2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[Matnum PI]

Kyle Griffin@kylegriffin1
18 mins ago
Republicans give a standing ovation to Gosar and Cruz for challenging the Arizona electoral votes. Republicans applaud an attempt to overturn the results of Arizona's election. There is no issue with the votes. And yet, applause.

[CU77]

Yet when California Senator Barbara Boxer joined with Ohio Representative Stephanie Tubbs-Jones to object to the certification of Ohio’s electors — as some Republicans pledge to do on Wednesday — the media treated the exercise as a reasonable and valid effort to shine light on claimed “irregularities.”

For some mysterious reason this article does not give the vote totals on the objection. In the Senate, it was 74-1 against, Boxer being the 1.

Note the large number of Senators who were absent. It was a pro-forma process, barely covered in the media. And there were most definitely not 30,000 people rallying outside the White House, urged on by the defeated candidate, in a "Stop the Steal" rally.

[ggait]

But Democrats in Congress have protested every Republican presidential election for the past 20 years, without the media accusing them of attacking democracy itself.

Right. You're REALLY going to pretend that what Trump and the R's are doing is the same thing as a pointless floor protest vote...that no one notices or cares about---- AFTER Hillary and Gore conceded?

Come on.

False equivalency is false. Not equivalent.

But let's agree that no one (D or R) should pull this stunt in the future. Because if one side plays with matches, then the other side feels justified in whipping out a flame thrower.

[seacoaster]

But Democrats in Congress have protested every Republican presidential election for the past 20 years, without the media accusing them of attacking democracy itself.

Right. You're REALLY going to pretend that what Trump and the R's are doing is the same thing as a pointless floor protest vote...that no one notices or cares about---- AFTER Hillary and Gore conceded?

Come on.

Beat me to it. Kramer is full of...baloney, and wants to hold fast to this notion that TAATS. Not now, not on these issues. The GOP is a special kind of disgrace, an unprecedented disgrace. The faux piety of these toadying serfs called GOP Congressmen should mortify all Americans.

A democracy requires both sides to understand that one side loses when it gets fewer votes. Republicans no longer believe in this bedrock value. A disgrace. TANATS.

[CU88]

Where has this Mitch been for the last 4 years?

[seacoaster]

Where has this Mitch been for the last 4 years?

Hiding behind the steady, ever loathsome Ted. Cruz cites polling, created by relentless GOP and Trumpist messaging. Disgusting.

[3rdPersonPlural]

But Democrats in Congress have protested every Republican presidential election for the past 20 years, without the media accusing them of attacking democracy itself.

Right. You're REALLY going to pretend that what Trump and the R's are doing is the same thing as a pointless floor protest vote...that no one notices or cares about---- AFTER Hillary and Gore conceded?

Come on.

Beat me to it. Kramer is full of...baloney, and wants to hold fast to this notion that TAATS. Not now, not on these issues. The GOP is a special kind of disgrace, an unprecedented disgrace. The faux piety of these toadying serfs called GOP Congressmen should mortify all Americans.

A democracy requires both sides to understand that one side loses when it gets fewer votes. Republicans no longer believe in this bedrock value. A disgrace. TANATS.

If objecting at the congressional level to election results (over clear constitutional rules) is now endorsed by the republicans, how long do we think it will take before the Dems catch on and federalize elections (security!!) and eliminate the Electoral College.

I am no fan of the electoral college, but ill-considered gestures have unforeseen consequences.

[RedFromMI]

Where has this Mitch been for the last 4 years?

He is trying to get the Ds to agree to a power arrangement like that from the past when the Ds have the tie breaking vote.

It is still all about power. Absent that agreement (which provided for equal representation on the committees) the Rs have no control outside of convincing one or more Ds to break with their party.

[a fan]

If objecting at the congressional level to election results (over clear constitutional rules) is now endorsed by the republicans, how long do we think it will take before the Dems catch on and federalize elections (security!!) and eliminate the Electoral College.

I am no fan of the electoral college, but ill-considered gestures have unforeseen consequences.

Yep. Been saying this since Trump took office. Republican voters and leaders are counting on the fact that Dems aren't as corrupt and ethically bankrupt as Republicans.

I'm going to laugh my *ss off if they find out they hard way that they're wrong.

[Matnum PI]

MCCONNELL: "Nothing before us proves illegality anywhere near the massive scale, the massive scale, that would've tipped the entire election. Nor can public doubt alone justify a radical break when the doubt itself was incited without any evidence"

[seacoaster]

But Democrats in Congress have protested every Republican presidential election for the past 20 years, without the media accusing them of attacking democracy itself.

Right. You're REALLY going to pretend that what Trump and the R's are doing is the same thing as a pointless floor protest vote...that no one notices or cares about---- AFTER Hillary and Gore conceded?

