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Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:18 pm
by holmes435
So now Trump is curious why Joe Biden didn't institute a national mask mandate? This is real life folks...

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps- ... d=73035489
TRUMP: Well, I do wear them when I have to and when I’m in hospitals and other locations. But I will say this. They said at the Democrat convention they're going to do a national mandate. They never did it, because they’ve checked out and they didn’t do it. And a good question is, you ask why Joe Biden -- they said we’re going to do a national mandate on masks.

STEPHANOPOULOS: He’s called on all governors to have them. There’s a state responsibility…

TRUMP: Well no, but he didn’t do it. I mean, he never did it. Now there is by the way, a lot of people don’t want to wear masks. There are a lot of people think that masks are not good. And there are a lot of people that as an example you have…

Re: All things China Virus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:25 pm
by kramerica.inc
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:57 am
Brooklyn wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:16 am
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:11 am
Brooklyn wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:08 am
Peter Brown wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:20 am

Justin Trudeau is the world's biggest pu@@y, and in no universe should any leader emulate that wet noodle. I still can't believe he's hetero...is that a false front marriage?


Trudeau is saving Canadian lives while your pu@@y grabbing hero is killing Americans. By the time this plague is over the self proclaimed Chosen One likely kill more Americans than did his hero Hitler.
Yup. Pete's the troll here.

:lol:

Thanks for another well-reasoned and thought-out post, Brookie.



Americans killed by Axis in Europe WWII: 214,362 according to https://ehistory.osu.edu/exhibitions/cw ... statistics


Today, in only a handful of months, right wing hero tRUMP is on the verge of accomplishing the same:


Image




Just imagine what those numbers will look like if he "wins" again in November.
ok, just in Europe. Excluding Pacific.

Not sure we can blame all American deaths from Covid on Trump's mismanagement, but I do agree that we're well past the point where it's now fair to say that a majority of the deaths so far were preventable had he been minimally competent and forthright. Better still if he'd been a terrific leader and marshaled our collective spirits and energies together to crush the curve.
We did flatten the curve. That was the original goal.

Most states outside of NY had enough ventilators thanks to people staying home from March-June

But in June there was a national collective in the media that changed that goal to eliminate deaths and hospitalizations completely, which is/was impossible.

Re: All things tRUMP CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:33 pm
by a fan
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:25 pm But in June there was a national collective in the media that changed that goal to eliminate deaths and hospitalizations completely, which is/was impossible.
No. The media narrative was/is: every other 1st world county has done better than the US in terms of per capita deaths, and GDP drop.

And, of course, reacting to TrumpLand not wanting to hear this, because it's the worst thing in the world if anyone dares says that Trump doesn't fly over buildings in a single bound.

You understand that the whole "America is doing a great job with Covid" is just flat out insane, right?

We have NOT done a great job. Blame whomever you choose.....but it's irrefutable that we have not done well so far.

Re: All things tRUMP CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm
by wgdsr
a fan wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:33 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:25 pm But in June there was a national collective in the media that changed that goal to eliminate deaths and hospitalizations completely, which is/was impossible.
No. The media narrative was/is: every other 1st world county has done better than the US in terms of per capita deaths, and GDP drop.

And, of course, reacting to TrumpLand not wanting to hear this, because it's the worst thing in the world if anyone dares says that Trump doesn't fly over buildings in a single bound.

You understand that the whole "America is doing a great job with Covid" is just flat out insane, right?

We have NOT done a great job. Blame whomever you choose.....but it's irrefutable that we have not done well so far.
whether it's the media narrative or not, those 2 things happen to not be true.

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:00 pm
by old salt
You didn't have to stay at home, so long a you were on your way to a virtuous peaceful protest.

Re: All things tRUMP CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:01 pm
by kramerica.inc
a fan wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:33 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:25 pm But in June there was a national collective in the media that changed that goal to eliminate deaths and hospitalizations completely, which is/was impossible.
No. The media narrative was/is: every other 1st world county has done better than the US in terms of per capita deaths, and GDP drop.

