LaxPower Back-Up Stick

The Orfling wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 4:23 pm Interesting how much variance there is in the Forum Poll on Yale.

I have Yale @ 16; after reading your argument, I agree that that is probably too low.

My ranking is based on: Overall "blah" year for the Ivies and the fact that I've seen them play twice, and both times were beatdowns. Come voting time, it's hard for me to get rid of the image of the Cornell beatdown; Yale's defense looked helpless in that game. That said, teams have bad games, and taking those two games out of the equation, the remainder of their resume is pretty solid, and they probably deserve to be ranked ahead of the like of Syracuse & Rutgers.

ICGrad wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:34 pm

The Orfling wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 4:23 pm Interesting how much variance there is in the Forum Poll on Yale.

I have Yale @ 16; after reading your argument, I agree that that is probably too low.

My ranking is based on: Overall "blah" year for the Ivies and the fact that I've seen them play twice, and both times were beatdowns. Come voting time, it's hard for me to get rid of the image of the Cornell beatdown; Yale's defense looked helpless in that game. That said, teams have bad games, and taking those two games out of the equation, the remainder of their resume is pretty solid, and they probably deserve to be ranked ahead of the like of Syracuse & Rutgers.

I had Yale at #11

9.(17/12=1.4167) Rutgers 8-4 Marist (1), Stony Brook (1), St John’s (1), Loyola (3), Utah (4), Princeton (4), UMass (3), Michigan (4) (Army -1, Ohio State -1, hopkins -1, Maryland -1)

10. (16/12=1.3333) Villanova 9-3 Penn State (5), Delaware (3), Hofstra (1), Drexel (1), Penn (5), Monmouth (1), Navy (1), St Johns (1), Providence(1) (Yale -1, Brown, -1, Denver -1 )

11. (13/10=1.30) Yale 6-4 Villanova (4), UMass (3), Denver (4), BU (3), Dart(2), Brown(2) (Penn State -1 Cornell -1, Princeton -1, Penn -1)


12. (13/10=1.30) Penn 5-5 Georgetown (5), St Joe’s (2), Princeton (4), Yale (5), Harvard (3) (Duke -1, Penn State -1, Villanova -1, Cornell -1, Brown -2)

13. (14/11=1.2727) Denver 7-4 Utah (4), Merrimack (1), UNC (4), Ohio State (4), Villanova (4), Towson(1), St Johns (1) (Air Force -2, Duke -1, Yale -1, gtown -1)

14. (14/11=1.2727) Army. 9-2 Rutgers (4), Wagner (1), Mercer (1), Holy Cross (1), Lafayette (1), Lehigh (3), Loyola [3], Bucknell (1), Colgate (1) (Umass -1, Cornell -1)

With how close those numbers are, I think you could argue for them anywhere from 10 to 14.

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:36 pm

I have Yale @ 16; after reading your argument, I agree that that is probably too low.


With how close those numbers are, I think you could argue for them anywhere from 10 to 14.

Is there anywhere you publish the complete list with game-by-game breakdowns? Personally, I find it excellent. even though I'm sure Doc will come out of the woodwork and criticize where you rank JHU.

ICGrad wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:52 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:36 pm

I have Yale @ 16; after reading your argument, I agree that that is probably too low.


With how close those numbers are, I think you could argue for them anywhere from 10 to 14.

Is there anywhere you publish the complete list with game-by-game breakdowns? Personally, I find it excellent. even though I'm sure Doc will come out of the woodwork and criticize where you rank JHU.

Full list (edited to include missing calculation for Notre Dame):

1. Notre Dame (3.3333)
2. Duke (2.92)
3. Maryland (2.6363)
4. Virginia (2.6363)
5. Penn State (2.5454)
6. Cornell (2.3636)
7. Hopkins (1.92)
8. Georgetown (1.60)
9. Rutgers (1.4167)
10. Villanova (1.3333)
11. Yale (1.30)
12. Penn (1.30)
13. Denver (1.2727)
14. Army (1.2727)
15. Boston U (1.09)
16. UNC (1.0833)
17. Jacksonville (1.0)
18. Syracuse (1.0)
19. Loyola (0.9090)
20. Vermont (0.8181)
21. UMass (0.8181)
22. Brown (0.7272)
23. Harvard (0.7070)
24. Utah (0.6767)
25. Michigan (0.6363)
26. Princeton (0.6060)
27. Delaware (0.5833)
28. Bryant (0.5454)
29. Marquette (0.5454)
30. Lehigh (0.4545)



Top 5 RPI win = 6 points
Top 10 RPI win = 5 points
Top 20 RPI win = 4 points
Top 30 RPI win = 3 points
Top 40 RPI win = 2 points
All other wins = 1 point

Top 25 RPI loss = -1 points
All other losses = -2 points

(30/9=3.333 ) Notre Dame 8-1 Marquette (2), Cleveland State (1), Georgetown (5), Maryland (5), Ohio State (4), Michigan (4), Syracuse (4), Duke (6) (Virginia -1)

