Johns Hopkins 2022

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Sagittarius A*
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by Sagittarius A* »

51percentcorn wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:06 am
Sagittarius A* wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:25 am Both Larry Quinn and Piggy got warmups from Joe Cowan.
Chitown wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:48 am Chic or Scotty warmed up our Goalies. No one else.
Sagittarius A* wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:52 am Thank you!
He just directly contradicted your contention you nitwit and you're thanking him for it. I watched Piggy play for all 3 NC seasons and I never saw anybody but Chic but maybe it was Cowan with hair dye and those black cleats with the white trim.
Nobody is saying a good system required to warmup goalies is not important - it's clearly important. It's ridiculous, however, to attribute any direct success to Junior warming up the goalies. Velocity and his skills are not required - adherence to the program, the system and the goalie's needs/comfort are required. End of story.
Although it's pointless to argue with you since you know everything, I suggest you go back and read Scott's book again. He clearly makes a point of the goalie not seeing harder more accurate shots in the game than in the warmup.
OH, Sorry, I didn't realize all the national championships you won. What did Scott have, 7 I think?
OMG.
Joe Cowan was one of the greatest of the greats! What are you even talking about?
The difference between Cowan warming up the goalies and a third string attackman doing it is astronomical.
If I were a goalie, I would want Junior warming me up.
I want to smoke what you guys are smoking.
Holy God. Honestly, I can't even think of an adjective here.....
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HopFan16
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by HopFan16 »

Sagittarius A* wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:19 pm
51percentcorn wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:06 am
Sagittarius A* wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:25 am Both Larry Quinn and Piggy got warmups from Joe Cowan.
Chitown wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:48 am Chic or Scotty warmed up our Goalies. No one else.
Sagittarius A* wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:52 am Thank you!
He just directly contradicted your contention you nitwit and you're thanking him for it. I watched Piggy play for all 3 NC seasons and I never saw anybody but Chic but maybe it was Cowan with hair dye and those black cleats with the white trim.
Nobody is saying a good system required to warmup goalies is not important - it's clearly important. It's ridiculous, however, to attribute any direct success to Junior warming up the goalies. Velocity and his skills are not required - adherence to the program, the system and the goalie's needs/comfort are required. End of story.
Although it's pointless to argue with you since you know everything, I suggest you go back and read Scott's book again. He clearly makes a point of the goalie not seeing harder more accurate shots in the game than in the warmup.
OH, Sorry, I didn't realize all the national championships you won. What did Scott have, 7 I think?
OMG.
Joe Cowan was one of the greatest of the greats! What are you even talking about?
The difference between Cowan warming up the goalies and a third string attackman doing it is astronomical.
If I were a goalie, I would want Junior warming me up.
I want to smoke what you guys are smoking.
Holy God. Honestly, I can't even think of an adjective here.....
You're not making any sense but putting all that aside for a second what's fascinating to me is that in a long and detailed scrimmage report, the one piece of information you singled out and thought was worthy of being commented on was that the assistant coach was spotted warming up the goalie like every other game and scrimmage ever? And, again, that wasn't a change from last year. Junior warmed up the goalies last season. It's not new info.

HOB I'd owe you several beers if you posted the scrimmage videos so we'd have something else to talk about.

Also, they updated Schnydman's obit with funeral info. 06 floated one of his rare good ideas, the team should and, if I had to guess, likely will add a "JS" decal to helmets this season: https://hopkinssports.com/news/2021/10/ ... ndman.aspx
51percentcorn
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by 51percentcorn »

Sagittarius A* wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:19 pm Holy God. Honestly, I can't even think of an adjective here.....
You really need help - no adjectives - believe me I know the feeling
Cowan was clearly an assistant coach for 14 years after he finished playing - his playing credentials are NOT the issue
But as Chitown said - I think Chic warmed up the goalies

This is a point I am not sure of BUT the mathematics question to me whether Cowan was on staff when the mighty Quinn ruled the world. Everything I can find says Cowan joined the staff after he finished playing for 14 years. That has him leaving when Chic left - after the 83 season - which makes some sense - ergo maybe not warming up LQ in 84/85. I honestly don't remember.
Last edited by 51percentcorn on Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sagittarius A*
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by Sagittarius A* »

