Trump's Russian Collusion

[runrussellrun]

According to my J school training, and the handful (count Rugan ) of lawyers in family, calling someone a criminal is slander/libel. That lil word " alleged" goes a long way. And honestly, have you ever cheated, even a little, on your tax returns? Really, never. You Ref lacrosse games.....all that income reported.

[Trinity]

Lost in the hurricane was news of 2015 emails between Mike Flynn and dead GOP guy Peter Smith. Also a New Yorker story on suspicious 2016 contact between the Trump servers and Alpha Bank, perhaps the same “foldering” technique used by former Campaign Chairman Manafort and Rick Gates to hide communication. Mueller knows.

[dislaxxic]

THE FIRST AMENDMENT WALL-SPLAT THAT ANTICIPATES ANY DEFENSE OF A TRUMP CONSPIRACY OR WIKILEAKS CHARGE

No Mueller, but a lengthy analysis of the goings-on in ANOTHER legal action involving the Trumpist Campaign...

"Last week, lawyers from Jones Day representing the Trump campaign submitted a response to a lawsuit by two Democratic donors and a DNC employee (the case is referred to as Cockrum after donor Roy Cockrum) that presents an interesting, but imperfect, preview of any defense of a Trump conspiracy and/or a WikiLeaks charge in the election hack-and-leak.

Effectively, the Democrats attempt to hold the Trump campaign responsible for having their private information (social security numbers in the case of the donors and more personal conversations in the case of DNC employee Scott Comer) posted in the emails released by WikiLeaks on July 22, 2016. They do so by arguing that the Trump campaign conspired with agents of Russia, agreeing to provide policy considerations in exchange for the assistance presented by the email release, which therefore makes them parties to the injury associated with the hack-and-leak."

..

[a fan]

No one has broken any laws

It's a felony to leak classified information. ...such as NSA intercepts.

Not true. Who leaked them?

There are no convictions. Not even an indictment Until there are, no laws have been broken. For all we know, Trump is the leaker-in-Chief. Or Obama. They can leak anything they like. Well, Obama can't anymore, but.....

[old salt]

No one has broken any laws

It's a felony to leak classified information. ...such as NSA intercepts.

Not true. Who leaked them?

There are no convictions. Not even an indictment Until there are, no laws have been broken. For all we know, Trump is the leaker-in-Chief. Or Obama. They can leak anything they like. Well, Obama can't anymore, but.....

The law is broken when the classified info is divulged.
Who do you think leaked the intercept of Flynn's ph calls with the Russian Amb before Trump was even in office,
or of his ph call with Taiwan during the transition ?
You don't understand classified matl handling. ...never mind.

[a fan]

Dunno. Wikileaks? That's your problem here. No one knows. Where are the indictments or convictions?

We've discussed this before. For all we know, Obama directed the leaks. Not like this has never happened before, despite your protestations.....or your attempt to say "this specific information from this exact department hasn't been leaked before".

Break a law, get convicted, go to jail....I'm fine with that. But you don't know if laws have been broken. You're just mad that Trump's agenda has, in your opinion, been thrown off track. I counter that his agenda hasn't been affected, even a little, by Mueller.

Mueller isn't even in the news now. What neat-o thing is Trump doing now that Russia it out of the headlines....that he couldn't do when Mueller was front page news?

Exactly. No change. It's a canard.

[dislaxxic]

Mueller is everywhere, except the midterms

"It’s a rare phenomenon in modern American politics to have a midterm election coincide with a major investigation that delves into anything related to the president. Even rarer is the phenomenon of voters going to the polls at the same time that an investigation remains active into questions of criminality tied to the winning campaign from the most recent presidential election.

That makes predicting the Mueller inquiry’s influence on voters that much more challenging, and why Democratic and Republican party operatives and candidates say the topic is best handled as mood music rather than as a primary argument to be used to drive turnout."

..

[old salt]

Dunno. Wikileaks? That's your problem here. No one knows. Where are the indictments or convictions?

We've discussed this before. For all we know, Obama directed the leaks. Not like this has never happened before, despite your protestations.....or your attempt to say "this specific information from this exact department hasn't been leaked before".

Break a law, get convicted, go to jail....I'm fine with that. But you don't know if laws have been broken. You're just mad that Trump's agenda has, in your opinion, been thrown off track. I counter that his agenda hasn't been affected, even a little, by Mueller.

Mueller isn't even in the news now. What neat-o thing is Trump doing now that Russia it out of the headlines....that he couldn't do when Mueller was front page news?

Exactly. No change. It's a canard.

Wikileaks ? You make no sense. I'm "mad" that people inside the govt abused the powers of their positions to undermine a Presidential candidate, then a duly elected President in transition, then a serving President. That included the criminal leaking of classified information to undermine Trump & his Admin. I'm not talking about Mueller. I'm referring to what happened before he started. Your contention that Trump leaked info that damages him & his Admin is just plain stupid, on it's face.
Look what the DoJ IG reported out about the leaks from just the FBI & DoJ, just during his investigation of the HRC server.

