Page 89 of 191

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:35 pm
by Brooklyn
PizzaSnake wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:46 pm So Israel didn’t see this coming?

“CAIRO Oct 29 (Reuters) - Impeding relief supplies to Gaza's population may constitute a crime under the International Criminal Court's (ICC) jurisdiction, the court's top prosecutor told a news conference in Egypt on Sunday.”

Stupid or brazen?

No nation on earth has violated UN Security Council ruling more than has Israel:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... ing_Israel

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:00 pm
by MDlaxfan76
Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:49 am
Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:05 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:49 am
Huh??

If you were from Brooklyn you would know what I mean. Among us folks privileged enough to say we are from God's Country, we always say that Brooklyn is the Jewish Capital of the World.

“the Jewish capital of the United States” and a “kosher utopia,” according to David G. Greenfield, who lives and works in Borough Park, in addition to representing it in the City Council.


https://www.google.com/search?q=brookly ... e&ie=UTF-8

tiny.cc/yd1dvz


And we say it with pride!
You wrote:

No more Jews in East New York, Brooklyn as well. Why? Because they chose to move to Canarsie, to Florida, and yes, even to Israel. Just like the folks you are mentioning. Moving is their choice. Anything wrong with that?


Nope. Just clarifying that my reference was only to ENY.
I'm going to assume I'm just dense and there's a reasonable explanation I just haven't discerned.
But you explicitly wrote "No more Jews in East New York, Brooklyn as well"...that sentence, as written, is stating that there are no more Jews in Brooklyn. Which is certainly not accurate. Am I misreading your intent?

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:05 pm
by Brooklyn
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:00 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:49 am
Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:05 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:49 am
Huh??

If you were from Brooklyn you would know what I mean. Among us folks privileged enough to say we are from God's Country, we always say that Brooklyn is the Jewish Capital of the World.

“the Jewish capital of the United States” and a “kosher utopia,” according to David G. Greenfield, who lives and works in Borough Park, in addition to representing it in the City Council.


https://www.google.com/search?q=brookly ... e&ie=UTF-8

tiny.cc/yd1dvz


And we say it with pride!
You wrote:

No more Jews in East New York, Brooklyn as well. Why? Because they chose to move to Canarsie, to Florida, and yes, even to Israel. Just like the folks you are mentioning. Moving is their choice. Anything wrong with that?


Nope. Just clarifying that my reference was only to ENY.
I'm going to assume I'm just dense and there's a reasonable explanation I just haven't discerned.
But you explicitly wrote "No more Jews in East New York, Brooklyn as well"...that sentence, as written, is stating that there are no more Jews in Brooklyn. Which is certainly not accurate. Am I misreading your intent?



For the third or fourth time, I was only referencing the East New York section of Brooklyn where I grew up. Not the rest of the borough where I lived for 35 years.

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:13 pm
by MDlaxfan76
Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:05 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:00 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:49 am
Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:05 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:49 am
Huh??

If you were from Brooklyn you would know what I mean. Among us folks privileged enough to say we are from God's Country, we always say that Brooklyn is the Jewish Capital of the World.

“the Jewish capital of the United States” and a “kosher utopia,” according to David G. Greenfield, who lives and works in Borough Park, in addition to representing it in the City Council.


https://www.google.com/search?q=brookly ... e&ie=UTF-8

tiny.cc/yd1dvz


And we say it with pride!
You wrote:

No more Jews in East New York, Brooklyn as well. Why? Because they chose to move to Canarsie, to Florida, and yes, even to Israel. Just like the folks you are mentioning. Moving is their choice. Anything wrong with that?


Nope. Just clarifying that my reference was only to ENY.
I'm going to assume I'm just dense and there's a reasonable explanation I just haven't discerned.
But you explicitly wrote "No more Jews in East New York, Brooklyn as well"...that sentence, as written, is stating that there are no more Jews in Brooklyn. Which is certainly not accurate. Am I misreading your intent?



