The Independent State Legislature Doctrine

[Bandito]

Christine Ford is still getting death threats. But she’s getting thank-you notes too.

Thank you notes. Maybe she'll end up in Congress?

Her effect on the midterms will be interesting. Things look bleak in California for the GOP, her home state, but as they say "you gots to play the games"...

25 days, Three Hours and Seventeen Minutes form this post...

..

Kavanaugh death threats are real:

https://www.wnd.com/2018/10/teacher-tie ... eat-quits/

[admin]

Per a request, I moved this SCOTUS thread from Hamsterdam's Politics to Politics and moved the posts with profanity back to the Hamsterdam's Politics thread. If you want the R version of this thread, go to Hamsterdam.

[MDlaxfan76]

Per a request, I moved this SCOTUS thread from Hamsterdam's Politics to Politics and moved the posts with profanity back to the Hamsterdam's Politics thread. If you want the R version of this thread, go to Hamsterdam.

Thank you.

Let's try and make this a thread with substantive, rationally-based discussion and keep the insults to a minimum.

[runrussellrun]

you ramble wildly all over the place.

Are you suggesting that because honor killings and vaginal mutilation and other brutal acts of suppression are common in some parts of N. Africa and the Middle East are practiced by some Muslims we should label all of Islam, much less Islam as practiced in the US, with those practices? You do realize that some of those same practices happen with some of the Christian communities in N. Africa too, right? It's an awful cultural phenomenon that we could all agree is incredibly backward and should be opposed. But it's not specifically nor universally Islamic.

That reality is not at all in conflict with #METOO, it's just a far more extreme example of how men can and will be brutal with women, using religion, the powers of government, etc to justify and enforce.

Of course, if you're simply saying that those practices and that culture is much worse than here in America, we quite agree.

I can't help it you don't follow along and put the pieces to the forest for the trees together(and I am NOT fatty)

Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. City of Hialeah
Decision
Cites
508 U.S. 520

Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. City of Hialeah (No. 91-948)

Argued: Nov. 4, 1992

_____________________

https://bangordailynews.com/2018/07/19/ ... -in-maine/

______________________________________

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/cases ... igion.html


Are you arguing that some gun owners use them to do harm, we should label all gun owner..................

And if you think forcing woman to wear burkas in the US isn't symbiotic, or saying that the aforementioned crimes only occur in regions of the world other than the US. Man, what head and what pile of sand , b/c I want some of that ignorance pie.

[admin]

To help define "insults", "I disagree" is not an insult. "You're wrong" is not an insult. "You're an idiot", insult. Focus on the issue, not the IQ of the people within the thread. We're not going to go bananas because someone says, "Holy crow, you're driving me crazy! You're impossible!" etc. But that's a far cry from "You're just a typical liberal racist." etc. We all know the difference. And if you don't, this is not a testing ground to learn the difference. Let up too many goals, for the ebenfit of the team, you'll be on the bench.

And, at the risk of being repetitive, keep the profanity (and insults) in Hamsterdam.

[admin]

you ramble wildly all over the place. Are you suggesting that because honor killings ...

Good example. This is fine and we all ( I hope) know it is.

[Typical Lax Dad]

you ramble wildly all over the place.

Are you suggesting that because honor killings and vaginal mutilation and other brutal acts of suppression are common in some parts of N. Africa and the Middle East are practiced by some Muslims we should label all of Islam, much less Islam as practiced in the US, with those practices? You do realize that some of those same practices happen with some of the Christian communities in N. Africa too, right? It's an awful cultural phenomenon that we could all agree is incredibly backward and should be opposed. But it's not specifically nor universally Islamic.

That reality is not at all in conflict with #METOO, it's just a far more extreme example of how men can and will be brutal with women, using religion, the powers of government, etc to justify and enforce.

Of course, if you're simply saying that those practices and that culture is much worse than here in America, we quite agree.

I can't help it you don't follow along and put the pieces to the forest for the trees together(and I am NOT fatty)

Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. City of Hialeah
Decision
Cites
508 U.S. 520

Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. City of Hialeah (No. 91-948)

Argued: Nov. 4, 1992

_____________________

https://bangordailynews.com/2018/07/19/ ... -in-maine/

______________________________________

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/cases ... igion.html


Are you arguing that some gun owners use them to do harm, we should label all gun owner..................

