North Carolina 2023

[DocBarrister]

Also an observation...three teams have let go of coaches who have won national championships in the last 7 years, and all of them won more national championships than Joe Breschi. One of them won the national championship within the 3 years of moving on from that national championship winning coach and another the next season after that and the other is in the Top 10 and going to have a first round home NCAA Tournament game within 3 years of moving on after a sustained decline in results not dissimilar to what North Carolina has seen under Breschi. Third it's still only halfway through Year 2.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Coach Breschi lead North Carolina to the Final Four just two years ago?

DocBarrister

[Typical Lax Dad]

Also an observation...three teams have let go of coaches who have won national championships in the last 7 years, and all of them won more national championships than Joe Breschi. One of them won the national championship within the 3 years of moving on from that national championship winning coach and another the next season after that and the other is in the Top 10 and going to have a first round home NCAA Tournament game within 3 years of moving on after a sustained decline in results not dissimilar to what North Carolina has seen under Breschi. Third it's still only halfway through Year 2.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Coach Breschi lead North Carolina to the Final Four just two years ago?

DocBarrister

tough loss to UVA.

[jrn19]

He did. Also here's their results since the National Championship

8-8 (1-3 ACC)
7-7 (1-3 ACC)
8-7 (1-3 ACC)
7-0 (0-0 ACC) COVID
13-3 (4-2 ACC) Final Four
8-6 (1-5 ACC)
7-5 (1-3 ACC)

You tell me which one looks like the outlier in the larger sample set there.

58-36 (62%), 9-19 ACC (32%), 2 NCAA Tournament appearances out of the last 5, looking like it's going to be 2 of the last 6 and 1 of the last 5, with 2 NCAA Tournament wins in 7 years.

At this point Breschi's Carolina's tenure is two halves. The first half, from 2009-2016, where Carolina was a consistent Top 8 team in the country, made the tournament every year, usually Quarterfinals, competed in ACC for conference championships, and one season where it all came together and they won the national championship. And then the second half, from 2017-2023, where Carolina is a borderline Top 20 team, who makes the tournament about a third of the time, is the worst team in the ACC every year, wins 1 game, and had one season where it all came together and they made the Final Four. His contract is up at the end of next season. Carolina has a decision to make. For the next 5-6 years do you think Joe Breschi is going to be the coach from the first half of his tenure or the second half? That's it.

[DocBarrister]

He did. Also here's their results since the National Championship

8-8 (1-3 ACC)
7-7 (1-3 ACC)
8-7 (1-3 ACC)
7-0 (0-0 ACC) COVID
13-3 (4-2 ACC) Final Four
8-6 (1-5 ACC)
7-5 (1-3 ACC)

You tell me which one looks like the outlier in the larger sample set there.

58-36 (62%), 9-19 ACC (32%), 2 NCAA Tournament appearances out of the last 5, looking like it's going to be 2 of the last 6 and 1 of the last 5, with 2 NCAA Tournament wins in 7 years.

At this point Breschi's Carolina's tenure is two halves. The first half, from 2009-2016, where Carolina was a consistent Top 8 team in the country, made the tournament every year, usually Quarterfinals, competed in ACC for conference championships, and one season where it all came together and they won the national championship. And then the second half, from 2017-2023, where Carolina is a borderline Top 20 team, who makes the tournament about a third of the time, is the worst team in the ACC every year, wins 1 game, and had one season where it all came together and they made the Final Four. His contract is up at the end of next season. Carolina has a decision to make. For the next 5-6 years do you think Joe Breschi is going to be the coach from the first half of his tenure or the second half? That's it.

So, in the last eight seasons:

1 national championship
2 Final Fours
1 undefeated season
8 seasons with an even or winning record
0 seasons with a losing record

The last 8 seasons ain’t half bad.

DocBarrister

[jrn19]

He did. Also here's their results since the National Championship

8-8 (1-3 ACC)
7-7 (1-3 ACC)
8-7 (1-3 ACC)
7-0 (0-0 ACC) COVID
13-3 (4-2 ACC) Final Four
8-6 (1-5 ACC)
7-5 (1-3 ACC)

You tell me which one looks like the outlier in the larger sample set there.

58-36 (62%), 9-19 ACC (32%), 2 NCAA Tournament appearances out of the last 5, looking like it's going to be 2 of the last 6 and 1 of the last 5, with 2 NCAA Tournament wins in 7 years.