For the third or fourth time, I was only referencing the East New York section of Brooklyn where I grew up. Not the rest of the borough where I lived for 35 years.
ahh, so you mean only some small number of streets, one or two neighborhoods in Brooklyn, has "no Jews" there anymore? But the rest of Brooklyn is teeming with Jews??? You sure "no jews" in that neighborhood?

sure, people move to a different neighborhood all the time, neighborhoods certainly turn over...

Brooklyn is a very densely populated place, but is only 71 square miles of land. With over 2.7 million residents.

By comparison, Gaza is twice its size and has just over 2 million residents. Also quite dense.

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:49 pm
by Brooklyn
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 8:13 pm
ahh, so you mean only some small number of streets, one or two neighborhoods in Brooklyn, has "no Jews" there anymore? But the rest of Brooklyn is teeming with Jews??? You sure "no jews" in that neighborhood?

sure, people move to a different neighborhood all the time, neighborhoods certainly turn over...

Brooklyn is a very densely populated place, but is only 71 square miles of land. With over 2.7 million residents.

By comparison, Gaza is twice its size and has just over 2 million residents. Also quite dense.

ENY population is today about 200K. Very Jewish back in the day. There used to be a website of photos of old synagogues in ENY. Sadly, I couldn't find it anymore.

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:31 am
by OCanada
a fan wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:31 pm
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am My concern is when all is said and done there is a permanent and peaceful settlement. In order to achieve that the world needs to understand how we got to where we are. The Nabla was an epic event. The holocaust more so. The European countries and the US denied a mass exodus of Jews to Europe before and after WW ll. Instead they imposed them on the Palestinians. Whose land they had lived on for generations was taken after independence with a promise of a right to return which became just so much confetti. The colonies revolted against England over much less. The Arab countries have been cynical and cruel. They have seen no reason to actually help the Palestinians. Israel has always denied the Palestinians some portion of equality, in the last 30 years they have jettisoned human rights concern with no cost. No reason to stop now.

If people only understand the situation based on western media they are essentially not approaching it with a view to achieve a permanent settlement
The American people don't need to understand anything. Our US Presidents needed to step up and lead, and not just write blank checks for Israel when they were knowingly acting like **holes.

We should have spent the last few decades building Gaza up, and using the US economy to strike trade agreements with the Palestinians there. Give them a nice peaceful place to live, like every family on the planet wants. Instead, we blew trillions on pointless wars.
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am Benjie has been a disaster. The settlers have terrorized Palestinians for decades and been a proxy for the government.
Agree completely. The far right elements in both groups have been working for the last 20 years to make sure there is no peace. It's intentional.
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am How would Alabamans have reacted if the Jewish survivors have been settled there? But then the US would never jave allowed them to do that. I hold the Europeans and Americans responsible for the consequences of their refusenik approach to the Jews almost a century.
That's not the metaphor. How would our own Native American react if Americans were allowed to take their land, and plunder it?

Israel was founded in 1948, yes?

If the Jewish people "stole" that land via imperialism? When are we gonna give Hawaii and Alaska...made States after 1948, stolen via imperialism.... back to the Native Americans?

Everyone everywhere lives on stolen land. Take a good look at world maps before and after just WWII. Are we gonna move ALL the borders to back where they were in 1941? Or just do that for the Jewish people?

What's done is done. We need to figure out how to help these people live in peace, and stop enabling sh*tty behavior.
What is done is done however it is important to take note of the agreement under which Israel was created.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_ ... _Palestine

Because we so far live in a democracy w accountability and voting ( fortunately 1/9 failed ) public support matters. Too bcs hate crimes are rapidly rising understanding is necessary to address it.

The earth now has about 9 billion people and legal infrastructures at least in the developed world. Israel was created with legal actions and expectations not from imperialism. Because of the holocaust the victors decided the Jewish people were entitled to a homeland esp given their governments did not want to let the refugees in nor did they want to carve out their own land. Jews esp zionists want a greater Israel. The Palestinians had little voice in the matter. But statehood carried with it expectations on citizenship, property etc. those expectations were never met. Rather Israel began its ongoing quest for land.

Israel has a saying about dealing with terrorists. “ Time to mow the grass”. It is a routine.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... a-history/

Their approach has always been to use power and if that effort falls short increase the power used ever escalating. It does not want a two state solution though that is the only solution that appears to offer a workable solution. But that coukd hsve been done over the last 70 years and has not. Biden is raiding it again.

