LaxPower Back-Up Stick

a fan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:56 am

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:22 am

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:55 pm

CU77 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:40 pm

But the main reason why intolerance on the left is currently much less important than intolerance on the right is that, as of now, the vast majority of political power is held by the right. At the federal level, the right controls the Presidency (and therefore, as CiC, all branches of the military), all Cabinet Secretaries, the Senate, and the Supreme Court. All the left can do is shout on twitter, and block legislation in the House. The right can do (and is doing) much much much more.

This. Intolerance on the left is---I agree completely---- annoying. Really annoying. And in some cases like the "it's cool to interrupt a Republican at dinner" both rude and really dangerous.

Intolerance on the right, currently, is being written into policy and law. Big, big, big, big difference.

Can you give ONE example of "intolerance" being written into law or policy? This HAS to be one of those!

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... le-housing

and

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... -islanders

Again....can NOT stand tRump as a human being. Doesn't mean he's not doing some good, eh????

Did you read the EO's? Those are nothing burger declarations that carry no legal power. Come on, man.

And you'd like these policies, in they actually had power? Allowing the Federal government to dictate local zoning policies? I didn't peg you as that sort.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:45 pm No real argument to your post MD. My point was more that Antifa is making waves where none should be made in the first place. There are no US gov't supported fascist individuals or groups, that I am aware, so what and who are they fighting? We have no Mussolini or Hitler to worry about. The KKK was as you say standing for the supremacy of a race and was wrong....but at the time of their peak our country and some of our US leaders were still dabbling in support of slavery.

In the end, my comparison between the two, boils down to they both served a purpose of ignorance and embarrassment for our country and our people.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:21 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:45 pm No real argument to your post MD. My point was more that Antifa is making waves where none should be made in the first place. There are no US gov't supported fascist individuals or groups, that I am aware, so what and who are they fighting? We have no Mussolini or Hitler to worry about. The KKK was as you say standing for the supremacy of a race and was wrong....but at the time of their peak our country and some of our US leaders were still dabbling in support of slavery.

In the end, my comparison between the two, boils down to they both served a purpose of ignorance and embarrassment for our country and our people.

Again, I think no one on here is defending the tactics of Antifa.

But you have some of your history pretty messed up. Yes, the KKK got its start post Civil War in reaction to the 'carpet baggers', but it died out in the early 1870's. It's second founding was in 1915 the Jim Crow period. I don't think it would be accurate that 'some of our leaders were dabbling in support of slavery' during Jim Crow. Certainly not any Presidents! Though Wilson to Hoover, candidates were afraid to condemn the KKK for fearing to lose voters. It died out again in the late 1920's, only to reemerge in the 1950's and continues to today. But perhaps you mean the segregationists, who indeed were 'dabbling' in white supremacy. They sometimes were secret members of the KKK, as were local pols, police chiefs, etc.

I very much disagree that there isn't a fascist, racist, nativist threat today. Indeed, we have actually elected this ideology into the White House. Certainly many of the most unabashed, self-identified white supremacists think Trump represents their beliefs. And he enthusiastically retweets and repeats the themes from known such white supremacists from all over the world.

We also have had far more white nationalist terrorist caused threats in America in the past decade than from any other terrorist ideology.

I can, and have, along with other posters, described the fascist, racist, nativist threat now for the past 3 years, with each prediction painfully coming true. They're on the march.

So, I think it's actually quite rational to perceive such a threat.

It's the tactics of Antifa that we reject, not their purpose. That's wholly different from the KKK.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:54 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:21 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:45 pm No real argument to your post MD. My point was more that Antifa is making waves where none should be made in the first place. There are no US gov't supported fascist individuals or groups, that I am aware, so what and who are they fighting? We have no Mussolini or Hitler to worry about. The KKK was as you say standing for the supremacy of a race and was wrong....but at the time of their peak our country and some of our US leaders were still dabbling in support of slavery.

In the end, my comparison between the two, boils down to they both served a purpose of ignorance and embarrassment for our country and our people.

Again, I think no one on here is defending the tactics of Antifa.

