2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[MDlaxfan76]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Salty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.

Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...

You Sir, are a LIAR. I said no such thing. You are projecting again. I' will be pleased if there are 17 (R) votes to convict & Trump is barred from holding office again. If that could not be established before he was impeached again, then doing so is just political theater & I agree with others that it will prolong Trump's time in the spotlight & tighten his death grip on the GOP.

I agree that what Trump did between Nov 3 & Jan 6 is impeachable, but impeachment without conviction is a futile gesture & political theater.
If a case can be made that Trump incited an insurrection, then prosecute him criminally. I doubt that a Biden DoJ would stand in the way if there was a solid case & a reasonable chance for conviction.

Unlike you, I want the GOP to survive. I am not hoping that the GOP dies exorcising itself of Trump. I want the cancer cut out, or at least in remission, while the patient survives.

Trump's malfeasance while in office does not excuse the actions of the Deep State cabal who abused the powers of their offices by conducting a seditious insurrection from within the government to subvert Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency. The ends did not justify the means. Trump finished his term & look at the carnage left behind from the resulting counter insurgency. Trump outlasted them, accomplished much of what he promised, got more votes than any candidate in history other than Biden, & retains a huge base of supporters who view him as being unjustly wronged.

Thank you for clarifying, but "you Sir are a LIAR".

I've repeatedly said that I want the GOP to survive, but that it can only do so by cutting out the cancer of Trumpism. I don't want "remission" as that will only allow resurgence of Trumpism and a total loss of any possibility of moral authority by any of those complicit.

And that includes ANY and ALL who argue that it is mere "political theater" to impeach a President and prosecute a now former President who attempted to hold onto power after losing an election badly while claiming a landslide and massive fraud by inciting a violent insurrection against our democracy.

Any Senator who does not vote for conviction and barring from future office will forever bear the shame of not doing so. No mealy mouthed excuses are acceptable.

That's the Senate's duty and each Senator took an oath.

Now, if you're arguing that Trump should ALSO face criminal prosecution, I agree.

But hey, I also don't really believe you that you want Trump convicted the way you would if he was a Dem...and I also don't believe any of your Q fevered BS about the Deep State. There was no "counter insurgency", there was political 'resistance' to the authoritarian perversion of democracy but the adoption of "insurgency" as a descriptor in light of an actual violent insurgency is gross and again so revealing.

The GOP would not survive your purity ritual. I'm with Mitch. I want the GOP to survive. If it can be done without Trump, or with him marginalized, that would be great. If Trump is convicted by the Senate or criminally convicted of anything, I will be delighted. The GOP would be rid of him. But don't go after him unless you can finish him. It will just make him stronger if it fails. ...I hate to see statesmen like Corker, Portman & Paul Ryan driven from the party....FTR, i was pointing out the deep state insurrection from within before Q existed. Flynn was the appetizer, Trump was the entree.

Yup, before the Q phenomenon blew up you were already spouting conspiracy theories. Precursor to QAnon.

I quite disagree that Trump will grow 'stronger' as the trial forces Senators to confront how bad this really was and then have to vote on conviction or acquittal. I don't see Trump's approval going up at all, the more that is revealed, the more he will be diminished forever. He's a pariah now with corporate America and he's a pariah for the media giants and he's a pariah for the finance community...and the prosecutors are on the march for his prior criminal acts, and you can be sure that future operations will be closely scrutinized.

Yes, those who vote for acquittal will be forever marked by it, and those who vote for conviction will be forever recognized for their doing the right thing.

The best solution for the GOP is indeed Mitch and the Senators standing up and convicting him. I do think Mitch can finesse this so that some Senators who are at extreme risk of being primaried, and where the Dems would likely win against a rabid Trumpist can avoid the vote or give their mealy mouthed excuse for acquittal, but he needs to put the Trump dog down hard.

Otherwise the party really is doomed.

[njbill]

To the extent the trial in the Senate could be characterized as political theater, that is entirely the fault of Republican senators who won’t vote to convict. It should be a serious trial which results in convention. That it may not, is due to certain Republicans ignoring (in my view) their constitutional duty. But then that is no surprise as many of them ignored another constitutional duty on January 6.

The House did the right thing. That the Ted Cruzes and Josh Hawleys of the world want to turn the trial into a theater is the wrong thing.

If what T**** did isn’t an impeachable act, then nothing is. Then the constitution’s impeachment provisions are a nullity. But the founders put them in for a reason. This is the reason. I suspect they would be aghast at what their descendants apparently are going to do.

[cradleandshoot]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Salty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.

Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...

You Sir, are a LIAR. I said no such thing. You are projecting again. I' will be pleased if there are 17 (R) votes to convict & Trump is barred from holding office again. If that could not be established before he was impeached again, then doing so is just political theater & I agree with others that it will prolong Trump's time in the spotlight & tighten his death grip on the GOP.

