Johns Hopkins 2020

[HopFan16]

As for 2018, go re-watch that game. Any time Hopkins tried to get the game close, Duke turned up their effort. It was big brother toying with little brother syndrome. They lost by 5, it wasn't competitive.

Leaving alone the fact that it was a 1-goal game with 6:30 to go in the 4th quarter, the underlying stats support that it was a competitive game:

Shots: 44-42 (JHU)
SOG: 23-20 (Duke)
Saves: 11-9 (Duke)
Turnovers 9-8 (JHU)
Clears: 14-16, 13-15
GBS: 26-24 (Duke)
Faceoffs: 18-7 (Duke)
EMO: 3-8, 0-2 (JHU)

The Jays actually won non-faceoff groundballs by a decent margin. Problem was they couldn't win any faceoffs. Every part of the box score was neck and neck except faceoffs. Hopkins took more shots and turned it over fewer times. Duke was better, which is why they won, but insisting it wasn't competitive (seemingly in order to better prove a historical argument that doesn't need any more support) does not match reality. It doesn't fit the pattern of these other blowouts.

Regardless of what happens this year, and it is June 1st (or 30th whenever his contract ends) and he doesn't have a new contract, his seat won't be hot, he won't have a seat because he won't be employed any longer.

Someone asked what the standard should be for him to get a new contract. That is what my thinking is. I have no control over what happens beyond what I say here.

My point was that, outside of the other stuff going on, UVA let Dom go after four very bad years that were empirically worse than our most recent seasons under Petro—they weren't just bad by UVA standards, they were bad period. They couldn't win an ACC game. If Petro has a season like Dom did in 2016, then you can probably start looking up Nadelen's number in the phone book. But them saying sayonara to Dom after that is very different from if Petro is pink-slipped right after making a quarterfinal.

[Antonio114]

Starsia was not crazy bad in 2014 and 2015, despite the pitiful in conference performance. Had some solid out of conference wins and no overly embarrassing losses besides the blowout loss to Hopkins in the 2015 tourney. But Petro has been no stranger to blowout first round losses as of late. I'd say 2014 and 2015 for UVA were on par or better than Hopkins' season last year and in 2017. In conference performance isn't everything. Starsia was still pulling in excellent recruits at that time too (granted Petro has done the same, which is what I admire about him most).

[51percentcorn]

A “show me” stance is not offering a contract extension until the season is over. That lights a fire under the coach. The AD has a very impressive background and her father and grandfather went to Hopkins. She grew up playing lax in the Baltimore area. I’m cautiously optimistic that this AD might actually care about Hopkins Lacrosse and the future may be looking brighter.

This is silly. If one thing can ever be said about Petro - and I would think even his most fervent "hater" would say it too - the guy's pilot light is always lit. You also have exactly zero idea as to what the new AD's role is or will be. Maybe she is wearing her big girl pants and saying this is my decision and mine alone but my personal guess is that this comes down to what Townsend, Cordish, Cowan, Matthews, maybe Harrison, maybe Rabil and some others think. This will be about money pure and simple. News flash - nobody cares anymore. She grew up playing lax in Baltimore - stop the presses. You know why the future will be brighter? Because Epstein might actually get to play two years with Grimes, McDermott, Bauer, etc. - not because of what some AD might do.

[Sagittarius A*]

I don’t think he has the fire he used to have.
The AD sets expectations and has the power to hire and fire. Look what Debbie Yow did for UMD lacrosse and she was on her way out the door. Even if your interpretation of circumstances is correct I’m sure she has a voice in the room at bare minimum. She strikes me as very very serious looking at her bio. Again, I don’t know her but she sounds very intense to me. Anyway something has changed. Petro has never gone into a lame duck season before that I’m aware of.

[OCanada]

Steel The “if” you posit is exactly what was not going to happen. He stayed on as long as he did because of the lawsuit.

People who don’t know Petro opining on his competitiveness. The people who I know who know him and I include myself in that know he is as determined as ever.

I have met the new AD. Spent time with her one on one. I have no idea what she will decide but her first priority was to meet with ALL her coaches and their staffs. First priority. There are a number of possibilities. One is the previous AD did not want to tie the hands of her successor. The new AD’s priorities are first to meet with her cosches and teams there being no urgency on this matter.

Another is there is a question as to whether there will be a change and they are looking at the pros and cons.

Personally I believe if he did not think he could do the job and did not have the desire he would leave on his own. He sets a very high standard on these kinds of things.

Given there is a group of lacrosse people who have been discussing the various reasons the program is not a top four program right now. What is interesting is no one seems to think that only the w-l record matters. Not true. Too many coaches have been terminated because of other issues. I don’t read much about academics, economics, size of recruiting pool, off field incidents etc etc.