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:28 am
by Farfromgeneva
Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 7:32 pm
Farfromgeneva wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:29 pm
Brooklyn wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:44 pm

Quoting that reporter, the only solution is (rather than the status quo) a ONE STATE SOLUTION @ 01:46 under Israeli control. Democratic inclusion of all Gazans & West Bank ~ where have you read that before?




CASE CLOSED
Then stop writing on this topic or debating everyone stupidly like a 6yr old about it. If you are an honest and decent person who believes “case closed” then you shouldn’t feel any need or value in posting on this topic anymore.

Or is that more of the same dumb heuristic?


there are plenty of other issues, oh Great One and Lord Master of the thread
You wrote “case closed”…

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:37 am
by Brooklyn
You wrote “case closed”…

Re the issue as to whether one state solution has any merit. There are other issues as well. Does't take all that much gray matter to ascertain any of that.

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:03 pm
by Brooklyn
OCanada wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:31 am
a fan wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:31 pm
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am My concern is when all is said and done there is a permanent and peaceful settlement. In order to achieve that the world needs to understand how we got to where we are. The Nabla was an epic event. The holocaust more so. The European countries and the US denied a mass exodus of Jews to Europe before and after WW ll. Instead they imposed them on the Palestinians. Whose land they had lived on for generations was taken after independence with a promise of a right to return which became just so much confetti. The colonies revolted against England over much less. The Arab countries have been cynical and cruel. They have seen no reason to actually help the Palestinians. Israel has always denied the Palestinians some portion of equality, in the last 30 years they have jettisoned human rights concern with no cost. No reason to stop now.

If people only understand the situation based on western media they are essentially not approaching it with a view to achieve a permanent settlement
The American people don't need to understand anything. Our US Presidents needed to step up and lead, and not just write blank checks for Israel when they were knowingly acting like **holes.

We should have spent the last few decades building Gaza up, and using the US economy to strike trade agreements with the Palestinians there. Give them a nice peaceful place to live, like every family on the planet wants. Instead, we blew trillions on pointless wars.
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am Benjie has been a disaster. The settlers have terrorized Palestinians for decades and been a proxy for the government.
Agree completely. The far right elements in both groups have been working for the last 20 years to make sure there is no peace. It's intentional.
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am How would Alabamans have reacted if the Jewish survivors have been settled there? But then the US would never jave allowed them to do that. I hold the Europeans and Americans responsible for the consequences of their refusenik approach to the Jews almost a century.
That's not the metaphor. How would our own Native American react if Americans were allowed to take their land, and plunder it?

Israel was founded in 1948, yes?

If the Jewish people "stole" that land via imperialism? When are we gonna give Hawaii and Alaska...made States after 1948, stolen via imperialism.... back to the Native Americans?

Everyone everywhere lives on stolen land. Take a good look at world maps before and after just WWII. Are we gonna move ALL the borders to back where they were in 1941? Or just do that for the Jewish people?

What's done is done. We need to figure out how to help these people live in peace, and stop enabling sh*tty behavior.
What is done is done however it is important to take note of the agreement under which Israel was created.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_ ... _Palestine

Because we so far live in a democracy w accountability and voting ( fortunately 1/9 failed ) public support matters. Too bcs hate crimes are rapidly rising understanding is necessary to address it.

The earth now has about 9 billion people and legal infrastructures at least in the developed world. Israel was created with legal actions and expectations not from imperialism. Because of the holocaust the victors decided the Jewish people were entitled to a homeland esp given their governments did not want to let the refugees in nor did they want to carve out their own land. Jews esp zionists want a greater Israel. The Palestinians had little voice in the matter. But statehood carried with it expectations on citizenship, property etc. those expectations were never met. Rather Israel began its ongoing quest for land.

Israel has a saying about dealing with terrorists. “ Time to mow the grass”. It is a routine.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... a-history/

Their approach has always been to use power and if that effort falls short increase the power used ever escalating. It does not want a two state solution though that is the only solution that appears to offer a workable solution. But that coukd hsve been done over the last 70 years and has not. Biden is raiding it again.