I agree that what Trump did between Nov 3 & Jan 6 is impeachable, but impeachment without conviction is a futile gesture & political theater.
If a case can be made that Trump incited an insurrection, then prosecute him criminally. I doubt that a Biden DoJ would stand in the way if there was a solid case & a reasonable chance for conviction.

Unlike you, I want the GOP to survive. I am not hoping that the GOP dies exorcising itself of Trump. I want the cancer cut out, or at least in remission, while the patient survives.

Trump's malfeasance while in office does not excuse the actions of the Deep State cabal who abused the powers of their offices by conducting a seditious insurrection from within the government to subvert Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency. The ends did not justify the means. Trump finished his term & look at the carnage left behind from the resulting counter insurgency. Trump outlasted them, accomplished much of what he promised, got more votes than any candidate in history other than Biden, & retains a huge base of supporters who view him as being unjustly wronged....& we're still stuck with him as the GOP kingmaker.

Serious question, if you cut the cancer out of the GOP what's left? We've got state GOP leaders in AZ and OR censuring Republicans who didn't stand behind Trump post election. Does this make the likes of Cruz and Hawley heroes in the party? Do you not see that as a problem for the GOP?

On the Friday, January 8, two days after the attack on the Capital, the R.N.C. endorsed President Trump as the man to lead the party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/p ... ittee.html

How does the GOP survive Old Salt? And what does it look like?

I'm not sure the GOP survives the 'Old Salt's', much less Trump.

Not unless the Senate convicts Trump and stands with the Ducey's and Kemp's and Raffensperger's...otherwise it's going to take a darn long time before the stain of Trumpism washes out...Trump and all its worst elements will persist, unchallengeable as long as Trump is the driver.

As it is, there's going to be a rough period, given that the 'tumor' is so large and has so many tentacles, metastasized in so many ways. But GOP will die if it does get started with tough therapy soon.

Or the Republican party will devolve into marshmallow fluffernutter land on soft squishy white wonder bread. That is MDs vision of what the republican party should look like. They won't win any elections but their concession speeches will be outstanding to say the least.

[MDlaxfan76]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Salty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.

Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...

You Sir, are a LIAR. I said no such thing. You are projecting again. I' will be pleased if there are 17 (R) votes to convict & Trump is barred from holding office again. If that could not be established before he was impeached again, then doing so is just political theater & I agree with others that it will prolong Trump's time in the spotlight & tighten his death grip on the GOP.

I agree that what Trump did between Nov 3 & Jan 6 is impeachable, but impeachment without conviction is a futile gesture & political theater.
If a case can be made that Trump incited an insurrection, then prosecute him criminally. I doubt that a Biden DoJ would stand in the way if there was a solid case & a reasonable chance for conviction.

Unlike you, I want the GOP to survive. I am not hoping that the GOP dies exorcising itself of Trump. I want the cancer cut out, or at least in remission, while the patient survives.

Trump's malfeasance while in office does not excuse the actions of the Deep State cabal who abused the powers of their offices by conducting a seditious insurrection from within the government to subvert Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency. The ends did not justify the means. Trump finished his term & look at the carnage left behind from the resulting counter insurgency. Trump outlasted them, accomplished much of what he promised, got more votes than any candidate in history other than Biden, & retains a huge base of supporters who view him as being unjustly wronged....& we're still stuck with him as the GOP kingmaker.

Serious question, if you cut the cancer out of the GOP what's left? We've got state GOP leaders in AZ and OR censuring Republicans who didn't stand behind Trump post election. Does this make the likes of Cruz and Hawley heroes in the party? Do you not see that as a problem for the GOP?

On the Friday, January 8, two days after the attack on the Capital, the R.N.C. endorsed President Trump as the man to lead the party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/p ... ittee.html

How does the GOP survive Old Salt? And what does it look like?

I'm not sure the GOP survives the 'Old Salt's', much less Trump.

Not unless the Senate convicts Trump and stands with the Ducey's and Kemp's and Raffensperger's...otherwise it's going to take a darn long time before the stain of Trumpism washes out...Trump and all its worst elements will persist, unchallengeable as long as Trump is the driver.

As it is, there's going to be a rough period, given that the 'tumor' is so large and has so many tentacles, metastasized in so many ways. But GOP will die if it does get started with tough therapy soon.

Or the Republican party will devolve into marshmallow fluffernutter land on soft squishy white wonder bread. That is MDs vision of what the republican party should look like. They won't win any elections but their concession speeches will be outstanding to say the least.