But you have some of your history pretty messed up. Yes, the KKK got its start post Civil War in reaction to the 'carpet baggers', but it died out in the early 1870's. It's second founding was in 1915 the Jim Crow period. I don't think it would be accurate that 'some of our leaders were dabbling in support of slavery' during Jim Crow. Certainly not any Presidents! Though Wilson to Hoover, candidates were afraid to condemn the KKK for fearing to lose voters. It died out again in the late 1920's, only to reemerge in the 1950's and continues to today. But perhaps you mean the segregationists, who indeed were 'dabbling' in white supremacy. They sometimes were secret members of the KKK, as were local pols, police chiefs, etc.

I very much disagree that there isn't a fascist, racist, nativist threat today. Indeed, we have actually elected this ideology into the White House. Certainly many of the most unabashed, self-identified white supremacists think Trump represents their beliefs. And he enthusiastically retweets and repeats the themes from known such white supremacists from all over the world.

We also have had far more white nationalist terrorist caused threats in America in the past decade than from any other terrorist ideology.

I can, and have, along with other posters, described the fascist, racist, nativist threat now for the past 3 years, with each prediction painfully coming true. They're on the march.

So, I think it's actually quite rational to perceive such a threat.

It's the tactics of Antifa that we reject, not their purpose. That's wholly different from the KKK.

You just brought up the stickey wicket that there is no answer to. The first amendment, if they abide by local laws and have the proper permits they have their constitutional right to March and act like idiots. My solution, at least in part is to ignore them and deny them the publicity that they crave.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:17 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:54 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:21 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:45 pm No real argument to your post MD. My point was more that Antifa is making waves where none should be made in the first place. There are no US gov't supported fascist individuals or groups, that I am aware, so what and who are they fighting? We have no Mussolini or Hitler to worry about. The KKK was as you say standing for the supremacy of a race and was wrong....but at the time of their peak our country and some of our US leaders were still dabbling in support of slavery.

In the end, my comparison between the two, boils down to they both served a purpose of ignorance and embarrassment for our country and our people.

Again, I think no one on here is defending the tactics of Antifa.

But you have some of your history pretty messed up. Yes, the KKK got its start post Civil War in reaction to the 'carpet baggers', but it died out in the early 1870's. It's second founding was in 1915 the Jim Crow period. I don't think it would be accurate that 'some of our leaders were dabbling in support of slavery' during Jim Crow. Certainly not any Presidents! Though Wilson to Hoover, candidates were afraid to condemn the KKK for fearing to lose voters. It died out again in the late 1920's, only to reemerge in the 1950's and continues to today. But perhaps you mean the segregationists, who indeed were 'dabbling' in white supremacy. They sometimes were secret members of the KKK, as were local pols, police chiefs, etc.

I very much disagree that there isn't a fascist, racist, nativist threat today. Indeed, we have actually elected this ideology into the White House. Certainly many of the most unabashed, self-identified white supremacists think Trump represents their beliefs. And he enthusiastically retweets and repeats the themes from known such white supremacists from all over the world.

We also have had far more white nationalist terrorist caused threats in America in the past decade than from any other terrorist ideology.

I can, and have, along with other posters, described the fascist, racist, nativist threat now for the past 3 years, with each prediction painfully coming true. They're on the march.

So, I think it's actually quite rational to perceive such a threat.

It's the tactics of Antifa that we reject, not their purpose. That's wholly different from the KKK.

You just brought up the stickey wicket that there is no answer to. The first amendment, if they abide by local laws and have the proper permits they have their constitutional right to March and act like idiots. My solution, at least in part is to ignore them and deny them the publicity that they crave.

Yup, the ACLU defended the neo-Nazi's right to march in Skokie.

My solution isn't to ignore them, but rather to take it very seriously, reinstitute and fully fund the anti-terrorist task group in the FBI focused on the violent white nationalists, put those actually fomenting violence in jail, and take down all 'speech' that calls for actual violence.

But that's not going to happen with the current Administration.

So, vote them out of office. Repudiate them thoroughly within the system.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:24 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:17 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:54 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:21 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:45 pm No real argument to your post MD. My point was more that Antifa is making waves where none should be made in the first place. There are no US gov't supported fascist individuals or groups, that I am aware, so what and who are they fighting? We have no Mussolini or Hitler to worry about. The KKK was as you say standing for the supremacy of a race and was wrong....but at the time of their peak our country and some of our US leaders were still dabbling in support of slavery.