And, of course, reacting to TrumpLand not wanting to hear this, because it's the worst thing in the world if anyone dares says that Trump doesn't fly over buildings in a single bound.

You understand that the whole "America is doing a great job with Covid" is just flat out insane, right?

We have NOT done a great job. Blame whomever you choose.....but it's irrefutable that we have not done well so far.
The narrative of "every other first world country has done better than the US," was not possible at the time OR true in this scenario. The US was just a couple weeks behind the rest of the European countries and those stats were immeasurable.

I am sorry, we are just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, friend.

IMO, the collective media narrative most certainly changed from, "we need to flatten the curve" to "we need to keep this quarantine going to save as many lives as possible." And that was simply untenable in the US, during the summer months, with overall numbers going down, in a country with more personal freedom than any other in the world.

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:02 pm
by a fan
old salt wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:00 pm You didn't have to stay at home, so long a you were on your way to a virtuous peaceful protest.
Right. Blame who you choose.

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:03 pm
by kramerica.inc
old salt wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:00 pm You didn't have to stay at home, so long a you were on your way to a virtuous peaceful protest.
And those protests were deemed NOT Super Spreader Events. All of them. That have been going on daily...for months...all over the country.

But that one weekend Sturgis event was the big problem.

:lol:

Re: All things tRUMP CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:06 pm
by a fan
wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm whether it's the media narrative or not, those 2 things happen to not be true.
Who had worse outcomes? Our GDP dropped 32.9% in quarter 2.

And our per capita deaths? Spain has us beat by a hair. Hooray?

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:10 pm
by ggait
whether it's the media narrative or not, those 2 things happen to not be true.
Would love to see some data back up for this WG.

As we sit now, USA has passed France Sweden and Italy for cumulative deaths per million pop. We will soon pass the UK and eventually may pass Spain as well to claim the title of the WOAT in the First World.

Given that all those countries were WAAAAAAAY worse than the USA in March April May, that means we've been the worst over the summer and are currently doing the worst.

Deaths reported yesterday:

USA 1,197
Spain 156
France 49
UK 27
Italy 9
Canada 9
Japan 9
SK 4
Sweden 0

You keep saying that it is a long race (true). But as the race wears on, we keep doing worse. Six months in, the couple weeks difference in the starting point argument has really lost its logic force.

Have at it.

Re: All things tRUMP CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:13 pm
by MDlaxfan76
a fan wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:33 pm
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:25 pm But in June there was a national collective in the media that changed that goal to eliminate deaths and hospitalizations completely, which is/was impossible.
No. The media narrative was/is: every other 1st world county has done better than the US in terms of per capita deaths, and GDP drop.

And, of course, reacting to TrumpLand not wanting to hear this, because it's the worst thing in the world if anyone dares says that Trump doesn't fly over buildings in a single bound.

You understand that the whole "America is doing a great job with Covid" is just flat out insane, right?

We have NOT done a great job. Blame whomever you choose.....but it's irrefutable that we have not done well so far.
correct.

Kram, I do think that the "flatten the curve" paradigm was a rhetorical shortfall, as it should have been "crush the curve".

We initially had a near existential problem in NY and nearby with the threat of an overrun hospital system, food supply breakdown, either or both of which could have led to a societal collapse. So, "flatten" below hospital capacity was the most urgent issue, for sure. Thank god we didn't breach that point, but it was darn close.

However, all of the epidemiological experts made clear that we needed to sustain our efforts thoroughly through the end of June and to then be able to transition to an intensive test, trace, and isolate strategy to crush any new outbreaks. Do that, and deaths would have gone to near zero by August.

Note, that would have meant we could work and some play in a near, if not fully, normal way by July/August and be doing so now. With far, far fewer deaths and way, way lower incidence of the virus to continue to "crush". Yes, social distancing and masks, but back to work, school, and some play, all in modified forms.