What you say is largely true but deserves a bit more amplification. As my Muslim friend from Iran says, the Europeans created Israel, not so much to give Jewish refugees a homeland, but to give Europeans a foot hold in the Middle East. For over a hundred years European imperialists invaded Congo, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, and other lands. The imperialists killed millions, stole billions in capital, and sought to expand their evil empires (in this, the USA happily joined in such colonialist expansionism when it invaded Iran in 1953 and by its huge financial support of Israel's government). However, these victimized countries fought back and it was clear they were going to take back what was theirs. In order to gain some control over the region, and to "justify" any military incursions into it, they conspired to create Israel. History shows that when Israel had military conflicts to neighboring countries the Euro powers immediately came to its defense. In today's headlines we again see that the government of Europe fiercely support Israel. By contrast, there are many peaceful rallies where multiple thousands of people protest against their governments policy decision. This comes as no surprise given that the majority of the people will not benefit from continued wars. However, wealthy elitist capitalists always profit financially from endless wars. We have the example of Afghanistan and of Iraq to prove that.

If there were no elitist profits to be gained from such conflicts, there would be no support for Israel from Western countries. As I have said many times over the years both on this forum and on the old LP ~ take all profit out of war and we will soon have Peace.

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 12:35 pm
by youthathletics

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:02 pm
by DocBarrister
a fan wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:31 pm
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am My concern is when all is said and done there is a permanent and peaceful settlement. In order to achieve that the world needs to understand how we got to where we are. The Nabla was an epic event. The holocaust more so. The European countries and the US denied a mass exodus of Jews to Europe before and after WW ll. Instead they imposed them on the Palestinians. Whose land they had lived on for generations was taken after independence with a promise of a right to return which became just so much confetti. The colonies revolted against England over much less. The Arab countries have been cynical and cruel. They have seen no reason to actually help the Palestinians. Israel has always denied the Palestinians some portion of equality, in the last 30 years they have jettisoned human rights concern with no cost. No reason to stop now.

If people only understand the situation based on western media they are essentially not approaching it with a view to achieve a permanent settlement
The American people don't need to understand anything. Our US Presidents needed to step up and lead, and not just write blank checks for Israel when they were knowingly acting like **holes.

We should have spent the last few decades building Gaza up, and using the US economy to strike trade agreements with the Palestinians there. Give them a nice peaceful place to live, like every family on the planet wants. Instead, we blew trillions on pointless wars.
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am Benjie has been a disaster. The settlers have terrorized Palestinians for decades and been a proxy for the government.
Agree completely. The far right elements in both groups have been working for the last 20 years to make sure there is no peace. It's intentional.
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am How would Alabamans have reacted if the Jewish survivors have been settled there? But then the US would never jave allowed them to do that. I hold the Europeans and Americans responsible for the consequences of their refusenik approach to the Jews almost a century.
That's not the metaphor. How would our own Native American react if Americans were allowed to take their land, and plunder it?

Israel was founded in 1948, yes?

If the Jewish people "stole" that land via imperialism? When are we gonna give Hawaii and Alaska...made States after 1948, stolen via imperialism.... back to the Native Americans?

Everyone everywhere lives on stolen land. Take a good look at world maps before and after just WWII. Are we gonna move ALL the borders to back where they were in 1941? Or just do that for the Jewish people?

What's done is done. We need to figure out how to help these people live in peace, and stop enabling sh*tty behavior.
Well … “building Gaza up” has not been possible since Hamas took over Gaza in 2007.

DocBarrister

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:41 pm
by a fan
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:02 pm
a fan wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:31 pm
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am My concern is when all is said and done there is a permanent and peaceful settlement. In order to achieve that the world needs to understand how we got to where we are. The Nabla was an epic event. The holocaust more so. The European countries and the US denied a mass exodus of Jews to Europe before and after WW ll. Instead they imposed them on the Palestinians. Whose land they had lived on for generations was taken after independence with a promise of a right to return which became just so much confetti. The colonies revolted against England over much less. The Arab countries have been cynical and cruel. They have seen no reason to actually help the Palestinians. Israel has always denied the Palestinians some portion of equality, in the last 30 years they have jettisoned human rights concern with no cost. No reason to stop now.