In the end, my comparison between the two, boils down to they both served a purpose of ignorance and embarrassment for our country and our people.

Again, I think no one on here is defending the tactics of Antifa.

But you have some of your history pretty messed up. Yes, the KKK got its start post Civil War in reaction to the 'carpet baggers', but it died out in the early 1870's. It's second founding was in 1915 the Jim Crow period. I don't think it would be accurate that 'some of our leaders were dabbling in support of slavery' during Jim Crow. Certainly not any Presidents! Though Wilson to Hoover, candidates were afraid to condemn the KKK for fearing to lose voters. It died out again in the late 1920's, only to reemerge in the 1950's and continues to today. But perhaps you mean the segregationists, who indeed were 'dabbling' in white supremacy. They sometimes were secret members of the KKK, as were local pols, police chiefs, etc.

I very much disagree that there isn't a fascist, racist, nativist threat today. Indeed, we have actually elected this ideology into the White House. Certainly many of the most unabashed, self-identified white supremacists think Trump represents their beliefs. And he enthusiastically retweets and repeats the themes from known such white supremacists from all over the world.

We also have had far more white nationalist terrorist caused threats in America in the past decade than from any other terrorist ideology.

I can, and have, along with other posters, described the fascist, racist, nativist threat now for the past 3 years, with each prediction painfully coming true. They're on the march.

So, I think it's actually quite rational to perceive such a threat.

It's the tactics of Antifa that we reject, not their purpose. That's wholly different from the KKK.

You just brought up the stickey wicket that there is no answer to. The first amendment, if they abide by local laws and have the proper permits they have their constitutional right to March and act like idiots. My solution, at least in part is to ignore them and deny them the publicity that they crave.

Yup, the ACLU defended the neo-Nazi's right to march in Skokie.

My solution isn't to ignore them, but rather to take it very seriously, reinstitute and fully fund the anti-terrorist task group in the FBI focused on the violent white nationalists, put those actually fomenting violence in jail, and take down all 'speech' that calls for actual violence.

But that's not going to happen with the current Administration.

So, vote them out of office. Repudiate them thoroughly within the system.

Using their right to March gives them exactly what they want. If 300 of these jokers show up there will be 1000 members of the media to cover it and who knows how many counter protesters and various other curiosity seekers. If violence breaks out and blood is shed... that is the entire objective. The media is happy because they get ratings, the jokes are happy because they got free publicity, the counter protesters are happy because they got to thump some skulls.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:11 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:24 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:17 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:54 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:21 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:45 pm No real argument to your post MD. My point was more that Antifa is making waves where none should be made in the first place. There are no US gov't supported fascist individuals or groups, that I am aware, so what and who are they fighting? We have no Mussolini or Hitler to worry about. The KKK was as you say standing for the supremacy of a race and was wrong....but at the time of their peak our country and some of our US leaders were still dabbling in support of slavery.

In the end, my comparison between the two, boils down to they both served a purpose of ignorance and embarrassment for our country and our people.

Again, I think no one on here is defending the tactics of Antifa.

But you have some of your history pretty messed up. Yes, the KKK got its start post Civil War in reaction to the 'carpet baggers', but it died out in the early 1870's. It's second founding was in 1915 the Jim Crow period. I don't think it would be accurate that 'some of our leaders were dabbling in support of slavery' during Jim Crow. Certainly not any Presidents! Though Wilson to Hoover, candidates were afraid to condemn the KKK for fearing to lose voters. It died out again in the late 1920's, only to reemerge in the 1950's and continues to today. But perhaps you mean the segregationists, who indeed were 'dabbling' in white supremacy. They sometimes were secret members of the KKK, as were local pols, police chiefs, etc.

I very much disagree that there isn't a fascist, racist, nativist threat today. Indeed, we have actually elected this ideology into the White House. Certainly many of the most unabashed, self-identified white supremacists think Trump represents their beliefs. And he enthusiastically retweets and repeats the themes from known such white supremacists from all over the world.

We also have had far more white nationalist terrorist caused threats in America in the past decade than from any other terrorist ideology.