(38/13=2.9230) Duke 11-2 Bellarmine (2), High Point (2), Denver (4), Penn (5), Syracuse (4), Loyola (3), UNC (4), Air Force(2), St Josephs(2), Virginia (6), Virginia (6) (Jacksonville -1, Notre Dame -1)

(29/11=2.6363) Maryland 8-3 Richmond (3), Syracuse (4), Princeton (4), Albany (2), Virginia (6), Penn State (5), Ohio State (4), Rutgers (4) (Loyola -1, Notre Dame -1, Michigan -1)

(29/11=2.6363) Virginia 8-3 Michigan (4), Harvard (3), Ohio State (4), Richmond (3), Hopkins(6), Towson (1), Notre Dame(6), UNC (4) (Maryland -1, Duke -1, Duke -1)


(28/11=2.5454) Penn State 8-3 Lafayette (1), Stony Brook(1), Yale (5), Penn (5), Cornell (6), Ohio State (4), Hopkins (6), Michigan(4) (Villanova -1, Marquette -2, Maryland -1)

(26/11=2.3636 Cornell 9-2 Albany (3), Lehigh (3), Hobart (1), Ohio State (4), Yale (5), Penn(5), Dartmouth (2), Marquette(2), Army (3), (Penn State -1, Harvard -1)

(27/14=1.9286) Hopkins 10-4 Georgetown(5), Jacksonville (3), Utah (4), St Josephs (2), Syracuse (4), Delaware (3), Navy (2). Michigan(4), Ohio State (4) (North Carolina -1, Loyola -1, UVA -1, Penn State -1)


(16/10=1.60) Georgetown 7-3 Princeton (4), Richmond (3). High Point (2), Lehigh (3), Denver (4), Providence (1), Marquette (2) (Hopkins -1, Penn -1, ND -1)

(17/12=1.4167) Rutgers 8-4 Marist (1), Stony Brook (1), St John’s (1), Loyola (3), Utah (4), Princeton (4), UMass (3), Michigan (4) (Army -1, Ohio State -1, hopkins -1, Maryland -1)

(16/12=1.3333) Villanova 9-3 Penn State (5), Delaware (3), Hofstra (1), Drexel (1), Penn (5), Monmouth (1), Navy (1), St Johns (1), Providence(1) (Yale -1, Brown, -1, Denver -1 )

(13/10=1.30) Yale 6-4 Villanova (4), UMass (3), Denver (4), BU (3), Dart(2), Brown(2) (Penn State -1 Cornell -1, Princeton -2, Penn -1)


(13/10=1.30) Penn 5-5 Georgetown (5), St Joe’s (2), Princeton (4), Yale (5), Harvard (3) (Duke -1, Penn State -1, Villanova -1, Cornell -1, Brown -2)

(14/11=1.2727) Denver 7-4[/b] Utah (4), Merrimack (1), UNC (4), Ohio State (4), Villanova (4), Towson(1), St Johns (1) (Air Force -2, Duke -1, Yale -1, gtown -1)

(14/11=1.2727) Army. 9-2 Rutgers (4), Wagner (1), Mercer (1), Holy Cross (1), Lafayette (1), Lehigh (3), Loyola [3], Bucknell (1), Colgate (1) (Umass -1, Cornell -1)


12/11=1.0909) Boston U 8-3 Bryant (3), UMass (3), Colgate (1), Bucknell (1), Holy Cross (1), Harvard (3), Lafayette (1), Loyola (3) (Vermont -1, Navy -2, Yale -1 )


(13/12=1.0833) North Carolina 7-5 Mercer (1), Hopkins (6), Syracuse (4), Brown (2), Dartmouth (2), High Point (2), Providence (1) (Ohio State -1, Denver -1, Duke -1, UVA -1, Cuse -1)

(13/13= 1.0 Syracuse 8-5 Vermont (4), Albany (2), Holy Cross (1), Hofstra (1) Hobart (1) st bon (1) Princeton (4), UNC (4) (Maryland -1, UNC -1, Duke -1, Hopkins -1, ND -1)

(13/13=1.0000) Jacksonville 11-2 Marist (1), Duke (6), High Point (2), UMass Lowell (1), St Johns (1), Mercer (1), Cleveland State (1), Queens (1), Lindwood(1) (Hopkins -1, Utah -1)

(10/11=0.9090) Loyola 6-5 Maryland (6), Hopkins (6), Towson (1), Lafayette (1), Bucknell (1). Holy Cross (1) (Rutgers -1, Duke -1, Army -1, Navy -2, Boston U (1))

(9/11=0.8181) Vermont 7-4 BU (3), Utah (4), NJIT 1, ALB (2), Merr (1). Bing (1), Bryant (3) (Cuse -1, Brown -2, Harvard -1, Mass -1)

(9/11=0.8181) UMass 7-4 Umass Lowell (1), Army (3), Vermont (4), Albany (2), brown (2), HP (2), St Bon(1) (Boston U -2, Yale -1, Rutgers -1, Richmond -2 )


