LaxPower Back-Up Stick

There's a bit of a paradox between growing the game and the current trend away from specialization (back to 2way middies, f/o men who can stay on the field as opposed to fogo's, longsticks as offensive weapons.)
Specialization can allow kids with a limited pallet of athleticism to see the field for their one-ish skill that is advanced. If the sport grows to require, let's say the 'Ryan Conrad' model of player, lots of kids can be marginalized.
What's good for the sport may not be good for the large majority of individuals.
(And this isn't even taking into account financials.)

bearlaxfan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:08 am There's a bit of a paradox between growing the game and the current trend away from specialization (back to 2way middies, f/o men who can stay on the field as opposed to fogo's, longsticks as offensive weapons.)
Specialization can allow kids with a limited pallet of athleticism to see the field for their one-ish skill that is advanced. If the sport grows to require, let's say the 'Ryan Conrad' model of player, lots of kids can be marginalized.
What's good for the sport may not be good for the large majority of individuals.
(And this isn't even taking into account financials.)

The resurgence of the 2 way middie is romanticized in lax media. Still pretty much your O middie / D middie corps. But I know what you mean.

recruiting the exact science ? when recruit visits the campus with his parents , first stop ,the library !

Anecdotally, I'm seeing the new faceoff rules (eliminating the moto) has made things much more competitive at the youth/MS level. Athleticism is rewarded once again. We are seeing less specialists at the MS level and more "regular" middies facing off. Still need the specialists in HS, but the top win percentages are in the high 50s, low 60s not the obscene 60-80% range like they used to be.

hofpride wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:23 am recruiting the exact science ? when recruit visits the campus with his parents , first stop ,the library !

Don’t you mean the computer and media center these days? Dewey decimal died.

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 10:01 am Anecdotally, I'm seeing the new faceoff rules (eliminating the moto) has made things much more competitive at the youth/MS level. Athleticism is rewarded once again. We are seeing less specialists at the MS level and more "regular" middies facing off. Still need the specialists in HS, but the top win percentages are in the high 50s, low 60s not the obscene 60-80% range like they used to be.

Just have to teach kids playing wing to get the heck in there fast on the whistle!

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:09 am

bearlaxfan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:08 am There's a bit of a paradox between growing the game and the current trend away from specialization (back to 2way middies, f/o men who can stay on the field as opposed to fogo's, longsticks as offensive weapons.)
Specialization can allow kids with a limited pallet of athleticism to see the field for their one-ish skill that is advanced. If the sport grows to require, let's say the 'Ryan Conrad' model of player, lots of kids can be marginalized.
What's good for the sport may not be good for the large majority of individuals.
(And this isn't even taking into account financials.)

The resurgence of the 2 way middie is romanticized in lax media. Still pretty much your O middie / D middie corps. But I know what you mean.

Agree with TLD. 2 way middie is rare, and that's probably why it gets noticed when it happens and why it's successful for those that use it, like with Pat Hackler.

I disagree a little with bearlaxfan. When I think of "growing the game", and we can argue about what that means and if it's really important, I think of giving lacrosse opportunities to kids HS age and below from non-traditional lacrosse areas. I think a High School student from a non-traditional area is more likely to be needed by his high school team to play multiple positions and have more two-way experience than a kid from a hotbed area, because they don't have enough players to have O mids and D mids. Boys Latin has enough players that they need to have O mids and D mids.

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:29 pm

smoova wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:00 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Mon Oct 10, 2022 11:30 amWe have ‘24 5 Star lacrosse players that should be class of ‘22.

"If you're a good 2022, you'd be a better 2023 and you'd be a GREAT 2024!"
- Jamie Munro (world's biggest fan of playing down)

Amazing insight from another former coach and "lacrosse consultant."

That thinking is a large part of the reason lacrosse has remained a niche sport and mostly stagnant the past few years.

It's all based on cronyism and small/regional thinking. And much of the lax community wants it that way, to keep the masses away from participating.

The old guys really like their kids being a big fish in a relatively small pond of athleticism. The stuff today's "top" kids are learning are just the things we did in college 15-20 years ago, pushed to a younger and younger crowd, and broken down into smaller chunks.

So many of the guys running club teams/training programs/lacrosse programs ONLY know lacrosse. And lacrosse people. So the same names and the same ideas just swirl and circulate endlessly. There are there are no new ideas, no new ways of thinking, no new ways of organizing, and no ensuring of competitive balance or growing/promoting the sport. If that happened, most of the kids on these lists wouldn't sniff the top 100 or * * * ratings. Want to be better? Just train more! Play against physically smaller/weaker kids! Duh!

And it's sadder still, that US Lacrosse is fine with that continuing to happen.

It's a shame.

I'm actually curious when it comes to US Lacrosse, how they are able to continue to provide insurance for youth programs and kids who may be playing with kids 2 years older.

Great points. As a lacrosse outsider (need played) with a kid playing in college and a young/on age kid in HS (14 year old Freshman is considered young), I do find it odd that US Lacrosse has stayed so silent on this issue. Don't see this w US Hockey. Tail wagging the dog. In general, the program director type guys are relatively low IQ guys that are protecting what their business, and if you think they are looking out for your kid, you think wrong.

And I do agree, as mentioned, that lacrosse is the only sport where it is seen as a good thing when a player reclasses. The best players always play up...not down.

