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Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 10:58 pm
by rolldodge
ny10458 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:08 pm
Finster wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:48 pm
ny10458 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:41 pm
https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... prediction
It's ridiculous Dordevic has hardly been mentioned on this thread as a finalist possibility, especially over Makar. Having an absolutely monster season, especially in the back half. First attackman picked in last night's PLL draft and let's get real, there's not going to be more than one pole finalist and that's gonna go to Adler.
35% shooting percentage, 163 shots, 25 TO’s.
Nope.
Obnoxiously reductionist response.
Do you even know the other players' stats? He's shooting at a greater percentage than Kirst and PKav. Only slightly below O'Neill's. No statistically significant difference in TOs between Dordevic and those guys either. I don't why he can't be the fifth guy on the list, and besides it isn't a pure stats contest anyways. I'd argue Dordevic shoulders a bigger load for his team than PKav or Shellenberger do.
The whole "if X shot more they'd score more goals" is such a stupid truism...like, yeah, that's why we use shooting percentage.
The Cuse guys have some kind of weird PTSD when it comes to Dordevic.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 11:44 pm
by ny10458
rolldodge wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 10:58 pm
ny10458 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:08 pm
Finster wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:48 pm
ny10458 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:41 pm
https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... prediction
It's ridiculous Dordevic has hardly been mentioned on this thread as a finalist possibility, especially over Makar. Having an absolutely monster season, especially in the back half. First attackman picked in last night's PLL draft and let's get real, there's not going to be more than one pole finalist and that's gonna go to Adler.
35% shooting percentage, 163 shots, 25 TO’s.
Nope.
Obnoxiously reductionist response.
Do you even know the other players' stats? He's shooting at a greater percentage than Kirst and PKav. Only slightly below O'Neill's. No statistically significant difference in TOs between Dordevic and those guys either. I don't why he can't be the fifth guy on the list, and besides it isn't a pure stats contest anyways. I'd argue Dordevic shoulders a bigger load for his team than PKav or Shellenberger do.
The whole "if X shot more they'd score more goals" is such a stupid truism...like, yeah, that's why we use shooting percentage.
The Cuse guys have some kind of weird PTSD when it comes to Dordevic.
I know, should be grateful he stuck around as long as he did.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 11:45 pm
by random observer
ny10458 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:08 pm
Finster wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:48 pm
ny10458 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:41 pm
https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... prediction
It's ridiculous Dordevic has hardly been mentioned on this thread as a finalist possibility, especially over Makar. Having an absolutely monster season, especially in the back half. First attackman picked in last night's PLL draft and let's get real, there's not going to be more than one pole finalist and that's gonna go to Adler.
35% shooting percentage, 163 shots, 25 TO’s.
Nope.
Obnoxiously reductionist response.
Do you even know the other players' stats? He's shooting at a greater percentage than Kirst and PKav. Only slightly below O'Neill's. No statistically significant difference in TOs between Dordevic and those guys either. I don't why he can't be the fifth guy on the list, and besides it isn't a pure stats contest anyways. I'd argue Dordevic shoulders a bigger load for his team than PKav or Shellenberger do.
The whole "if X shot more they'd score more goals" is such a stupid truism...like, yeah, that's why we use shooting percentage.
Agree with your overall point, but Kirst has a higher shooting percentage than Dordevic, Kavanagh, and O'Neill.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 11:57 pm
by The Orfling
ny10458 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:41 pm
https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... prediction
It's ridiculous Dordevic has hardly been mentioned on this thread as a finalist possibility, especially over Makar. Having an absolutely monster season, especially in the back half. First attackman picked in last night's PLL draft and let's get real, there's not going to be more than one pole finalist and that's gonna go to Adler.
I had Dordevic as my "first one out" but would not be surprised to see him displace somebody (maybe Shellenberger -- I still think Adler, bolstered by the #1 PLL Draft buzz, will make the finalist 5). Dordevic's coming into the tournament like a freight train picking up speed and there's been plenty of great buzz lately. Soon we'll see I guess.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 12:02 am
by Gatsby
ny10458 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:08 pm
The whole "if X shot more they'd score more goals" is such a stupid truism...like, yeah, that's why we use shooting percentage.
I intentionally didn't cite shooting percentage in an effort to not highlight your boy's deviation when compared to top shooters but if you want it, it proves the "stupid truism" even more evidently, and shows that some scorers on the list are making a lot of effort (shots) to get on the same level. And note that two guys at the bottom are primarily assist guys.
57% Dickson
47% Cormier
43% C. Kavanagh
37% Kirst
36% O'Neill
35% Dordevic
29% Shellenberger
29% P. Kavanagh
I think that was a comment Syracuse fans often made, about his extended possession of the ball and taking a disproportionate amount of shots.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 8:40 am
by rolldodge
Gatsby wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:02 am
ny10458 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:08 pm
The whole "if X shot more they'd score more goals" is such a stupid truism...like, yeah, that's why we use shooting percentage.
I intentionally didn't cite shooting percentage in an effort to not highlight your boy's deviation when compared to top shooters but if you want it, it proves the "stupid truism" even more evidently, and shows that some scorers on the list are making a lot of effort (shots) to get on the same level. And note that two guys at the bottom are primarily assist guys.
57% Dickson
47% Cormier
43% C. Kavanagh
37% Kirst
36% O'Neill
35% Dordevic
29% Shellenberger
29% P. Kavanagh
I think that was a comment Syracuse fans often made, about his extended possession of the ball and taking a disproportionate amount of shots.