If people only understand the situation based on western media they are essentially not approaching it with a view to achieve a permanent settlement
The American people don't need to understand anything. Our US Presidents needed to step up and lead, and not just write blank checks for Israel when they were knowingly acting like **holes.

We should have spent the last few decades building Gaza up, and using the US economy to strike trade agreements with the Palestinians there. Give them a nice peaceful place to live, like every family on the planet wants. Instead, we blew trillions on pointless wars.
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am Benjie has been a disaster. The settlers have terrorized Palestinians for decades and been a proxy for the government.
Agree completely. The far right elements in both groups have been working for the last 20 years to make sure there is no peace. It's intentional.
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am How would Alabamans have reacted if the Jewish survivors have been settled there? But then the US would never jave allowed them to do that. I hold the Europeans and Americans responsible for the consequences of their refusenik approach to the Jews almost a century.
That's not the metaphor. How would our own Native American react if Americans were allowed to take their land, and plunder it?

Israel was founded in 1948, yes?

If the Jewish people "stole" that land via imperialism? When are we gonna give Hawaii and Alaska...made States after 1948, stolen via imperialism.... back to the Native Americans?

Everyone everywhere lives on stolen land. Take a good look at world maps before and after just WWII. Are we gonna move ALL the borders to back where they were in 1941? Or just do that for the Jewish people?

What's done is done. We need to figure out how to help these people live in peace, and stop enabling sh*tty behavior.
Well … “building Gaza up” has not been possible since Hamas took over Gaza in 2007.

DocBarrister
Looks like Israel is trying to put an end to that.......

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:21 pm
by OCanada
DocBarrister wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 1:02 pm
a fan wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 12:31 pm
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am My concern is when all is said and done there is a permanent and peaceful settlement. In order to achieve that the world needs to understand how we got to where we are. The Nabla was an epic event. The holocaust more so. The European countries and the US denied a mass exodus of Jews to Europe before and after WW ll. Instead they imposed them on the Palestinians. Whose land they had lived on for generations was taken after independence with a promise of a right to return which became just so much confetti. The colonies revolted against England over much less. The Arab countries have been cynical and cruel. They have seen no reason to actually help the Palestinians. Israel has always denied the Palestinians some portion of equality, in the last 30 years they have jettisoned human rights concern with no cost. No reason to stop now.

If people only understand the situation based on western media they are essentially not approaching it with a view to achieve a permanent settlement
The American people don't need to understand anything. Our US Presidents needed to step up and lead, and not just write blank checks for Israel when they were knowingly acting like **holes.

We should have spent the last few decades building Gaza up, and using the US economy to strike trade agreements with the Palestinians there. Give them a nice peaceful place to live, like every family on the planet wants. Instead, we blew trillions on pointless wars.
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am Benjie has been a disaster. The settlers have terrorized Palestinians for decades and been a proxy for the government.
Agree completely. The far right elements in both groups have been working for the last 20 years to make sure there is no peace. It's intentional.
OCanada wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 9:12 am How would Alabamans have reacted if the Jewish survivors have been settled there? But then the US would never jave allowed them to do that. I hold the Europeans and Americans responsible for the consequences of their refusenik approach to the Jews almost a century.
That's not the metaphor. How would our own Native American react if Americans were allowed to take their land, and plunder it?

Israel was founded in 1948, yes?

If the Jewish people "stole" that land via imperialism? When are we gonna give Hawaii and Alaska...made States after 1948, stolen via imperialism.... back to the Native Americans?

Everyone everywhere lives on stolen land. Take a good look at world maps before and after just WWII. Are we gonna move ALL the borders to back where they were in 1941? Or just do that for the Jewish people?

What's done is done. We need to figure out how to help these people live in peace, and stop enabling sh*tty behavior.
Well … “building Gaza up” has not been possible since Hamas took over Gaza in 2007.

DocBarrister
For the decades preceding?