HopFan16 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:33 pm
You're not making any sense but putting all that aside for a second what's fascinating to me is that in a long and detailed scrimmage report, the one piece of information you singled out and thought was worthy of being commented on was that the assistant coach was spotted warming up the goalie like every other game and scrimmage ever? And, again, that wasn't a change from last year. Junior warmed up the goalies last season. It's not new info.
Well that's funny because Matt Kinear, Editor-in-Chief at IL, also MAKES A POINT OF IT in his article.
I'm making sense to everyone on this board, except for two guys who think they know everything and who believe their role is to police this board and criticize anyone who posts anything.
The act is getting old folks.
Chill. Lighten up. Have a beer.
Jesus.
flalax22
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by flalax22 »

Arguments over goalie warm up. I didn’t have that on the Hopkins Forum Looney Bird Bingo Card. Well done boys!
51percentcorn
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by 51percentcorn »

Sagittarius A* wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:44 pm Well that's funny because Matt Kinear, Editor-in-Chief at IL, also MAKES A POINT OF IT in his article.
Editor IN CHIEF - well then - why didn't you say so in the first place? I would hardly call this making a point of it
"When John Grant, Jr., is warming up goalies pre-game, that’s a good sign both in net and on the offensive side of the ball." Direct quote by Matt Kinnear (you spelled his name wrong) EDITOR EMERITUS HONORUS CAUSA EXTRAORDINARY PLENIPOTENTIARY Inside Lacrosse
I think he was simply making a light hearted joke that Junior had the offense so dialed in - he could warm-up the goalies.
Sagittarius A* wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:44 pm I'm making sense to everyone on this board,

I doubt it
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ohmilax34
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by ohmilax34 »

This is entertaining, so please keep it up.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Chitown wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:48 am I know in my heart that I should NOT venture into this topic, BUT I had 3 coaches at JHU (Coach Fewster, Chic & Scotty), all of whom are in the Hall of Fame. Another Coach, Ace Adams, got me my first and only coaching gig.

Here is what I learned: Most goalies need cat-like reflexes (if they start thinking too much, it can be disastrous), most goalies are "head-cases" (if they lose confidence, you are screwed) and need to be treated carefully, and warm-ups are done pursuant to a developed system and with precision: starting with slow outside bounce shots and working inward towards the Goalie. A player is NEVER given the job to warm-up a Goalie. Warming up a Goalie needs someone with experience. Chic or Scotty warmed up our Goalies. No one else.

We always had good goalies, surrounded by good defensemen and good defensive middies.

I have no other comments and nothing else to say.
Indeed, this is what makes this thread fun to participate on.

I've mentioned my credentials plenty, 3 generations of tenders, all at a high level, son is particularly analytical and has coached a bunch of D1 and D3 tenders. It's fair to say that years and years of watching goalies, including their warm-ups, as well as experiencing thousands of same ourselves, we'd have an opinion on this topic.

Chitown's post is right on, though I don't know that I'd go so far as to say "never" on a warm up from a non coach. But I'd never do it game day with my starter nor #1 back-up. It would be a rare that I wouldn't have one of the coaches, or me, do any warm-up as it needs to be someone fully trained to do so.

Warm-ups, most especially game day, must be highly intentional. They have a rhythm that is designed to build and maintain confidence, as well as sharpness of eye, warmth of body movement. They are not a new teaching opportunity, other than perhaps being conscious of field conditions, and perhaps reminders about opponent shooting tendencies, etc (though that should have been adequately drilled the day prior), so a simple reminder would suffice.

Heavy heat on game day should only be applied after the tender is well warm and sharp. The objective of such is solely about feeling confident that the heat is no big deal to handle. The shooter's objective should NEVER be to score repeatedly, but rather solely in working the tender to be relaxed and smooth in their movements, all of which have been drilled and drilled and drilled previously.

Again, game day warm ups, pre-game and at half-time, are all about being warm and confident, the latter being the #1 objective. Attitude is essential. The tender should leave the warm-up, smiling, confident, loose and eager to take on the opponent.

Personally, I never felt fully great until I'd taken a shot or two to the chest or leg and got that adrenaline jolt in response to a bit of 'pain'.

Now, whether the shooting coach is someone who can bring truly high heat or not is far less important than the seriousness of the approach to the exercise. The head coach or the dedicated goalie coach or whatever coach needs to be very, very serious about this task. The goalie corps will respect and appreciate that seriousness as well. And they'll respond in kind.

If that primary coach cannot himself bring the very high heat, a good drill in pregame is two shooters at top line, fed by one or two of the other goalies behind the goal. For this drill, a coach or player with a hard shot can be involved, though under the close management of the coach. The shooter needs to recognize that the objective is to show high heat, not to score repeatedly. Just do enough to build confidence versus heat.

