Possible face-off changes

[Chousnake]

Maybe we should do away with goalies...no goalies allowed in basketball and goalies can have an outsized impact on the game...

Seriously, having a great face-off group, whether a win it to yourself guy or a battle it out group should matter...but we keep seeing contests where the initial face-off is won by the 'better' FOGO, and yet the possession is so contested, ride is so hard, that early turnovers end up resulting in similar actual offensive possessions.

Obviously dominating that battle is an advantage. Being dominated is a disadvantage.

But nevertheless, a hot goalie and stout defense can create the stops necessary to create enough O chances to win if the O is efficient...it's a team game.

Coaching the face-off unit is just as important as finding a good face-off man.

So is officiating the faceoff, which does not happen.

It's the most over officiated play in lax by a long shot. I am not a face off expert, but it appears that 30-50% of face offs result in a whistle at some point with some kind of violation. That is just too many stoppages and too much officiating. And when the knowledgeable fan can't tell why one player or another committed a violation, something is wrong. I don't want to eliminate the face off at all, nor do I want rule changes every two years as we have been seeing, but I sure would like something done about the way the face off is officiated. Something is causing the violations and some officials call more violations than others. It takes away from the sport when so many face offs are decided by the officials. What is the fix for that?

[youthathletics]

Maybe we should do away with goalies...no goalies allowed in basketball and goalies can have an outsized impact on the game...

Seriously, having a great face-off group, whether a win it to yourself guy or a battle it out group should matter...but we keep seeing contests where the initial face-off is won by the 'better' FOGO, and yet the possession is so contested, ride is so hard, that early turnovers end up resulting in similar actual offensive possessions.

Obviously dominating that battle is an advantage. Being dominated is a disadvantage.

But nevertheless, a hot goalie and stout defense can create the stops necessary to create enough O chances to win if the O is efficient...it's a team game.

Coaching the face-off unit is just as important as finding a good face-off man.

So is officiating the faceoff, which does not happen.

i'm with you on a lot of stuff, youth. but not this. guys make calls, and they miss calls occasionally. but not more frequently on faceoffs.. and it's a tough adjudication.

most coaches with or without a stud mail it in. period.

No doubt, calls are missed, I get that...but that does not discount we are missing an opportunity to clean it up without changing the rules. I just believe the officials need better positioning and mechanics for this event. With a 3 man team, after the ref sets the ball, maybe he does not back out behind players, but continues to straddle the midline with the another official working behind.....thinking line judge and back judge like football. Every game that has a camera view down the line, you clearly see players setting up in a 'leaning' (advantage) position.

rubbin's racin'.

One of my favorite movies.

[wgdsr]

Maybe we should do away with goalies...no goalies allowed in basketball and goalies can have an outsized impact on the game...

Seriously, having a great face-off group, whether a win it to yourself guy or a battle it out group should matter...but we keep seeing contests where the initial face-off is won by the 'better' FOGO, and yet the possession is so contested, ride is so hard, that early turnovers end up resulting in similar actual offensive possessions.

Obviously dominating that battle is an advantage. Being dominated is a disadvantage.

But nevertheless, a hot goalie and stout defense can create the stops necessary to create enough O chances to win if the O is efficient...it's a team game.

Coaching the face-off unit is just as important as finding a good face-off man.

So is officiating the faceoff, which does not happen.

It's the most over officiated play in lax by a long shot. I am not a face off expert, but it appears that 30-50% of face offs result in a whistle at some point with some kind of violation. That is just too many stoppages and too much officiating. And when the knowledgeable fan can't tell why one player or another committed a violation, something is wrong. I don't want to eliminate the face off at all, nor do I want rule changes every two years as we have been seeing, but I sure would like something done about the way the face off is officiated. Something is causing the violations and some officials call more violations than others. It takes away from the sport when so many face offs are decided by the officials. What is the fix for that?

those numbers aren't really close to how many violations there are, but regardless what we're looking at in proximate order of frequency:
- going early
- holding via pinning or check
- lining up incorrectly
- withholding via clamp
- > one step/ball not out
- pushing

guys are scrapping hard for possession, in the circle at least. a few violations to that end can be expected, for me at least.

[FMUBart]

Faceoff to start each quarter & overtime(but OT should be 4 min period, not sudden death), otherwise give the ball to goalie after a goal and make team clear it. Giving the ball, after a goal, at the midfield was a mistake, IMHO.

[SCLaxAttack]

Faceoff to start each quarter & overtime(but OT should be 4 min period, not sudden death), otherwise give the ball to goalie after a goal and make team clear it. Giving the ball, after a goal, at the midfield was a mistake, IMHO.

Not that I'm advocating for this, in fact I'm far from that, but following your logic why even start quarters with faceoffs? Just switch field sides and start possession time with what's left on the possession clock. To an even greater extreme if you want to take faceoff ability out of the game just start the game and OTs like football - with a coin toss for possession and field side.

[Pegasus6]

One of the best suggestions I ever heard to "fix" faceoffs is to move the sticks back off of the ball. When FOGOs get set their heads are 12 inches apart or more. Ball in the middle so they are 6 inches apart. Turns it into something that looks more like a ground ball and less of a technical move.

[SCLaxAttack]

For anyone with an opinion that face-offs do nothing for the game:

Siena down to Manhattan 7-10 with 48 seconds left, score at :47, :34, :24, and :03 for the win thanks to face offs. WOW! Cue up the lax trivia gurus to find that happening ever before.

