2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

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Farfromgeneva
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by Farfromgeneva »

ggait wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:37 pm
Just don't direct the attack at the poster him/herself.
Fan -- that's fine advice. Which I try to follow.

But I don't think that rule applies once someone can't meet even a minimal standard of good faith (i.e. Peter Brown).


I'll give Salty a chance to show he's a different breed of cat.
This is interesting and something I think about in almost all relationships even these artificial online ones. I agree and frankly get frustrated more than I should when I can see I’m confronting someone who’s not acting in good faith when it’s in my own control to walk. Perhaps a small reason I have heart issues in my early 40s while still in better shape than more than half of my age cohort (though was probably too 5-10% until 12-24mo ago).

Obviously the “who defines good faith” is an impossible task to agree upon and it’s like proving intent in someone’s mind which as an attorney I’m sure you deal with whether criminal or civil. Ironically I always felt like the concept of providing the best effort regardless of ones client created an element of bad faith in basically half of all attorneys. But also in the legal world there exists a common man standard that also has been utilized in most aspects of life. So there are clearly baselines. (This is partly why I created the is it dishonest to have multiple handle threads after finally tiring of fattylaxwheatfieldrrrabv8.3 not engaging in good faith ever with me or from what I could tell anyone else in here or formerly LP)

How can we come to agreement amongst at least the vast majority of participants (100% is unreasonable, see PB and Bandito and frankly Doc) on common man standards for good faith discourse? Or is this just me being unrealistically idealistic?
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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dislaxxic
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by dislaxxic »

David Frum, behind the Atlantic paywall:
In a bombshell conversation with Georgia’s secretary of state yesterday, President Donald Trump made monkeys of every Republican official and every conservative talking head who professed to believe Trump’s allegations of voter fraud. The president himself made clear that he had only one end in view: overturning the 2020 election.

You knew this already, of course. Anyone connected to reality knew it. Even most of Trump’s political allies probably knew it. But important incentives induced people in the pro-Trump camp to pretend otherwise. And now, as so often happens, Trump has yanked away the protective deception to reveal the truth.

And now again, Trump presents the country with a crisis and a conundrum.

What Trump did on that call with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, first reported by The Washington Post this afternoon, might well have been a crime. More than that cannot be said until and unless a jury is heard from. But Trump has reason to worry about new juries today, alongside all the other juries he was worrying about yesterday.

The Raffensperger tape shows Trump’s Plan A to stay ahead of the law: election tampering. That plan will reach its finale on January 6—the point of no return, the last minute for stunts and sabotage. A shameful number of Republican members of the House and Senate have signed up for the stunts and sabotage, but not enough to prevent the inevitable outcome of a Biden-Harris inauguration on January 20.

Trump’s thoughts now must turn to a Plan B. Plan B is to protect himself from juries even if he loses office. Plan B points to a self-pardon, and the huge crisis that must ensue.

President-elect Biden has already signaled his high preference not to take legal action against his predecessor. A President Biden could not protect a former President Trump from state criminal actions or civil liability, but he could signal to the Department of Justice that prosecuting a former president for federal crimes would be divisive and distracting, and therefore is to be avoided if at all possible.

But if Trump is unwilling to trust Biden’s forbearance, and chooses to attempt to pardon himself, it would be a direct attack on the whole structure of the rule of law. Nobody knows whether presidential self-pardons are valid. Scholars disagree; courts have never ruled on them, because no past president ever tried such a thing. But a president desperate enough to try to steal an election on a recorded line is desperate enough to try a self-pardon.

If a president can pardon himself as well as his or her subordinates, a president can order any crime, or commit it himself, with absolute impunity. The very notion of a self-pardon is radically inconsistent with democratic accountability. If Trump tries to pardon himself, his successors must fight his attempt all the way to the Supreme Court. And given the Raffensperger recording, who doubts that Trump will try it?


The sensible American majority surely wants an end to Trump controversies after Inauguration Day, a return to normal governance and the crucial work ahead: overcoming the pandemic, restoring the economy, and renewing U.S. leadership of the world. But Trump gets a say too, as he got a say in the impeachment crisis. Trump is abusing the power of the presidency until his last hour in office. And his nonstop abuse seems likely to force a reckoning even by those most eager to move on. Trump will not be ignored; he will not let the chapter quietly close. Show him a red line, and he will cross it. And if the country’s red lines are to be reestablished, Trump will have to face the law he violated and violated and violated again.
..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
seacoaster
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by seacoaster »

dislaxxic wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:13 pm David Frum, behind the Atlantic paywall:
In a bombshell conversation with Georgia’s secretary of state yesterday, President Donald Trump made monkeys of every Republican official and every conservative talking head who professed to believe Trump’s allegations of voter fraud. The president himself made clear that he had only one end in view: overturning the 2020 election.