At this point Breschi's Carolina's tenure is two halves. The first half, from 2009-2016, where Carolina was a consistent Top 8 team in the country, made the tournament every year, usually Quarterfinals, competed in ACC for conference championships, and one season where it all came together and they won the national championship. And then the second half, from 2017-2023, where Carolina is a borderline Top 20 team, who makes the tournament about a third of the time, is the worst team in the ACC every year, wins 1 game, and had one season where it all came together and they made the Final Four. His contract is up at the end of next season. Carolina has a decision to make. For the next 5-6 years do you think Joe Breschi is going to be the coach from the first half of his tenure or the second half? That's it.

So, in the last eight seasons:

1 national championship
2 Final Fours
1 undefeated season
8 seasons with an even or winning record
0 seasons with a losing record

The last 8 seasons ain’t half bad.

DocBarrister

"1 undefeated season" is doing some amazing work there

[DocBarrister]

He did. Also here's their results since the National Championship

8-8 (1-3 ACC)
7-7 (1-3 ACC)
8-7 (1-3 ACC)
7-0 (0-0 ACC) COVID
13-3 (4-2 ACC) Final Four
8-6 (1-5 ACC)
7-5 (1-3 ACC)

You tell me which one looks like the outlier in the larger sample set there.

58-36 (62%), 9-19 ACC (32%), 2 NCAA Tournament appearances out of the last 5, looking like it's going to be 2 of the last 6 and 1 of the last 5, with 2 NCAA Tournament wins in 7 years.

At this point Breschi's Carolina's tenure is two halves. The first half, from 2009-2016, where Carolina was a consistent Top 8 team in the country, made the tournament every year, usually Quarterfinals, competed in ACC for conference championships, and one season where it all came together and they won the national championship. And then the second half, from 2017-2023, where Carolina is a borderline Top 20 team, who makes the tournament about a third of the time, is the worst team in the ACC every year, wins 1 game, and had one season where it all came together and they made the Final Four. His contract is up at the end of next season. Carolina has a decision to make. For the next 5-6 years do you think Joe Breschi is going to be the coach from the first half of his tenure or the second half? That's it.

So, in the last eight seasons:

1 national championship
2 Final Fours
1 undefeated season
8 seasons with an even or winning record
0 seasons with a losing record

The last 8 seasons ain’t half bad.

DocBarrister

"1 undefeated season" is doing some amazing work there

Well, 7-0 in 2020. The record is what it is.

DocBarrister

[gymman1031]

So, is this where things stand for UNC now?

lose both to Notre Dame, no postseason
split with the Irish, possibly one of the final at-larges
beat them both times, a postseason lock

[HopFan16]

So, is this where things stand for UNC now?

lose both to Notre Dame, no postseason
split with the Irish, possibly one of the final at-larges
beat them both times, a postseason lock

Sounds about right, yeah.

As for the Breschi conversation, I have no clue what they will do and have mixed feelings about what they *should* do, but one would think there’s a defensive coordinator in western New York watching the situation closely. Not sure if the interest would be mutual though.

[Finster]

Fire Breschi

I wish there was a forum where people could critique your job and everything YOU do while also calling for you to be fired from your job.

You most likely don’t know anything about Joe. He cares about his kids and they love him.

Being the ACC doormat and missing the tournament with no end in sight has always been unacceptable. It was unacceptable under Klarman and Haus. The same goes for Breschi. I've been a longtime defender of the guy, and fully comprehend that he's a nice guy. Maybe being a nice guy that loses is good enough for lower tier programs. Carolina should have a coach the players love, and who also wins.

Man, I like Joe, he’s a great guy, but no team at this level plays with less urgency than Carolina. Today for periods of time, they looked like they’d rather have been picking crab meat at minimum wage than playing lacrosse.

I was there against UVA, and the same lackadaisical energy showed itself like today. And that lack of energy leads to dumb positioning, poorly thought out schemes, and worse. Their FOGO wings are atrocious.

Glad Cuse won, but trust me, as a Cuse fan, I see an opponent with serious culture issues in Carolina.

[LaxPundit07]

Breschi seems like an awesome guy. But has anyone done less with more than him? Seems like he brings in truckloads of sick laxers every year (according to Inside Lacrosse).

It’s time for a change in Chapel Hill. Call it what it is.

[keno in reno]

Breschi seems like an awesome guy. But has anyone done less with more than him? Seems like he brings in truckloads of sick laxers every year (according to Inside Lacrosse).

It’s time for a change in Chapel Hill. Call it what it is.

For the last decade you could argue Danowski. Could also put Corrigan in there; Breschi's definitely accomplished more but maybe with more talent.

[LaxPundit07]

I would rethink that argument. Go back and look at their comparative records over the past 10 years. I don’t think there is much of a comparison, both in overall record and tournament results.

