LaxPower Back-Up Stick

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:17 pmRestated, 'if you're going to lump together muslims and extremists, you can't whine about white people being lumped together as racists cause you are one'.

Undeniably. It wasn't a coincidence that he used whites and racists as the example for comparison. I like it...

An update on the question of Johns Hopkins as a slave holder a year after the original claim.

jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:25 am An update on the question of Johns Hopkins as a slave holder a year after the original claim.

Thanks.

Sounds like this has the potential to be a worthy exercise.

From the article, I didn't really see the argument that Hopkins definitely never owned slaves to be well explained, but I also didn't see the conclusion that he definitely did to be clear either. More of a "hey, how else would we explain this?" question.

Seems like it's certainly possible, and it's perplexing how to explain it if not...but that doesn't mean there isn't an explanation simply not (yet, if ever) known.

so, that'll be the discussion...

What's less disputable is the bequest Hopkins made establishing the school, which was explicitly addressing race in a positive way that was quite rare in that era of such bequests. Honoring that intention should indeed make the University, it's alums and students, proud to be associated with their school.

More interesting to me would be the exploration of how race actually influenced various policy choices over the generations that followed, some of which was exemplary and progressive, some of which is quite embarrassingly prejudiced and harmful.

I'm a little biased positively about JHU, as a Baltimorean, took some classes there myself, my mom got her degree there, her uncle - my great uncle was GWC Whiting, my dad's cousin was a grad, served later on the big Board, I'm on the Advisory Bd of the Whiting Center for Leadership Education...and I've spent a whole lot of time at Homewood field!

That said, Hopkins, like any institution, has a complicated history, reflecting much of the zeitgeist of each era. If anything, I've been frustrated as a Baltimorean that the institution has not played as positive role in the life of the City as it might have. If this sort of thing causes a more positively activist role, I'm all for it.

Some graduates of color from the nation’s top military schools endure what they describe as a hostile environment.

Eight years after he graduated from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, Geoffrey Easterling remains astonished by the Confederate history still memorialized on the storied academy’s campus – the six-foot-tall painting of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in the library, the barracks dormitory named for Lee and the Lee Gate on Lee Road.

As a Black student at the Army academy, he remembers feeling “devastated” when a classmate pointed out the slave also depicted in the life-size Lee painting. “How did the only Black person who got on a wall in this entire humongous school — how is it a slave?” he recalls thinking.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/we- ... -academies

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:13 pm Some graduates of color from the nation’s top military schools endure what they describe as a hostile environment.

Eight years after he graduated from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, Geoffrey Easterling remains astonished by the Confederate history still memorialized on the storied academy’s campus – the six-foot-tall painting of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in the library, the barracks dormitory named for Lee and the Lee Gate on Lee Road.

As a Black student at the Army academy, he remembers feeling “devastated” when a classmate pointed out the slave also depicted in the life-size Lee painting. “How did the only Black person who got on a wall in this entire humongous school — how is it a slave?” he recalls thinking.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/we- ... -academies

ouch.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:16 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:13 pm Some graduates of color from the nation’s top military schools endure what they describe as a hostile environment.

Eight years after he graduated from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, Geoffrey Easterling remains astonished by the Confederate history still memorialized on the storied academy’s campus – the six-foot-tall painting of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in the library, the barracks dormitory named for Lee and the Lee Gate on Lee Road.

As a Black student at the Army academy, he remembers feeling “devastated” when a classmate pointed out the slave also depicted in the life-size Lee painting. “How did the only Black person who got on a wall in this entire humongous school — how is it a slave?” he recalls thinking.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/we- ... -academies

ouch.

That’s what spray paint is for.

PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:22 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:16 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:13 pm Some graduates of color from the nation’s top military schools endure what they describe as a hostile environment.

Eight years after he graduated from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, Geoffrey Easterling remains astonished by the Confederate history still memorialized on the storied academy’s campus – the six-foot-tall painting of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in the library, the barracks dormitory named for Lee and the Lee Gate on Lee Road.

As a Black student at the Army academy, he remembers feeling “devastated” when a classmate pointed out the slave also depicted in the life-size Lee painting. “How did the only Black person who got on a wall in this entire humongous school — how is it a slave?” he recalls thinking.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/we- ... -academies

ouch.

That’s what spray paint is for.

Col. Robert E. Lee was an officer in the U.S. Army with a lengthy and valorous service to the country including being Superintendent of USMA from 1852-1855 and, perhaps, why his portrait remains there and would not read much more into than that unless someone knows of a similar portrait of another graduate who later served in the Confederate Army (and there were many graduates who later served the Confederacy and one was Superintendent but no portraits of P.G.T Beauregard who actually commanded Confederate troops who took Fort Sumter starting the Civil War).

