LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:42 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:30 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:26 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:18 pm People keep making this an Ivy League issue and it really shouldn't be. Brown, Cornell, Penn, Yale, and Princeton were all solidly and deservedly in the field. And now that they mostly held serve and the tournament record can't be used to say they're weak, people are grasping at total goals scored. It's beyond grasping at straws and frankly lame; you play to win the game, not to win by the amount of goals ACC fans deem appropriate.

The question at hand was specifically Harvard getting in over ND and Duke. They lost big today and people are conveniently using the margin of defeat to drag the whole conference down. I think when you look at the resume it was a lot closer than people will give credit, but that it's hard to defend putting them in over either of the ACC teams. But it wasn't so lopsided that it warrants all the whining we've seen on ESPN and on Twitter. ND wasn't some juggernaut fated for Memorial Day. They had a shot for sure, but so did a dozen other teams. Last year's team was better.

I agree with almost everything you said. The goal margin was just an interesting stat at net zero exactly. And the rain is ivy specific is the conf schedule raised everyone's rpi.

And it was deservedly so. The conference dominated on the field this year, and that's inarguable. Thus Harvard deserves credit for beating Princeton and Brown. If we're going to use Harvard (the 6th best team in the conference) to ding the Ivy, then why aren't we holding the failings of UNC and Cuse against ND and Duke? After all UNC is ND's best win other than Duke.

You are the first logical and reasonable person I've gotten to converse with today, so thank you very much for that. I can't stand Duke and I'm glad they aren't in and I'm not saying they deserved it, but if I had to put money down the only ivy I would pick over them is Princeton. So if I was a Duke fan I'd be upset watching this weekend. Did they do enough to get in? Apparently not. Did Syracuse significantly hurt the entire acc's rpi? Decidedly yes. And NCAA committee favored brown, but Vegas favored UVA. Vegas was clearly right, so that has to mean the NCAA was wrong doesn't it? Something is broken

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:42 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:30 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:26 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:18 pm People keep making this an Ivy League issue and it really shouldn't be. Brown, Cornell, Penn, Yale, and Princeton were all solidly and deservedly in the field. And now that they mostly held serve and the tournament record can't be used to say they're weak, people are grasping at total goals scored. It's beyond grasping at straws and frankly lame; you play to win the game, not to win by the amount of goals ACC fans deem appropriate.

The question at hand was specifically Harvard getting in over ND and Duke. They lost big today and people are conveniently using the margin of defeat to drag the whole conference down. I think when you look at the resume it was a lot closer than people will give credit, but that it's hard to defend putting them in over either of the ACC teams. But it wasn't so lopsided that it warrants all the whining we've seen on ESPN and on Twitter. ND wasn't some juggernaut fated for Memorial Day. They had a shot for sure, but so did a dozen other teams. Last year's team was better.

I agree with almost everything you said. The goal margin was just an interesting stat at net zero exactly. And the rain is ivy specific is the conf schedule raised everyone's rpi.

And it was deservedly so. The conference dominated on the field this year, and that's inarguable. Thus Harvard deserves credit for beating Princeton and Brown. If we're going to use Harvard (the 6th best team in the conference) to ding the Ivy, then why aren't we holding the failings of UNC and Cuse against ND and Duke? After all UNC is ND's best win other than Duke.

You are the first logical and reasonable person I've gotten to converse with today, so thank you very much for that. I can't stand Duke and I'm glad they aren't in and I'm not saying they deserved it, but if I had to put money down the only ivy I would pick over them is Princeton. So if I was a Duke fan I'd be upset watching this weekend. Did they do enough to get in? Apparently not. Did Syracuse significantly hurt the entire acc's rpi? Decidedly yes. And NCAA committee favored brown, but Vegas favored UVA. Vegas was clearly right, so that has to mean the NCAA was wrong doesn't it? Something is broken

CU77 wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:47 pm

Gobigred wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 6:43 pm

CU77 wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 2:36 pm The one change I would make is to follow hockey and use a mathematical formula for selection and seeding. Straight RPI would work just as well as anything else (and would have Duke and ND in this year instead of OSU and Harvard).

No, no, no. There is no mathematical formula worth a p00p that gives good results with such a short season. You, of all people, should know that.

I completely disagree. What doesn't give good results is a bunch of assistant ADs and coaches juggling numbers that they don't understand. Same for the "eye test", which usually involves looking at the school name on the uniform and not much more.

A short season is a short season. It means there is less data for ANY ranking system. I'll take math any day over highly fallible, unknowingly biased human beings.

