Johns Hopkins 2023

[jhu06]

How often do fired coaches return? Give me a list of some recent examples to show that a situation like this is very realistic.

I pay zero attention to assistant coaches in D1 lacrosse, so I couldn't give you an answer.

Seems pretty clear to me that the AD was simply cleaning house for a fresh start at Hopkins, rather than evaluating each assistant coach before pulling the trigger.

And it would seem that John Tillman would agree with this view.

All just off season ramblings.....best of luck this year!

The most precious commodity in the rebuild arguably was "Time". PM has now had some. These next 8 months should be the sweet spot where the descent of the last decade plus starts to turn around. We'll see.

[MDlaxfan76]

How often do fired coaches return? Give me a list of some recent examples to show that a situation like this is very realistic.

I pay zero attention to assistant coaches in D1 lacrosse, so I couldn't give you an answer.

Seems pretty clear to me that the AD was simply cleaning house for a fresh start at Hopkins, rather than evaluating each assistant coach before pulling the trigger.

And it would seem that John Tillman would agree with this view.

All just off season ramblings.....best of luck this year!

The most precious commodity in the rebuild arguably was "Time". PM has now had some. These next 8 months should be the sweet spot where the descent of the last decade plus starts to turn around. We'll see.

I'd give it longer given Covid disruption.
But sure, there could be some signs this year...I'd think another full cycle of 2 years of recruiting will be needed, though.

[another fan]

I don't know the "proper" time to allow a new coach to turn around a program. Somebody has already mentioned the Andy Shay grace period at Yale. I also know that some Georgetown fans were advocating pulling the plug on Kevin Warne, which would have been a mistake with the advantages of hindsight. I'm not going to research Warne's grace period, but I believe he also was given a longer runway than some Hopkins fans think is reasonable for PM.

[Sagittarius A*]

I don't know the "proper" time to allow a new coach to turn around a program. Somebody has already mentioned the Andy Shay grace period at Yale. I also know that some Georgetown fans were advocating pulling the plug on Kevin Warne, which would have been a mistake with the advantages of hindsight. I'm not going to research Warne's grace period, but I believe he also was given a longer runway than some Hopkins fans think is reasonable for PM.

I think PM should get the exact same runway that he gave Junior.

[jhu06]

I don't know the "proper" time to allow a new coach to turn around a program. Somebody has already mentioned the Andy Shay grace period at Yale. I also know that some Georgetown fans were advocating pulling the plug on Kevin Warne, which would have been a mistake with the advantages of hindsight. I'm not going to research Warne's grace period, but I believe he also was given a longer runway than some Hopkins fans think is reasonable for PM.

Hopkins is not yale or georgetown which aren't even flavors of the half decade. Bama football, kentucky basketball, hopkins lacrosse. This should not need to be explained.

[gymman1031]

I don't know the "proper" time to allow a new coach to turn around a program. Somebody has already mentioned the Andy Shay grace period at Yale. I also know that some Georgetown fans were advocating pulling the plug on Kevin Warne, which would have been a mistake with the advantages of hindsight. I'm not going to research Warne's grace period, but I believe he also was given a longer runway than some Hopkins fans think is reasonable for PM.

Hopkins is not yale or georgetown which aren't even flavors of the half decade. Bama football, kentucky basketball, hopkins lacrosse. This should not need to be explained.

Yes. The thing is, Bama Football and Kentucky Basketball are definitely easier sells in recruiting top players than Hopkins Lacrosse is.

[a fan]

I don't know the "proper" time to allow a new coach to turn around a program. Somebody has already mentioned the Andy Shay grace period at Yale. I also know that some Georgetown fans were advocating pulling the plug on Kevin Warne, which would have been a mistake with the advantages of hindsight. I'm not going to research Warne's grace period, but I believe he also was given a longer runway than some Hopkins fans think is reasonable for PM.

If you look at most successful programs that didn't start as a FF-bound program? You need a decade. Brecht, Tambroni, Warne, Shay....all right around ten years to make noise in the NCAA's.

Edit to add.....Tierney did it in two years at Denver.

[gymman1031]

I don't know the "proper" time to allow a new coach to turn around a program. Somebody has already mentioned the Andy Shay grace period at Yale. I also know that some Georgetown fans were advocating pulling the plug on Kevin Warne, which would have been a mistake with the advantages of hindsight. I'm not going to research Warne's grace period, but I believe he also was given a longer runway than some Hopkins fans think is reasonable for PM.