And if you think forcing woman to wear burkas in the US isn't symbiotic, or saying that the aforementioned crimes only occur in regions of the world other than the US. Man, what head and what pile of sand , b/c I want some of that ignorance pie.

Don't know if you saw this:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/11/health/m ... ve-ruling/

[runrussellrun]

Yup, totally aware of this Obama appointed Judge. Been saying (completely ignored by the pretends) for years that Monsanto was deeply entrenched in his administration. Why have juries, if a judge can do what they want? Meanwhile, we protest about plastic water bottles and which bathroom to urinate in.

Also, perhaps MrJohnson should have gone to college and gotten a job teaching feminism at Duke or Harvard, instead of killing the environment with roundup. What the heck is wrong with "weeds" anyway?
Roundup should be banned, but could have sworn the Supremes ruled that patented soybeans....oh never mind.

[MDlaxfan76]

you ramble wildly all over the place.

Are you suggesting that because honor killings and vaginal mutilation and other brutal acts of suppression are common in some parts of N. Africa and the Middle East are practiced by some Muslims we should label all of Islam, much less Islam as practiced in the US, with those practices? You do realize that some of those same practices happen with some of the Christian communities in N. Africa too, right? It's an awful cultural phenomenon that we could all agree is incredibly backward and should be opposed. But it's not specifically nor universally Islamic.

That reality is not at all in conflict with #METOO, it's just a far more extreme example of how men can and will be brutal with women, using religion, the powers of government, etc to justify and enforce.

Of course, if you're simply saying that those practices and that culture is much worse than here in America, we quite agree.

I can't help it you don't follow along and put the pieces to the forest for the trees together(and I am NOT fatty)

Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. City of Hialeah
Decision
Cites
508 U.S. 520

Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye, Inc. v. City of Hialeah (No. 91-948)

Argued: Nov. 4, 1992

_____________________

https://bangordailynews.com/2018/07/19/ ... -in-maine/

______________________________________

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/cases ... igion.html


Are you arguing that some gun owners use them to do harm, we should label all gun owner..................

And if you think forcing woman to wear burkas in the US isn't symbiotic, or saying that the aforementioned crimes only occur in regions of the world other than the US. Man, what head and what pile of sand , b/c I want some of that ignorance pie.

hmmm, that's exactly what Fatty said. Along with TAATS. And the misspellings.

Yes, you should simply bother to slow down and make the connections and points more clear. I'm surely not the only one who has great difficulty tracking your logic. You often have a point to make, but you make it so obtusely that it confuses more than enlightens. You can do better.

As to whatever those links were supposed to suggest, much less the "forcing woman to wear burkas in the US", I don't know what far right feed of nonsense you get but instances of anything remotely akin to practices in those regions are extremely rare in US Islam. If it ever happens, you can be assured that it's not sanctioned by any of the prominent sects, imams, mosques here in the US and is simply something a particular family has brought with them.

And obviously we should reject such practices, anywhere, anytime.

But rejecting is a far cry from conflating those practices with Islam more generally, much less here in the US. Again, the same practices happen in those regions with Christians. It's cultural, not religious. That said, yes, often evil is cloaked in religious clothes, as has been the case throughout history in every religion of note.

This happens to be an area that I know quite a lot about having spent nearly 20 years in dialogue with Jews and Muslims and Christians as a trustee of what is arguably the most influential such group in the US. Certainly the most influential with clergy and scholars. Unlike some 'dialogue' groups we don't do a lot of kumbaya, 'we all agree', efforts but rather we focus on where we have historically disagreed about our understanding of God and explore how that has resulted in great strife and what I'd call "evil". Very scholarly effort, but with lots of direct exposure to others who have followed different religious paths. Respect, appreciation, and friendships built on the trust that occurs when people really share. https://icjs.org/about-us/mission-statement

As a result of that institutional involvement, I'm quite familiar with the actual statistics on religious practices and intolerance here in the US and internationally. Painfully, the levels of mis-information and intolerance are extremely high at present, with a significant spike in hate groups and propaganda from same. My admonition (to anyone) is to not believe the hate propaganda and to get to know the Other yourself.

[runrussellrun]

Now you got me all angered up TLD.