8/11=0.7272 Brown 5-6 PC (1), UVM (4), STB (1), Nova (4), Penn (5) (Quinnapiac -2, UNC -1, Harvard -1, Mass -1, Princeton -1, Yale -1)

(7/10=0.70)Harvard 5-5 Bucknell (1), UVM (4), Brown (2), Colgate (1), Cornell (5) (UVA -1, Mich -1, BU -1, Dart -2, Penn -1)

(8/12=0.6767)Utah 8-4 Marquette (2), Bellarmine (2), DM (1), Air Force (2), Jacksonville (3), RM (1), Mercer(1) (Denver -1, Vermont -1, Hopkins -1, Rutgers -1)

(7/11=0.6363) Michigan 5-6 Hofstra (1), Canisius (1), Delaware (3), Harvard (3), Maryland (6) (Marquette -2, UVA -1, ND -1, Hopkins -1, Rutgers -1, Penn State -1)

(6/10=0.60) Princeton 5-5 Monmouth (1), Manhattan (1)) Yale 5, Brown (2), Dartmouth (2) (Maryland (-1), Georgetown (-1), Rutgers (-1), Penn (-1), Syracuse -1)

(7/12=0.5833) Delaware 9-3 Lafayette (1), Mt St Marys (1) , St Johns (1), UMBC (2), Monmouth (1) hof 1, Hampton 1, Fairfield (1), Stony Brook (1) (Villanova -1, Michigan -1, Hopkins -1)

(6/11=0.5454) Bryant 8-3 Providence (1), Quinnapiac (1), Manhattan (1), Fairfield (1), UMBC (2) Lowell 1, NJIT 1, Albany (2) (Boston U -1, AF -2, Vermont -1)

(6/11=0.5454) Marquette 6-5[/b] Lindwood (1), Michigan (4), Detroit (1), Penn State (5), St Bon (1), St Johns (1) (Utah -1, ND -1, Bellarmine -2, Providence -2, Gtown -1)

(5/11=0.4545) Lehigh 8-3 Fairfield (1), Hobart (1), Navy (1), Bing (1), HC (1), Lafayette (1), Bucknell (1), Colgate 1 (Cornell -1, Army -1, Georgetown -1)

Not much for a Hop fan to complain about. Your 7 matches Massey and is one more generous than the Power Ranking.

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:19 pm
Full list:

Thanks!

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:19 pm

ICGrad wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:52 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:36 pm

I have Yale @ 16; after reading your argument, I agree that that is probably too low.


With how close those numbers are, I think you could argue for them anywhere from 10 to 14.

Is there anywhere you publish the complete list with game-by-game breakdowns? Personally, I find it excellent. even though I'm sure Doc will come out of the woodwork and criticize where you rank JHU.

Full list:

1. Duke (2.92)
2. Notre Dame (2.889)
3. Maryland (2.6363)
4. Virginia (2.6363)
5. Penn State (2.5454)
6. Cornell (2.3636)
7. Hopkins (1.92)
8. Georgetown (1.60)
9. Rutgers (1.4167)
10. Villanova (1.3333)
11. Yale (1.30)
12. Penn (1.30)
13. Denver (1.2727)
14. Army (1.2727)
15. Boston U (1.09)
16. UNC (1.0833)
17. Jacksonville (1.0)
18. Syracuse (1.0)
19. Loyola (0.9090)
20. Vermont (0.8181)
21. UMass (0.8181)
22. Brown (0.7272)
23. Harvard (0.7070)
24. Utah (0.6767)
25. Michigan (0.6363)
26. Princeton (0.6060)
27. Delaware (0.5833)
28. Bryant (0.5454)
29. Marquette (0.5454)
30. Lehigh (0.4545)



Top 5 RPI win = 6 points
Top 10 RPI win = 5 points
Top 20 RPI win = 4 points
Top 30 RPI win = 3 points
Top 40 RPI win = 2 points
All other wins = 1 point

Top 25 RPI loss = -1 points
All other losses = -2 points



(38/13=2.9230) Duke 11-2 Bellarmine (2), High Point (2), Denver (4), Penn (5), Syracuse (4), Loyola (3), UNC (4), Air Force(2), St Josephs(2), Virginia (6), Virginia (6) (Jacksonville -1, Notre Dame -1)

(26/9=2.8889 ) Notre Dame 8-1 Marquette (2), Cleveland State (1), Georgetown (5), Maryland (5), Ohio State (4), Michigan (4), Duke (6) (Virginia -1)

(29/11=2.6363) Maryland 8-3 Richmond (3), Syracuse (4), Princeton (4), Albany (2), Virginia (6), Penn State (5), Ohio State (4), Rutgers (4) (Loyola -1, Notre Dame -1, Michigan -1)

(29/11=2.6363) Virginia 8-3 Michigan (4), Harvard (3), Ohio State (4), Richmond (3), Hopkins(6), Towson (1), Notre Dame(6), UNC (4) (Maryland -1, Duke -1, Duke -1)


