Denver 2022

[Wheels]

Denver used to beat ACC teams because they played a style of TEAM offense and defense. Now it appears they have tried to take on the identity of a ACC team without the ACC level talent.

The shot clock era has not been kind to DU, especially on the offensive end of the field. Connor Cannizzaro was perhaps more important to DU's title run than was Trevor Baptiste. A player like Cannizzaro would be even more valuable today in the shot clock era because he draws slides. Those kinds of players are in short supply for the Pios, so the ones who can get loaded up by defenses. If you can't draw slides off of the dodge, your step down shooters, who DU always seems to have, can't get time and room to shoot. Your inside finishers (hello boxla Canadians!) are never open. The shot clock has put even more of a premium on pure athleticism.

You need athletes in the midfield….and defense. You can’t win without + athletes. UVA and Maryland have a lot of athletes.

The Hop fans don't like it when I say that recruiting big, fast athletes is difficult when they're surrounded by D3 athletes. One of the big advantages that ACC and B1G schools have, even with their own sport-specific facilities, is that big-time athletes like to be around other big-time athletes. During recruiting, they get treated like football and basketball recruits. It matters. Guys like Tills and Lars have embraced that, so it's not an accident when you see Tills recruit 3 or 4 players that have ended up playing D1 football after giving verbals to Maryland.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Denver used to beat ACC teams because they played a style of TEAM offense and defense. Now it appears they have tried to take on the identity of a ACC team without the ACC level talent.

The shot clock era has not been kind to DU, especially on the offensive end of the field. Connor Cannizzaro was perhaps more important to DU's title run than was Trevor Baptiste. A player like Cannizzaro would be even more valuable today in the shot clock era because he draws slides. Those kinds of players are in short supply for the Pios, so the ones who can get loaded up by defenses. If you can't draw slides off of the dodge, your step down shooters, who DU always seems to have, can't get time and room to shoot. Your inside finishers (hello boxla Canadians!) are never open. The shot clock has put even more of a premium on pure athleticism.

You need athletes in the midfield….and defense. You can’t win without + athletes. UVA and Maryland have a lot of athletes.

The Hop fans don't like it when I say that recruiting big, fast athletes is difficult when they're surrounded by D3 athletes. One of the big advantages that ACC and B1G schools have, even with their own sport-specific facilities, is that big-time athletes like to be around other big-time athletes. During recruiting, they get treated like football and basketball recruits. It matters. Guys like Tills and Lars have embraced that, so it's not an accident when you see Tills recruit 3 or 4 players that have ended up playing D1 football after giving verbals to Maryland.

You win with athletes. The more, the better.

[10stone5]

Denver used to beat ACC teams because they played a style of TEAM offense and defense. Now it appears they have tried to take on the identity of a ACC team without the ACC level talent.

The shot clock era has not been kind to DU, especially on the offensive end of the field. Connor Cannizzaro was perhaps more important to DU's title run than was Trevor Baptiste. A player like Cannizzaro would be even more valuable today in the shot clock era because he draws slides. Those kinds of players are in short supply for the Pios, so the ones who can get loaded up by defenses. If you can't draw slides off of the dodge, your step down shooters, who DU always seems to have, can't get time and room to shoot. Your inside finishers (hello boxla Canadians!) are never open. The shot clock has put even more of a premium on pure athleticism.

You need athletes in the midfield….and defense. You can’t win without + athletes. UVA and Maryland have a lot of athletes.

The Hop fans don't like it when I say that recruiting big, fast athletes is difficult when they're surrounded by D3 athletes. One of the big advantages that ACC and B1G schools have, even with their own sport-specific facilities, is that big-time athletes like to be around other big-time athletes. During recruiting, they get treated like football and basketball recruits. It matters. Guys like Tills and Lars have embraced that, so it's not an accident when you see Tills recruit 3 or 4 players that have ended up playing D1 football after giving verbals to Maryland.

You win with athletes. The more, the better.

During the entire Tierney era,
how many actual Top 10 recruits has Denver brought in ?
Not very many.
Baptiste of course.
Matthews, Munro recruited him.
Zach Miller, he left.
Walker of course, Cannizarro transferred from Maryland.
Hiltz, he decommitted.

Albany has done better, the Thompsons, Fields, Nanticoke, Ierlan.
The Ivies have done better.
Georgetown has gotten more top tens in just a few years.