Stiffler wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:25 pm Great points. As a lacrosse outsider (need played) with a kid playing in college and a young/on age kid in HS (14 year old Freshman is considered young), I do find it odd that US Lacrosse has stayed so silent on this issue. Don't see this w US Hockey. Tail wagging the dog. In general, the program director type guys are relatively low IQ guys that are protecting what their business, and if you think they are looking out for your kid, you think wrong.

And I do agree, as mentioned, that lacrosse is the only sport where it is seen as a good thing when a player reclasses. The best players always play up...not down.

USA Lacrosse is (unfortunately) a toothless lion that largely exists to provide insurance coverage for coaches/leagues/tournaments. As noted above, at the club/HS level the sport is driven by wealthy parents who pay the clubs to run teams/tournaments that facilitate college recruiting efforts. The quickest way for USA Lacrosse to (further) destroy its relevance would be to get (more) crossways with the clubs, who could pretty easily line up their own insurance coverage and pass the costs on to parents.

"Grow the Game" is a nice phrase. But it doesn't have much meaning to US Lacrosse outside of 6's, and lax in the Olympics.

There was some excitement that the new head of USL might do something about the class-based groupings. Or at least take a strong stance against it due to all the safety concerns. But that hasn't happened. It's been radio silence.

Class-based grouping came about when private clubs fed off the early-recruiting scene. "If you're not recruited by 8th grade, you'll never play college lacrosse!" Now, early recruiting has gone away, and colleges are working through the real back-log of talent due to the extra year of covid eligibility. So it would actually be a great time to move back to age-based, as the change wouldn't have a huge effect on college programs. There will be an overly competitive college "recruiting bubble" for at least the next couple years thanks to the extra covid year of eligibility.

If USL would push a switch at the youth level, not much will change at the hs and college level anyway. If kids want to hold back, for hs and college they can. And they can continue to get those built-in advantages. So the wealthy who want that advantage will still get it. They can also do a prep year, redshirt, etc etc. But moving to age-based would drastically improve the Youth and middle school scene. At this point, it's REALLY a safety and competitive balance concern at the younger groupings. And the lack of competitive balance continues to hurt the growth of the game overall.

6’s was invented go get lax into the Olympics. Getting lax into the Olympics qualified lax for a cut of Olympic money.

U S Lacrosse has its own issues. Looking back 10 years and comparing it to now can be interesting.

There is a Yale grad who has bern interesting to follow over the recent past

smoova wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:04 pm

Stiffler wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:25 pm Great points. As a lacrosse outsider (need played) with a kid playing in college and a young/on age kid in HS (14 year old Freshman is considered young), I do find it odd that US Lacrosse has stayed so silent on this issue. Don't see this w US Hockey. Tail wagging the dog. In general, the program director type guys are relatively low IQ guys that are protecting what their business, and if you think they are looking out for your kid, you think wrong.

And I do agree, as mentioned, that lacrosse is the only sport where it is seen as a good thing when a player reclasses. The best players always play up...not down.

USA Lacrosse is (unfortunately) a toothless lion that largely exists to provide insurance coverage for coaches/leagues/tournaments. As noted above, at the club/HS level the sport is driven by wealthy parents who pay the clubs to run teams/tournaments that facilitate college recruiting efforts. The quickest way for USA Lacrosse to (further) destroy its relevance would be to get (more) crossways with the clubs, who could pretty easily line up their own insurance coverage and pass the costs on to parents.

From my understanding, USA Lacrosse is moving away from an insurance based revenue model.

1766 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:23 pm From my understanding, USA Lacrosse is moving away from an insurance based revenue model.

Interesting. I always assumed that membership fees (insurance premiums) comprised the majority of their revenue.

What does USL do?

They say:

USL “Provides national leadership, structure and resources” to the game.

Specifics like?

…
…
…

So far all I can tell is:

Resells umbrella insurance to clubs.
Foots the bill for Team USA.

Anything else?

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:30 pm What does USL do?

They say:

USL “Provides national leadership, structure and resources” to the game.

Specifics like?

…
…
…

So far all I can tell is:

Resells umbrella insurance to clubs.
Foots the bill for Team USA.

Anything else?

Does it discriminate against women like US Soccer?

it's october 12 and we have the first '25 on the board. fwiw, it looks like he can play.
https://twitter.com/tyxanders/status/15 ... Jv7jA&s=19
and here we are.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:05 am it's october 12 and we have the first '25 on the board. fwiw, it looks like he can play.
https://twitter.com/tyxanders/status/15 ... Jv7jA&s=19
and here we are.

He is re-class. Could be the UVA is stacking so many higher stars that he going the PG route to try and get playing time.

AreaLax wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:30 am

wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:05 am it's october 12 and we have the first '25 on the board. fwiw, it looks like he can play.
https://twitter.com/tyxanders/status/15 ... Jv7jA&s=19
and here we are.

He is re-class. Could be the UVA is stacking so many higher stars that he going the PG route to try and get playing time.

the push forward has been part of the discussion here.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:42 am

AreaLax wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:30 am

wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:05 am it's october 12 and we have the first '25 on the board. fwiw, it looks like he can play.
https://twitter.com/tyxanders/status/15 ... Jv7jA&s=19
and here we are.

He is re-class. Could be the UVA is stacking so many higher stars that he going the PG route to try and get playing time.

the push forward has been part of the discussion here.

He isn’t re-classing to look good against younger kids.

UVA must be giving away some major NIL deals? Any insight from the posters?