Johns Hopkins 2020

[Sagittarius A*]

Dom lost his job as a result of thing other than his record in the field. Not a good comparison. Hopkins team since he arrived has not had the kind of issues that hit his predecessor released. Steel is right imo he won’t be fired. Kids love him. The fraternity has big respect for him. Now that the twins are finally finishing HS he isn’t anchored here.

The most comparable is probably Richie Meade spear headed by a bunch of Alums who thought Navy could return to the glory days of the early 60s.

Balanced against the Navy debacle there was a lot of success with the coaching changes at UVA, Duke, UMD, and UNC. Dom Starsia used to say that every once in a while you have to do a little something. At Hopkins multiply that by 2. The video thing and the incomprehensible PT decisions have hurt an already bad situation. Steel is right. It’s probably FF or bust here with little wiggle room. That’s the stark reality of the situation.

[OCanada]

none of them are comparable except UNC. Duke was not a record issue. Neither was VA. UMD wasn't really either. UNC made a change and has one title to show for it. They have continued to under-perform expectations.

[51percentcorn]

It’s probably FF or bust here with little wiggle room. That’s the stark reality of the situation.

I sincerely doubt that. I will concede that this is certainly the closest they have let Petro come without announcing an extension so maybe the natives with the sharpest pitchforks and brightest torches are getting restless. And given these are humans - interpersonal relationships obviously matter. Maybe somebody doesn't like somebody else - I have zero idea. The greatest probability is tied to whether the alumni that pay the majority of the freight are in his camp or are of the opinion it can be better. For example, if he cared (I know he doesn't) Bloomberg could get Petro extended or fired with one phone call. I don't think Daniels really cares one way or the other. Petro's devotion to the military probably sings well with the new AD. If this year is identifiable as better than last (better than 7-6 and a first round game win) - and he wants to stay - he'll stay. If this year is a complete dumpster fire - could be an issue...

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

It’s probably FF or bust here with little wiggle room. That’s the stark reality of the situation.

I sincerely doubt that. I will concede that this is certainly the closest they have let Petro come without announcing an extension so maybe the natives with the sharpest pitchforks and brightest torches are getting restless. And given these are humans - interpersonal relationships obviously matter. Maybe somebody doesn't like somebody else - I have zero idea. The greatest probability is tied to whether the alumni that pay the majority of the freight are in his camp or are of the opinion it can be better. For example, if he cared (I know he doesn't) Bloomberg could get Petro extended or fired with one phone call. I don't think Daniels really cares one way or the other. Petro's devotion to the military probably sings well with the new AD. If this year is identifiable as better than last (better than 7-6 and a first round game win) - and he wants to stay - he'll stay. If this year is a complete dumpster fire - could be an issue...

[jhu72]

The University doesn't care, Daniels doesn't care and by extension the AD really doesn't care. The only people who care are the LAX alums and those on this site. Petro cares but to my eye, less than he did earlier in his career, he has aged and priorities changed. I don't know how every LAX alum feels, but the handful I have had any interaction with over the past few years, are really not happy. What the heavy lifting alums think, I do not know.

[OCanada]

I don’t agree with re the AD. She played. After graduation she became a fighter pilot. Competitiveness is in her blood.

Definitely concur on the rest of it.

The things that have cost many coaches are not w-l recorded it’s off field events. Hopkins hasn’t had any of that kind of event. There are a couple of coaches who are under the gun this year. Don’t know whether DP is or not.

I know some former players of note that area not happy. I know a group was organized to look into what was happening and why. I don’t know what they decided but I do know some of the items I have mentioned were discussed.

[GSP]

Why the reluctance to commit to even a loose minimum standard of success?

Could a similar reluctance within the administration to set even a minimum acceptable standard of success be contributing/has contributed to the current state of the program?

Organizations that do not set minimum standards and then take decisive corrective action when those standards are not met are just the institutional equivalents of the lame wildebeest on the Serengeti plain.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Lame wildebeest. There’s a new one!

I liken each playoff blowout to a Blue Jay returning home with all of its tail feathers bitten off. And its little urea hole sore from getting its ass thoroughly kicked.

[GSP]

...just waiting for that hungry lion!

[Chuckman]

...just waiting for that hungry lion!

Maybe time for Hopkins to come out from under that tree and show who they are this year !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QEuXDX40bE

[HopFan16]

Getting to the Final Four. There really isn't much of debate on this. Not sure why anyone raises this issue beyond that. The optics wouldn't look bad at all. Was Dom widely respected and admired in the community? Sure. Didn't save his job.

Absolutely not comparable. Dom's final four years at UVA were a debacle. They won one ACC game in four years. They missed the NCAA tournament twice and had two seasons with losing records. In his last year, they went 7-8, finished last in the conference, and missed the playoffs. So despite all he accomplished there, it made some degree of sense to move on after that.

If that happens to the Jays this year, then, sure, Petro's seat will be extremely hot. But if they make a quarterfinal—which would be an improvement over last year—he's not going anywhere. You may want it to be so, but it simply will not happen (assuming he wants to stay).