You keep repeating this nonsense...and I keep replying...the GOP has won an awful lot of elections, nationally and locally, in my lifetime without Trumpism.

Run the best candidates, align the conservative policy positions best appealing to a majority of Americans, and conservatives can and do win. Of course, sometimes the other side runs a better candidate, aligns their policy positions to be more appealing...that's the way it works. Neither side wins them all.

[MDlaxfan76]

To the extent the trial in the Senate could be characterized as political theater, that is entirely the fault of Republican senators who won’t vote to convict. It should be a serious trial which results in convention. That it may not, is due to certain Republicans ignoring (in my view) their constitutional duty. But then that is no surprise as many of them ignored another constitutional duty on January 6.

The House did the right thing. That the Ted Cruzes and Josh Hawleys of the world want to turn the trial into a theater is the wrong thing.

If what T**** did isn’t an impeachable act, then nothing is. Then the constitution’s impeachment provisions are a nullity. But the founders put them in for a reason. This is the reason. I suspect they would be aghast at what their descendants apparently are going to do.

Indeed, it's an interesting thought experiment to imagine which, if any, of the Founders would have endorsed Jan 6 and the Big Lie that drove it. Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton, Adams...go down the list...who would be ok?

[old salt]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Salty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.

Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...

You Sir, are a LIAR. I said no such thing. You are projecting again. I' will be pleased if there are 17 (R) votes to convict & Trump is barred from holding office again. If that could not be established before he was impeached again, then doing so is just political theater & I agree with others that it will prolong Trump's time in the spotlight & tighten his death grip on the GOP.

I agree that what Trump did between Nov 3 & Jan 6 is impeachable, but impeachment without conviction is a futile gesture & political theater.
If a case can be made that Trump incited an insurrection, then prosecute him criminally. I doubt that a Biden DoJ would stand in the way if there was a solid case & a reasonable chance for conviction.

Unlike you, I want the GOP to survive. I am not hoping that the GOP dies exorcising itself of Trump. I want the cancer cut out, or at least in remission, while the patient survives.

Trump's malfeasance while in office does not excuse the actions of the Deep State cabal who abused the powers of their offices by conducting a seditious insurrection from within the government to subvert Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency. The ends did not justify the means. Trump finished his term & look at the carnage left behind from the resulting counter insurgency. Trump outlasted them, accomplished much of what he promised, got more votes than any candidate in history other than Biden, & retains a huge base of supporters who view him as being unjustly wronged....& we're still stuck with him as the GOP kingmaker.

Serious question, if you cut the cancer out of the GOP what's left? We've got state GOP leaders in AZ and OR censuring Republicans who didn't stand behind Trump post election. Does this make the likes of Cruz and Hawley heroes in the party? Do you not see that as a problem for the GOP?

On the Friday, January 8, two days after the attack on the Capital, the R.N.C. endorsed President Trump as the man to lead the party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/p ... ittee.html

How does the GOP survive Old Salt? And what does it look like?

I'm not sure the GOP survives the 'Old Salt's', much less Trump.

Not unless the Senate convicts Trump and stands with the Ducey's and Kemp's and Raffensperger's...otherwise it's going to take a darn long time before the stain of Trumpism washes out...Trump and all its worst elements will persist, unchallengeable as long as Trump is the driver.

As it is, there's going to be a rough period, given that the 'tumor' is so large and has so many tentacles, metastasized in so many ways. But GOP will die if it does get started with tough therapy soon.

Thanks for butting in MD & speaking on my behalf, as usual, but I'm happy to answer ToastDunk.

IMHO -- Halley, Cruz, Rubio & Hawley are probably the Trumpiest GOP Presidential front runners right now. That's why they're going after Hawley so hard. Crenshaw & future OH Senator Jim Jordan are future prospects. Pence can be rehabilitated. The GOP big tent can still encompass Mitch, Liz Cheney, Romney, Collins, Murkowski, & Toomey's PA successor, even if they vote to convict. They'd all survive a primary challenge & a vote to convict Trump might even help in blue state general elections. Murkowski's the only one up in '22 & she's a survivor.

Any (R) who endorses Trump's policies & is not a crazy person can still fit in the GOP & even lead or contend. All of the politicians I've named could tolerate each other & work together without Trump's divisive "leadership" as President or candidate.

[youthathletics]

Run the best candidates, align the conservative policy positions best appealing to a majority of Americans, and conservatives can and do win. Of course, sometimes the other side runs a better candidate, aligns their policy positions to be more appealing...that's the way it works. Neither side wins them all.

Trump knocked out 17 of them....goodness. Same thing can be said about the left.

[MDlaxfan76]

Run the best candidates, align the conservative policy positions best appealing to a majority of Americans, and conservatives can and do win. Of course, sometimes the other side runs a better candidate, aligns their policy positions to be more appealing...that's the way it works. Neither side wins them all.