If you look at most successful programs that didn't start as a FF-bound program? You need a decade. Brecht, Tambroni, Warne, Shay....all right around ten years to make noise in the NCAA's.

Edit to add.....Tierney did it in two years at Denver.

Let's hope this will apply, and maybe even sooner than ten years, for our guy Conry at Michigan. Also, Warne's breakthrough season was in year number six for him.

[another fan]

I don't know the "proper" time to allow a new coach to turn around a program. Somebody has already mentioned the Andy Shay grace period at Yale. I also know that some Georgetown fans were advocating pulling the plug on Kevin Warne, which would have been a mistake with the advantages of hindsight. I'm not going to research Warne's grace period, but I believe he also was given a longer runway than some Hopkins fans think is reasonable for PM.

Hopkins is not yale or georgetown which aren't even flavors of the half decade. Bama football, kentucky basketball, hopkins lacrosse. This should not need to be explained.

Perhaps there was once a time when it was reasonable to expect a Hopkins coach to turn the program around far faster simply because you are Hopkins, but I believe that time has passed. No offense to the school, which is great, or the program which has been historically great and can be excellent again.

[OCanada]

MDlax

A team has to work within the parameters it is given. Cordish et al raised the funding for an indoor lax facility the staff wanted. After it was fully funded it was not brought to fruition. Like the improvements to the swimming facilities. Dormant.

Phil Knight aka “uncle Phil “ at the U of O wanted a new arena for BB. A major hurdle was location. A site was located off campus, acquired and developed and they got their new arena. Joe Tsai has that kind of potential.

Loyola wanted a stadium. They did not have a location so they found one, had it developed and leased it for I think 99 years.

Without knowing the conditions of the MB gift it is difficult to know its potential. Is it it unrestricted or unrestricted? For example are there academic qualification requirements or can a student qualify if they are a lax player with less than top tier academics. I don’t know the answer.

It is not just a question of cost with the Ivies. There are still intangibles like the Alumni Directory, work requirements, coaches etc. Our daughter was recruited by a number of Ivies. Post grad the alumni directories are strong. For a long time Hopkins students were not funneling into professions that created vast wealth. It is a work in progress and we are catching up but a way to go yet. Bill Tierney was highly successful working within the ivy criteria and won a number of recruiting battles Hopkins that went down the o the wire. It has been a few years since i paid much attention to some of these issues so anachronisms may show up.

I was told a few lax grads of age had or were moving. One I have known for many years. I regret not double checking on others.

[BlueJaySince1947]

I'm reluctant to interrupt this long train of chatter but who are the Jays scrimmaging tomorrow ?
An old geezer wants to know...

[Old Lax Fan]

I'm reluctant to interrupt this long train of chatter but who are the Jays scrimmaging tomorrow ?
An old geezer wants to know...

10 am – Johns Hopkins vs. Fairfield
11:30 am – Fairfield vs. UMBC
1 pm – Johns Hopkins vs. UMBC

https://hopkinssports.com/news/2022/9/2 ... ebook.aspx

[a fan]

I don't know the "proper" time to allow a new coach to turn around a program. Somebody has already mentioned the Andy Shay grace period at Yale. I also know that some Georgetown fans were advocating pulling the plug on Kevin Warne, which would have been a mistake with the advantages of hindsight. I'm not going to research Warne's grace period, but I believe he also was given a longer runway than some Hopkins fans think is reasonable for PM.

If you look at most successful programs that didn't start as a FF-bound program? You need a decade. Brecht, Tambroni, Warne, Shay....all right around ten years to make noise in the NCAA's.

Edit to add.....Tierney did it in two years at Denver.

Let's hope this will apply, and maybe even sooner than ten years, for our guy Conry at Michigan. Also, Warne's breakthrough season was in year number six for him.

Personally, I define a breakthrough as winning a NCAA playoff game in the post AQ era.

[jhu06]

MDlax

A team has to work within the parameters it is given. Cordish et al raised the funding for an indoor lax facility the staff wanted. After it was fully funded it was not brought to fruition. Like the improvements to the swimming facilities. Dormant.

Phil Knight aka “uncle Phil “ at the U of O wanted a new arena for BB. A major hurdle was location. A site was located off campus, acquired and developed and they got their new arena. Joe Tsai has that kind of potential.

Loyola wanted a stadium. They did not have a location so they found one, had it developed and leased it for I think 99 years.