I can, and have, along with other posters, described the fascist, racist, nativist threat now for the past 3 years, with each prediction painfully coming true. They're on the march.

So, I think it's actually quite rational to perceive such a threat.

It's the tactics of Antifa that we reject, not their purpose. That's wholly different from the KKK.

You just brought up the stickey wicket that there is no answer to. The first amendment, if they abide by local laws and have the proper permits they have their constitutional right to March and act like idiots. My solution, at least in part is to ignore them and deny them the publicity that they crave.

Yup, the ACLU defended the neo-Nazi's right to march in Skokie.

My solution isn't to ignore them, but rather to take it very seriously, reinstitute and fully fund the anti-terrorist task group in the FBI focused on the violent white nationalists, put those actually fomenting violence in jail, and take down all 'speech' that calls for actual violence.

But that's not going to happen with the current Administration.

So, vote them out of office. Repudiate them thoroughly within the system.

Using their right to March gives them exactly what they want. If 300 of these jokers show up there will be 1000 members of the media to cover it and who knows how many counter protesters and various other curiosity seekers. If violence breaks out and blood is shed... that is the entire objective. The media is happy because they get ratings, the jokes are happy because they got free publicity, the counter protesters are happy because they got to thump some skulls.

Unfortunately, that's a pretty accurate description of the reality of the dynamics, though I think you're exaggerating the media attention aspect (but certainly directionally correct). I just don't think that most of the media actually is 'happy' to see the violence nor the racism, etc. But they do consider it important, newsworthy, and the adage 'if it bleeds it leads' is all about the public's seemingly insatiable appetite for such.

Unless we actually want to ban such bigoted speech altogether, I don't see a plausible way to avoid this dynamic.

But let's not pretend that this movement is constrained to those who carry swastikas and the like. They're the most virulent, public facing sorts, but most of this hate is underground, dark web, and on non-major social networks. Very large numbers of participants, unfortunately.

It bubbles out into more mainstream social media. Just look at some the full-on racist garbage that gets posted, really ugly and calling for violence. In addition to the anonymous and semi-anonymous stuff, we need only look at what gets posted in 'private' FB groups by police and border patrol agents to be alarmed at what is spewing even from those for whom it is wholly inappropriate, given their positions of actual authority and power over others.

And anyone who thinks that this isn't emanating from the White House resident is sticking their head in the sand. The white supremacists sure as heck think he's speaking for them! Steven Miller is a particularly toxic influence, but Trump's predilection for right wing media, including the feeds of virulent racists around the world, has him in an echo chamber of bigotry in which he's an active participant.

We need to repudiate this bigotry at the ballot box.
Break the fever in the GOP.

Or the backlash is going to be a lot worse than Antifa.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:09 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:11 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:24 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:17 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:54 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:21 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:45 pm No real argument to your post MD. My point was more that Antifa is making waves where none should be made in the first place. There are no US gov't supported fascist individuals or groups, that I am aware, so what and who are they fighting? We have no Mussolini or Hitler to worry about. The KKK was as you say standing for the supremacy of a race and was wrong....but at the time of their peak our country and some of our US leaders were still dabbling in support of slavery.

In the end, my comparison between the two, boils down to they both served a purpose of ignorance and embarrassment for our country and our people.

Again, I think no one on here is defending the tactics of Antifa.

But you have some of your history pretty messed up. Yes, the KKK got its start post Civil War in reaction to the 'carpet baggers', but it died out in the early 1870's. It's second founding was in 1915 the Jim Crow period. I don't think it would be accurate that 'some of our leaders were dabbling in support of slavery' during Jim Crow. Certainly not any Presidents! Though Wilson to Hoover, candidates were afraid to condemn the KKK for fearing to lose voters. It died out again in the late 1920's, only to reemerge in the 1950's and continues to today. But perhaps you mean the segregationists, who indeed were 'dabbling' in white supremacy. They sometimes were secret members of the KKK, as were local pols, police chiefs, etc.

I very much disagree that there isn't a fascist, racist, nativist threat today. Indeed, we have actually elected this ideology into the White House. Certainly many of the most unabashed, self-identified white supremacists think Trump represents their beliefs. And he enthusiastically retweets and repeats the themes from known such white supremacists from all over the world.