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:26 pm
by OCanada
The first seems to protest too much. Ignoring history and the intertwining of responsibility. Diatribe is a good word

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:29 pm
by Brooklyn
‘Human Animals’: The Sordid Language Behind Israel’s Genocide in Gaza


https://original.antiwar.com/ramzy-baro ... e-in-gaza/


“(Tutsis) are cockroaches. We will kill you.”

Arabs are like “drugged cockroaches in a bottle.”

The first quote was a line repeated frequently by the Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines, a Rwandan radio station, which is largely blamed for inciting hatred towards the Tutsi people.

The second is by former Israeli army Chief-of-Staff, Gen. Rafael Eitan in 1983, speaking at an Israeli parliament’s committee.

Rwanda’s hate-filled radio station operated for only one year (1993-94), yet the outcome of its incitement resulted in one of the saddest and most tragic episodes in modern human history: the genocide of the Tutsis.

Compare ‘Radio Genocide’ to the massive Israeli-US-Western propaganda, dehumanizing Palestinians almost with identical language to that used by Hutus media.

Many seem to forget that, long before the Gaza war, on October 7, and even long before the establishment of Israel itself in 1948, the Zionist-Israeli discourse has always been that of racism, dehumanization, erasure and, at times, outright genocide.

If one is to randomly select any period of Israeli history to examine the political discourse emanating from Israeli officials, institutions and even intellectuals, one is to draw the same conclusion: Israel has always built a narrative of incitement and hatred, thus making a constant case for the genocide of Palestinians.

Only recently, this genocidal intent is becoming obvious to many people.

“There is (..) a risk of genocide against the Palestinian People,” the UN experts said in a statement on October 19. But this ‘risk of genocide’ is not born out of recent events.

Indeed, effective political or military actions anywhere in the world hardly take place without an edifice of text and language that facilitates, rationalizes, and justifies those actions. Israel’s perception of Palestinians is a perfect illustration of this claim.

Prior to the establishment of Israel, Zionists denied the very existence of the Palestinians. Many still do.

When that is the case, it becomes only logical to draw a conclusion that Israel, in its own collective mind, cannot be morally culpable of killing those who have never existed in the first place.

Even when Palestinians factor into the Israeli political discourse, they become “bloodthirsty animals”, “terrorists” or “drugged cockroaches in a bottle”.

It would be too convenient to label this as just ‘racist’. Though racism is at work here, this sense of racial supremacy does not exist to merely maintain a socio-political order, in which Israelis are masters and Palestinians are serfs. It is far more complex.

As soon as Palestinian fighters from Gaza crossed into the southern border of Israel, killing hundreds, not a single Israeli politician, analyst or mainstream intellectual seemed interested in the context of the daring act.

The post-October 7 language used by Israelis, but also many Americans, created the atmosphere necessary for the savage Israeli response which followed.

The number of Palestinians killed in the first eight days of the Israeli war against Gaza has reportedly exceeded the number of casualties who were killed during the longest and most destructive Israeli war on the Strip, dubbed “Protective Edge”, in 2014.

According to DCI–Palestine, a Palestinian child is killed every 15 minutes and, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, over 70% of all of Gaza’s casualties are women and children.

For Israel, none of these facts matter. In the mind of Israeli President Isaac Herzog, often perceived as a ‘moderate’, the “rhetoric about civilians not (being) involved (is) absolutely not true.” They are legitimate targets, simply because they “could’ve risen up, they could have fought against that evil regime”, he said, referring to Hamas.

Therefore, “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible,” according to Herzog, who promised payback.

Ariel Kallner, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, explained Israel’s goal behind the Gaza war. “Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948,” he said.

The same sentiment was conveyed by Israeli Defense Minister, Yoav Gallant, the man responsible for translating Israel’s declaration of war into an action plan: “We are fighting human animals and we will act accordingly,” he said on October 9. ‘Accordingly,’ here, meant that “there will be no electricity, no food, no fuel. Everything is closed.” And, of course, thousands of dead civilians.

Since Israel’s top political authorities have already declared that all Palestinians are collectively responsible for the October 7 events, this means that all Palestinians are, per Gallant’s assessment, ‘human animals’, deserving no mercy.