They should have a direct pipeline from the BC Jr A’s where
Wes Berg came from.
Patrick Dodd ?
Did the Pios recruit that guy ?
Will Malcom, did they recruit Malcom ?
Tre LeClaire ?
Connor Robinson ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Denver used to beat ACC teams because they played a style of TEAM offense and defense. Now it appears they have tried to take on the identity of a ACC team without the ACC level talent.

The shot clock era has not been kind to DU, especially on the offensive end of the field. Connor Cannizzaro was perhaps more important to DU's title run than was Trevor Baptiste. A player like Cannizzaro would be even more valuable today in the shot clock era because he draws slides. Those kinds of players are in short supply for the Pios, so the ones who can get loaded up by defenses. If you can't draw slides off of the dodge, your step down shooters, who DU always seems to have, can't get time and room to shoot. Your inside finishers (hello boxla Canadians!) are never open. The shot clock has put even more of a premium on pure athleticism.

You need athletes in the midfield….and defense. You can’t win without + athletes. UVA and Maryland have a lot of athletes.

The Hop fans don't like it when I say that recruiting big, fast athletes is difficult when they're surrounded by D3 athletes. One of the big advantages that ACC and B1G schools have, even with their own sport-specific facilities, is that big-time athletes like to be around other big-time athletes. During recruiting, they get treated like football and basketball recruits. It matters. Guys like Tills and Lars have embraced that, so it's not an accident when you see Tills recruit 3 or 4 players that have ended up playing D1 football after giving verbals to Maryland.

You win with athletes. The more, the better.

During the entire Tierney era,
how many actual Top 10 recruits has Denver brought in ?
Not very many.
Baptiste of course.
Matthews, Munro recruited him.
Zach Miller, he left.
Walker of course, Cannizarro transferred from Maryland.
Hiltz, he decommitted.

Albany has done better, the Thompsons, Fields, Nanticoke, Ierlan.
The Ivies have done better.
Georgetown has gotten more top tens in just a few years.

They should have a direct pipeline from the BC Jr A’s where
Wes Berg came from.
Patrick Dodd ?
Did the Pios recruit that guy ?
Will Malcom, did they recruit Malcom ?
Tre LeClaire ?
Connor Robinson ?

Baptiste was #74 (I believe) and was headed to Franklin & Marshall…..I almost forgot, Denver made an offer to my son but he never considered it.

[10stone5]

Another, in real terms, top 10 type recruit.

Asher Nolting.
How did Nolting not end up a Pio ?

He just passed 300 career points, maybe the most successful
player to come out of the western states, Colorado, California,
Oregon — where some tremendous players have been recruited.

[wgdsr]

Denver used to beat ACC teams because they played a style of TEAM offense and defense. Now it appears they have tried to take on the identity of a ACC team without the ACC level talent.

The shot clock era has not been kind to DU, especially on the offensive end of the field. Connor Cannizzaro was perhaps more important to DU's title run than was Trevor Baptiste. A player like Cannizzaro would be even more valuable today in the shot clock era because he draws slides. Those kinds of players are in short supply for the Pios, so the ones who can get loaded up by defenses. If you can't draw slides off of the dodge, your step down shooters, who DU always seems to have, can't get time and room to shoot. Your inside finishers (hello boxla Canadians!) are never open. The shot clock has put even more of a premium on pure athleticism.

You need athletes in the midfield….and defense. You can’t win without + athletes. UVA and Maryland have a lot of athletes.

The Hop fans don't like it when I say that recruiting big, fast athletes is difficult when they're surrounded by D3 athletes. One of the big advantages that ACC and B1G schools have, even with their own sport-specific facilities, is that big-time athletes like to be around other big-time athletes. During recruiting, they get treated like football and basketball recruits. It matters. Guys like Tills and Lars have embraced that, so it's not an accident when you see Tills recruit 3 or 4 players that have ended up playing D1 football after giving verbals to Maryland.

You win with athletes. The more, the better.

During the entire Tierney era,
how many actual Top 10 recruits has Denver brought in ?
Not very many.
Baptiste of course.
Matthews, Munro recruited him.
Zach Miller, he left.
Walker of course, Cannizarro transferred from Maryland.
Hiltz, he decommitted.

Albany has done better, the Thompsons, Fields, Nanticoke, Ierlan.
The Ivies have done better.
Georgetown has gotten more top tens in just a few years.