Now, that's all game-day. Other kinds of intensive work during the week and off season involve all kinds of other work, putting various sorts of challenges in front of the tenders to conquer.

Again, all of that, too, needs to be highly intentional.
The process of training skills, refining technique, etc, and the building of confidence is not a one day process!
But it can be fouled up by poor game day management.

On the reputation re 'head case' of tenders, I think that all players benefit from serious attention to game-day process, confidence in one's preparation, confidence in one's team mates. Great coaching respects this reality and manages it proactively.

That said, perhaps more than any other position, goalie play is impacted more by the state of mind achieved than raw physical ability, though again, all player positions are impacted by mental state. But the goalie faces much more "failure" than any other position, rivaled only by the FOGO. And the differential between success and failure is not a matter of a burst of 'effort' signaled by a whistle but rather relaxation and focus in the moments of highest stress. Again and again and again.

Somehow, the goalie needs to truly believe that whatever may have just occurred during the game, he is fully capable of making the next save no matter how terrific the next shot may be. It's not 'cockiness' but rather well-informed deep down confidence than enables such resilience. And that's extremely difficult to achieve, or to maintain, if the 'voices' around one at practice, off the field, in one's head, are saying something different. There's always going to be negative voices, but they needn't be the most important.

So, the environment that coaches build is crucial to at least provide the opportunity for such confidence to be built in each tender on the roster.

Of course, that may not be enough...it also depends on the tender having the emotional resiliency to go through adversity and come out all the more competitively driven. Very hard to measure, but I think it's quite crucial. (Corollary: I think it's particularly difficult to predict such resiliency when the kid is being recruited as a freshman/sophomore given early success based on 'athleticism').

I don't know whether Grant Jr's involvement is because of his shooting ability (I rather doubt it) but I'd take it as a potential signal of seriousness. But the real question is the actual seriousness of approach, not necessarily which coach is assigned.

Nor do I have an opinion re Benson.

I am, however, confident that Joe Cowan would have taken the task quite seriously. ;)
But I'm not so sure that Joe's involvement in warm-ups wasn't a finish up from Scott or Chic, giving the tender some looks once warmed up...I'll try to remember to ask him next time I see him!
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HopFan16
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by HopFan16 »

Sagittarius A* wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:44 pm
HopFan16 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:33 pm
You're not making any sense but putting all that aside for a second what's fascinating to me is that in a long and detailed scrimmage report, the one piece of information you singled out and thought was worthy of being commented on was that the assistant coach was spotted warming up the goalie like every other game and scrimmage ever? And, again, that wasn't a change from last year. Junior warmed up the goalies last season. It's not new info.
Well that's funny because Matt Kinear, Editor-in-Chief at IL, also MAKES A POINT OF IT in his article.
I'm making sense to everyone on this board, except for two guys who think they know everything and who believe their role is to police this board and criticize anyone who posts anything.
The act is getting old folks.
Chill. Lighten up. Have a beer.
Jesus.
Lol. Yes it was one aside in a 2,000 word article. Matt Kinnear, editor-in-chief at IL, also mistakenly wrote that Marcille played a full half in both scrimmages. One of those should have been Webb, no? What's your point?

No one is criticizing "anyone who posts anything." We've been talking about the scrimmages for several pages now without anything being policed or criticized in any way, shape, or form. HOB, 51, 06, DocB, flalax, nyjay, primitive, Ruffled all having a perfectly nice chat.

But then you came in with the goalie warm-up stuff and, well, yes, we're allowed to respond? That's not being "policed." Just because someone thinks your post is dumb doesn't mean you're being policed. I asked if you knew that Junior warming up the goalies wasn't new and then pointed out that him doing so last year didn't make a lick of difference to goalie play in actual games, and your response was "OMG. Read Bob Scott's book." I then pointed out that Benson followed the Bob Scott Way for many years and your response to that was, er, wait, you didn't acknowledge that.
wgdsr
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by wgdsr »

if anyone attempts to kill this discussion, i'm bringing in the mods.
FannOLax
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by FannOLax »

Pre-game goalie warm-up is definitely more important than the cartoon Blue Jay helmet decal that may or may not resemble a duckling.
Hoponboard
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by Hoponboard »

16: Flew out to SF after the scrimmages. Posting the videos will have to wait until next week.
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HopFan16
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by HopFan16 »

FannOLax wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:56 pm Pre-game goalie warm-up is definitely more important than the cartoon Blue Jay helmet decal that may or may not resemble a duckling.
But just barely
Hoponboard wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:00 pm 16: Flew out to SF after the scrimmages. Posting the videos will have to wait until next week.
Appreciate it
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by Hoponboard »

Did everyone order their Hopkins beanie? Will come in handy on those cold February evenings.

