhile, mass media and officials of Russia, Israel, and Syria were making contradictory statements about Russian warships planning to call at Tartus as well as about the prospects of upgrading the facility to a naval base.[23]

In July 2009, the Russian military announced they would modernise the Tartus facility.[24]

Media reports in March 2012 suggested that Russian special-forces had arrived at the Tartus port.[25] According to a TASS report published in December 2017, the Tartus facility has been used for supplies of Russian armaments and military cargo since June 2012.[13] Back in June 2012, Russian officials denied reports that they were reinforcing the garrison at Tartus with marines.[26] About 50 Russian sailors and specialist technicians were said[by whom?] to be stationed there then.[27]

On 3 August 2012, international media reported that three large Russian amphibious assault ships, carrying hundreds of Russian marines would soon visit Tartus. Earlier reports, quoting a source at the Russian General Staff, said the ships would spend a few days in Tartus and would take on fresh supplies of food and water. British media added that the ships each had up to 120 marines on board. The Russian defence ministry left open the possibility that the ships might dock there at some point for logistical reasons, saying they had every right to do so. The unnamed General Staff source had said that after calling in at Tartus, they would head for the Bosphorus and the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiysk.[28][29] The ships, part of Russia's Northern Fleet, were Aleksandr Otrakovskiy, Georgiy Pobedonosets and Kondopoga, all Ropucha-class landing ships. The source, quoted by Interfax news agency, said one would anchor off Tartus and the other two would use a floating pier, because the port facilities were limited. There was speculation that Russia may begin evacuating its nationals from Syria and deploy Marines to protect personnel and equipment, as the violence intensifies (about 30,000 Russian citizens were said to be living in Syria).[28][30]

In May 2013, a U.S. newspaper reported that Russia had sent a dozen or more warships to patrol waters near Tartus, a move that was seen as a warning to the U.S. and Israel not to intervene in the conflict in Syria.[31]

At the end of June 2013, Russian deputy foreign minister Mikhail Bogdanov said in an interview that the facility did not have any strategic or military importance and that Russia had evacuated all civilian and military personnel from Tartus and Syria (″Presently, the Russian Defense Ministry has not a single person stationed in Syria″).[32] This information was then confirmed by the Russian Defense Ministry.[32]

After the Operational formation of the Russian Navy in the Mediterranean Sea was formed in September 2013, the facility at Tartus was charged with servicing and repairs of the ships of that formation.[13]

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... terranean/

The naval base in Tartus is the only such facility Russia has outside the former Soviet Union. In 2017, Moscow struck a deal with Syrian President Bashar Assad to extend its lease on Tartus for 49 years. The agreement allows Russia to keep up to 11 warships there, including nuclear-powered ones.

Russia has waged a military campaign in Syria since September 2015, allowing Assad's government to reclaim control over most of the country following a devastating civil war.

An air base in the nearby province of Latakia has been the main hub for the Russian military campaign, while the commercial ports in Latakia and Tartus have served as top supply hubs, handling ships with fuel and military equipment in a massive supply effort dubbed the "Syrian Express."

As part of its efforts to restore the Soviet-era practice of keeping warships on a permanent vigil in the Mediterranean, Russia has moved to modernize and expand the naval facility in Tartus.

[dislaxxic]

Rudy Colludy had all SORTS of protection from Billy Barr and Jeffrey Rosen. Why?

As I’ve been harping of late, Billy Barr and Jeffrey Rosen went to great lengths to protect Rudy Giuliani’s efforts to obtain and disseminate what the Intelligence Community already knew was Russian-backed disinformation laundered through Andrii Derkach. That effort included the following:

- For whatever reason, not warning Rudy that the Intelligence Community knew Russia was targeting him for an information operation before he traveled to his December 2019 meeting with Derkach

- Prohibiting SDNY from expanding its existing investigation into Rudy’s foreign influence peddling to include his efforts with Derkach by making EDNY a gate-keeper for any such decisions

- Asking Pittsburgh USA Attorney Scott Brady to accept the information that the IC already knew was Russian disinformation from Rudy
Doing nothing while Rudy continued to share information the IC already knew was Russian disinformation during an election

- After belatedly opening an investigation into the Derkach effort that the IC had known was Russian disinformation for a year, opening it at EDNY and scoping it to ensure that Rudy’s own actions would not be a subject of the investigation

As a result of this remarkable effort, led by the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General, to protect Russian disinformation, DOJ willingly ingested a bunch of Russian disinformation and used it to conduct an investigation into the son of the President’s opponent.

..

[old salt]

Rudy Colludy had all SORTS of protection from Billy Barr and Jeffrey Rosen. Why? As a result of this remarkable effort, led by the Attorney General and Deputy Attorney General, to protect Russian disinformation, DOJ willingly ingested a bunch of Russian disinformation and used it to conduct an investigation into the son of the President’s opponent.

Much easier to ingest it from Christopher Steele, Nellie Ohr & Fusion GPS.