A Quarterfinal game where he gets blown out will be not any different than 2018, 2014, 2012 or 2011. Wining a 1st round game and then getting torched in the Quarterfinals. In fact, Hopkins has only had 2 (OT loss in 2006 to SU and 2015 FF loss to MD) close losses in the playoffs in the last 15 years. Otherwise, Hopkins regardless of round has not kept the game competitive when they have lost.

I'm not really sure why the 2018 quarterfinal keeps getting lumped in with these other games. It was a competitive game, not remotely a "blowout." Duke was up 2-3 for most of the game before the Jays cut it to a 1-goal deficit with 7 minutes left in the 4th quarter. From there, Duke pulled away, and wound up winning by 5. But halfway through the 4th quarter it was anyone's game to win. Duke was better—and it didn't help we couldn't buy a faceoff—but calling it a non-competitive blowout is rewriting history.

2011 and 2012 however were indeed the biggest disappointments in a long, long time—those were really good teams. 13-3 and 12-4 regular seasons, they were ranked #1 at one point and wound up as #2 and #3 seeds respectively in the tourney before laying eggs in the quarterfinals.

[Sagittarius A*]

The University doesn't care, Daniels doesn't care and by extension the AD really doesn't care. The only people who care are the LAX alums and those on this site. Petro cares but to my eye, less than he did earlier in his career, he has aged and priorities changed. I don't know how every LAX alum feels, but the handful I have had any interaction with over the past few years, are really not happy. What the heavy lifting alums think, I do not know.

I don’t know the new AD but I definitely like her. I admire her for sticking to her guns and adopting a “show me” stance. Maybe we’ll actually see some changes this year. The number one change I want to see is a change in goal. On the offensive end I want to see Zinn moved to the first line. I guess we’ll see soon enough.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

The University doesn't care, Daniels doesn't care and by extension the AD really doesn't care. The only people who care are the LAX alums and those on this site. Petro cares but to my eye, less than he did earlier in his career, he has aged and priorities changed. I don't know how every LAX alum feels, but the handful I have had any interaction with over the past few years, are really not happy. What the heavy lifting alums think, I do not know.

I don’t know the new AD but I definitely like her. I admire her for sticking to her guns and adopting a “show me” stance. Maybe we’ll actually see some changes this year. The number one change I want to see is a change in goal. On the offensive end I want to see Zinn moved to the first line. I guess we’ll see soon enough.

What evidence do you have of this show me stance?

I haven’t met her yet, but I plan to have some tough questions in mind.

That’s one problem with journalists, and especially in lacrosse. You ask tough questions, and you lose access.

I’ve never been impressed much by lacrosse journalism.

[51percentcorn]

Where things have really changed is the consideration of a 4 or 5 loss season somewhat successful.

That wasn’t the norm ten years ago. Not in the 80s, 90s nor 00s.

When was the tournament expanded to 16?

Somewhere around then, I heard a change - originating from the players - that every single game didn’t have to be an extreme life or death intense approach. Losses could happen, and they could still make the tournament.

Since then... losses have piled up, it’s not as easy to make the tournament, and blowouts in tourney play have been common.

4 or 5 loss seasons were not and should not be the Hopkins standard. But 4 or 5 and even 6 and 7 have become commonplace.

Why?

As a point of clarification - the 90's often looked quite similar to the 2010 decade IMO - there were only 2 years where the loss total was less than 4 - '95 of course and then '99 and there were 41 total losses in the decade. There was a 6-5 season, an 8-6 season and an 8-5 season. The difference of course was the team made the national semifinals 5 times. The caveat to that, however, was in several of those years the team only had to won one game to make the semis. Finally, the rejoinder to all that is Seaman and Haus were relieved of their position.

[OCanada]

Tony was not relieved of his position because of his w-l record. Haus was not a good hire for JHU in the opinion of NA y when it was announced. Presumably he was the best of the pool applying. Not every is how thinks JHU is a desirable place to be.

[HopFan16]

I haven’t met her yet, but I plan to have some tough questions in mind.

That’s one problem with journalists, and especially in lacrosse. You ask tough questions, and you lose access.

I’ve never been impressed much by lacrosse journalism.

If journalists are losing access when they ask tough questions, then it seems like the much bigger problem is the corrupt, insecure, and insular lacrosse community and its institutions.

There are, what, one, maybe two lacrosse publications with full time staff? And then a handful of blogs run by fans in their spare time? Knowing some of the people who write and report for said blogs, I know for a fact that some of them are indeed asking schools and coaches the tough questions, but are ignored, stonewalled, or blacklisted when they do so. People in the lax community think—and they're probably correct in thinking this—that there is very little downside to treating reporters this way. It's not like in another bigger sport where they'd get called out for doing so or there'd be social media upheaval directed at their insolence. The lax community is a tiny old boys club, and nobody cares. It's not going to change unless the sport gets MUCH more popular and actually has to answer to the masses.

[44WeWantMore]

The University doesn't care, Daniels doesn't care and by extension the AD really doesn't care. The only people who care are the LAX alums and those on this site. Petro cares but to my eye, less than he did earlier in his career, he has aged and priorities changed. I don't know how every LAX alum feels, but the handful I have had any interaction with over the past few years, are really not happy. What the heavy lifting alums think, I do not know.