Unfortunately, the messaging from the White House, particularly from Trump directly, was not nearly as clear and forthright as was necessary to achieve "crush" and he quickly pivoted to using the efforts at the state levels as a political dividing line, politicizing mask wearing, social distancing, etc...blaming 'blue states', etc.

Likewise, there was an abdication of federal responsibility to drive the testing capabilities, having bumbled testing so badly out of the gate. Same for PPE, abdicated...yes, a lot of ventilators have been made, but crushing the amount of virus spread was de-prioritized by Trump.

We're now doing a ton of testing...which would be plenty had we first crushed the incidence level as recommended, but is woefully inadequate to actually achieve the test, trace, isolate strategy given the incidence of the virus across the country.

And Trump continues to undermine mask wearing at each turn. Grossly dumb.

But it's more than just dumb.

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:18 pm
by Typical Lax Dad

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:21 pm
by MDlaxfan76
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:03 pm
old salt wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:00 pm You didn't have to stay at home, so long a you were on your way to a virtuous peaceful protest.
And those protests were deemed NOT Super Spreader Events. All of them. That have been going on daily...for months...all over the country.

But that one weekend Sturgis event was the big problem.

:lol:
Whoa, who deemed them not super spreader events???
Certainly not the posters on here.

We all said that not wearing masks during the protests (peaceful or otherwise) undoubtedly spread the virus...fortunately, in most of those protests most of the people in the crowds were wearing masks, but far from enough to prevent spread.

What does gall most of us, except for a few Trumpists on here, is that the right wing "protests", including those which are simply campaign rallies, are a vast majority of people purposely and defiantly refusing to wear masks as a political gesture in support of Der Leader...

Re: All things tRUMP CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:29 pm
by wgdsr
wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:06 pm
wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm whether it's the media narrative or not, those 2 things happen to not be true.
Who had worse outcomes? Our GDP dropped 32.9% in quarter 2.
you realize of course we pump an annualized number into headlines on this here in the u.s., do you not? we're "ahead" of most of europe. save for maybe the scandanavian countries and then a few others where the diff is miniscule.
wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:06 pm And our per capita deaths? Spain has us beat by a hair. Hooray?
technically, spain and the uk each do for the time being.
as does belgium by a quite a long ways.

and spain and italy just couldn't keep track that early. time will probably add decent sized numbers to their rolls.

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:55 pm
by wgdsr
ggait wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:10 pm
whether it's the media narrative or not, those 2 things happen to not be true.
Would love to see some data back up for this WG.

As we sit now, USA has passed France Sweden and Italy for cumulative deaths per million pop. We will soon pass the UK and eventually may pass Spain as well to claim the title of the WOAT in the First World.

Given that all those countries were WAAAAAAAY worse than the USA in March April May, that means we've been the worst over the summer and are currently doing the worst.

Deaths reported yesterday:

USA 1,197
Spain 156
France 49
UK 27
Italy 9
Canada 9
Japan 9
SK 4
Sweden 0

You keep saying that it is a long race (true). But as the race wears on, we keep doing worse. Six months in, the couple weeks difference in the starting point argument has really lost its logic force.

Have at it.
in what world (1st, 2nd, 3rd?) does belgium reside?

spain and italy's numbers are quite a bit worse. maybe ours are, too.

he made a statement on the present day. not a month from now, 6 months, or for the last 3. so i commented on it.

as sweden was being excoriated i thought we'd run by them. i'm an amateur.

in truth, i only commented on the death per capita statement as it was included in the gdp pronouncement. which is demonstrably wrong.

Re: All things tRUMP CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:57 pm
by a fan
wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:29 pm you realize of course we pump an annualized number into headlines on this here in the u.s., do you not?
We've been posting GDP gains or losses for decades. I don't understand your complaint here....I give you a number, and you come back with "I don't like that number".

That's fine----but at least come back with a preferred metric. Unemployment? GDP? And let's have a comparison.