DALaxDad wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:50 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:42 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:30 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:26 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:18 pm People keep making this an Ivy League issue and it really shouldn't be. Brown, Cornell, Penn, Yale, and Princeton were all solidly and deservedly in the field. And now that they mostly held serve and the tournament record can't be used to say they're weak, people are grasping at total goals scored. It's beyond grasping at straws and frankly lame; you play to win the game, not to win by the amount of goals ACC fans deem appropriate.

The question at hand was specifically Harvard getting in over ND and Duke. They lost big today and people are conveniently using the margin of defeat to drag the whole conference down. I think when you look at the resume it was a lot closer than people will give credit, but that it's hard to defend putting them in over either of the ACC teams. But it wasn't so lopsided that it warrants all the whining we've seen on ESPN and on Twitter. ND wasn't some juggernaut fated for Memorial Day. They had a shot for sure, but so did a dozen other teams. Last year's team was better.

I agree with almost everything you said. The goal margin was just an interesting stat at net zero exactly. And the rain is ivy specific is the conf schedule raised everyone's rpi.

And it was deservedly so. The conference dominated on the field this year, and that's inarguable. Thus Harvard deserves credit for beating Princeton and Brown. If we're going to use Harvard (the 6th best team in the conference) to ding the Ivy, then why aren't we holding the failings of UNC and Cuse against ND and Duke? After all UNC is ND's best win other than Duke.

You are the first logical and reasonable person I've gotten to converse with today, so thank you very much for that. I can't stand Duke and I'm glad they aren't in and I'm not saying they deserved it, but if I had to put money down the only ivy I would pick over them is Princeton. So if I was a Duke fan I'd be upset watching this weekend. Did they do enough to get in? Apparently not. Did Syracuse significantly hurt the entire acc's rpi? Decidedly yes. And NCAA committee favored brown, but Vegas favored UVA. Vegas was clearly right, so that has to mean the NCAA was wrong doesn't it? Something is broken

Maverick, the ACC had Breschi on the committee. What are you saying about his persuasive capabilities?

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:49 pm
Well Penn already beat Duke so there's another Ivy; what's the point of playing the games if we've already decided who the best teams are in spite of what happens in the actual games?

Your last sentence is everything that is wrong with the argument of the people going to bat for the ACC. Who cares what Vegas thinks; if UVA or any Ivy wins the title I guarantee Maryland would be favored by Vegas in a rematch. Should we just do away with the national championship altogether because Vegas disagrees? The point of sports is not to crown the most talented team. It's to crown the team that wins on the field.

DALaxDad wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:55 pm So, the ACC complain is really with Breschi?

CU77 wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:47 pm

Gobigred wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 6:43 pm

CU77 wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 2:36 pm The one change I would make is to follow hockey and use a mathematical formula for selection and seeding. Straight RPI would work just as well as anything else (and would have Duke and ND in this year instead of OSU and Harvard).

No, no, no. There is no mathematical formula worth a p00p that gives good results with such a short season. You, of all people, should know that.

I completely disagree. What doesn't give good results is a bunch of assistant ADs and coaches juggling numbers that they don't understand. Same for the "eye test", which usually involves looking at the school name on the uniform and not much more.

A short season is a short season. It means there is less data for ANY ranking system. I'll take pure math any day over highly fallible, unknowingly biased human beings.

This has the advantage of removing any question of bias.

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:49 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:42 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:30 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:26 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:18 pm People keep making this an Ivy League issue and it really shouldn't be. Brown, Cornell, Penn, Yale, and Princeton were all solidly and deservedly in the field. And now that they mostly held serve and the tournament record can't be used to say they're weak, people are grasping at total goals scored. It's beyond grasping at straws and frankly lame; you play to win the game, not to win by the amount of goals ACC fans deem appropriate.

The question at hand was specifically Harvard getting in over ND and Duke. They lost big today and people are conveniently using the margin of defeat to drag the whole conference down. I think when you look at the resume it was a lot closer than people will give credit, but that it's hard to defend putting them in over either of the ACC teams. But it wasn't so lopsided that it warrants all the whining we've seen on ESPN and on Twitter. ND wasn't some juggernaut fated for Memorial Day. They had a shot for sure, but so did a dozen other teams. Last year's team was better.

I agree with almost everything you said. The goal margin was just an interesting stat at net zero exactly. And the rain is ivy specific is the conf schedule raised everyone's rpi.

