MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:26 pm
njbill wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:14 pm
ggait wrote: ↑Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:03 pm
If you think Biden/Garland would otherwise leave Trump's prosecution to NYS/NYC, you don't want to poke the bear.
I agree with his thinking.
While I do think T**** should be prosecuted for the obstruction of justice that Mueller found and any tax fraud matters the IRS is working on, I wouldn’t be surprised if Biden/Garland had intended to leave T**** to the states.
But the stunt T**** pulled last week may change the equation. I suspect it is more likely, though by no means certain, that they will indict T****.
I think they simply have to. You cannot allow a sitting President to try to overturn an election by violently taking over Congress without there being legal repercussions.
Yes, federal prosecutors generally don’t like to bring cases unless they are virtually assured of victory, but this is different. Even if T**** were to be acquitted through jury nullification or otherwise, a marker needs to be laid down that if you pull a stunt like this, you will be prosecuted. That’s how it looks from my couch anyway.
I do think you go all guns blazing if he tries to self pardon, but I think you stick to the indictments you will win on the evidence and precedents.
I think the incitement charge is much harder to prove legally than with common sense, so I dunno if you risk the loss there, especially if the Impeachment covers that one. I'd also stick to the crimes (re Trump as POTUS) that had nothing to with political maneuvering and shenanigans, even this most egregious one (unless you find more tape or testimony that he actually wanted the violence, wanted the Congress and Pence to be 'citizen arrested or worse); I also think it's a slam dunk on the call to Georgia Sec of State, but I think maybe you avoid that too (unless he self-pardons)...Giuliani and "trial by combat" and Lyn Wood and the Kraken...another matter.
So nail him on any tax and bank fraud, penalize his businesses (he can't pardon those), etc.
That last comment about pardoning the businesses...I'm correct, right, legal folks? I haven't heard about that...
Almost any case against a high profile defendant has risks. I don’t think you don’t bring a case just because you aren’t sure you will win. Unfortunately, however, that is how a lot of federal prosecutors act.
Mueller, a Republican appointed by a Republican, found that T**** engaged in obstruction of justice. That seems so long ago now, but that still was a very serious offense. Arguably, more serious than the Georgia election interference.
T****, like a mafioso, tried to carefully couch his words to avoid legal liability. When a mafia boss does it, however, that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be prosecuted simply because there are arguably multiple meanings to what he said.
As I said in another post, the incitement case will come down to jury selection. The fact that you may end up with a hold out who votes in favor of T**** regardless of the evidence is, to my mind, an insufficient reason not to prosecute him.
I don’t think you necessarily have to prove that T**** intended the rioters to be violent. To me, it is enough that he intended that they go to Congress, interfere with the job they were performing, and get them to vote to throw out sufficient number of electoral votes to deny Biden 270 votes. How are they going to do that other than through harassment, intimidation, or maybe even force? Even if they were to somehow do that peacefully, that still is illegal (insurrection to overthrow the validly elected president).
Sure, no one would want to see the prosecutor lose the case, but the message to some future president down the road would be that if I do this, I will be prosecuted. Maybe I won’t be so lucky as T**** to be acquitted. Maybe I will be convicted. Hopefully, that would give some future despot some pause.
Once you start the revolution ball rolling, you are responsible for the consequences. T**** doesn’t have to have specifically urged the crowd to kill the particular CP officer who died in order to be responsible for his death. Now, while I believe that to be the case, I wouldn’t suggest to prosecutors that they indict T**** for murder. For a lot of reasons, that would be bad strategy.