[a fan]

You misquoted me. I said Obama, too. So pre-Trump, maybe Obama did the leaking. Or ordered the leaking. We don't know.

We don't know who did the leaking. What do you want me to do here? Arrest the nearest Democrat?

[old salt]

You don't need to do anything. I said that govt officials broke the law by leaking classified info (in the form of NSA intercepts) to the media. You disputed that assertion.
By your standard, my friends at NSA Security (teaming with the FBI) are wasting their time trying to find & convict these leakers, like they have previous leakers.

[a fan]

No, by my standard, I trust rank and file employees like your friends at NSA about 1,000 times more than political appointees. You seem to think the Deep State did it.

I'm saying: my bet goes on to the political folks in both White Houses (Trump's and Obama's). If I'm right, then it is quite possible the leaks were legal orders.

That's it....my only point. Well that and, we don't know who leaked....

[Trinity]

Forgot to add that Pineda guy with the phony ids and bank accounts for Russians cooperated immediately with Feds, just not on stuff that would allow Mueller to trim his sentence. He was obviously horrified about what he’d unwittingly enabled.

[HooDat]

You're just mad that Trump's agenda has, in your opinion, been thrown off track. I counter that his agenda hasn't been affected, even a little, by Mueller.

I might even take it a step further and say that Trump's agenda has been helped by the investigation. Mueller plays a great foil and "other" for Trump to rail against when the news cycle isn't going the way he wants it to.....

[a fan]

I made that argument at the old Cooler, and that's why I think Trump has done his share of leaking. The "us vs. them" narrative with Trump's core HELPS Trump. Bigly.

But I don't know for sure, obviously. No is going to be more sad to see Mueller go away than Trump and FoxNation. They'll milk the "told ya so" for 6 months or so, and then they'll have to find something else that people are doing to be "mean to Trump".

Speak truth to power? What's that? Everything our government leader does is Super-Awesome!

[old salt]

No, by my standard, I trust rank and file employees like your friends at NSA about 1,000 times more than political appointees. You seem to think the Deep State did it.

I'm saying: my bet goes on to the political folks in both White Houses (Trump's and Obama's). If I'm right, then it is quite possible the leaks were legal orders.

That's it....my only point. Well that and, we don't know who leaked....

Just to clarify, here's my Deep State All Stars who grace your cable tv screen :
Brennan, Clapper, Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Ohr, Rice, Powers, Rhodes, Farkas & some their tbd underlings.
...don't make me play the Farkas video clip again. It's not a legal order unless there is a paper trail declassifying the information.

[Trinity]

Who do you think Manafort and Gates flipped on?

Oh, yeah, I forgot : Trump knows more that Gen Mattis about NATO. And Mattis is a Democrat. Carry on.

[old salt]

For afan's reading pleasure -- past charged &/or convicted leakers + Reality Winner since then.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opi ... story.html

[a fan]

? Wait, I thought this leaking was unprecedented, and the Deep State was brand new, invented in Nov of 2016.

Now you're telling me that there were illegal leaking that stuck it to Obama. Gotta be fake news.

(how many times did I tell you this happens all the time, again? And how many times did you come back with "well, those leaks were different?")


Why are you complaining to me? Trump's in charge of the Executive. Ask him why there isn't an investigation that suits your taste. The DoJ already looked into things, but that doesn't satisfy you. What do you want me to do here?

Please don't tell me you want an IP. You HATE IP's, remember?

[Typical Lax Dad]

? Wait, I thought this leaking was unprecedented, and the Deep State was brand new, invented in Nov of 2016.

Now you're telling me that there were illegal leaking that stuck it to Obama. Gotta be fake news.

(how many times did I tell you this happens all the time, again? And how many times did you come back with "well, those leaks were different?")


Why are you complaining to me? Trump's in charge of the Executive. Ask him why there isn't an investigation that suits your taste. The DoJ already looked into things, but that doesn't satisfy you. What do you want me to do here?

Please don't tell me you want an IP. You HATE IP's, remember?

You are barking up the wrong tree, his dog walking buddy is the guy you have to convince first.

[old salt]

? Wait, I thought this leaking was unprecedented, and the Deep State was brand new, invented in Nov of 2016.

Now you're telling me that there were illegal leaking that stuck it to Obama. Gotta be fake news.

(how many times did I tell you this happens all the time, again? And how many times did you come back with "well, those leaks were different?")


Why are you complaining to me? Trump's in charge of the Executive. Ask him why there isn't an investigation that suits your taste. The DoJ already looked into things, but that doesn't satisfy you. What do you want me to do here?

Please don't tell me you want an IP. You HATE IP's, remember?

I'm all for nailing leakers -- past, present, future.
I also pointed out that the WP won a Pulitzer for publishing Snowden's Wikileaks. Snowden & Assange were heroes then.
Now -- Assange is a Russian spy & enemy of democracy for exposing how the DNC screwed Bernie.
Which set of Wikileaks damaged US National Security ?
...off to the dog park, for some intelligent conversation.