The Supreme Court ruled, unanimously, Iin favor for Monsanto. TAATS and all that. Stupid fly over farmers. Anyone from Monsanto work in the Obama white house. don't care either

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/1 ... 6_c07d.pdf

[runrussellrun]

As a result of that institutional involvement, I'm quite familiar with the actual statistics on religious practices and intolerance here in the US and internationally. Painfully, the levels of mis-information and intolerance are extremely high at present, with a significant spike in hate groups and propaganda from same. My admonition (to anyone) is to not believe the hate propaganda and to get to know the Other yourself.

Where is the tolerance for people like me ? Atheists? Criminy, even insurance policies include legal language about "acts of God". Supremes ever heard a case discussing the existence of said god, which one, and why the heck god blew over that tree on my Porsche? Bacchaus sure is naughty

ONce testifying in court, I refused to "swear to god" when taking an oath. Judge warned that I would be held in contempt. What the heck. Forest for trees. You can NOT start a new religion in the US, at least not one that the IRS will allow.

[MDlaxfan76]

TLD, were you 'trolling' him, just wanted to get him all riled up.
Love the "all angered up" phrase. Very descriptive.

Good to see the discussion get back to SCOTUS and legal matters more generally.

So...does Round-Up cause cancer or not?
Did the plaintiff's counsel show malice or not?

I tend to be highly suspicious, and think we all should be, of claims of decades of research showing no causal relationship...we've seen that many times before only to find that the company(s) knew all along the damage they were doing. Both causation and malice eventually proven. And when they are, IMO, folks should be strung up.

Where are we right now on this?

I'm not sure what the heck Obama's appointment of a judge who rules in favor of a corporate defendant in a case is supposed to imply, but surely it's not political bias that would be expected from some left-leaning jurist. Might well suggest that there were some actual flaws in the case presented and the jury overreacted (in her judicial opinion).

[MDlaxfan76]

As a result of that institutional involvement, I'm quite familiar with the actual statistics on religious practices and intolerance here in the US and internationally. Painfully, the levels of mis-information and intolerance are extremely high at present, with a significant spike in hate groups and propaganda from same. My admonition (to anyone) is to not believe the hate propaganda and to get to know the Other yourself.

Where is the tolerance for people like me ? Atheists? Criminy, even insurance policies include legal language about "acts of God". Supremes ever heard a case discussing the existence of said god, which one, and why the heck god blew over that tree on my Porsche? Bacchaus sure is naughty

ONce testifying in court, I refused to "swear to god" when taking an oath. Judge warned that I would be held in contempt. What the heck. Forest for trees. You can NOT start a new religion in the US, at least not one that the IRS will allow.

I quite agree, atheists deserve 'tolerance' too.
That said, I'd have to know a lot more to get hot and bothered that atheists have a tough time of it, though.
Not too many crosses being burned on atheists' lawns, swastikas on places of worship, mosques, synagogues, churches burned down, blown up etc.
Not so sure anyone's refusing to serve you or asks you what you think of 9-11 because you're an atheist.

But, hey, I may not be adequately aware of the plight of the atheist in Trump's America. I can definitely imagine having some issues with neighbors in parts of the fundamentalist Bible Belt as an avowed and outspoken atheist, so it's certainly possible. But I haven't heard much about that...

On the oath in court, pretty sure you were not only in the right, but it's long been adjudicated that one can take an oath in court or in a swearing in ceremony without any religious reference, if you so choose. I'm not even so sure that in most courts today the default isn't already non-religious.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Now you got me all angered up TLD.

The Supreme Court ruled, unanimously, Iin favor for Monsanto. TAATS and all that. Stupid fly over farmers. Anyone from Monsanto work in the Obama white house. don't care either

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/1 ... 6_c07d.pdf

I can’t say I am surprised. I didn’t know how the case was resolved. I mentioned my brother in law worked for Mansonto. One of his best friends has already died and they are keeping track of the number of former Monsanto workers that have been diagnosed with cancer.

[HooDat]

I don't understand the anger emanating from both fringe right and fringe left.

Both sides think the other is trying to extinguish their way of life. Ask them. They'll tell you that's exactly what's going on....both "sides" are scared, and a divided media is stoking those fears because that's how they get paid.

What's worse, is that both fringes believe that's "us vs. them". In other words, they don't understand that they are are, at most, 20% of the population on the far right, 20% on the far left, with millions of people in the middle. If you listen to FoxNews or MSNBC, you get the sense that there's no middle....only left/right. Us/them.