We also have had far more white nationalist terrorist caused threats in America in the past decade than from any other terrorist ideology.

I can, and have, along with other posters, described the fascist, racist, nativist threat now for the past 3 years, with each prediction painfully coming true. They're on the march.

So, I think it's actually quite rational to perceive such a threat.

It's the tactics of Antifa that we reject, not their purpose. That's wholly different from the KKK.

You just brought up the stickey wicket that there is no answer to. The first amendment, if they abide by local laws and have the proper permits they have their constitutional right to March and act like idiots. My solution, at least in part is to ignore them and deny them the publicity that they crave.

Yup, the ACLU defended the neo-Nazi's right to march in Skokie.

My solution isn't to ignore them, but rather to take it very seriously, reinstitute and fully fund the anti-terrorist task group in the FBI focused on the violent white nationalists, put those actually fomenting violence in jail, and take down all 'speech' that calls for actual violence.

But that's not going to happen with the current Administration.

So, vote them out of office. Repudiate them thoroughly within the system.

Using their right to March gives them exactly what they want. If 300 of these jokers show up there will be 1000 members of the media to cover it and who knows how many counter protesters and various other curiosity seekers. If violence breaks out and blood is shed... that is the entire objective. The media is happy because they get ratings, the jokes are happy because they got free publicity, the counter protesters are happy because they got to thump some skulls.

Unfortunately, that's a pretty accurate description of the reality of the dynamics, though I think you're exaggerating the media attention aspect (but certainly directionally correct). I just don't think that most of the media actually is 'happy' to see the violence nor the racism, etc. But they do consider it important, newsworthy, and the adage 'if it bleeds it leads' is all about the public's seemingly insatiable appetite for such.

Unless we actually want to ban such bigoted speech altogether, I don't see a plausible way to avoid this dynamic.

But let's not pretend that this movement is constrained to those who carry swastikas and the like. They're the most virulent, public facing sorts, but most of this hate is underground, dark web, and on non-major social networks. Very large numbers of participants, unfortunately.

It bubbles out into more mainstream social media. Just look at some the full-on racist garbage that gets posted, really ugly and calling for violence. In addition to the anonymous and semi-anonymous stuff, we need only look at what gets posted in 'private' FB groups by police and border patrol agents to be alarmed at what is spewing even from those for whom it is wholly inappropriate, given their positions of actual authority and power over others.

And anyone who thinks that this isn't emanating from the White House resident is sticking their head in the sand. The white supremacists sure as heck think he's speaking for them! Steven Miller is a particularly toxic influence, but Trump's predilection for right wing media, including the feeds of virulent racists around the world, has him in an echo chamber of bigotry in which he's an active participant.

We need to repudiate this bigotry at the ballot box.
Break the fever in the GOP.

Or the backlash is going to be a lot worse than Antifa.

You may not agree with me but my analogy is based on an old cliché. If a bunch of jokers show up for a rally and no one is there to hear them speak or watch them march... did the rally ever happen at all? Way back in my army days one of the members of my platoon was a hard core South Carolina KKK fanatic. His hatred and venomous use of the "n" word caused a hell of a lot of trouble among the black members of my platoon. He was always looking to pick a fight. The most enlightening words about this individual came from a black soldier and very close friend of mine. We were discussing this one day and Emmitt said this... I grew up in rural Kentucky, my family and I have listened to his kind all of our lives. You learn to ignore them because they are not worth the trouble of talking to them. They don't just hate black people... they hate everybody that is not like them. They will hate you for your religion, they will hate you for being a yankee, they will hate you if you are not a southern Baptist. Sooner or later they go away. They are not smart enough to understand their way of thinking died years ago. We can't regulate who people will hate. Those marchers a few years back shouting "pigs in a blanket... fry em like bacon" they were angry because some of the police were bad apples. They took their anger out on every police officer. Sadly just this morning there was video of some young people in Harlem and Brooklyn throwing buckets of water on the cops and throwing the empty buckets at the cops. What did the cops do... ignored them... walked away and carried on with their jobs. There is too much hate going on all around from a lot of people to wonder if as a nation we can get past it...