Come on.

Beat me to it. Kramer is full of...baloney, and wants to hold fast to this notion that TAATS. Not now, not on these issues. The GOP is a special kind of disgrace, an unprecedented disgrace. The faux piety of these toadying serfs called GOP Congressmen should mortify all Americans.

A democracy requires both sides to understand that one side loses when it gets fewer votes. Republicans no longer believe in this bedrock value. A disgrace. TANATS.

If objecting at the congressional level to election results (over clear constitutional rules) is now endorsed by the republicans, how long do we think it will take before the Dems catch on and federalize elections (security!!) and eliminate the Electoral College.

I am no fan of the electoral college, but ill-considered gestures have unforeseen consequences.

There was an article about this very issue -- which I'll try to find -- written by an erstwhile Republican, suggesting that the end of the EC could be one result of this is Republicans aren't careful.

[seacoaster]

Yep; this is what I was thinking of anyway. Here you go:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... publicans/

Ken Buck, a Republican, represents Colorado’s 4th Congressional District in the U.S. House of Representatives and serves on the House Judiciary Committee.

"Democrats in Congress wrote the playbook for how to dispute an election’s outcome. Republican members of Congress may soon regret that they have adopted not only the rhetoric but the actual tactics from that playbook in their attempt to reject the 2020 election results.

I share the concerns of many voters across the country about irregularities in the presidential election. I also share their disappointment with President Trump’s loss. However, the Founders trusted the states to decide elections, not members of Congress.

The Republican members who plan to reject certain electors read into the Constitution and the Electoral Count Act a provision that simply does not exist. The 12th Amendment is simple and clear: It calls on Congress to perform the ceremonial role of counting electors. There is no allowance for rejecting electors — no matter how much we may disagree with the result or wish the election process had been better.

The electoral college has come under attack in recent years. The left characterizes the system as an antiquated, undemocratic method of selecting the president. In reality, our nation’s Founders designed this system as a compromise that takes into account a variety of competing concerns. The electoral college balanced a desire to allow individuals across the nation to vote for president while also ensuring that small states’ voters would not be ignored.

The system is complex and often requires explanation. On Capitol Hill, it is usually my Democratic colleagues who need reminders of the electoral college’s vital role in preserving our system of federalism. This week, however, it is Republican members of Congress who require a refresher course about why the electoral college must be preserved — and why we should avoid the temptation of using this system in a misguided effort to jettison a presidential election.

For decades, progressives have tried to abolish the electoral college in favor of a direct democracy approach; under their plan, votes would be cast in a national election, bypassing electors and the states. They have pushed populist initiatives, most notably the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, to do away with the electoral college without even having to go through the inconvenience of a constitutional amendment. This interstate compact directs participating states to cast their electoral votes for the presidential candidate with the highest number of votes nationwide — regardless of the choice of the voters in their own states.

The current ploy by my Republican colleagues, to challenge the electors in one or more states, threatens the future of the electoral college. It lends credence to opponents’ arguments that this system overrides votes and tramples on the will of voters.

The path that led to this episode began with Trump’s victory in 2016. Progressives did everything they could to undermine his policy initiatives, and even impeached him.

Emotions run high in this partisan environment, and given everything our president has unfairly endured, it is easy to understand why so many of his supporters think the election may have been stolen. But the choice before us now is to accept the results of the November election, or to object and undermine not only the president but also the institutions that define us as a free people.

The electoral college is a safeguard on our system of federalism and individual liberty — not an invitation to do an end-run around election results."

[Farfromgeneva]

Without Trump on the ballot in 2018, the GA gov race was 50R/49D.

Yup, nip and tuck...

My hope is that the Dems win these two and can get some important stuff done on election reform, get a strong stimulus package done focused on infrastructure/green led, get some judges through, no big fights on Cabinet, etc.

It's unlikely they'll swing too far as Senators like Manchin will be able to create sufficient friction, plus Joe just isn't a lefty...but if they do swing too far somehow, the voters can have their say in 2 and 4 years.

Looks like the Abrams organization had the impact some of us were predicting, whereas the turmoil caused by Trump only weakened the GOP in Georgia down the stretch. I know that farfromgeneva didn't think we should rush to "deify" Abrams, but it sure looks like all that organizing and discipline paid off on that side of the ledger.

Feels like the Loeffler announcement that she'd vote against acceptance of the Georgia results for President as Trump was due to speak in Georgia cost her relative to Perdue, though it may simply be that Warnock was a stronger candidate relative to Loeffler than Ossoff to Perdue. 33 year old Jewish liberal up against former Governor, Georgia GOP royalty, tougher comparison than soft spoken, but powerfully Christian-minded, black minister versus rich Trumpist woman?