Expectedly, Israel’s supporters in the US and other Western countries joined the chorus, also using the most violent and dehumanizing language, thus cementing mainstream Israeli political discourse among ordinary people.

US presidential hopeful, Nikki Haley, told Fox News on October 10 that the Hamas attack was not just on Israel but “is an attack on America”. It was then that she made her sinister declaration, while looking directly at the camera, “Netanyahu, finish them, finish them (..) finish them!”

Though US President Joe Biden, and his Secretary of State Antony Blinken did not use the exact same words, they both made comparisons between the October 7 events and the terrorist attacks of 9/11. The meaning behind this requires no elaboration.

For his part, US Senator Lindsey Graham rallied American conservative and religious supporters, declaring on October 11, also on Fox News, “We are in a religious war here. (…) Do whatever the hell you have to do. (..) Level the place.”

Much more, equally sinister language was – and continues – to be uttered. The outcome is being broadcast around the clock. Israel is ‘finishing off’ the Gaza civilian population, it is ‘leveling’ thousands of homes, mosques, hospitals, churches and schools. Indeed, it is producing another painful episode of the Nakba.

From Golda Meir’s “Palestinians did not exist” (1969) to Menachem Begin’s Palestinians are “beasts walking on two legs” (1982), to Eli Ben Dahan’s “Palestinians are like animals, they aren’t human” (2013), to numerous other racist and dehumanizing references, the Zionist discourse remains unchanged.

Now, it is all coming together, the language and the action are in perfect alignment. Perhaps, it is time to start paying attention to how Israel’s genocidal language is translated to an actual genocide on the ground. Sadly, for thousands of Palestinian civilians, this awareness is simply too late.





Enemies referred to as "animals" in order to 'justify' repression and extermination.

Hmmmm ~ where have we heard or seen that before?

Ah, easy ~ in Nazi Germany:

https://ojs.lib.uwo.ca/index.php/wester ... view/15961

https://english.elpais.com/society/2022 ... caust.html

https://www.npr.org/2011/03/29/13495618 ... than-human

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:08 am
by MDlaxfan76
Pro-Palestinian protestors interrupting Senate, screaming out during Blinken's opening statement, one after another being led out, presumably being arrested. Now a large group erupting altogether, chanting...it's going to take some time to arrest all of them. The first ones took numerous Capitol Police out with them...additional officers taking control.

They're not being violent, but they will hopefully see the inside of a jail...haven't heard anything directly anti-semitic, "we are not animals", "cease fire now", signs with "tear down all walls". One woman claimed to be a former US army officer...

Capitol Police being calm, moving them out...Blinken re-starting...

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:15 am
by youthathletics
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:08 am Pro-Palestinian protestors interrupting Senate, screaming out during Blinken's opening statement, one after another being led out, presumably being arrested. Now a large group erupting altogether, chanting...it's going to take some time to arrest all of them. The first ones took numerous Capitol Police out with them...additional officers taking control.

They're not being violent, but they will hopefully see the inside of a jail...haven't heard anything directly anti-semitic, "we are not animals", "cease fire now", signs with "tear down all walls". One woman claimed to be a former US army officer...

Capitol Police being calm, moving them out...Blinken re-starting...
you onsite?

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:30 am
by MDlaxfan76
youthathletics wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:15 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:08 am Pro-Palestinian protestors interrupting Senate, screaming out during Blinken's opening statement, one after another being led out, presumably being arrested. Now a large group erupting altogether, chanting...it's going to take some time to arrest all of them. The first ones took numerous Capitol Police out with them...additional officers taking control.

They're not being violent, but they will hopefully see the inside of a jail...haven't heard anything directly anti-semitic, "we are not animals", "cease fire now", signs with "tear down all walls". One woman claimed to be a former US army officer...

Capitol Police being calm, moving them out...Blinken re-starting...
you onsite?
:)
Had the TV on in the background and they cut to it live...now cut away to other matters, but covered much of the protesting disruption. I assume that's over and the hearing is underway.

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:07 am
by OCanada

Re: Israel and Zionism

Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:02 pm
by Jim Malone
What's doing in The Settlements of West Bank?