(28/11=2.5454) Penn State 8-3 Lafayette (1), Stony Brook(1), Yale (5), Penn (5), Cornell (6), Ohio State (4), Hopkins (6), Michigan(4) (Villanova -1, Marquette -2, Maryland -1)

(26/11=2.3636 Cornell 9-2 Albany (3), Lehigh (3), Hobart (1), Ohio State (4), Yale (5), Penn(5), Dartmouth (2), Marquette(2), Army (3), (Penn State -1, Harvard -1)

(27/14=1.9286) Hopkins 10-4 Georgetown(5), Jacksonville (3), Utah (4), St Josephs (2), Syracuse (4), Delaware (3), Navy (2). Michigan(4), Ohio State (4) (North Carolina -1, Loyola -1, UVA -1, Penn State -1)


(16/10=1.60) Georgetown 7-3 Princeton (4), Richmond (3). High Point (2), Lehigh (3), Denver (4), Providence (1), Marquette (2) (Hopkins -1, Penn -1, ND -1)

(17/12=1.4167) Rutgers 8-4 Marist (1), Stony Brook (1), St John’s (1), Loyola (3), Utah (4), Princeton (4), UMass (3), Michigan (4) (Army -1, Ohio State -1, hopkins -1, Maryland -1)

(16/12=1.3333) Villanova 9-3 Penn State (5), Delaware (3), Hofstra (1), Drexel (1), Penn (5), Monmouth (1), Navy (1), St Johns (1), Providence(1) (Yale -1, Brown, -1, Denver -1 )

(13/10=1.30) Yale 6-4 Villanova (4), UMass (3), Denver (4), BU (3), Dart(2), Brown(2) (Penn State -1 Cornell -1, Princeton -2, Penn -1)


(13/10=1.30) Penn 5-5 Georgetown (5), St Joe’s (2), Princeton (4), Yale (5), Harvard (3) (Duke -1, Penn State -1, Villanova -1, Cornell -1, Brown -2)

(14/11=1.2727) Denver 7-4[/b] Utah (4), Merrimack (1), UNC (4), Ohio State (4), Villanova (4), Towson(1), St Johns (1) (Air Force -2, Duke -1, Yale -1, gtown -1)

(14/11=1.2727) Army. 9-2 Rutgers (4), Wagner (1), Mercer (1), Holy Cross (1), Lafayette (1), Lehigh (3), Loyola [3], Bucknell (1), Colgate (1) (Umass -1, Cornell -1)


12/11=1.0909) Boston U 8-3 Bryant (3), UMass (3), Colgate (1), Bucknell (1), Holy Cross (1), Harvard (3), Lafayette (1), Loyola (3) (Vermont -1, Navy -2, Yale -1 )


(13/12=1.0833) North Carolina 7-5 Mercer (1), Hopkins (6), Syracuse (4), Brown (2), Dartmouth (2), High Point (2), Providence (1) (Ohio State -1, Denver -1, Duke -1, UVA -1, Cuse -1)

(13/13= 1.0 Syracuse 8-5 Vermont (4), Albany (2), Holy Cross (1), Hofstra (1) Hobart (1) st bon (1) Princeton (4), UNC (4) (Maryland -1, UNC -1, Duke -1, Hopkins -1, ND -1)

(13/13=1.0000) Jacksonville 11-2 Marist (1), Duke (6), High Point (2), UMass Lowell (1), St Johns (1), Mercer (1), Cleveland State (1), Queens (1), Lindwood(1) (Hopkins -1, Utah -1)

(10/11=0.9090) Loyola 6-5 Maryland (6), Hopkins (6), Towson (1), Lafayette (1), Bucknell (1). Holy Cross (1) (Rutgers -1, Duke -1, Army -1, Navy -2, Boston U (1))

(9/11=0.8181) Vermont 7-4 BU (3), Utah (4), NJIT 1, ALB (2), Merr (1). Bing (1), Bryant (3) (Cuse -1, Brown -2, Harvard -1, Mass -1)

(9/11=0.8181) UMass 7-4 Umass Lowell (1), Army (3), Vermont (4), Albany (2), brown (2), HP (2), St Bon(1) (Boston U -2, Yale -1, Rutgers -1, Richmond -2 )


8/11=0.7272 Brown 5-6 PC (1), UVM (4), STB (1), Nova (4), Penn (5) (Quinnapiac -2, UNC -1, Harvard -1, Mass -1, Princeton -1, Yale -1)

(7/10=0.70)Harvard 5-5 Bucknell (1), UVM (4), Brown (2), Colgate (1), Cornell (5) (UVA -1, Mich -1, BU -1, Dart -2, Penn -1)

(8/12=0.6767)Utah 8-4 Marquette (2), Bellarmine (2), DM (1), Air Force (2), Jacksonville (3), RM (1), Mercer(1) (Denver -1, Vermont -1, Hopkins -1, Rutgers -1)