It's absurd, of course, but here we are. That's why they are so scared----they are convinced that the whole world is against them.

ding, ding, ding!!

[seacoaster]

I don't disagree with much of that a fan. So, then, what explains the fact that the 40% in the so-called middle aren't running the Good Ship 'Merica?

[HooDat]

the fact that they can't add to 100?

but you ask a good question. My take is that the extremes make their living being in the extremes. They work harder at it. The folks in the middle are busy living their lives.

[jhu72]

TLD, were you 'trolling' him, just wanted to get him all riled up.
Love the "all angered up" phrase. Very descriptive.

Good to see the discussion get back to SCOTUS and legal matters more generally.

So...does Round-Up cause cancer or not?
Did the plaintiff's counsel show malice or not?

I tend to be highly suspicious, and think we all should be, of claims of decades of research showing no causal relationship...we've seen that many times before only to find that the company(s) knew all along the damage they were doing. Both causation and malice eventually proven. And when they are, IMO, folks should be strung up.

Where are we right now on this?

I'm not sure what the heck Obama's appointment of a judge who rules in favor of a corporate defendant in a case is supposed to imply, but surely it's not political bias that would be expected from some left-leaning jurist. Might well suggest that there were some actual flaws in the case presented and the jury overreacted (in her judicial opinion).

Some studies show a low level coorelation, some studies show no coorelation. My conclusion, its a hell of a lot safer than some other herbicides. No where near the risk of asbestos. Net-net, if you follow instructions you will be fine as a homeowner. Professional gardener/lawn/etc. maintenance personnel should probably be more concerned but I bet they are less worried about glyphosate than they are most other chemicals.

The real problem with Monsanto is their licensing T&Cs, IMO.

[jhu72]

As a result of that institutional involvement, I'm quite familiar with the actual statistics on religious practices and intolerance here in the US and internationally. Painfully, the levels of mis-information and intolerance are extremely high at present, with a significant spike in hate groups and propaganda from same. My admonition (to anyone) is to not believe the hate propaganda and to get to know the Other yourself.

Where is the tolerance for people like me ? Atheists? Criminy, even insurance policies include legal language about "acts of God". Supremes ever heard a case discussing the existence of said god, which one, and why the heck god blew over that tree on my Porsche? Bacchaus sure is naughty

ONce testifying in court, I refused to "swear to god" when taking an oath. Judge warned that I would be held in contempt. What the heck. Forest for trees. You can NOT start a new religion in the US, at least not one that the IRS will allow.

I quite agree, atheists deserve 'tolerance' too.
That said, I'd have to know a lot more to get hot and bothered that atheists have a tough time of it, though.
Not too many crosses being burned on atheists' lawns, swastikas on places of worship, mosques, synagogues, churches burned down, blown up etc.
Not so sure anyone's refusing to serve you or asks you what you think of 9-11 because you're an atheist.

But, hey, I may not be adequately aware of the plight of the atheist in Trump's America. I can definitely imagine having some issues with neighbors in parts of the fundamentalist Bible Belt as an avowed and outspoken atheist, so it's certainly possible. But I haven't heard much about that...

On the oath in court, pretty sure you were not only in the right, but it's long been adjudicated that one can take an oath in court or in a swearing in ceremony without any religious reference, if you so choose. I'm not even so sure that in most courts today the default isn't already non-religious.

I am an atheist as well. Don't hide it, but don't go out of my way to advertise it either. I have never felt discriminated against based on my non-religion. Can't ever remember as an adult someone trying to coerce me into not following my belief. Sure, you get some strange looks from little old church ladies sometimes, but hey, fair is fair, I give little old church ladies a strange look too sometimes. Saying that there are certainly issues, but I suspect for most they are at the margins. If you go looking for issues, you will find them. There is an upside to being an atheist, every deeply religious person you meet prays for your soul.

[a fan]

I don't disagree with much of that a fan. So, then, what explains the fact that the 40% in the so-called middle aren't running the Good Ship 'Merica?

Simple. The vast, vast majority of those in the middle don't vote. Simple. Surely you know more than a few people that don't follow politics? The most common reason that they don't, is that they are indifferent to the left or right, and are generally ok with how things are going.