Trump knocked out 17 of them....goodness. Same thing can be said about the left.

Not sure what you mean on the left (so far)...I don't recall anyone on the left, who's won, who's remotely Trump-like, flip side. The most 'radical' of any who's made it to the general in my lifetime was McGovern, and he really wasn't actually radical.

I think Trump's appeal was rather unique.

[MDlaxfan76]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Salty thinks its peachy keen that a President incited a violent insurrection after months of constantly lying and whining about having won an election in a landslide, stolen by nefarious forces in a massive election fraud that only impacted his own race.

Of course, if it was a Dem President doing so...

You Sir, are a LIAR. I said no such thing. You are projecting again. I' will be pleased if there are 17 (R) votes to convict & Trump is barred from holding office again. If that could not be established before he was impeached again, then doing so is just political theater & I agree with others that it will prolong Trump's time in the spotlight & tighten his death grip on the GOP.

I agree that what Trump did between Nov 3 & Jan 6 is impeachable, but impeachment without conviction is a futile gesture & political theater.
If a case can be made that Trump incited an insurrection, then prosecute him criminally. I doubt that a Biden DoJ would stand in the way if there was a solid case & a reasonable chance for conviction.

Unlike you, I want the GOP to survive. I am not hoping that the GOP dies exorcising itself of Trump. I want the cancer cut out, or at least in remission, while the patient survives.

Trump's malfeasance while in office does not excuse the actions of the Deep State cabal who abused the powers of their offices by conducting a seditious insurrection from within the government to subvert Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency. The ends did not justify the means. Trump finished his term & look at the carnage left behind from the resulting counter insurgency. Trump outlasted them, accomplished much of what he promised, got more votes than any candidate in history other than Biden, & retains a huge base of supporters who view him as being unjustly wronged....& we're still stuck with him as the GOP kingmaker.

Serious question, if you cut the cancer out of the GOP what's left? We've got state GOP leaders in AZ and OR censuring Republicans who didn't stand behind Trump post election. Does this make the likes of Cruz and Hawley heroes in the party? Do you not see that as a problem for the GOP?

On the Friday, January 8, two days after the attack on the Capital, the R.N.C. endorsed President Trump as the man to lead the party.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/p ... ittee.html

How does the GOP survive Old Salt? And what does it look like?

I'm not sure the GOP survives the 'Old Salt's', much less Trump.

Not unless the Senate convicts Trump and stands with the Ducey's and Kemp's and Raffensperger's...otherwise it's going to take a darn long time before the stain of Trumpism washes out...Trump and all its worst elements will persist, unchallengeable as long as Trump is the driver.

As it is, there's going to be a rough period, given that the 'tumor' is so large and has so many tentacles, metastasized in so many ways. But GOP will die if it does get started with tough therapy soon.

Thanks for butting in MD & speaking on my behalf, as usual, but I'm happy to answer ToastDunk.

IMHO -- Halley, Cruz, Rubio & Hawley are probably the Trumpiest GOP Presidential front runners right now. That's why they're going after Hawley so hard. Crenshaw & future OH Senator Jim Jordan are future prospects. Pence can be rehabilitated. The GOP big tent can still encompass Mitch, Liz Cheney, Romney, Collins, Murkowski, & Toomey's PA successor, even if they vote to convict. They'd all survive a primary challenge & a vote to convict Trump might even help in blue state general elections. Murkowski's the only one up in '22 & she's a survivor.

Any (R) who endorses Trump's policies & is not a crazy person can still fit in the GOP & even lead or contend. All of the politicians I've named could tolerate each other & work together without Trump's divisive "leadership" as President or candidate.

Pretty sure I wasn't "speaking on (your) behalf" Salty, though I was making fun of you a bit. My more serious point, though poking fun, was that those who think like you do will kill the GOP's chances to ever regain any kind of positive moral stature as long as you put up with Trump toadies and enablers like those you listed as the top candidates, much less Jordon for god's sake.

ANY of these "Trumpiest" politicians who did not vote to impeach in the House or do not vote to convict from the Senate will never be redeemable as faithful to the oath they took, never will deserve higher office, higher responsibility, though they may retain their political positions for awhile. Same for Haley, who blew the lane she did have before she went all-in down the stretch for Trump.

If you're looking for a politician on the right, indeed well to the right, who has clean hands, I'd recommend looking at Ben Sasse.

But any of the Trumpy ones are dead meat. None can muster the Trump level appeal.

[youthathletics]

Run the best candidates, align the conservative policy positions best appealing to a majority of Americans, and conservatives can and do win. Of course, sometimes the other side runs a better candidate, aligns their policy positions to be more appealing...that's the way it works. Neither side wins them all.