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:53 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:09 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:11 pm

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:24 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:17 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:54 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:21 am

youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:45 pm No real argument to your post MD. My point was more that Antifa is making waves where none should be made in the first place. There are no US gov't supported fascist individuals or groups, that I am aware, so what and who are they fighting? We have no Mussolini or Hitler to worry about. The KKK was as you say standing for the supremacy of a race and was wrong....but at the time of their peak our country and some of our US leaders were still dabbling in support of slavery.

In the end, my comparison between the two, boils down to they both served a purpose of ignorance and embarrassment for our country and our people.

Again, I think no one on here is defending the tactics of Antifa.

But you have some of your history pretty messed up. Yes, the KKK got its start post Civil War in reaction to the 'carpet baggers', but it died out in the early 1870's. It's second founding was in 1915 the Jim Crow period. I don't think it would be accurate that 'some of our leaders were dabbling in support of slavery' during Jim Crow. Certainly not any Presidents! Though Wilson to Hoover, candidates were afraid to condemn the KKK for fearing to lose voters. It died out again in the late 1920's, only to reemerge in the 1950's and continues to today. But perhaps you mean the segregationists, who indeed were 'dabbling' in white supremacy. They sometimes were secret members of the KKK, as were local pols, police chiefs, etc.

I very much disagree that there isn't a fascist, racist, nativist threat today. Indeed, we have actually elected this ideology into the White House. Certainly many of the most unabashed, self-identified white supremacists think Trump represents their beliefs. And he enthusiastically retweets and repeats the themes from known such white supremacists from all over the world.

We also have had far more white nationalist terrorist caused threats in America in the past decade than from any other terrorist ideology.

I can, and have, along with other posters, described the fascist, racist, nativist threat now for the past 3 years, with each prediction painfully coming true. They're on the march.

So, I think it's actually quite rational to perceive such a threat.

It's the tactics of Antifa that we reject, not their purpose. That's wholly different from the KKK.

You just brought up the stickey wicket that there is no answer to. The first amendment, if they abide by local laws and have the proper permits they have their constitutional right to March and act like idiots. My solution, at least in part is to ignore them and deny them the publicity that they crave.

Yup, the ACLU defended the neo-Nazi's right to march in Skokie.

My solution isn't to ignore them, but rather to take it very seriously, reinstitute and fully fund the anti-terrorist task group in the FBI focused on the violent white nationalists, put those actually fomenting violence in jail, and take down all 'speech' that calls for actual violence.

But that's not going to happen with the current Administration.

So, vote them out of office. Repudiate them thoroughly within the system.

Using their right to March gives them exactly what they want. If 300 of these jokers show up there will be 1000 members of the media to cover it and who knows how many counter protesters and various other curiosity seekers. If violence breaks out and blood is shed... that is the entire objective. The media is happy because they get ratings, the jokes are happy because they got free publicity, the counter protesters are happy because they got to thump some skulls.

Unfortunately, that's a pretty accurate description of the reality of the dynamics, though I think you're exaggerating the media attention aspect (but certainly directionally correct). I just don't think that most of the media actually is 'happy' to see the violence nor the racism, etc. But they do consider it important, newsworthy, and the adage 'if it bleeds it leads' is all about the public's seemingly insatiable appetite for such.

Unless we actually want to ban such bigoted speech altogether, I don't see a plausible way to avoid this dynamic.

But let's not pretend that this movement is constrained to those who carry swastikas and the like. They're the most virulent, public facing sorts, but most of this hate is underground, dark web, and on non-major social networks. Very large numbers of participants, unfortunately.

It bubbles out into more mainstream social media. Just look at some the full-on racist garbage that gets posted, really ugly and calling for violence. In addition to the anonymous and semi-anonymous stuff, we need only look at what gets posted in 'private' FB groups by police and border patrol agents to be alarmed at what is spewing even from those for whom it is wholly inappropriate, given their positions of actual authority and power over others.

And anyone who thinks that this isn't emanating from the White House resident is sticking their head in the sand. The white supremacists sure as heck think he's speaking for them! Steven Miller is a particularly toxic influence, but Trump's predilection for right wing media, including the feeds of virulent racists around the world, has him in an echo chamber of bigotry in which he's an active participant.

We need to repudiate this bigotry at the ballot box.
Break the fever in the GOP.