They should have a direct pipeline from the BC Jr A’s where
Wes Berg came from.
Patrick Dodd ?
Did the Pios recruit that guy ?
Will Malcom, did they recruit Malcom ?
Tre LeClaire ?
Connor Robinson ?

tyler pace was #3. denver had 5 guys that were almost top 20 that year.

wes berg?

[Puck Swami]

No one expected DU to be 3-4 at this point in the season. Some would say that just when they solved the ground ball deficit issue that hurt them in the first three losses, their shooting accuracy and goaltending failed them today vs. Yale. That's one way to look at it.

Others would say Denver's problems are more systemic as the Pios have slipped from Elite (top 4) in 2017 to currently out of the top 20 by a series of recruiting misses (coupled with improvement by other programs) and are now reaping the reality of that on the field. The recruiting issues have become especially acute now that the duct-tape solutions that last year's Yale transfers (Morrill, Cotler and Ierlan) provided have now all graduated, along with PLL pros like Walker, Squires and Logan, plus the fact that Denver goaltending has been inconsistent (or worse) since the days of Ryan Laplante.

Either way or in-between, we Pioneer fans hope short term and longer term fixes are coming soon...

[10stone5]

I should mention,
I’m just asking the questions.

BTW, the Tierney’s were among the first to attend NorCal
summer camps way back when, Tambroni, Petro also.

And,
the top two, at least in terms of scoring, California players
in DI were Pios,

Austin French, San Ramon Valley, Denver - 154 pts
Erik Adamson, Foothill-Santa Ana, Denver - 146, Honorable Mention

Although Anthony DiMaio is likely to pass them.

And, the Pios did get the top California kid a couple years back
in Sillstrop.

[cherrylax]

Another disappointing loss. Saddest thing is its starting to feel routine at this point. Let's go over my weekly list of things that didn't make sense

1. You carry 6 goalies on the roster and yet you leave a guy in who ended up at 38% on the day?? I think that young man has been a wonderful player for this team but as a coach you have to realize that he's not having a good day. I'm shocked that they didn't make a change at half time, at least to run Thompson out there for a change from right handed to left handed to try and throw Yale's shooters off.
2. Can someone PLEASE get topside on defense. It's not like Yale had a bunch of tick tack toe passing, but they did beat our defenders top side and created offense every time. Defense looks lost at times and doesn't know where to send help when guys are getting beat to the middle of the field.
3. Our shooting is embarrassingly bad. A former staple of good pioneers offense has clearly been overlooked and now we are paying the price. Could be totally on confidence and lack there of, but Sunday was tough to watch.

Stathakis seemed to settle in the second half, and our man up played well. That's. About. It.

[10stone5]

The next stretch is difficult.
This is a much much tougher schedule than pure SOS
would indicate.
And that’s the problem with SOS.
It overweights downward the soft teams on a schedule.
This is really a top ten difficult schedule, adding in the
likelihood of playing Georgetown twice.

[Denver14]

Teams are like a set of elements that either bond or fail to bond in a chemical way, team chemistry, if you will. It forms between players, and no coach I know can do more than supply the right lab etc. See Duke vs Loyola, or see Norte Dame, any day, for examples where the bonds fail despite the efforts of coaches. In its magic days DU had chemistry, put in place by student leaders who were stars and not. Compare that to last season where super talent did not have time to bond, and then the whole thing vanished, leaving parts that this season seem to bounce off each other rather than gel into a single 20 person reaction. Chemistry. Hard to make, and harder when the losses pile up. Hope they find a way to mesh before Georgetown, and nova, and …

[DU-fan]

I think team chemistry really makes a big difference. But, nothing helps team chemistry like winning. Losing causes stress among the players, coaches, and between coaches and players.

I thought Denver did well with ground balls, face offs, and the offense looked great a times. The Yale goal played well and Denver could not stop Yale from scoring. Denver has a very tough one this weekend against OSU. I am not optimistic.

After that, the schedule gets a little easier with the exception of Georgetown.

There are bright spots, but Denver needs to put it all together and clean up the mistakes if they are going to win.

[molo]

Tierney will go out under his own terms. He is the only coach to win NCs at two different schools, neither of which was exactly a national power when he took over. Nonetheless, Denver has declined recently, dropping from the elite level to the high teens to low twenty range this year. I just watched two former powerhouses who let legendary coaches go after maybe hanging on too long play a game largely derided by observers as one of the worst in the history of their rivalry. Sometimes it's better to step down and wonder if you may have had a couple of good years left than to hang on and learn that you stayed on too long. Maybe college lax is getting like pro sports. The coaching salaries are so good that it pays to keep going even when you have past your prime.