And it was deservedly so. The conference dominated on the field this year, and that's inarguable. Thus Harvard deserves credit for beating Princeton and Brown. If we're going to use Harvard (the 6th best team in the conference) to ding the Ivy, then why aren't we holding the failings of UNC and Cuse against ND and Duke? After all UNC is ND's best win other than Duke.

You are the first logical and reasonable person I've gotten to converse with today, so thank you very much for that. I can't stand Duke and I'm glad they aren't in and I'm not saying they deserved it, but if I had to put money down the only ivy I would pick over them is Princeton. So if I was a Duke fan I'd be upset watching this weekend. Did they do enough to get in? Apparently not. Did Syracuse significantly hurt the entire acc's rpi? Decidedly yes. And NCAA committee favored brown, but Vegas favored UVA. Vegas was clearly right, so that has to mean the NCAA was wrong doesn't it? Something is broken

Well Penn already beat Duke so there's another Ivy; what's the point of playing the games if we've already decided who the best teams are in spite of what happens in the actual games?

Your last sentence is everything that is wrong with the argument of the people going to bat for the ACC. Who cares what Vegas thinks; if UVA or any Ivy wins the title I guarantee Maryland would be favored by Vegas in a rematch. Should we just do away with the national championship altogether because Vegas disagrees? The point of sports is not to crown the most talented team. It's to crown the team that wins on the field.

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:01 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:49 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:42 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:30 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:26 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:18 pm People keep making this an Ivy League issue and it really shouldn't be. Brown, Cornell, Penn, Yale, and Princeton were all solidly and deservedly in the field. And now that they mostly held serve and the tournament record can't be used to say they're weak, people are grasping at total goals scored. It's beyond grasping at straws and frankly lame; you play to win the game, not to win by the amount of goals ACC fans deem appropriate.

The question at hand was specifically Harvard getting in over ND and Duke. They lost big today and people are conveniently using the margin of defeat to drag the whole conference down. I think when you look at the resume it was a lot closer than people will give credit, but that it's hard to defend putting them in over either of the ACC teams. But it wasn't so lopsided that it warrants all the whining we've seen on ESPN and on Twitter. ND wasn't some juggernaut fated for Memorial Day. They had a shot for sure, but so did a dozen other teams. Last year's team was better.

I agree with almost everything you said. The goal margin was just an interesting stat at net zero exactly. And the rain is ivy specific is the conf schedule raised everyone's rpi.

And it was deservedly so. The conference dominated on the field this year, and that's inarguable. Thus Harvard deserves credit for beating Princeton and Brown. If we're going to use Harvard (the 6th best team in the conference) to ding the Ivy, then why aren't we holding the failings of UNC and Cuse against ND and Duke? After all UNC is ND's best win other than Duke.

You are the first logical and reasonable person I've gotten to converse with today, so thank you very much for that. I can't stand Duke and I'm glad they aren't in and I'm not saying they deserved it, but if I had to put money down the only ivy I would pick over them is Princeton. So if I was a Duke fan I'd be upset watching this weekend. Did they do enough to get in? Apparently not. Did Syracuse significantly hurt the entire acc's rpi? Decidedly yes. And NCAA committee favored brown, but Vegas favored UVA. Vegas was clearly right, so that has to mean the NCAA was wrong doesn't it? Something is broken

Well Penn already beat Duke so there's another Ivy; what's the point of playing the games if we've already decided who the best teams are in spite of what happens in the actual games?

Your last sentence is everything that is wrong with the argument of the people going to bat for the ACC. Who cares what Vegas thinks; if UVA or any Ivy wins the title I guarantee Maryland would be favored by Vegas in a rematch. Should we just do away with the national championship altogether because Vegas disagrees? The point of sports is not to crown the most talented team. It's to crown the team that wins on the field.

I'm thinking you don't understand Vegas. They don't look at the most talent at all. That's the last thing they care about. All they care about is who will make them or lose them money. Not sure if you've been out there but those casinos are pretty big and nice. They didn't build them by backing the wrong horse

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:06 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:01 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:49 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:42 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:30 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:26 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:18 pm People keep making this an Ivy League issue and it really shouldn't be. Brown, Cornell, Penn, Yale, and Princeton were all solidly and deservedly in the field. And now that they mostly held serve and the tournament record can't be used to say they're weak, people are grasping at total goals scored. It's beyond grasping at straws and frankly lame; you play to win the game, not to win by the amount of goals ACC fans deem appropriate.