“For your gift of $25, we'll send you a limited-edition JHU winter beanie! Find out more and make your gift now.”

https://www.givecampus.com/v68k2b
runrussellrun
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by runrussellrun »

wgdsr wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:52 pm if anyone attempts to kill this discussion, i'm bringing in the mods.
a juiceier discussion would be why a certain someone IS not nominated for the US Lacrosse hall of fame.

Kyle Harrison not included in the 2021 HoF class...........very curious. He is eligible, yes?

Perhaps Petro forgot THAT paperwork too.....
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Farfromgeneva
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by Farfromgeneva »

wgdsr wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:52 pm if anyone attempts to kill this discussion, i'm bringing in the mods.
As in the mod squad?
Harvard University, out
University of Utah, in

I am going to get a 4.0 in damage.

(Afan jealous he didn’t do this first)
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HopFan16
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by HopFan16 »

runrussellrun wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:20 pm He is eligible, yes?
No and he won't be for several years. You, however, are eligible for a lobotomy
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by runrussellrun »

HopFan16 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:00 pm
runrussellrun wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:20 pm He is eligible, yes?
No and he won't be for several years. You, however, are eligible for a lobotomy
Are you completely, 100 percent SURE about that?

US Lacrosse has NEVER put in someone who played just a good "pro" career, so, it's been 15 years.....the time frame (actually 10 years ,for ERA player was eligible for )

Again....it was exactly 15 years since Petro graduated from Hopkins....BAM....he is in.

The player that broke Hopkins 17 year championship drought..........well, gee, 15 years after HE graduates.......silence.

All this woke stuff........just can't dole it out in real life, eh Hopkins crowd.

Or....you can take the racists "criteria" jargon words as evidence........

https://www.usalacrosse.com/sites/defau ... 0Final.pdf

Minimum Criteria for Men and Women
Must be retired* from playing the game for at least ten (10) years OR must have had at
least fifteen (15) years lapse from a scheduled college graduation year and be retired*
from the game. (Note: College attendance is not a prerequisite for consideration)
Must be inducted into at least one US Lacrosse, local or affiliated, Hall of Fame. The
exception noted where greatest lacrosse achievements and contributions occurred in an
area where no US Lacrosse, local or affiliated, Hall of Fame is established and active.
Must have played collegiate lacrosse in the United States of America
Must have character beyond reproach
*retired = not participating at the level of play for which candidate is being evaluated for induction


Mr. Harrison graduated in 2005?

Yes....he is eligible. And...ummm......US Lacrosse can make their own rules. Would YOU complain if Kyle Harrison was in the 2021 HoF class?

Again....Petro was inducted exactly 15 years after exhausting his college eligibilty.....

Long history of racism in lacrosse..........and the WOKE crowd will post a few pictures to feel all cozy at nite :roll:
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
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HopFan16
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by HopFan16 »

runrussellrun wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:13 pm
HopFan16 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:00 pm
runrussellrun wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:20 pm He is eligible, yes?
No and he won't be for several years. You, however, are eligible for a lobotomy
lots and lots of words
Harrison retired after the 2021 HoF inductees were announced. He was still "playing the game" at the time nominees were selected. He wasn't eligible
runrussellrun
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Re: Johns Hopkins 2022

Post by runrussellrun »

HopFan16 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:21 pm
runrussellrun wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:13 pm
HopFan16 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:00 pm
runrussellrun wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:20 pm He is eligible, yes?
No and he won't be for several years. You, however, are eligible for a lobotomy
lots and lots of words
Harrison retired after the 2021 HoF inductees were announced. He was still "playing the game" at the time nominees were selected. He wasn't eligible
So , you are telling us, that Kyle Harrison will not be eligible for the US Lacrosse Hall of Fame.....as truly a great COLLEGE lacrosse player (like Petro after 15 years, based on only COLLEGE ) until 2031....or 2035 ?

Several years, you claim...... ok,when, and what year, is he eligible, according to you ?

You keep on ignoring Petro HoF induction timing........

DAVE PIETRAMALA
HALL OF FAME | INDUCTED 2004 - 15 years = 1989
COLLEGE

Johns Hopkins University


They must have changed the rules, even tho I just posted the criteria/rules............keep on defending the snub.
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Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
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