If you have missed my posts----I don't blame Trump as others do for the mess. Maybe that helps you square my comments.

wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm technically, spain and the uk each do for the time being.
as does belgium by a quite a long ways.
And their GDP? Or your preferred metric? How's unemployment in the UK or Spain pre and post covid? That goes to Congress and their lack of help.
wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm and spain and italy just couldn't keep track that early. time will probably add decent sized numbers to their rolls.
I think time is going to add large numbers to every countries death toll in the coming years. Agreed.

Re: All things tRUMP CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:07 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
a fan wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:57 pm
wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:29 pm you realize of course we pump an annualized number into headlines on this here in the u.s., do you not?
We've been posting GDP gains or losses for decades. I don't understand your complaint here....I give you a number, and you come back with "I don't like that number".

That's fine----but at least come back with a preferred metric. Unemployment? GDP? And let's have a comparison.

If you have missed my posts----I don't blame Trump as others do for the mess. Maybe that helps you square my comments.

wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm technically, spain and the uk each do for the time being.
as does belgium by a quite a long ways.
And their GDP? Or your preferred metric? How's unemployment in the UK or Spain pre and post covid? That goes to Congress and their lack of help.
wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm and spain and italy just couldn't keep track that early. time will probably add decent sized numbers to their rolls.
I think time is going to add large numbers to every countries death toll in the coming years. Agreed.
Our number is likely to go down while others go up.

Re: All things tRUMP CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:07 pm
by wgdsr
a fan wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:57 pm
wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:29 pm you realize of course we pump an annualized number into headlines on this here in the u.s., do you not?
We've been posting GDP gains or losses for decades. I don't understand your complaint here....I give you a number, and you come back with "I don't like that number".

That's fine----but at least come back with a preferred metric. Unemployment? GDP? And let's have a comparison.

If you have missed my posts----I don't blame Trump as others do for the mess. Maybe that helps you square my comments.

wgdsr wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm technically, spain and the uk each do for the time being.
as does belgium by a quite a long ways.
And their GDP? Or your preferred metric? How's unemployment in the UK or Spain pre and post covid? That goes to Congress and their lack of help.
you said gdp. that's what i was going by.
europe's was down 3.5 to 4% in the first quarter.
ours was down about 1.25%.

europe's was down 12% in the 2nd quarter.
ours was down 9.5%. multiply .905 times itself 4 times and tell me what you get.

i didn't say i didn't like your number, i tried to explain to you what you're reading here vs in other countries. if our economy dropped 33% in one quarter, we'd be in real trouble. (that's a joke)

it's the difference between annualized and quarter on quarter. which i do know you understand for business. we tend to report it differently.

Re: All things Chinese CoronaVirus

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:11 pm
by Typical Lax Dad

Change the Racist Title of This Thread

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:30 pm
by DocBarrister
kramerica.inc wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:03 pm
old salt wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:00 pm You didn't have to stay at home, so long a you were on your way to a virtuous peaceful protest.
And those protests were deemed NOT Super Spreader Events. All of them. That have been going on daily...for months...all over the country.

But that one weekend Sturgis event was the big problem.

:lol:
That’s actually correct.

The Black Lives Matter protests did not cause a spike in COVID-19 cases, probably because the events were outdoors and protesters were generally conscientious about wearing masks.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... d-19-cases

In contrast, Sturgis involved bikers, many of whom did not adhere to mitigation measures (wearing masks and social distancing) and spent much time inside bars and restaurants. Researchers from Johns Hopkins have confirmed that Sturgis caused a spike in COVID-19 cases, but probably not as much as some San Diego researchers claimed.

https://ncrc.jhsph.edu/research/the-con ... -covid-19/

To be more blunt ... BLM protesters were enlightened individuals who generally adhered to appropriate infection mitigation measures, preventing a spike in cases.

In contrast, Sturgis attracted a crowd with a disproportionate number of Trumpist morons who didn’t wear masks and did not practice social distancing, thereby causing a spike in COVID-19 cases.

DocBarrister