(7/11=0.6363) Michigan 5-6 Hofstra (1), Canisius (1), Delaware (3), Harvard (3), Maryland (6) (Marquette -2, UVA -1, ND -1, Hopkins -1, Rutgers -1, Penn State -1)

(6/10=0.60) Princeton 5-5 Monmouth (1), Manhattan (1)) Yale 5, Brown (2), Dartmouth (2) (Maryland (-1), Georgetown (-1), Rutgers (-1), Penn (-1), Syracuse -1)

(7/12=0.5833) Delaware 9-3 Lafayette (1), Mt St Marys (1) , St Johns (1), UMBC (2), Monmouth (1) hof 1, Hampton 1, Fairfield (1), Stony Brook (1) (Villanova -1, Michigan -1, Hopkins -1)

(6/11=0.5454) Bryant 8-3 Providence (1), Quinnapiac (1), Manhattan (1), Fairfield (1), UMBC (2) Lowell 1, NJIT 1, Albany (2) (Boston U -1, AF -2, Vermont -1)

(6/11=0.5454) Marquette 6-5[/b] Lindwood (1), Michigan (4), Detroit (1), Penn State (5), St Bon (1), St Johns (1) (Utah -1, ND -1, Bellarmine -2, Providence -2, Gtown -1)

(5/11=0.4545) Lehigh 8-3 Fairfield (1), Hobart (1), Navy (1), Bing (1), HC (1), Lafayette (1), Bucknell (1), Colgate 1 (Cornell -1, Army -1, Georgetown -1)

This is just an amazingly great ratings system that doesn't employ crazy formulas an equations that I have to process given that Calculus eluded me during my time at Cornell.

This is the best system I have seen and it's ratings are simply based on the quality of your wins and losses.

Thanks for doing this and please send your results to the selection committee, labeled URGENT.
Gobigred
Joewillie78

You value wins over losses. If it is a five-minute exercise, I would be interested if the rankings would change much if you tried this instead:

Top 5 RPI win = 6 points
Top 10 RPI win = 5 points
Top 20 RPI win = 4 points
Top 30 RPI win = 3 points
Top 40 RPI win = 2 points
All other wins = 1 point

Top 5 RPI loss = -1 point
Top 10 RPI loss = -2 points
Top 20 RPI loss = -3 points
Top 30 RPI loss = -4 points
Top 40 RPI loss = -5 points
All other losses = -6 points

So maybe Duke's loss to Jax would put them below ND?

joewillie78 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:08 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:19 pm

ICGrad wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:52 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:36 pm

I have Yale @ 16; after reading your argument, I agree that that is probably too low.


With how close those numbers are, I think you could argue for them anywhere from 10 to 14.

Is there anywhere you publish the complete list with game-by-game breakdowns? Personally, I find it excellent. even though I'm sure Doc will come out of the woodwork and criticize where you rank JHU.

Full list:

1. Duke (2.92)
2. Notre Dame (2.889)
3. Maryland (2.6363)
4. Virginia (2.6363)
5. Penn State (2.5454)
6. Cornell (2.3636)
7. Hopkins (1.92)
8. Georgetown (1.60)
9. Rutgers (1.4167)
10. Villanova (1.3333)
11. Yale (1.30)
12. Penn (1.30)
13. Denver (1.2727)
14. Army (1.2727)
15. Boston U (1.09)
16. UNC (1.0833)
17. Jacksonville (1.0)
18. Syracuse (1.0)
19. Loyola (0.9090)
20. Vermont (0.8181)
21. UMass (0.8181)
22. Brown (0.7272)
23. Harvard (0.7070)
24. Utah (0.6767)
25. Michigan (0.6363)
26. Princeton (0.6060)
27. Delaware (0.5833)
28. Bryant (0.5454)
29. Marquette (0.5454)
30. Lehigh (0.4545)



Top 5 RPI win = 6 points
Top 10 RPI win = 5 points
Top 20 RPI win = 4 points
Top 30 RPI win = 3 points
Top 40 RPI win = 2 points
All other wins = 1 point

Top 25 RPI loss = -1 points
All other losses = -2 points



(38/13=2.9230) Duke 11-2 Bellarmine (2), High Point (2), Denver (4), Penn (5), Syracuse (4), Loyola (3), UNC (4), Air Force(2), St Josephs(2), Virginia (6), Virginia (6) (Jacksonville -1, Notre Dame -1)

(26/9=2.8889 ) Notre Dame 8-1 Marquette (2), Cleveland State (1), Georgetown (5), Maryland (5), Ohio State (4), Michigan (4), Duke (6) (Virginia -1)

(29/11=2.6363) Maryland 8-3 Richmond (3), Syracuse (4), Princeton (4), Albany (2), Virginia (6), Penn State (5), Ohio State (4), Rutgers (4) (Loyola -1, Notre Dame -1, Michigan -1)