Dickson clearly the outlier here. I think its a shame he's not in the final 25. Hopefully they are able to rectify that and add him to the finalists.
These stats show Doredevic pretty much in line with other volume shooters like Kirst and O'Neill. You of course need to take the whole season into account, but Dordevic has been shooting 47% over the past 6 games, during which he's had 8 of this 13 assists. Its taken some time to settle in, but better coaching and a better supporting cast have clearly been beneficial.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 8:56 am
by joewillie78
My top 10 and how I would vote right now, when I consider who I believe to be the best Lacrosse player in D1, and I know a D-man won't win but I don't care and i dont care if they werent nominated. Here's how I would vote:
1. Adler
2. O'Neil
3. Kirst
4. Dickson
5. Shellenberger
6. Dordevic
7. Kavanaugh
8. Makar
9. Entenmann
10. Kurtz
Gobigred
Joewillie78
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 9:11 am
by Farfromgeneva
Was expecting the list to be:
Adler
Kirst
Coyle
Kelleher
Everyone else
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 9:28 am
by joewillie78
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:11 am
Was expecting the list to be:
Adler
Kirst
Coyle
Kelleher
Everyone else
I love this list. Forget what I wrote above and change my list to what FFG has posted.
Gobigred
Joewillie78
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 9:32 am
by Farfromgeneva
joewillie78 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:28 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:11 am
Was expecting the list to be:
Adler
Kirst
Coyle
Kelleher
Everyone else
I love this list. Forget what I wrote above and change my list to what FFG has posted.
Gobigred
Joewillie78
Notwithstanding Pannell and Teat I still think Seibald is the best Cornell player in my lifetime or that I can recall anyways.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 9:48 am
by 10stone5
French, McEneaney.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 9:56 am
by Farfromgeneva
10stone5 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:48 am
French, McEneaney.
Generally before my time
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:01 am
by Finster
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:11 am
Was expecting the list to be:
Adler
Kirst
Coyle
Kelleher
Everyone else
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:02 am
by Finster
joewillie78 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 8:56 am
My top 10 and how I would vote right now, when I consider who I believe to be the best Lacrosse player in D1, and I know a D-man won't win but I don't care and i dont care if they werent nominated. Here's how I would vote:
1. Adler
2. O'Neil
3. Kirst
4. Dickson
5. Shellenberger
6. Dordevic
7. Kavanaugh
8. Makar
9. Entenmann
10. Kurtz
Gobigred
Joewillie78
I like your list except #1. I’d also say that Will Mark should be in there.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:03 am
by 10stone5
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:56 am
10stone5 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:48 am
French, McEneaney.
Generally before my time
Goldstein is another.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:04 am
by Finster
rolldodge wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 8:40 am
Gatsby wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:02 am
ny10458 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:08 pm
The whole "if X shot more they'd score more goals" is such a stupid truism...like, yeah, that's why we use shooting percentage.
I intentionally didn't cite shooting percentage in an effort to not highlight your boy's deviation when compared to top shooters but if you want it, it proves the "stupid truism" even more evidently, and shows that some scorers on the list are making a lot of effort (shots) to get on the same level. And note that two guys at the bottom are primarily assist guys.
57% Dickson
47% Cormier
43% C. Kavanagh
37% Kirst
36% O'Neill
35% Dordevic
29% Shellenberger
29% P. Kavanagh
I think that was a comment Syracuse fans often made, about his extended possession of the ball and taking a disproportionate amount of shots.
Dickson clearly the outlier here. I think its a shame he's not in the final 25. Hopefully they are able to rectify that and add him to the finalists.
These stats show Doredevic pretty much in line with other volume shooters like Kirst and O'Neill. You of course need to take the whole season into account, but Dordevic has been shooting 47% over the past 6 games, during which he's had 8 of this 13 assists. Its taken some time to settle in, but better coaching and a better supporting cast have clearly been beneficial.
It took Dordevic a while but he seems to have really improved the last 6 games.
And I don’t have a problem with him. He tried at Cuse and handled himself really well. There are a few Fanlax Cuse folks who aren’t nearly as sanguine about the young man
I also think Dickson is easily top-5 for the Tewey. It’s a crime he is not.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:08 am
by Farfromgeneva
10stone5 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 10:03 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:56 am
10stone5 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:48 am
French, McEneaney.
Generally before my time
Goldstein is another.
And you believe all three were better than Max? Know the names and reputations but never saw those guys play.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:11 am
by 10stone5
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 10:08 am
10stone5 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 10:03 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:56 am
10stone5 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:48 am
French, McEneaney.
Generally before my time
Goldstein is another.
And you believe all three were better than Max? Know the names and reputations but never saw those guys play.
Game was different then
probably still more up and down fast-paced than even the shot clock era.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:12 am
by rolldodge
I think O’Neill is an interesting contender with the balance of goals and assists he’s been able to achieve. He suffers a bit a la LeBron James when it comes to these conversations in that his game is not a “beautiful” as some others. He’s more of a power forward than a shooting guard.
Re: Tewaaraton Finalist
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:32 am
by drunkmonkey30
10stone5 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 10:03 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:56 am
10stone5 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:48 am
French, McEneaney.
Generally before my time
Goldstein is another.
Paul Schimoler