When Ossoff tore up Perdue in the debate and then Perdue refused to show up to the scheduled debate, that was enough for me...and then Perdue refused to debate in the run-off period? Deserved to lose, IMO.

There’s just a ton of other variables at work here in GA. Abrams gets more national attention than she does locally. You have two decades of net migration into the state (specifically Atlanta MSA), the general metropolization of atlanta (which has burned multiple time and most of the city is less than 60yrs old) and other factors.

Abrams is a nice, single issue, local activist. Nothing more. Doesn’t have the metaphysical grasp or talent of Obama before anyone might think in response to the local activist comment of comparing the two. Said that before, good person doing good work, but ascribing her as the reason for the outcomes is like explaining the reason the stock market has a large move on a given day. It’s a lot of narrative fallacy. I think Trump, Loeffler and Perdue did more to lose the middle in what is still a right leaning state (look at the map, more concentrated than the country map, blue in Atl, Savannah, Macon and maybe Albany area and the entire balance of the state, which is mostly rural, sparsely populated and a little behind the times, is red) than Abrams did by getting some marginal inclusion in this particular election year.

I was also correct that Loeffler had an easier challenge from Ossof than Perdue did with Warnock. Loeffler burned herself with many moderate republicans by going all in on trump, which Kemp quietly accepted tactically and incorrectly, but there’s a lot of Cobb Co and N Fulton, Forsyth Co (Suburbs north of Atlanta) more center republicans who didn’t like her disloyalty to Kemp in order to stay on the Trump tip during this runoff period. Had lunch yesterday with a friend who’s got Kemp on speed dial and been part of the suburban Atlanta republican scene for a while (soft spoken, true good guy from Pittsburg orig, didn’t vote for trump this time, voted for the libertarian candidate this time even though he didn’t know that persons name) and he was disappointed while acknowledging she thought she needed to placate that crowd to win, incorrectly, but I could see in his expressions he didn’t like how she approached it one bit. He was already exhausted with it all and just wanted his (my) party to figure it out but was telling me how Raffensberger was just this bookish local council person who didn’t even want to be in any spotlight ever but just serve his community.

(BTW, it’s David’s cousin Sonny who was gov, but same old money family from the Macon area-David was a Mgt consultant and then Corp Mgt for reeebok, a failed tire co in NC and then ran Dollar General, before Congress)

[ggait]

Where has this Mitch been for the last 4 years?

Hiding behind the steady, ever loathsome Ted. Cruz cites polling, created by relentless GOP and Trumpist messaging. Disgusting.

Same old Mitch actually.

He jumped on the Trump Train and embraced it bigly. Look at all those judges! What -- you think Mitch is dumb enough to wind up like, say, Paul Ryan. Paul who?

Mitch is just hopping off at this very late date because the Trump Train (but not Trumpism) is now heading into the ditch and is no longer useful to him.

Trump/McConnell was a completely transactional relationship. Question is who used who? Seems to me like McConnell played Trump more than the reverse.

[RedFromMI]

Actually eliminating the EC might make it difficult for the Rs as currently configured from winning the presidency, but since they basically are a regional minority party it would force them to actually be more representative to the broader constituency of America.

In the long run that would be good for the country.

[Matnum PI]

Patton Oswalt@pattonoswalt
23 mins ago
Oh god the #MAGAs are storming the Capitol. I’m genuinely worried — that’s a lot of steps to walk up. Their knees and calves must be SCREAMING.

[jhu72]

But Democrats in Congress have protested every Republican presidential election for the past 20 years, without the media accusing them of attacking democracy itself.

Right. You're REALLY going to pretend that what Trump and the R's are doing is the same thing as a pointless floor protest vote...that no one notices or cares about---- AFTER Hillary and Gore conceded?

Come on.

,,, of course that is what he is doing. There has been no similar event. Riots outside the Capital Building (and perhaps inside).

[RedFromMI]

Capitol is now on lockdown due to Trumpist rioting (which has also included a bomb threat), and people inside are warned to stay away from windows.

Just a normal day for the Trump presidency...

[Farfromgeneva]

No news on where the outstanding votes are coming from.

Hopefully from voters....

Who cares about those votes.

Whoever gets the lead first wins. We all know that's the rule.

And an attempted coup is no big deal if it fails. I mean an unsuccessful murder or bank robbery isn't a crime, right?

Can we have this rule in lacrosse retroactive to many blown leads Hobart has surrender in Q4 to top10 teams in the past two decades?

[jhu72]

Capitol is now on lockdown due to Trumpist rioting (which has also included a bomb threat), and people inside are warned to stay away from windows.

Just a normal day for the Trump presidency...

MAGA

Sure is nice to be great again.