[DocBarrister]

Fire Breschi

I wish there was a forum where people could critique your job and everything YOU do while also calling for you to be fired from your job.

You most likely don’t know anything about Joe. He cares about his kids and they love him.

Being the ACC doormat and missing the tournament with no end in sight has always been unacceptable. It was unacceptable under Klarman and Haus. The same goes for Breschi. I've been a longtime defender of the guy, and fully comprehend that he's a nice guy. Maybe being a nice guy that loses is good enough for lower tier programs. Carolina should have a coach the players love, and who also wins.

Man, I like Joe, he’s a great guy, but no team at this level plays with less urgency than Carolina. Today for periods of time, they looked like they’d rather have been picking crab meat at minimum wage than playing lacrosse.

I was there against UVA, and the same lackadaisical energy showed itself like today. And that lack of energy leads to dumb positioning, poorly thought out schemes, and worse. Their FOGO wings are atrocious.

Glad Cuse won, but trust me, as a Cuse fan, I see an opponent with serious culture issues in Carolina.

This was North Carolina’s reputation long before Breschi.

Is it possible the “culture” issues, if any, are related to UNC itself, and not just Breschi?

DocBarrister

[10 10 2]

Not suggesting anything, just an observation … there aren’t many men’s lacrosse head coaches who have won Division I national championships. And no one wins a Division I lacrosse championship on a “fluke.”

DocBarrister

Just to be clear, I've never said 2016 was a fluke, and think all the people that do say it was a fluke are lame haters and trolls. Not only is it a disservice to Coach Breschi, it's a disservice to all those great players on that team. They won because they got better and were playing ridiculously good lacrosse by the end of the season. The same goes for everyone else that has ever won the national championship.

I'll say this about 2021 - That was one of the best ever Carolina lacrosse teams. Losing in the semifinals was a huge disappointment. I don't think Breschi will ever have a team as good as that one ever again. Maybe if a generational talent like Chris Gray lands in his lap again. That's a big if though, and even then, Breschi couldn't get his team to the Tournament and had his worst season ever at Carolina with a 5th Year Chris Gray.

2016 is getting farther and farther away, and all I have from 2021 is a bad taste in my mouth. Mediocrity abounds. The program feels like it is trending downwards. Peers like Syracuse and Johns Hopkins are trending upwards thanks to new coaches. Something needs to change...

At the end of the day I think Breschi will end up getting a contract extension. It will be very disappointing, and potentially a disaster, if it is a standard 5 year contract though. Best case the AD lets Breschi know he's on the hot seat and gives him a year or two to right the ship.

[Lewisfrederick]

Fire Breschi

I wish there was a forum where people could critique your job and everything YOU do while also calling for you to be fired from your job.

You most likely don’t know anything about Joe. He cares about his kids and they love him.

Being the ACC doormat and missing the tournament with no end in sight has always been unacceptable. It was unacceptable under Klarman and Haus. The same goes for Breschi. I've been a longtime defender of the guy, and fully comprehend that he's a nice guy. Maybe being a nice guy that loses is good enough for lower tier programs. Carolina should have a coach the players love, and who also wins.

Man, I like Joe, he’s a great guy, but no team at this level plays with less urgency than Carolina. Today for periods of time, they looked like they’d rather have been picking crab meat at minimum wage than playing lacrosse.

I was there against UVA, and the same lackadaisical energy showed itself like today. And that lack of energy leads to dumb positioning, poorly thought out schemes, and worse. Their FOGO wings are atrocious.

Glad Cuse won, but trust me, as a Cuse fan, I see an opponent with serious culture issues in Carolina.

This was North Carolina’s reputation long before Breschi.

Is it possible the “culture” issues, if any, are related to UNC itself, and not just Breschi?

DocBarrister

Women’s team doesn’t have this issue… heck they might have one of the best cultures across the board.

It’s pretty obvious we need a new coach. Consistent top 5 recruiting classes… missing the tournament 4 times in 5 years and let’s not forget UNC was the last team in the tournament in 2016 and 2017. If we stay with Breschi we will continue being the worst team in the ACC and hardly ever make the tournament.

UNC isn’t some mediocre program either. 5 National Championships and 14 Final Fours, plus it’s not like Breschi struggles to get top recruits to Chapel Hill. It’s simply we don’t develop players and get out coached most games. I know some people will laugh at me for saying this, but if we go out and make the right hire, we could be in the same category as Maryland, Duke and UVA year after year.

[FMUBart]

Dean Smith had the same "done less with more" criticism, and he has a Dome named after him!