Trump knocked out 17 of them....goodness. Same thing can be said about the left.

Not sure what you mean on the left (so far)...I don't recall anyone on the left, who's won, who's remotely Trump-like, flip side. The most 'radical' of any who's made it to the general in my lifetime was McGovern, and he really wasn't actually radical.

I think Trump's appeal was rather unique.

Sorry, my last point about the left, was about putting forth an appealing candidate...we can thank them for giving us Trump.

[foreverlax]

I understand the argument that since he is out of office, the trial is now moot. But I think that argument is outweighed by the necessity to lay down an historical marker that a president who incites an insurrection to overthrow an election should be impeached, convicted, and disqualified, whenever he commits those acts, even if in the very last days of his term.

No other single person has ever in our country’s history done anything more damaging to our system of government. The only other thing more damaging, which was not caused by one single person, was the Civil War.

C'mon bill. Aren't you ove-dramatizing this a bit.

In what respect? Historical marker or single worst person? If the later, name someone else who has done more damage to our system of government.

Comey, McCabe, Brennan & Steele

vs John Yoo, et. al.

[MDlaxfan76]

Run the best candidates, align the conservative policy positions best appealing to a majority of Americans, and conservatives can and do win. Of course, sometimes the other side runs a better candidate, aligns their policy positions to be more appealing...that's the way it works. Neither side wins them all.

Trump knocked out 17 of them....goodness. Same thing can be said about the left.

Not sure what you mean on the left (so far)...I don't recall anyone on the left, who's won, who's remotely Trump-like, flip side. The most 'radical' of any who's made it to the general in my lifetime was McGovern, and he really wasn't actually radical.

I think Trump's appeal was rather unique.

Sorry, my last point about the left, was about putting forth an appealing candidate...we can thank them for giving us Trump.

ahhh, I do agree that HRC was rather uniquely beatable (and the country was ready for a swing to the conservative side)...indeed, I thought any of the traditional R's on the stage might well have won the popular vote as well. We'll never know.

[cradleandshoot]

Run the best candidates, align the conservative policy positions best appealing to a majority of Americans, and conservatives can and do win. Of course, sometimes the other side runs a better candidate, aligns their policy positions to be more appealing...that's the way it works. Neither side wins them all.

Trump knocked out 17 of them....goodness. Same thing can be said about the left.

Not sure what you mean on the left (so far)...I don't recall anyone on the left, who's won, who's remotely Trump-like, flip side. The most 'radical' of any who's made it to the general in my lifetime was McGovern, and he really wasn't actually radical.

I think Trump's appeal was rather unique.

Sorry, my last point about the left, was about putting forth an appealing candidate...we can thank them for giving us Trump.

ahhh, I do agree that HRC was rather uniquely beatable (and the country was ready for a swing to the conservative side)...indeed, I thought any of the traditional R's on the stage might well have won the popular vote as well. We'll never know.

Yer missing the point there buckwheat. Once dump knew the queen of evil was the Democrat candidate he knew she was the only person running for the donkeys he knew he could beat. A classic case of the lesser of two evils. Emphasis on the word "evil"

[CU88]

Benghazi: •GOP: 33 hearings & investigations over 5 years.

Hillary's emails: •GOP: 20+ hearings & investigations over 5 years.

Trump's insurrection: *GOP: "Nah, we'll pass"

[MDlaxfan76]

Run the best candidates, align the conservative policy positions best appealing to a majority of Americans, and conservatives can and do win. Of course, sometimes the other side runs a better candidate, aligns their policy positions to be more appealing...that's the way it works. Neither side wins them all.

Trump knocked out 17 of them....goodness. Same thing can be said about the left.

Not sure what you mean on the left (so far)...I don't recall anyone on the left, who's won, who's remotely Trump-like, flip side. The most 'radical' of any who's made it to the general in my lifetime was McGovern, and he really wasn't actually radical.

I think Trump's appeal was rather unique.

Sorry, my last point about the left, was about putting forth an appealing candidate...we can thank them for giving us Trump.

ahhh, I do agree that HRC was rather uniquely beatable (and the country was ready for a swing to the conservative side)...indeed, I thought any of the traditional R's on the stage might well have won the popular vote as well. We'll never know.

Yer missing the point there buckwheat. Once dump knew the queen of evil was the Democrat candidate he knew she was the only person running for the donkeys he knew he could beat. A classic case of the lesser of two evils. Emphasis on the word "evil"

Still don't know the meaning of 'buckwheat' in this context...I'd prefer you not add it.

I don't know that Trump ever thought he could actually win, lots of reporting is that his objective was to define a far right, populist image as the basis for a media play to the right of Fox. His real estate empire was under significant financial pressure given the unwillingness of lenders to lend and his prior media play having run its course, he was looking for a new revenue stream.