(29/11=2.6363) Virginia 8-3 Michigan (4), Harvard (3), Ohio State (4), Richmond (3), Hopkins(6), Towson (1), Notre Dame(6), UNC (4) (Maryland -1, Duke -1, Duke -1)


(28/11=2.5454) Penn State 8-3 Lafayette (1), Stony Brook(1), Yale (5), Penn (5), Cornell (6), Ohio State (4), Hopkins (6), Michigan(4) (Villanova -1, Marquette -2, Maryland -1)

(26/11=2.3636 Cornell 9-2 Albany (3), Lehigh (3), Hobart (1), Ohio State (4), Yale (5), Penn(5), Dartmouth (2), Marquette(2), Army (3), (Penn State -1, Harvard -1)

(27/14=1.9286) Hopkins 10-4 Georgetown(5), Jacksonville (3), Utah (4), St Josephs (2), Syracuse (4), Delaware (3), Navy (2). Michigan(4), Ohio State (4) (North Carolina -1, Loyola -1, UVA -1, Penn State -1)


(16/10=1.60) Georgetown 7-3 Princeton (4), Richmond (3). High Point (2), Lehigh (3), Denver (4), Providence (1), Marquette (2) (Hopkins -1, Penn -1, ND -1)

(17/12=1.4167) Rutgers 8-4 Marist (1), Stony Brook (1), St John’s (1), Loyola (3), Utah (4), Princeton (4), UMass (3), Michigan (4) (Army -1, Ohio State -1, hopkins -1, Maryland -1)

(16/12=1.3333) Villanova 9-3 Penn State (5), Delaware (3), Hofstra (1), Drexel (1), Penn (5), Monmouth (1), Navy (1), St Johns (1), Providence(1) (Yale -1, Brown, -1, Denver -1 )

(13/10=1.30) Yale 6-4 Villanova (4), UMass (3), Denver (4), BU (3), Dart(2), Brown(2) (Penn State -1 Cornell -1, Princeton -2, Penn -1)


(13/10=1.30) Penn 5-5 Georgetown (5), St Joe’s (2), Princeton (4), Yale (5), Harvard (3) (Duke -1, Penn State -1, Villanova -1, Cornell -1, Brown -2)

(14/11=1.2727) Denver 7-4[/b] Utah (4), Merrimack (1), UNC (4), Ohio State (4), Villanova (4), Towson(1), St Johns (1) (Air Force -2, Duke -1, Yale -1, gtown -1)

(14/11=1.2727) Army. 9-2 Rutgers (4), Wagner (1), Mercer (1), Holy Cross (1), Lafayette (1), Lehigh (3), Loyola [3], Bucknell (1), Colgate (1) (Umass -1, Cornell -1)


12/11=1.0909) Boston U 8-3 Bryant (3), UMass (3), Colgate (1), Bucknell (1), Holy Cross (1), Harvard (3), Lafayette (1), Loyola (3) (Vermont -1, Navy -2, Yale -1 )


(13/12=1.0833) North Carolina 7-5 Mercer (1), Hopkins (6), Syracuse (4), Brown (2), Dartmouth (2), High Point (2), Providence (1) (Ohio State -1, Denver -1, Duke -1, UVA -1, Cuse -1)

(13/13= 1.0 Syracuse 8-5 Vermont (4), Albany (2), Holy Cross (1), Hofstra (1) Hobart (1) st bon (1) Princeton (4), UNC (4) (Maryland -1, UNC -1, Duke -1, Hopkins -1, ND -1)

(13/13=1.0000) Jacksonville 11-2 Marist (1), Duke (6), High Point (2), UMass Lowell (1), St Johns (1), Mercer (1), Cleveland State (1), Queens (1), Lindwood(1) (Hopkins -1, Utah -1)

(10/11=0.9090) Loyola 6-5 Maryland (6), Hopkins (6), Towson (1), Lafayette (1), Bucknell (1). Holy Cross (1) (Rutgers -1, Duke -1, Army -1, Navy -2, Boston U (1))

(9/11=0.8181) Vermont 7-4 BU (3), Utah (4), NJIT 1, ALB (2), Merr (1). Bing (1), Bryant (3) (Cuse -1, Brown -2, Harvard -1, Mass -1)

(9/11=0.8181) UMass 7-4 Umass Lowell (1), Army (3), Vermont (4), Albany (2), brown (2), HP (2), St Bon(1) (Boston U -2, Yale -1, Rutgers -1, Richmond -2 )


8/11=0.7272 Brown 5-6 PC (1), UVM (4), STB (1), Nova (4), Penn (5) (Quinnapiac -2, UNC -1, Harvard -1, Mass -1, Princeton -1, Yale -1)

(7/10=0.70)Harvard 5-5 Bucknell (1), UVM (4), Brown (2), Colgate (1), Cornell (5) (UVA -1, Mich -1, BU -1, Dart -2, Penn -1)

(8/12=0.6767)Utah 8-4 Marquette (2), Bellarmine (2), DM (1), Air Force (2), Jacksonville (3), RM (1), Mercer(1) (Denver -1, Vermont -1, Hopkins -1, Rutgers -1)