[NYlax222]

We've all had frustration when our team faces disadvantage for possessions, but, regardless, the opportunity for 'make it, take it' late rallies is a great feature of the game. If need to clean up over-officiating, fine, but, strongly believe lax benefits from the opportunity for trailing teams to go on a run with FO wins.

[SCLaxAttack]

We've all had frustration when our team faces disadvantage for possessions, but, regardless, the opportunity for 'make it, take it' late rallies is a great feature of the game. If need to clean up over-officiating, fine, but, strongly believe lax benefits from the opportunity for trailing teams to go on a run with FO wins.

I know you didn't say it, but for clarification all four of the face offs in that last minute were clean. No face off violations.

[NYlax222]

SC: apologies if i was unclear - i was making general point about the sport, not at all regarding any particular game. - cheers,

[FOGO_Daze]

Not having faceoffs would make the game boring as hell.

[wgdsr]

ok, it's that bi-annual time of year! we get new rules for lacrosse, most of which i'd say have benefited the sport. of course, changing faceoff rules has become a tradition, so it's a lock we'll see something there.
let's "dive" in, shall we:
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... gins/63583
so the guess or wish list here is from 3 pretty familiar guys. said elsewhere some of it is a little weird. what is reviewable and what constitutes a crease violation is not unclear at all, so expecting clarity is perplexing. maybe they want some changes? what could that be in the wake of 2024?
- adding whether a shot demands a reset inside final 4 minutes for review. villanova/g'town. turns out it was kind of a nothingburger, but still caught attention with a playoff spot on the line.
- the crease - maybe/possibly changing a goalmouth violation to where u land vs where u slide to/roll over? as the goalmouth is the protected area and we are loath to go in any direction but "more safety", i'm dubious.
- booth review in nc$$s. if you saw some of the d3 playoffs, i'm not sure how this happens without stratifying divisions. would it be better for d1 playoffs than having refs try to ascertain on field with sun splashed screens? yes. think they'll tweak something. recall, the review rules we got this year were in between the 2 year cycles as a stop gap, maybe.

another mystery item from il... streamline the head hits review. i have no idea what this means. they call a head hit, review it, and give it the appropriate penalty. do they not like the penalty rules? no idea.

popular on chat sites, lax twitter and evidently lax media... long shots aren't shots. this looks to be more of their personal preference, not sure it has any legs with coaches. plus, it's a dumb idea (imo).

to the maybe most impactful discussion, faceoffs, which was the genesis of this thread and discussed at some length at the end of last year by coaches:
- 60 seconds off the face. i think this is a done deal. having rabil write rules isn't exactly a blueprint, but the pros anyway got us the shot clock, and it has improved the game, imo.
- i don't see them ditching the clamp. 1st, you'd have to explain why this is the only place on the field you can't do that (raking). yes, there are unique-to-faceoff-area rules. 2nd, it doesn't need fixing (the clamp, anyway). could they outlaw pinch and pop? possibly. a lot just depends on whether this end-of-2023 talk was several coaches spitballing vs some yuge consensus building.

any others that folks have heard are up for debate/possibles?

[IvyBrown]

Alot of posts but whoever said no other sport tweaks the rules as much as lacrosse isnt paying attention to other sports

I think the NBA Rule which tweaked the shot clock upon an offensive rebound most closely resembles this. I note that the NBA is about making money getting viewers and the like - they paid a lot of people to study this issue and decided it was best for the game. I would suggest for the Best of Lacrosse if you want the sport to grow and thrive they need to tweak the rules And as somebody else put it, you don’t need 60 seconds to do a fast break
So you lose nothing - except an opp to keep the other team in the game - otherwise known as excitement

NBA -

One of the most impactful/underrated modern rule changes in the NBA: offensive rebound shot clock rese


Beginning with the 2018 NBA season, the shot clock will reset to 14 seconds in offensive rebounding situations, as opposed to 24. The shot clock will reset to 14 seconds in three scenarios: after an offensive rebound of a missed field goal or free throw that hit the rim; after a loose ball foul is called on the defensive team immediately following a missed field goal or free throw that hit the rim; or after the offensive team gets possession of the ball after it goes out of bounds immediately following a missed field goal or free throw that hit the rim.


NBA teams on average have between 10-13 offensive rebounds per game. With the shot clock being shortened 10 seconds per offensive rebound, we have been seeing an increase in possessions. Offensive rebounds wasn't the only thing either, this rule applied for loose ball fouls and a couple other scenarios. This results in higher scoring games, faster pace, and overall stat inflation.

I was just rewatching some old games from 2010 and you can easily tell this rule change has affected the game so much. Other than the increased amount of 3's being taken, this rule change is by far the biggest difference I see compared to modern NBA in 2023. Before when a team got an offensive rebound, they'd milk the clock for another 20 seconds. Nowadays after an offensive rebound a scoring play is made within 7 or 8 seconds.

[FMUBart]

Although I think faceoffs are a boring part of the game--I mean, whoever wins the draw immediately subs off 2 or 3 guys(typically the whole faceoff unit)--I am not in favor of eliminating them. As someone noted before, prohibit the faceoff men from clamping the ball--make it a true ground ball battle. The whole pinch-n-pop should've never been allowed..

[FMUBart]

Although I think faceoffs are a boring part of the game--I mean, whoever wins the draw immediately subs off 2 or 3 guys(typically the whole faceoff unit)--I am not in favor of eliminating them. As someone noted before, prohibit the faceoff men from clamping the ball--make it a true ground ball battle. The whole pinch-n-pop should've never been allowed; that is ostensibly withholding as soon as the ball is stuck in the crosse.