[wgdsr]

Steel The “if” you posit is exactly what was not going to happen. He stayed on as long as he did because of the lawsuit.

ok, i've tried to just let this go by and expect you'd all be moving on to setting up the town hall on how best to axe the coach.
ridiculous. moderators/admin, please look at deleting this post for slander, innuendo, unsubstantiated (and wholly inaccurate) speculation or whatever best fits.

[DocBarrister]

Let’s see ...

19 Seasons

18 NCAA tournament bids

7 Final Fours

4 National Championship Games

2 National Championships

0 Major Off-Field Scandals

At most lacrosse-playing schools, the debate would be over where to put Pietramala’s statue (I favor inside the Cordish Center), not whether to can one of the greatest coaches in the history of the sport. Petro is in the Lacrosse Hall of Fame as a great player, but he would have been inducted as a coach if he were not already in the Hall.

Like just about everyone here, I’m not entirely satisfied by the past decade on the field. After two decades, maybe it is time to change directions if the Blue Jays’ 2020 season goes sour.

I’m not ready to give up on the Big Guy, and I doubt anyone actually playing or working in the program is ready to give up on him either. The three-game stretch (MD, MD, PSU) last year showed me this team can still play inspired lacrosse for their coach.

Talk to me after the 2020 season is done. I predict the debate next summer will be over how long an extension Petro should receive.

DocBarrister

[stupefied]

Let’s see ...

19 Seasons

18 NCAA tournament bids

7 Final Fours

4 National Championship Games

2 National Championships

0 Major Off-Field Scandals

At most lacrosse-playing schools, the debate would be over where to put Pietramala’s statue (I favor inside the Cordish Center), not whether to can one of the greatest coaches in the history of the sport. Petro is in the Lacrosse Hall of Fame as a great player, but he would have been inducted as a coach if he were not already in the Hall.

Like just about everyone here, I’m not entirely satisfied by the past decade on the field. After two decades, maybe it is time to change directions if the Blue Jays’ 2020 season goes sour.

I’m not ready to give up on the Big Guy, and I doubt anyone actually playing or working in the program is ready to give up on him either. The three-game stretch (MD, MD, PSU) last year showed me this team can still play inspired lacrosse for their coach.

Talk to me after the 2020 season is done. I predict the debate next summer will be over how long an extension Petro should receive.


Impressive record that few can match and he's still a damn good coach.

[jhu06]

what are the metrics the ad is mayve using to define the coach/success.
Are the coaches and players not getting into messes off the field-to our knowledge
are the kids keeping decent gpas-who knows exactly but we'll guess good enough.
how do alumni of the program and parents view the current state of it-we don't know.
how does the program recruit-rankings say better than average
how does the program compete in big10 part of the schedule-second best after maryland since start of conferrence
how does the program compete against traditional rivals/instate-petro has a winning record against almost every program he's faced multiple times except I think cuse and duke.
how does the program fare nationally-this is the screaming red flag.

There another series of questions-does she rate petro based on entirety of career or just last 5 years. That puts a much different spin on it. Then of course are questions we don't know about, things behind the scenes, donations, relationships, feedback she's gotten, whatever.

These reports of all the great kids we have coming are really hard because we've seen so many of them not pan out.

[NOVALax2015]

Certainly coach has an impressive career record at Hopkins (thanks Doc). The past decade has not been strong, so the questions I'd ask:
1. How do we define elite in the context of an elite D1 lax program? Like porn, I know it when I see it, but it would certainly help to define it up front. Not an easy task and many variables to consider other than W/L record, including the dynamic landscape of college lax (nobody will ever dominate like Hopkins used to).
2. Should we reasonably expect coach to return the program to elite status?
Set expectations and evaluate whether or not coach can get us there. I'm not advocating either way. The only dog I have in this fight is that, like most folks on this page, I want Hopkins to be considered to be among the best of the best D1 lax programs.

As for competitive drive, I feel confident coach has this in spades. Just an opinion, not something I can state as fact.

[MDlaxfan76]

Steel The “if” you posit is exactly what was not going to happen. He stayed on as long as he did because of the lawsuit.

ok, i've tried to just let this go by and expect you'd all be moving on to setting up the town hall on how best to axe the coach.
ridiculous. moderators/admin, please look at deleting this post for slander, innuendo, unsubstantiated (and wholly inaccurate) speculation or whatever best fits.

I don't think the moderation of this site is likely to be the same as LP.
Topics are going to be much more openly discussed, opinions stated, with less concern about protecting certain coaches from critique (and not others).

It's a discussion forum, not a journalistic endeavor.
I think that's a good thing, however we need to be mindful that what is put forward by anonymous posters may or not have credibility.

Better to simply say that the poster is mistaken and why you believe that to be the case, adding any particular credibility to your view that you can.