Or the backlash is going to be a lot worse than Antifa.

You may not agree with me but my analogy is based on an old cliché. If a bunch of jokers show up for a rally and no one is there to hear them speak or watch them march... did the rally ever happen at all? Way back in my army days one of the members of my platoon was a hard core South Carolina KKK fanatic. His hatred and venomous use of the "n" word caused a hell of a lot of trouble among the black members of my platoon. He was always looking to pick a fight. The most enlightening words about this individual came from a black soldier and very close friend of mine. We were discussing this one day and Emmitt said this... I grew up in rural Kentucky, my family and I have listened to his kind all of our lives. You learn to ignore them because they are not worth the trouble of talking to them. They don't just hate black people... they hate everybody that is not like them. They will hate you for your religion, they will hate you for being a yankee, they will hate you if you are not a southern Baptist. Sooner or later they go away. They are not smart enough to understand their way of thinking died years ago. We can't regulate who people will hate. Those marchers a few years back shouting "pigs in a blanket... fry em like bacon" they were angry because some of the police were bad apples. They took their anger out on every police officer. Sadly just this morning there was video of some young people in Harlem and Brooklyn throwing buckets of water on the cops and throwing the empty buckets at the cops. What did the cops do... ignored them... walked away and carried on with their jobs. There is too much hate going on all around from a lot of people to wonder if as a nation we can get past it...

That is certainly a sound philosophy for life.

And workable in practice as long as neither of two things exist:

1) That all can be persuaded to ignore the 'haters'.

2) That the 'haters' don't actually acquire control of the levers of political power.

#1 would be nice to achieve though is problematic when the 'haters' find situations already fraught with tension, e.g. the removal of Confederate statues from non-museum public display, the invitation to campus of a speaker with known incendiary views, etc. When 'haters' show up in force in such situations, it's pretty impossible to persuade others who do not hold their views to simply 'ignore' them. And indeed, that's been the strategy of hard right, to look for or to manufacture situations that are already fraught with tension and then gin up more. This is not unique to the hard right, it's just that that's where the vast majority of this energy is coming from these days. They are exploiting conflict or creating opportunities for conflict. (I'd note that exploitation of conflict has also been fomented by the Russian active measures campaign, with Russians with false American identities encouraging both left and right to march in opposition to one another and to be prepared for violence from the other side.)

On #2, Unfortunately, the 'haters' have actually gained significant political power, with right-wing race baiting rampant from day 1 of the Trump Campaign to his ascendancy to power to the near total capitulation of the GOP to this ethos.

When we see the racist/violent social media posts of horrifyingly large #'s of police and Border Patrol agents, those with badges and guns and the sworn duty to protect all, not just the favored, we really can't 'ignore' this as just one racist using the 'N-word' within a platoon of men who are not.

It's more akin to being on a base in which the base commander and many of his subordinates down to the sergeant in charge of your barracks are all not only using the 'N-word' privately, but are throwing just the black guys in the brig because they don't lick their boots daily, or encouraging a 'Code Red' on the basis of race...with the General at the top of the chain of command sending signals of approval, threats of worse, yet denying that anything is amiss...

CU77 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:57 pm

thatsmell wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:09 pmWhat examples can you give of intolerance that’s being written into policy.

SCOTUS just ruled, 5-4, that extreme partisan gerrymandering is just fine with them. And most state legislatures are controlled by the right. This cements their control, and gives them a big boost in the House.

thatsmell wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:16 pmIn Maryland, we get gerrymandering too.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:55 am CNN’s Don Lemon Sued for Alleged Assault

The suit claims that Lemon later approached Hice and “put his hand down the front of his own shorts, and vigorously rubbed his genitalia, removed his hand and shoved his index and middle fingers in Plaintiff’s moustache and under Plaintiff’s nose.”

“Hice said Lemon repeatedly shoved his fingers in his face and asked, ‘Do you like pu$Sy or d1cck?’ Hice claims he left the bar ‘shocked and humiliated,'” Mediaite reports.

He is guilty until proven innocent.

CU77 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:36 pm

thatsmell wrote: ↑Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:16 pmIn Maryland, we get gerrymandering too.

That's why I said "most". I think it's bad whoever does it.