That said, the one portrait of Lee in his Confederate uniform (in the library) should not be prominently displayed and relocated elsewhere. The other images show Lee in his U.S. Army uniform.

BTW, there are two public displays of Benedict Arnold at the New York Military Museum in Saratoga NY and also at the Saratoga Battlefield (Boot Monument)

https://www.nationalguard.mil/News/Arti ... ry-museum/

https://www.nps.gov/places/boot-monument.htm

https://www.nps.gov/sara/planyourvisit/ ... nument.htm

To be clear, both monuments at the battlefield that reference Arnold do not contain his name. The southern niche of Saratoga Monument remains empty, signifying General Benedict Arnold’s heroism in 1777 overshadowed by his later treachery. As does a commemoration at the U.S. Military Academy in West Point, plaques hanging in the Old Cadet Chapel recognize all the Revolutionary War's generals except one. Arnold's plaque reads: "Major General. Born 1740."

There is no reason to be so absolutist about some of this stuff and erase parts of our history. Context is important and should be part of the analysis as well as the facts of the same history.

It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 pm It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

You “Woke”!!!…..Don’t want to erase that history…

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 pm It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

Certainly, but we should also know very overtly that the difficult decision was treason against the government of the United States of America by participating in an armed insurrection.

Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:02 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 pm It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

Certainly, but we should also know very overtly that the difficult decision was treason against the government of the United States of America by participating in an armed insurrection.

Those were Patriots in the South!

How soon will these jokers want statues of Hitler at every WWII memorial...

"...good people of both sides" - o d

Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:02 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 pm It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

Certainly, but we should also know very overtly that the difficult decision was treason against the government of the United States of America by participating in an armed insurrection.

For the purpose of protecting and perpetuating a "way of life" that featured a system of labor that relied on purchased and bred enslaved human resources. Too much CRT?

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:12 pm

Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:02 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 pm It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

Certainly, but we should also know very overtly that the difficult decision was treason against the government of the United States of America by participating in an armed insurrection.

Those were Patriots in the South!

Freedom fighters

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:50 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:12 pm

Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:02 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 pm It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

Certainly, but we should also know very overtly that the difficult decision was treason against the government of the United States of America by participating in an armed insurrection.

Those were Patriots in the South!

Freedom fighters

Carolina Patriots have a nice ring to it!

seacoaster wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:24 pm

Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:02 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 pm It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

Certainly, but we should also know very overtly that the difficult decision was treason against the government of the United States of America by participating in an armed insurrection.

For the purpose of protecting and perpetuating a "way of life" that featured a system of labor that relied on purchased and bred enslaved human resources. Too much CRT?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/02/politics ... index.html

The South Shall Rise Again.

Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:02 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 pm It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

Certainly, but we should also know very overtly that the difficult decision was treason against the government of the United States of America by participating in an armed insurrection.

The large number serving in the US Army who left to join the Confederate Army indicates that they did not regard it as treason.

The winners write the history. In the US revolution, the British subjects now admired as our founding fathers were considered traitors by their King & country.

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:02 pm

Kismet wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:02 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 pm It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

Certainly, but we should also know very overtly that the difficult decision was treason against the government of the United States of America by participating in an armed insurrection.

The large number serving in the US Army who left to join the Confederate Army indicates that they did not regard it as treason.

The winners write the history. In the US revolution, the British subjects now admired as our founding fathers were considered traitors by their King & country.

You “woke”!! That is CRT talk!!

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 pm It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

No one is erasing the history. But I think it's not too much to ask to not CELEBRATE active rebellion to protect slavery.

Now you can say that each man fought for their own reason and all that.....but you can't escape the question that so many wish to avoid, and the question that makes each man's motivation for fighting for the South immaterial, as it relates to the outcome.

And that question is: what would have happened if the South won?

And when you answer that question, it becomes obvious to even the most obtuse observer that celebrating these men is, to put it politely, in poor taste.

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:12 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:26 pm It is important not to erase the history that memorializes what a difficult decision it was for Americans to choose between attacking or defending their home states.

No one is erasing the history. But I think it's not too much to ask to not CELEBRATE active rebellion to protect slavery.

Now you can say that each man fought for their own reason and all that.....but you can't escape the question that so many wish to avoid, and the question that makes each man's motivation for fighting for the South immaterial, as it relates to the outcome.

And that question is: what would have happened if the South won?

And when you answer that question, it becomes obvious to even the most obtuse observer that celebrating these men is, to put it politely, in poor taste.

Yet we still celebrate our founding fathers.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 115579444/