He had earlier stumbled into the birtherism falsehood and saw the traction that gave him and revamped his entire political persona from lifelong Democrat to populist, dog-whistle, conspiracy monger. Truth did not matter. And America was ready for that in ways most of us did not anticipate. white Christian fear and resentment was far more ready to explode than we wanted to believe in a world in which a black man could and was elected POTUS twice. This is a pan-national movement and the American strain Trump tapped into, while deep rooted racist and anti-Other, most of us thought was merely fringe...it's not, it's far more widespread and virulent than we thought.

Salty has pointed out, correctly, that there was also a latent isolationist piece of the far right that sounded reasonable to many who were disenchanted with the stubborn intractability of the Middle East. so, Trump falsely claimed that he'd always been against our actions in the ME, making up out of whole cloth his objecting to the Iraq invasion. No different than his pretending he hadn't been pro-choice all his life, holding up a bible to appease white Christian fundamentalists. Truth did not matter.

And with all that, Trump opened up a unique lane in the primaries. Truth did not matter.

But did he expect to actually succeed in winning the primaries, much less the general? I doubt it...he didn't need to be able to create Trump TV as the far right "populist" media voice, conspiracies being the stock in trade...

But yeah, HRC was uniquely beatable.

[dislaxxic]

Benghazi: •GOP: 33 hearings & investigations over 5 years.

Hillary's emails: •GOP: 20+ hearings & investigations over 5 years.

Trump's insurrection: *GOP: "Nah, we'll pass"

Add the Merrick Garland SCOTUS atrocity and any number of the actions of Moscow Mitch and his Senate accomplices over the past decade and the result is that if the Dems DON'T nuke the filibuster, or at least neuter it, i'm just DONE with them. Enough is enough. The risk of future GOP depredations concerning the lack of a filibuster can't be a whole lot worse than what they've been doing these past several decades...

..

[MDlaxfan76]

Benghazi: •GOP: 33 hearings & investigations over 5 years.

Hillary's emails: •GOP: 20+ hearings & investigations over 5 years.

Trump's insurrection: *GOP: "Nah, we'll pass"

Add the Merrick Garland SCOTUS atrocity and any number of the actions of Moscow Mitch and his Senate accomplices over the past decade and the result is that if the Dems DON'T nuke the filibuster, or at least neuter it, i'm just DONE with them. Enough is enough. The risk of future GOP depredations concerning the lack of a filibuster can't be a whole lot worse than what they've been doing these past several decades...

..

Where you going if not Dems?

I do think we'll see some maneuvering to force through legislation, but without formally abandoning filibuster...under the assumption that the GOP doesn't agree to most of these initial priorities set by Biden as critical under the crisis conditions defined.

That said, I think the instinct of Biden, Manchin and some others to try to preserve at least an invitation to the other party to reach bi-partisan compromise getting to 60+ is the right one politically.

But patience will be limited, too much water under the bridge with McConnell, most of the priorities demand swift action, and the Dems are going to be livid if the Impeachment doesn't result in conviction or very close. The latter starkly clarifying the faithlessness of the other side. Gonna be a lot of "Time's up" pressure.

If that happens, I think Biden would nevertheless be wise to keep the door open and repeatedly invite bi-partisan support for key measures, be willing to negotiate on the edges. But the # 1 political objective will need to be that government actually takes action and then delivers on it effectively. So, patience limited.

[cradleandshoot]

Run the best candidates, align the conservative policy positions best appealing to a majority of Americans, and conservatives can and do win. Of course, sometimes the other side runs a better candidate, aligns their policy positions to be more appealing...that's the way it works. Neither side wins them all.

Trump knocked out 17 of them....goodness. Same thing can be said about the left.

Not sure what you mean on the left (so far)...I don't recall anyone on the left, who's won, who's remotely Trump-like, flip side. The most 'radical' of any who's made it to the general in my lifetime was McGovern, and he really wasn't actually radical.

I think Trump's appeal was rather unique.

Sorry, my last point about the left, was about putting forth an appealing candidate...we can thank them for giving us Trump.

ahhh, I do agree that HRC was rather uniquely beatable (and the country was ready for a swing to the conservative side)...indeed, I thought any of the traditional R's on the stage might well have won the popular vote as well. We'll never know.

Yer missing the point there buckwheat. Once dump knew the queen of evil was the Democrat candidate he knew she was the only person running for the donkeys he knew he could beat. A classic case of the lesser of two evils. Emphasis on the word "evil"

Still don't know the meaning of 'buckwheat' in this context...I'd prefer you not add it.