Without knowing the conditions of the MB gift it is difficult to know its potential. Is it it unrestricted or unrestricted? For example are there academic qualification requirements or can a student qualify if they are a lax player with less than top tier academics. I don’t know the answer.

It is not just a question of cost with the Ivies. There are still intangibles like the Alumni Directory, work requirements, coaches etc. Our daughter was recruited by a number of Ivies. Post grad the alumni directories are strong. For a long time Hopkins students were not funneling into professions that created vast wealth. It is a work in progress and we are catching up but a way to go yet. Bill Tierney was highly successful working within the ivy criteria and won a number of recruiting battles Hopkins that went down the o the wire. It has been a few years since i paid much attention to some of these issues so anachronisms may show up.

I was told a few lax grads of age had or were moving. One I have known for many years. I regret not double checking on others.

there have been 14 Presidents of Hopkins over 145+years. Only 2, I think, including Daniels haven't had a national championship in mens lax. That includes some who lasted 4-5 years and saw multiple titles and is over parts of 3 centuries. The post grad stuff at Hopkins has always been worse than the ivies and state school networks who do a tremendous job building communities and pipelines. Homewood sends a lot of emails about some guy they grabbed from stanford to help kids land internships etc but when Daniels runs his mouth about how older alumni don't represent his vision of Hopkins it doesn't seem like they're committed to building those connections to help current Jays move forward.

Hoping for good health and progress for the kids tomorrow. Looks like some nice weather.

[Sagittarius A*]

there have been 14 Presidents of Hopkins over 145+years. Only 2, I think, including Daniels haven't had a national championship in mens lax. That includes some who lasted 4-5 years and saw multiple titles and is over parts of 3 centuries. The post grad stuff at Hopkins has always been worse than the ivies and state school networks who do a tremendous job building communities and pipelines. Homewood sends a lot of emails about some guy they grabbed from stanford to help kids land internships etc but when Daniels runs his mouth about how older alumni don't represent his vision of Hopkins it doesn't seem like they're committed to building those connections to help current Jays move forward.

Hoping for good health and progress for the kids tomorrow. Looks like some nice weather.

Well Daniels has certainly done everything he possibly can to throw the Alumni under the bus.
I don't even answer the phone anymore when they call to ask for donations.

[MDlaxfan76]

Sounds like some folks don't like Hopkins becoming a far more competitive undergraduate academic experience?

Seriously, I can commiserate with some of this angst.
When a President at my alma mater said he wanted the College to be more like Harvard, it was clear that he didn't understand what makes Dartmouth special.

Fortunately, he's gone and the College communications are much more about those things that make Dartmouth unique and special and less acclaim for things that might have come from any good school's newsletter...pretty darn amazing, really. Net effect, all positive, including attracting more and more incredible students and faculty....as well as contributions.

It's the balance.

[flalax22]

Could Bobby Benson be dreaming of getting the Hopkins job someday, and, should it open, he will now have head coaching experience on his resume?

Stop

No. My question is very realistic.

Counterpoint: No it isn't

And why is that?

He was effectively fired two years ago? Does this really need explaining?

If Bobby gets off to a good start at Providence, I bet Bobby and Hopkins would be willing to forgive each other.

I’ll take that bet. I don’t think you understand the ugliness and vitriol in the breakup

[flalax22]

I don't know the "proper" time to allow a new coach to turn around a program. Somebody has already mentioned the Andy Shay grace period at Yale. I also know that some Georgetown fans were advocating pulling the plug on Kevin Warne, which would have been a mistake with the advantages of hindsight. I'm not going to research Warne's grace period, but I believe he also was given a longer runway than some Hopkins fans think is reasonable for PM.

I think PM should get the exact same runway that he gave Junior.

ZING

[HopFan16]

Resident Superfan Cornell Willis was streamimg the start of the scrimmage vs. Fairfield. From what I could tell, Degnon, Angelus, and Melendez started on attack with Grimes, Phillips, Bauer, Evans, English, Chauvette, Hawley getting the first runs at midfield. Dunn and Callahan at FO (Narewski not dressed) and Versfeld in goal. Mazzone and Kaufman at LSM. Raposo looks like he is making the switch to SSDM. Bauer scored a goal off a rebound before the stream went dark. Cornell’s hands must have gotten cold.

[HopFan16]

14-6 unofficial final:

https://twitter.com/mattkinnear/status/ ... 5396107264

There are a bunch of videos on the team Instagram. Collison with a couple of nice goals. Maher on the doorstep on a feed from Marquis. Grimes to Melendez for a step down.