The question at hand was specifically Harvard getting in over ND and Duke. They lost big today and people are conveniently using the margin of defeat to drag the whole conference down. I think when you look at the resume it was a lot closer than people will give credit, but that it's hard to defend putting them in over either of the ACC teams. But it wasn't so lopsided that it warrants all the whining we've seen on ESPN and on Twitter. ND wasn't some juggernaut fated for Memorial Day. They had a shot for sure, but so did a dozen other teams. Last year's team was better.

I agree with almost everything you said. The goal margin was just an interesting stat at net zero exactly. And the rain is ivy specific is the conf schedule raised everyone's rpi.

And it was deservedly so. The conference dominated on the field this year, and that's inarguable. Thus Harvard deserves credit for beating Princeton and Brown. If we're going to use Harvard (the 6th best team in the conference) to ding the Ivy, then why aren't we holding the failings of UNC and Cuse against ND and Duke? After all UNC is ND's best win other than Duke.

You are the first logical and reasonable person I've gotten to converse with today, so thank you very much for that. I can't stand Duke and I'm glad they aren't in and I'm not saying they deserved it, but if I had to put money down the only ivy I would pick over them is Princeton. So if I was a Duke fan I'd be upset watching this weekend. Did they do enough to get in? Apparently not. Did Syracuse significantly hurt the entire acc's rpi? Decidedly yes. And NCAA committee favored brown, but Vegas favored UVA. Vegas was clearly right, so that has to mean the NCAA was wrong doesn't it? Something is broken

Well Penn already beat Duke so there's another Ivy; what's the point of playing the games if we've already decided who the best teams are in spite of what happens in the actual games?

Your last sentence is everything that is wrong with the argument of the people going to bat for the ACC. Who cares what Vegas thinks; if UVA or any Ivy wins the title I guarantee Maryland would be favored by Vegas in a rematch. Should we just do away with the national championship altogether because Vegas disagrees? The point of sports is not to crown the most talented team. It's to crown the team that wins on the field.

I'm thinking you don't understand Vegas. They don't look at the most talent at all. That's the last thing they care about. All they care about is who will make them or lose them money. Not sure if you've been out there but those casinos are pretty big and nice. They didn't build them by backing the wrong horse

I think it's semantics in this case. Vegas is picking the team they think will -- I was using "more talented" as a euphemism for that. Bottomline my argument remains the same. Regardless of what happens in this tournament, if Maryland doesn't win and was offered a rematch vs. the champ, Vegas would peg them as the favorite. Does that invalidate the NCAA tournament and its champion? Of course not. Because sometimes the better team doesn't win. There are consequences to what happens on the field, otherwise what's the point?

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:01 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:49 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:42 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:30 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:26 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:18 pm People keep making this an Ivy League issue and it really shouldn't be. Brown, Cornell, Penn, Yale, and Princeton were all solidly and deservedly in the field. And now that they mostly held serve and the tournament record can't be used to say they're weak, people are grasping at total goals scored. It's beyond grasping at straws and frankly lame; you play to win the game, not to win by the amount of goals ACC fans deem appropriate.

The question at hand was specifically Harvard getting in over ND and Duke. They lost big today and people are conveniently using the margin of defeat to drag the whole conference down. I think when you look at the resume it was a lot closer than people will give credit, but that it's hard to defend putting them in over either of the ACC teams. But it wasn't so lopsided that it warrants all the whining we've seen on ESPN and on Twitter. ND wasn't some juggernaut fated for Memorial Day. They had a shot for sure, but so did a dozen other teams. Last year's team was better.

I agree with almost everything you said. The goal margin was just an interesting stat at net zero exactly. And the rain is ivy specific is the conf schedule raised everyone's rpi.

And it was deservedly so. The conference dominated on the field this year, and that's inarguable. Thus Harvard deserves credit for beating Princeton and Brown. If we're going to use Harvard (the 6th best team in the conference) to ding the Ivy, then why aren't we holding the failings of UNC and Cuse against ND and Duke? After all UNC is ND's best win other than Duke.

You are the first logical and reasonable person I've gotten to converse with today, so thank you very much for that. I can't stand Duke and I'm glad they aren't in and I'm not saying they deserved it, but if I had to put money down the only ivy I would pick over them is Princeton. So if I was a Duke fan I'd be upset watching this weekend. Did they do enough to get in? Apparently not. Did Syracuse significantly hurt the entire acc's rpi? Decidedly yes. And NCAA committee favored brown, but Vegas favored UVA. Vegas was clearly right, so that has to mean the NCAA was wrong doesn't it? Something is broken

Well Penn already beat Duke so there's another Ivy; what's the point of playing the games if we've already decided who the best teams are in spite of what happens in the actual games?