I agree with you that there are far more reasonable and likely explanations for why Dom Starsia's tenure continued post Love et al and 'culture' issues, claims of nepotism, declining outcomes, and likewise for why it ultimately ended. This other claim is far too simplistic, the situation was far more complex. I don't know, but I suspect it's also inaccurate.

The UVA situation was/is NOT directly analogous to Hopkins, except insofar as the discussion is about a long time top program and institution's decision to end the tenure of a long time, highly successful, widely admired, coach. But the situations have their own unique factors.

[Sagittarius A*]

How do you explain last year’s defense? Petro is arguable the best defenseman ever. He’s a defensive coach. He had Foley, an all America, Rapine, a UA AA, Collwell, and some pretty good LSMs yet had one of the worst defenses in the country last season. How do you even begin to explain that if you think Petro still has his coaching chops?

[OCanada]

wdgsr I like most of the time

But his post represents exactly what he is complaining about.

He doesn’t think anyone knows anything about the situation there at the time and certainly doesn’t want it talked about.

I used to text williewahoo from the time he was in HS.

I tried to avoid getting into the weeds on it. If I had to write it over again I would change it to one reason. Why would AD asked for the resignation but have the request refused if VA was going to retain him?

As to the post slander is spoken not written. Everything he wrote is unsubstantiated and innuendo

[HopFan16]

How do you explain last year’s defense? Petro is arguable the best defenseman ever. He’s a defensive coach. He had Foley, an all America, Rapine, a UA AA, Collwell, and some pretty good LSMs yet had one of the worst defenses in the country last season. How do you even begin to explain that if you think Petro still has his coaching chops?

Poles aren't the only guys who play defense.

The shot clock killed us. Petro's style of defense, which looked pretty good in 2018 with much of the same personnel as last year, did not transition well to the change. Too many mismatches. Not enough size or speed at the midfield. The close D may not have been spectacular but it largely wasn't the problem. Everything trickled down from the midfield. The problem of defending opposing teams' middies—already a glaring issue—was exacerbated.

It doesn't help that save % plummeted, and not just on close shots. The "force the offense to take bad shots" strategy doesn't work when those shots aren't consistently saved.

I don't think Petro has just suddenly forgotten how to coach defense, but it's abundantly obvious—and he'd probably be the first to admit (I hope, at least)—that things need to be tweaked. Things more substantial than just fixing fundamentals, which is important, but the problems go beyond that IMO.

[stupefied]

wdgsr I like most of the time

But his post represents exactly what he is complaining about.

He doesn’t think anyone knows anything about the situation there at the time and certainly doesn’t want it talked about.

I used to text williewahoo from the time he was in HS.

I tried to avoid getting into the weeds on it. If I had to write it over again I would change it to one reason. Why would AD asked for the resignation but have the request refused if VA was going to retain him?

As to the post about slander is spoken not written. Everything he wrote is unsubstantiated and innuendo

Wish I had a clearer understanding of what is being said by both of you

[OCanada]

Well from my perspective there has been a lot of commentary among several fans here about firing Petro because of his recent W-L record. In discussing that many coaching changes have been referenced almost all of which are not comparable and then they try to compare apples and oranges. I commented VA’s change was not comparable nor were a number of others. A former VA player and fan took exception to my comment and what I related dismissing it as inaccurate and slanderous. I disagree.

In order for it all to make sense to someone not already familiar would require a long recitation of events, a chronology, reference to a ton of other data etc

[FannOLax]

many coaching changes have been referenced al ost all of which ultra to compare apples and oranges.

A clearer understanding for readers starts with clear writing. In the quote above, I can figure out that an "m" was dropped from the word "almost," but I cannot understand what the word "ultra" is doing there. Before hitting "Submit," it is useful to read what you've written in order to correct typos and statements that make no sense.

[OCanada]

You are correct and I do BUT then auto complete takes over. My failure is not proofing it once it’s posted. LaxFi cleaned it up for 20 years. Laziness on my part in not correcting it

[admin]

I don't think the moderation of this site is likely to be the same as LP.
Topics are going to be much more openly discussed, opinions stated, with less concern about protecting certain coaches from critique (and not others).

It's a discussion forum, not a journalistic endeavor.
I think that's a good thing, however we need to be mindful that what is put forward by anonymous posters may or not have credibility.

MD, you're spot on. There's a limit to how far a post-er can go with innuendo and otherwise and... I don't feel comfortable deleting a post-ers opinion about why a coach was fired. Even if it is seemingly unsubstantiated. It's the nature of a forum. Just one man's opinion. Taken out of context, the post is awful. But within a thread, especially a thread where others are refuting the claim, I think it's appropriate to leave it and, in the name of facilitating discussions, discussions being the heart of a forum, inappropriate to delete it.

[Matnum PI]

Petro and Desko are a better comparison. Very similar situations. And then the counters to Petro and Desko are Tillman and Tiffany.