You knew this already, of course. Anyone connected to reality knew it. Even most of Trump’s political allies probably knew it. But important incentives induced people in the pro-Trump camp to pretend otherwise. And now, as so often happens, Trump has yanked away the protective deception to reveal the truth.

And now again, Trump presents the country with a crisis and a conundrum.

What Trump did on that call with Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, first reported by The Washington Post this afternoon, might well have been a crime. More than that cannot be said until and unless a jury is heard from. But Trump has reason to worry about new juries today, alongside all the other juries he was worrying about yesterday.

The Raffensperger tape shows Trump’s Plan A to stay ahead of the law: election tampering. That plan will reach its finale on January 6—the point of no return, the last minute for stunts and sabotage. A shameful number of Republican members of the House and Senate have signed up for the stunts and sabotage, but not enough to prevent the inevitable outcome of a Biden-Harris inauguration on January 20.

Trump’s thoughts now must turn to a Plan B. Plan B is to protect himself from juries even if he loses office. Plan B points to a self-pardon, and the huge crisis that must ensue.

President-elect Biden has already signaled his high preference not to take legal action against his predecessor. A President Biden could not protect a former President Trump from state criminal actions or civil liability, but he could signal to the Department of Justice that prosecuting a former president for federal crimes would be divisive and distracting, and therefore is to be avoided if at all possible.

But if Trump is unwilling to trust Biden’s forbearance, and chooses to attempt to pardon himself, it would be a direct attack on the whole structure of the rule of law. Nobody knows whether presidential self-pardons are valid. Scholars disagree; courts have never ruled on them, because no past president ever tried such a thing. But a president desperate enough to try to steal an election on a recorded line is desperate enough to try a self-pardon.

If a president can pardon himself as well as his or her subordinates, a president can order any crime, or commit it himself, with absolute impunity. The very notion of a self-pardon is radically inconsistent with democratic accountability. If Trump tries to pardon himself, his successors must fight his attempt all the way to the Supreme Court. And given the Raffensperger recording, who doubts that Trump will try it?


The sensible American majority surely wants an end to Trump controversies after Inauguration Day, a return to normal governance and the crucial work ahead: overcoming the pandemic, restoring the economy, and renewing U.S. leadership of the world. But Trump gets a say too, as he got a say in the impeachment crisis. Trump is abusing the power of the presidency until his last hour in office. And his nonstop abuse seems likely to force a reckoning even by those most eager to move on. Trump will not be ignored; he will not let the chapter quietly close. Show him a red line, and he will cross it. And if the country’s red lines are to be reestablished, Trump will have to face the law he violated and violated and violated again.
..
"You knew this already, of course. Anyone connected to reality knew it."

Boy, Schiff's opinion of Trump, delivered to the Senate a year ago now, sure looks pretty on the money.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by Typical Lax Dad »



MAGA
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ggait
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by ggait »

So the WH called Raffensburger 18 times before Brad relented and talked to Trump/Gotti.

Nunes and Gym Jordan get awards for their heroism in the war against the Deep State.

God knows what other cray Trump is going to pull before he turns it fully up to 11 with a self-pardon on 1-19.

Joe's legacy is already assured -- he terminated the worst POTUS evuh.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
seacoaster
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by seacoaster »

Obviously, the "TDS" is strong in Neal:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/04/opin ... ticleShare

"The emergence of an audio recording of President Trump pressuring the Georgia secretary of state to overturn the results of the election is a harrowing moment in the history of our democracy. And though the number of his days in office is dwindling, the only appropriate response is to impeach Mr. Trump. Again.

Whether he acknowledges it or not, President Trump is leaving the White House on Jan. 20 — but right now, there is nothing stopping him from running in 2024. That is a terrifying prospect, because the way he has conducted himself over the past two months, wielding the power of the presidency to try to steal another term in office, has threatened one of our republic’s most essential traditions: the peaceful transfer of power.