I don't know that Trump ever thought he could actually win, lots of reporting is that his objective was to define a far right, populist image as the basis for a media play to the right of Fox. His real estate empire was under significant financial pressure given the unwillingness of lenders to lend and his prior media play having run its course, he was looking for a new revenue stream.

He had earlier stumbled into the birtherism falsehood and saw the traction that gave him and revamped his entire political persona from lifelong Democrat to populist, dog-whistle, conspiracy monger. Truth did not matter. And America was ready for that in ways most of us did not anticipate. white Christian fear and resentment was far more ready to explode than we wanted to believe in a world in which a black man could and was elected POTUS twice. This is a pan-national movement and the American strain Trump tapped into, while deep rooted racist and anti-Other, most of us thought was merely fringe...it's not, it's far more widespread and virulent than we thought.

Salty has pointed out, correctly, that there was also a latent isolationist piece of the far right that sounded reasonable to many who were disenchanted with the stubborn intractability of the Middle East. so, Trump falsely claimed that he'd always been against our actions in the ME, making up out of whole cloth his objecting to the Iraq invasion. No different than his pretending he hadn't been pro-choice all his life, holding up a bible to appease white Christian fundamentalists. Truth did not matter.

And with all that, Trump opened up a unique lane in the primaries. Truth did not matter.

But did he expect to actually succeed in winning the primaries, much less the general? I doubt it...he didn't need to be able to create Trump TV as the far right "populist" media voice, conspiracies being the stock in trade...

But yeah, HRC was uniquely beatable.

Buckwheat was an expression my grandfather use to use. It had NOTHING to do with the black kid on the little rascals if that is where you were going with your thought process that I was being racially insensitive. The one thing I am 100% certain of is that the queen of evil running for POTUS was the deciding factor as to why dump decided to run. The queen of evil running for POTUS is the only reason that dump won.

[MDlaxfan76]

Run the best candidates, align the conservative policy positions best appealing to a majority of Americans, and conservatives can and do win. Of course, sometimes the other side runs a better candidate, aligns their policy positions to be more appealing...that's the way it works. Neither side wins them all.

Trump knocked out 17 of them....goodness. Same thing can be said about the left.

Not sure what you mean on the left (so far)...I don't recall anyone on the left, who's won, who's remotely Trump-like, flip side. The most 'radical' of any who's made it to the general in my lifetime was McGovern, and he really wasn't actually radical.

I think Trump's appeal was rather unique.

Sorry, my last point about the left, was about putting forth an appealing candidate...we can thank them for giving us Trump.

ahhh, I do agree that HRC was rather uniquely beatable (and the country was ready for a swing to the conservative side)...indeed, I thought any of the traditional R's on the stage might well have won the popular vote as well. We'll never know.

Yer missing the point there buckwheat. Once dump knew the queen of evil was the Democrat candidate he knew she was the only person running for the donkeys he knew he could beat. A classic case of the lesser of two evils. Emphasis on the word "evil"

Still don't know the meaning of 'buckwheat' in this context...I'd prefer you not add it.

I don't know that Trump ever thought he could actually win, lots of reporting is that his objective was to define a far right, populist image as the basis for a media play to the right of Fox. His real estate empire was under significant financial pressure given the unwillingness of lenders to lend and his prior media play having run its course, he was looking for a new revenue stream.

He had earlier stumbled into the birtherism falsehood and saw the traction that gave him and revamped his entire political persona from lifelong Democrat to populist, dog-whistle, conspiracy monger. Truth did not matter. And America was ready for that in ways most of us did not anticipate. white Christian fear and resentment was far more ready to explode than we wanted to believe in a world in which a black man could and was elected POTUS twice. This is a pan-national movement and the American strain Trump tapped into, while deep rooted racist and anti-Other, most of us thought was merely fringe...it's not, it's far more widespread and virulent than we thought.

Salty has pointed out, correctly, that there was also a latent isolationist piece of the far right that sounded reasonable to many who were disenchanted with the stubborn intractability of the Middle East. so, Trump falsely claimed that he'd always been against our actions in the ME, making up out of whole cloth his objecting to the Iraq invasion. No different than his pretending he hadn't been pro-choice all his life, holding up a bible to appease white Christian fundamentalists. Truth did not matter.

And with all that, Trump opened up a unique lane in the primaries. Truth did not matter.

But did he expect to actually succeed in winning the primaries, much less the general? I doubt it...he didn't need to be able to create Trump TV as the far right "populist" media voice, conspiracies being the stock in trade...

But yeah, HRC was uniquely beatable.

Buckwheat was an expression my grandfather use to use. It had NOTHING to do with the black kid on the little rascals if that is where you were going with your thought process that I was being racially insensitive. The one thing I am 100% certain of is that the queen of evil running for POTUS was the deciding factor as to why dump decided to run. The queen of evil running for POTUS is the only reason that dump won.