I don’t know the new AD but I definitely like her. I admire her for sticking to her guns and adopting a “show me” stance. Maybe we’ll actually see some changes this year. The number one change I want to see is a change in goal. On the offensive end I want to see Zinn moved to the first line. I guess we’ll see soon enough.

What evidence do you have of this show me stance?

I haven’t met her yet, but I plan to have some tough questions in mind.

That’s one problem with journalists, and especially in lacrosse. You ask tough questions, and you lose access.

I’ve never been impressed much by lacrosse journalism.

Not just Lax.

At least since Ball Four, I think that "everybody knew" that all sports reporters need to be able to keep some things secret or they will be frozen out. And in the NYT, CNN admitted that they had to do something similar or close their Baghdad bureau.

[Sagittarius A*]

The University doesn't care, Daniels doesn't care and by extension the AD really doesn't care. The only people who care are the LAX alums and those on this site. Petro cares but to my eye, less than he did earlier in his career, he has aged and priorities changed. I don't know how every LAX alum feels, but the handful I have had any interaction with over the past few years, are really not happy. What the heavy lifting alums think, I do not know.

I don’t know the new AD but I definitely like her. I admire her for sticking to her guns and adopting a “show me” stance. Maybe we’ll actually see some changes this year. The number one change I want to see is a change in goal. On the offensive end I want to see Zinn moved to the first line. I guess we’ll see soon enough.

What evidence do you have of this show me stance?

I haven’t met her yet, but I plan to have some tough questions in mind.

That’s one problem with journalists, and especially in lacrosse. You ask tough questions, and you lose access.

I’ve never been impressed much by lacrosse journalism.

A “show me” stance is not offering a contract extension until the season is over. That lights a fire under the coach. The AD has a very impressive background and her father and grandfather went to Hopkins. She grew up playing lax in the Baltimore area. I’m cautiously optimistic that this AD might actually care about Hopkins Lacrosse and the future may be looking brighter.

[steel_hop]

Dom lost his job as a result of thing other than his record in the field. Not a good comparison.

I know what you are saying but if Dom was still competing for National Titles and being competitive in the ACC, he would still be on the sidelines in Charlottesville. There might have been some changes at the margins about who could be recruited or tightening of internal discipline, for the lack of a better word. But, Dom would still be at UVA. Winning cures all ills and administrations are more than willing to overlook some issues, but not all, so long as you are winning. People can want it to be different but it is not.

The correllary to that is that some of the off-field issues could have translated to poorer recruiting and bad lax play on the field. Given UVA won the championship composed of a team that was essentially recruited to play for Dom but coached by Tiffany, that only seems like a slight impact.

[steel_hop]

Getting to the Final Four. There really isn't much of debate on this. Not sure why anyone raises this issue beyond that. The optics wouldn't look bad at all. Was Dom widely respected and admired in the community? Sure. Didn't save his job.

Absolutely not comparable. Dom's final four years at UVA were a debacle. They won one ACC game in four years. They missed the NCAA tournament twice and had two seasons with losing records. In his last year, they went 7-8, finished last in the conference, and missed the playoffs. So despite all he accomplished there, it made some degree of sense to move on after that.

If that happens to the Jays this year, then, sure, Petro's seat will be extremely hot. But if they make a quarterfinal—which would be an improvement over last year—he's not going anywhere. You may want it to be so, but it simply will not happen (assuming he wants to stay).

A Quarterfinal game where he gets blown out will be not any different than 2018, 2014, 2012 or 2011. Wining a 1st round game and then getting torched in the Quarterfinals. In fact, Hopkins has only had 2 (OT loss in 2006 to SU and 2015 FF loss to MD) close losses in the playoffs in the last 15 years. Otherwise, Hopkins regardless of round has not kept the game competitive when they have lost.

I'm not really sure why the 2018 quarterfinal keeps getting lumped in with these other games. It was a competitive game, not remotely a "blowout." Duke was up 2-3 for most of the game before the Jays cut it to a 1-goal deficit with 7 minutes left in the 4th quarter. From there, Duke pulled away, and wound up winning by 5. But halfway through the 4th quarter it was anyone's game to win. Duke was better—and it didn't help we couldn't buy a faceoff—but calling it a non-competitive blowout is rewriting history.

2011 and 2012 however were indeed the biggest disappointments in a long, long time—those were really good teams. 13-3 and 12-4 regular seasons, they were ranked #1 at one point and wound up as #2 and #3 seeds respectively in the tourney before laying eggs in the quarterfinals.

Regardless of what happens this year, and it is June 1st (or 30th whenever his contract ends) and he doesn't have a new contract, his seat won't be hot, he won't have a seat because he won't be employed any longer.

Someone asked what the standard should be for him to get a new contract. That is what my thinking is. I have no control over what happens beyond what I say here.

As for 2018, go re-watch that game. Any time Hopkins tried to get the game close, Duke turned up their effort. It was big brother toying with little brother syndrome. They lost by 5, it wasn't competitive.