(7/11=0.6363) Michigan 5-6 Hofstra (1), Canisius (1), Delaware (3), Harvard (3), Maryland (6) (Marquette -2, UVA -1, ND -1, Hopkins -1, Rutgers -1, Penn State -1)

(6/10=0.60) Princeton 5-5 Monmouth (1), Manhattan (1)) Yale 5, Brown (2), Dartmouth (2) (Maryland (-1), Georgetown (-1), Rutgers (-1), Penn (-1), Syracuse -1)

(7/12=0.5833) Delaware 9-3 Lafayette (1), Mt St Marys (1) , St Johns (1), UMBC (2), Monmouth (1) hof 1, Hampton 1, Fairfield (1), Stony Brook (1) (Villanova -1, Michigan -1, Hopkins -1)

(6/11=0.5454) Bryant 8-3 Providence (1), Quinnapiac (1), Manhattan (1), Fairfield (1), UMBC (2) Lowell 1, NJIT 1, Albany (2) (Boston U -1, AF -2, Vermont -1)

(6/11=0.5454) Marquette 6-5[/b] Lindwood (1), Michigan (4), Detroit (1), Penn State (5), St Bon (1), St Johns (1) (Utah -1, ND -1, Bellarmine -2, Providence -2, Gtown -1)

(5/11=0.4545) Lehigh 8-3 Fairfield (1), Hobart (1), Navy (1), Bing (1), HC (1), Lafayette (1), Bucknell (1), Colgate 1 (Cornell -1, Army -1, Georgetown -1)

This is just an amazingly great ratings system that doesn't employ crazy formulas an equations that I have to process given that Calculus eluded me during my time at Cornell.

This is the best system I have seen and it's ratings are simply based on the quality of your wins and losses.

Thanks for doing this and please send your results to the selection committee, labeled URGENT.
Gobigred
Joewillie78

To be fair, the crazy calculations are embedded in the RPI that this piggy backs on. But it feels like it smooths out the edges of that ranking. You could presumably do the same with any other formula based ranking system as the base, but I go with RPI because that’s what the selection committee uses.

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:54 pm
To be fair, the crazy calculations are embedded in the RPI that this piggy backs on.

I agree; I really like the end-result and I like the methodology; I just dislike the RPI-reliance. But I guess we all gotta serve somebody.

And I'm 100% am on board with it smoothing out the rough edges of the RPI; this does a great job of accomplishing that.

ICGrad wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 9:06 pm

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:54 pm
To be fair, the crazy calculations are embedded in the RPI that this piggy backs on.

I agree; I really like the end-result and I like the methodology; I just dislike the RPI-reliance. But I guess we all gotta serve somebody.

And I'm 100% am on board with it smoothing out the rough edges of the RPI; this does a great job of accomplishing that.

Yes, impressive work!

44WeWantMore wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:47 pm You value wins over losses. If it is a five-minute exercise, I would be interested if the rankings would change much if you tried this instead:

Top 5 RPI win = 6 points
Top 10 RPI win = 5 points
Top 20 RPI win = 4 points
Top 30 RPI win = 3 points
Top 40 RPI win = 2 points
All other wins = 1 point

Top 5 RPI loss = -1 point
Top 10 RPI loss = -2 points
Top 20 RPI loss = -3 points
Top 30 RPI loss = -4 points
Top 40 RPI loss = -5 points
All other losses = -6 points

So maybe Duke's loss to Jax would put them below ND?

I think that approach would overly penalize teams that don’t or aren’t able to play a strong schedule. I’d rather teams be defined by their wins than their losses. I think you see with a team like Ohio State (outside top 30) that if you don’t win, you don’t do well in this system.

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:19 pm
(26/9=2.8889 ) Notre Dame 8-1 Marquette (2), Cleveland State (1), Georgetown (5), Maryland (5), Ohio State (4), Michigan (4), Duke (6) (Virginia -1)

Are you missing ND's win over Syracuse in calculating their ranking? If so, I think they would be #1.

Assuming Syracuse is top 20 RPI (I'm too lazy to look it up), that would be 26+4, still divided by 9, for a 3.333 rating.

rolldodge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:45 am

44WeWantMore wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 7:47 pm You value wins over losses. If it is a five-minute exercise, I would be interested if the rankings would change much if you tried this instead:

Top 5 RPI win = 6 points
Top 10 RPI win = 5 points
Top 20 RPI win = 4 points
Top 30 RPI win = 3 points
Top 40 RPI win = 2 points
All other wins = 1 point

Top 5 RPI loss = -1 point
Top 10 RPI loss = -2 points
Top 20 RPI loss = -3 points
Top 30 RPI loss = -4 points
Top 40 RPI loss = -5 points
All other losses = -6 points

So maybe Duke's loss to Jax would put them below ND?