[10stone5]

Tierney’s name could open up another to be determined
western school, to get alumni to pony up the lucre to start
up a new DI program.

This was really Tierney’s goal.
To open up lacrosse in the western half of the US.

[gunnerz]

The coaching salaries are so good that it pays to keep going even when you have past your prime.

Do you really think Tierney's continuing to coach for the money?

He loves coaching, it's his life.

[smoova]

The coaching salaries are so good that it pays to keep going even when you have past your prime.

Do you really think Tierney's continuing to coach for the money?

He loves coaching, it's his life.

This is correct ... and exactly why it will be so hard for him to leave of his own volition.

[cherrylax]

I don't think Tierney will/should leave. I feel like as a program Denver needs to get back to some of the principals that made it an elite program.

-Team offense, high percentage shots
-Team defense, getting beat to the right areas of the field, and limiting penalties
-50% goaltending, don't think this is too much to ask
-Winning the ground ball battle EVERY game

Somewhere in the past couple of years we've lost that identity, and I think our coaching staff has too many outside distractions. Just doing a bit of research on some of what the Denver coaching staff is involved in:

LXTC lacrosse club teams
Denver Pioneers Summer Camps (4x per summer)
Colorado Collegiate Box lacrosse League
Denver Pride women's Box lacrosse
USBOXLA DENVER BOX LACROSSE
DU PIONEERS WINTER BOX TRAINING
DENVER ELITE BATTLE IN THE BOX Tournament
DU PIONEERS ASCENSION PROSPECT CAMPS
2021 LXTC QUICKSTICKS YOUTH LACROSSE CLINICS

Now I understand that this is how lacrosse coaches make livable wages, and that most programs do some sort of camps or club programs. But you cannot tell me that they are going to do all of that as well as going out to see recruits? If they are than I would argue that these guys are overworked.

You may also argue that this is is how the coaches see potential recruits from in state. But unfortunately we have ZERO commits from Colorado in the 2022 and 23 class.

But with the decline in talent on this team it appears are recruiting has suffered due to over scheduling. Also I would imagine there isn't a lot of time for the coaches to do individual skill work with players.

This is probably a conversation for the end of season, but I'd be interested to hear what others take on this is.

[10stone5]

The coaching salaries are so good that it pays to keep going even when you have past your prime.

Do you really think Tierney's continuing to coach for the money?

He loves coaching, it's his life.

I don’t believe he was referring to Tierney
with that comment.

[smoova]

This is probably a conversation for the end of season, but I'd be interested to hear what others take on this is.

It sounds like we both have intimate experience with the LXTC program, but our opinions may not align. I don't think the programs you listed above are impacting the DU staff's recruiting efforts at all, particularly considering that LXTC/USBOXLA/camps/etc have been operating in largely their current form for at least the last decade. If anything, the DU staff's overall involvement in the LXTC program dramatically shrunk when John O. left for Navy. I personally watched Bill, Matt and John G. at ~8 east coast showcases/tourneys in fall 2020, summer 2021 and fall 2021. They were attending exclusively as recruiters and none of them had any material responsibilities/involvement with the LXTC field teams (in Denver or elsewhere) during that period. Andrew and Trevor bear the great majority of the burden in running LXTC (especially following Kenny's departure). That said, LXTC is (for several reasons) currently hemorrhaging staff and younger players, so any distraction caused by the program may not be a problem for much longer ...

[CU77]

If I can offer an outsider's perspective: when the Tierney hire was announced, it was tremendously exciting: a HOF coach, arguably the greatest lax coach of all time (that's my opinion) was taking over! Top-quality lax in the West! It seems to me that any HS kid in that era would be tantalized by the idea of being of part of this. And then, it worked! National champs! A truly great achievement. But now, in a sense, the big story was over. Tierney came, saw, conquered. Now what? Well the program would continue, but now it was just another top lax program, no unique story to be part of. And so Denver is now in the mix with all the other storied programs, many of which are also struggling (Cuse, Hop). And new programs keep popping up (BU, Marquette, Michigan) with their own stories to tell. So it's just going to be much harder for any school to be consistently top 10.