I'm not black so I wasn't assuming you were referring to that. Other than the grain, which is easy to grow and of low nutritional value, none of the slang usages are complimentary:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... t%20farmer

Apparently there's also a sex act...didn't link that one.

"100% certain"??? Do you have specific evidence of such? Would he not have run if it was a Pelosi type of candidate or a Warren or a Booker or a Holder or....or even Biden?

And how in the heck would you know this with any degree of certainty, I haven't seen any reporting to that effect, have you? All the reporting on this was that it was a branding play, plenty of ego involved for sure, but not an expectation of actually winning. It was about the dollars.

[cradleandshoot]

Run the best candidates, align the conservative policy positions best appealing to a majority of Americans, and conservatives can and do win. Of course, sometimes the other side runs a better candidate, aligns their policy positions to be more appealing...that's the way it works. Neither side wins them all.

Trump knocked out 17 of them....goodness. Same thing can be said about the left.

Not sure what you mean on the left (so far)...I don't recall anyone on the left, who's won, who's remotely Trump-like, flip side. The most 'radical' of any who's made it to the general in my lifetime was McGovern, and he really wasn't actually radical.

I think Trump's appeal was rather unique.

Sorry, my last point about the left, was about putting forth an appealing candidate...we can thank them for giving us Trump.

ahhh, I do agree that HRC was rather uniquely beatable (and the country was ready for a swing to the conservative side)...indeed, I thought any of the traditional R's on the stage might well have won the popular vote as well. We'll never know.

Yer missing the point there buckwheat. Once dump knew the queen of evil was the Democrat candidate he knew she was the only person running for the donkeys he knew he could beat. A classic case of the lesser of two evils. Emphasis on the word "evil"

Still don't know the meaning of 'buckwheat' in this context...I'd prefer you not add it.

I don't know that Trump ever thought he could actually win, lots of reporting is that his objective was to define a far right, populist image as the basis for a media play to the right of Fox. His real estate empire was under significant financial pressure given the unwillingness of lenders to lend and his prior media play having run its course, he was looking for a new revenue stream.

He had earlier stumbled into the birtherism falsehood and saw the traction that gave him and revamped his entire political persona from lifelong Democrat to populist, dog-whistle, conspiracy monger. Truth did not matter. And America was ready for that in ways most of us did not anticipate. white Christian fear and resentment was far more ready to explode than we wanted to believe in a world in which a black man could and was elected POTUS twice. This is a pan-national movement and the American strain Trump tapped into, while deep rooted racist and anti-Other, most of us thought was merely fringe...it's not, it's far more widespread and virulent than we thought.

Salty has pointed out, correctly, that there was also a latent isolationist piece of the far right that sounded reasonable to many who were disenchanted with the stubborn intractability of the Middle East. so, Trump falsely claimed that he'd always been against our actions in the ME, making up out of whole cloth his objecting to the Iraq invasion. No different than his pretending he hadn't been pro-choice all his life, holding up a bible to appease white Christian fundamentalists. Truth did not matter.

And with all that, Trump opened up a unique lane in the primaries. Truth did not matter.

But did he expect to actually succeed in winning the primaries, much less the general? I doubt it...he didn't need to be able to create Trump TV as the far right "populist" media voice, conspiracies being the stock in trade...

But yeah, HRC was uniquely beatable.

Buckwheat was an expression my grandfather use to use. It had NOTHING to do with the black kid on the little rascals if that is where you were going with your thought process that I was being racially insensitive. The one thing I am 100% certain of is that the queen of evil running for POTUS was the deciding factor as to why dump decided to run. The queen of evil running for POTUS is the only reason that dump won.

I'm not black so I wasn't assuming you were referring to that. Other than the grain, which is easy to grow and of low nutritional value, none of the slang usages are complimentary:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... t%20farmer

Apparently there's also a sex act...didn't link that one.

"100% certain"??? Do you have specific evidence of such? Would he not have run if it was a Pelosi type of candidate or a Warren or a Booker or a Holder or....or even Biden?

And how in the heck would you know this with any degree of certainty, I haven't seen any reporting to that effect, have you? All the reporting on this was that it was a branding play, plenty of ego involved for sure, but not an expectation of actually winning. It was about the dollars.

I'm guessing you hate buckwheat pancakes too? I'm only expressing my opinion MD. Again the topic goes back to the lesser of 2 evils. The humiliation that the queen of evil felt losing the election was worth 4 years of dump. For the queen of evil, there just were not enough lamps to smash against the wall. It is simple math MD, my contempt for the queen of evil runs deeper than your contempt for dump.