Your last sentence is everything that is wrong with the argument of the people going to bat for the ACC. Who cares what Vegas thinks; if UVA or any Ivy wins the title I guarantee Maryland would be favored by Vegas in a rematch. Should we just do away with the national championship altogether because Vegas disagrees? The point of sports is not to crown the most talented team. It's to crown the team that wins on the field.

I'm thinking you don't understand Vegas. They don't look at the most talent at all. That's the last thing they care about. All they care about is who will make them or lose them money. Not sure if you've been out there but those casinos are pretty big and nice. They didn't build them by backing the wrong horse

wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:10 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:01 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:49 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:42 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:30 pm

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:26 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:18 pm People keep making this an Ivy League issue and it really shouldn't be. Brown, Cornell, Penn, Yale, and Princeton were all solidly and deservedly in the field. And now that they mostly held serve and the tournament record can't be used to say they're weak, people are grasping at total goals scored. It's beyond grasping at straws and frankly lame; you play to win the game, not to win by the amount of goals ACC fans deem appropriate.

The question at hand was specifically Harvard getting in over ND and Duke. They lost big today and people are conveniently using the margin of defeat to drag the whole conference down. I think when you look at the resume it was a lot closer than people will give credit, but that it's hard to defend putting them in over either of the ACC teams. But it wasn't so lopsided that it warrants all the whining we've seen on ESPN and on Twitter. ND wasn't some juggernaut fated for Memorial Day. They had a shot for sure, but so did a dozen other teams. Last year's team was better.

I agree with almost everything you said. The goal margin was just an interesting stat at net zero exactly. And the rain is ivy specific is the conf schedule raised everyone's rpi.

And it was deservedly so. The conference dominated on the field this year, and that's inarguable. Thus Harvard deserves credit for beating Princeton and Brown. If we're going to use Harvard (the 6th best team in the conference) to ding the Ivy, then why aren't we holding the failings of UNC and Cuse against ND and Duke? After all UNC is ND's best win other than Duke.

You are the first logical and reasonable person I've gotten to converse with today, so thank you very much for that. I can't stand Duke and I'm glad they aren't in and I'm not saying they deserved it, but if I had to put money down the only ivy I would pick over them is Princeton. So if I was a Duke fan I'd be upset watching this weekend. Did they do enough to get in? Apparently not. Did Syracuse significantly hurt the entire acc's rpi? Decidedly yes. And NCAA committee favored brown, but Vegas favored UVA. Vegas was clearly right, so that has to mean the NCAA was wrong doesn't it? Something is broken

Well Penn already beat Duke so there's another Ivy; what's the point of playing the games if we've already decided who the best teams are in spite of what happens in the actual games?

Your last sentence is everything that is wrong with the argument of the people going to bat for the ACC. Who cares what Vegas thinks; if UVA or any Ivy wins the title I guarantee Maryland would be favored by Vegas in a rematch. Should we just do away with the national championship altogether because Vegas disagrees? The point of sports is not to crown the most talented team. It's to crown the team that wins on the field.

I'm thinking you don't understand Vegas. They don't look at the most talent at all. That's the last thing they care about. All they care about is who will make them or lose them money. Not sure if you've been out there but those casinos are pretty big and nice. They didn't build them by backing the wrong horse

ok, i feel i have to step in here. vegas doesn't back horses. or they wouldn't have those fancy casinos. they play the vig.

opening lines are what they believe sharps will put even money on both sides. the line can shift depending on that and also once the public starts weighing in with their wallets.

vegas plays for the vig on the loser. they want 50% on both sides. do that millions of times and collect the vig on half of all bets and you've got something. they're not predicting who will win by how much. they're setting a line that'll get half the money on each side.

Chousnake wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:11 pm By the reasoning of the ACC fanboys, Georgetown was overseeded too. UP 1 late. Where is the outrage?

Chousnake wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:11 pm By the reasoning of the ACC fanboys, Georgetown was overseeded too. UP 1 late. Where is the outrage?

Chousnake wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:11 pm By the reasoning of the ACC fanboys, Georgetown was overseeded too. UP 1 late. Where is the outrage?

Maverick wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:17 pm

Chousnake wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:11 pm By the reasoning of the ACC fanboys, Georgetown was overseeded too. UP 1 late. Where is the outrage?

Really disappointed by their performance definitely playing way below the standard they set this season. Delaware on the other hand has way exceeded expectations and whatever happens can hold their heads high