I think that approach would overly penalize teams that don’t or aren’t able to play a strong schedule. I’d rather teams be defined by their wins than their losses. I think you see with a team like Ohio State (outside top 30) that if you don’t win, you don’t do well in this system.

It would be interesting to pair this system with one that rewards overall record. Say by taking a team's winning percentage and multiplying it by the number of games they have played have played.

Then you can combine the two outcome (with system 44 laid out) with weighting between each based on your bias.

I did a quick analysis of Duke, ND, UVA, Hopkins and OSU:

Duke: 50 (RPI 39 + W/L 11)
ND: 34 (RPI 26 + W/L 8)
UVA: 29 (RPI 21 + W/L 8)
Hopkins: 25 (RPI 15 + W/L 10)
OSU: 7 (RPI 2 + W/L 5)

ICGrad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:58 am

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:19 pm
(26/9=2.8889 ) Notre Dame 8-1 Marquette (2), Cleveland State (1), Georgetown (5), Maryland (5), Ohio State (4), Michigan (4), Duke (6) (Virginia -1)

Are you missing ND's win over Syracuse in calculating their ranking? If so, I think they would be #1.

Assuming Syracuse is top 20 RPI (I'm too lazy to look it up), that would be 26+4, still divided by 9, for a 3.333 rating.

Yep, you are right. Syracuse RPI is #19. ND should be at the top of the list, and by a solid margin.

(30/9=3.333 ) Notre Dame 8-1 Marquette (2), Cleveland State (1), Georgetown (5), Maryland (5), Ohio State (4), Michigan (4), Syracuse (4), Duke (6) (Virginia -1)

rolldodge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 12:00 pm

ICGrad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 8:58 am

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:19 pm
(26/9=2.8889 ) Notre Dame 8-1 Marquette (2), Cleveland State (1), Georgetown (5), Maryland (5), Ohio State (4), Michigan (4), Duke (6) (Virginia -1)

Are you missing ND's win over Syracuse in calculating their ranking? If so, I think they would be #1.

Assuming Syracuse is top 20 RPI (I'm too lazy to look it up), that would be 26+4, still divided by 9, for a 3.333 rating.

Yep, you are right. Syracuse RPI is #19. ND should be at the top of the list, and by a solid margin.

(30/9=3.333 ) Notre Dame 8-1 Marquette (2), Cleveland State (1), Georgetown (5), Maryland (5), Ohio State (4), Michigan (4), Syracuse (4), Duke (6) (Virginia -1)

OMG! IT'S TRUE!!! THERE IS AN ANTI-ND CONSPIRACY!!!

Reminder: FanLax Forum Polls are due on Monday (Today) at noon EST. Enjoy this weekend's games. Forum Poll Link (with Submission Links towards the bottom of the page). All are welcome to submit a ranking.

Having seen the media polls and Quint's Top 20, I might edge a little bit out on a limb and say Quint's poll will match up closer to what the Committee may be seeing/thinking since he clearly has an "eye test" but is also pretty aware of RPI and SOS. (His top 20 is below.).

Consider Yale (full disclosure: my #1 rooting interest) vs. Delaware (I like colorful hens! nothing against the First State). Yale is #8 in RPI, 7-4, with losses to 3 RPI top 10 teams (Penn State, Cornell, Penn) and 1 RPI top 20 team (Princeton), and wins over 3 RPI top 20 teams (Denver, Villanova, Boston U). Delaware is 10 - 3. Ten wins, pretty snazzy! Yet they are all against teams below 35 RPI: wins vs. RPIs in the 30s (2); wins vs. RPIs in the 40s (2); wins vs. RPIs in the 50s (4); wins vs. RPIs in the 60s (1); wins vs. RPIs in the 70s (!) (1). No bad losses for Delaware (to Hop #4 RPI; 'Nova #12 RPI; Michigan #19 RPI) but the lack of any top 35 RPI wins is striking.

Quint has Yale at 10 vs 17 in USA Lax Magazine's poll and 16 in Inside Lacrosse's poll.

With all that said, if Yale loses to Harvard their RPI will take a hit and I think they'll probably be bubble out for the NCAA tournament in addition to being on the outside looking in for the Ivy League tournament. And the bracketologists also believe that Delaware's road to the NCAA tournament is via the AQ. But I still find the difference interesting.

Quint's Top 20: https://laxallstars.com/quint-kessenich ... l-24-2023/

1. ND
2. Duke
3. UVA
4. Penn State
5. Hopkins
6. Cornell
7. Maryland
8. Georgetown
9. Army
10. Yale, #8 RPI (#17 USALax, #16 Inside Lacrosse)
11. Penn
12. Denver
13. Villanova
14. Rutgers
15. Syracuse
16. UNC
17. Utah
18. Michigan
19. Delaware, #24 RPI (#14 USALax, #13 Inside Lacrosse)
20. Princeton

Looks like DrunkMonkey voted for Duke twice; I imagine one of those was intended to be PSU, who he left off of his poll.

If I had to guess, fix that error and Penn State might slot above Cornell, where, IMO, they belong.