[keno in reno]

UNC isn’t some mediocre program either. 5 National Championships and 14 Final Fours, plus it’s not like Breschi struggles to get top recruits to Chapel Hill. It’s simply we don’t develop players and get out coached most games. I know some people will laugh at me for saying this, but if we go out and make the right hire, we could be in the same category as Maryland, Duke and UVA year after year.

You mean the same Duke team that didn't even make the tournament last year despite having a once-a-generation player along with another #1 recruit along with numerous other all-americans?

UNC is in the same category as Maryland, Duke and UVA. They are an elite program. Those teams ain't perfect either though. UVA's '21 team got blown out by Syracuse 20-10 and lost again to the Orange, then could have lost to Bryant in the opening round. Their 2019 championship run could/should have ended in the elite 8 against Maryland, then again the following week down 2 with 47 seconds to go. On the flip side, Maryland blew a 5 goal 4th quarter lead to UVA in 2019 and were saved by amazing goalie play in '22 to not blow a 9-2 lead against Cornell (not scoring a goal for the last 27 minutes). And this year, Maryland has lived up to it's Be the Best standards probably once all season, against UVA; otherwise they have struggled big-time against Loyola, Michigan, Ohio State and Syracuse (which was not as good as they are now).

This is really not meant to be a knock on Duke, UVA or MD. The point is that winning in D1 lacrosse ain't so easy these days. And all these top teams have to play each other to keep their tournament profiles up, so somebody's gotta lose. UVA's lost 2 of the last 3. If they played Duke again in the tournament, I'd still take the Hoos. This year, what's the difference between Duke, UVA, MD, ND, Georgetown, Cornell, Hopkins, Rutgers, Denver and even Michigan? Probably Brennan O'Neill and UVA's depth at attack are the main differentiators, but they will have to beat at least 1 of the remaining group to even get to the Final 4.

[Finster]

UNC isn’t some mediocre program either. 5 National Championships and 14 Final Fours, plus it’s not like Breschi struggles to get top recruits to Chapel Hill. It’s simply we don’t develop players and get out coached most games. I know some people will laugh at me for saying this, but if we go out and make the right hire, we could be in the same category as Maryland, Duke and UVA year after year.

You mean the same Duke team that didn't even make the tournament last year despite having a once-a-generation player along with another #1 recruit along with numerous other all-americans?

UNC is in the same category as Maryland, Duke and UVA. They are an elite program. Those teams ain't perfect either though. UVA's '21 team got blown out by Syracuse 20-10 and lost again to the Orange, then could have lost to Bryant in the opening round. Their 2019 championship run could/should have ended in the elite 8 against Maryland, then again the following week down 2 with 47 seconds to go. On the flip side, Maryland blew a 5 goal 4th quarter lead to UVA in 2019 and were saved by amazing goalie play in '22 to not blow a 9-2 lead against Cornell (not scoring a goal for the last 27 minutes). And this year, Maryland has lived up to it's Be the Best standards probably once all season, against UVA; otherwise they have struggled big-time against Loyola, Michigan, Ohio State and Syracuse (which was not as good as they are now).

This is really not meant to be a knock on Duke, UVA or MD. The point is that winning in D1 lacrosse ain't so easy these days. And all these top teams have to play each other to keep their tournament profiles up, so somebody's gotta lose. UVA's lost 2 of the last 3. If they played Duke again in the tournament, I'd still take the Hoos. This year, what's the difference between Duke, UVA, MD, ND, Georgetown, Cornell, Hopkins, Rutgers, Denver and even Michigan? Probably Brennan O'Neill and UVA's depth at attack are the main differentiators, but they will have to beat at least 1 of the remaining group to even get to the Final 4.

That’s a good post.

Where I might disagree some is when I see UNC do two things that make me wonder about their team culture. One, their attack continually and not infrequently gets beat to the end line by the opponent on errant shots. Two, their FOGO wings are almost comically on the wrong side of where a loose ball pops from a scrum, just mindless ball watching.

I’d add some other concerning things like boneheaded personal fouls (like, what the hades was the Carolina guy even thinking yesterday pile-driving a Cuse player who was already on the ground?? Seriously, I don’t think I’d let the kid back on the field for at least a game, but Joe had him back on the field after Cuse scored the easy two-man down goal, where the D watched Cuse pass at will. Great lesson ).

[Crease Crank]

Curious what the Carolina fans thoughts would be about a guy like Seremet from Rutgers taking control. An alumn, Natty winner and offensive mindset that could help develop Petro into an amazing player.

[Exlaxbro]

Interesting take on Petro. Maybe dad will be in the conversation if UNC decides to move on from Breschi.