Fortunately, our founders anticipated we would face a moment like this, which is one reason Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution entrusts Congress with the power not only to remove a president but also to prevent him or her from ever holding elected office again. Mr. Trump’s conduct over the past two months has left our legislators with no choice but to use it. That impeachment inquiry would take time, far more than Mr. Trump has left in office. But it would be well worth it.

Since the election was called in favor of President-elect Joe Biden, Mr. Trump has been relentlessly fomenting doubts about its legitimacy — even as many federal and state courts, including ones whose judges were appointed by Mr. Trump himself, have ruled against his claims. He has reportedly inquired about the idea of enlisting the help of the military to keep him in power.

Most recently, on the phone with Brad Raffensperger, Georgia’s secretary of state, he said, “I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have.” He added: “We won this state,” even though he didn’t. In a democracy, you don’t find votes. You count them. Most strikingly, Mr. Trump threatened the Georgia officials with criminal prosecution if they didn’t comply, saying leaving the vote counts intact would be a “big risk.”

This kind of threat may sound familiar, because an eerily similar abuse of power led to Mr. Trump’s impeachment just over a year ago. Senator Susan Collins of Maine explained her vote to acquit him by saying she thought he had learned “a pretty big lesson.” Clearly, Mr. Trump learned a different lesson — that he was above the law. It’s just as William Davie from North Carolina, discussing the position of the presidency at the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia, predicted: A president who viewed himself to be unimpeachable, he said in 1787, would “spare no efforts or means whatever to get himself re-elected.”

It’s time for Congress, once and for all, to put an end to this.

No one wants to put the country through the turmoil of another impeachment. But we also can’t afford to look the other way — for several reasons.

For one, we must establish a precedent that a president who tries to cheat his way to re-election will be held accountable. Sure, this attempt may not have succeeded, but a failed coup should itself be alarming enough. And who is to say there won’t be a closer election in the future, with a more competent authoritarian candidate — whose party also has control of the House of Representatives? We need to make sure that Congress has ensured that candidates cannot strong-arm their way into re-election.

We also need to set a precedent that a lame duck president can still be held accountable. If an incumbent, say, threatened to nuke Iran unless the Electoral College sided with him, we would want to have a mechanism by which we could remove him from office. In our Constitution, impeachment is that mechanism, but it is worthless if we never use it.

And last, we cannot risk Mr. Trump’s becoming president again — or for that matter, even running again with a chance of winning. This isn’t a point about ideology; it’s a reflection of the fact that our system may not be able to withstand this lawless man returning to the highest office in the land. Emboldened by our failure to hold him accountable for abusing his power in his first term, who knows what he would do in a nonconsecutive second term? The damage to our institutions from his first four years in office will take generations to undo. Our democracy might not be able to handle another four.

Senator Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, was able to protect Mr. Trump the last time — no doubt because he was afraid of what a truly rigorous trial might show. But he may no longer be able to do so. For one thing, Mr. Trump will soon lack the power of the presidency to dole out favors and punish his enemies. For another, the Senate composition will be different. Already, Democrats have flipped seats in Arizona and Colorado. Republicans who voted to acquit him, like Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania, have shown signs they are finally willing to stand up to him.

And Georgians will go to the polls to decide who will represent them in the Senate. Mr. Trump’s preferred senators, Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue, would no doubt try to block an inquiry into his misdeeds. But if these senators lose their seats, a full and robust inquiry in the Senate could be the result, with Chuck Schumer as majority leader.

In 2008, a young member of the Judiciary Committee said, “The business of high crimes and misdemeanors goes to the question of whether or not the person serving as president of the United States put their own interests, their personal interests, ahead of public service.” That congressman’s name was Mike Pence — and he was exactly right.

We need to convict President Trump and make sure he can never call the White House home again
."

Neal Katyal (@neal_katyal), a law professor at Georgetown and a former acting solicitor general of the United States, and Sam Koppelman (@SammyKoppelman), a principal at Fenway Strategies, are the authors of “Impeach: The Case Against Donald Trump.”
ggait
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by ggait »

Don't underestimate Hawley. He's no dummy nor bomb thrower. He clerked for John Roberts, was a successful AG, was encouraged to run for the Senate by John Ashcroft, Kit Bond & Jack Danforth.
Actually Salty, former Senator Danforth said today that his protege Hawley is in fact an arsonist:

ST. LOUIS — Former U.S. Sen. John Danforth on Monday slammed Sen. Josh Hawley’s plan to raise objections to the certification of the 2020 presidential election results affirming President-elect Joe Biden’s victory.

“Lending credence to Trump’s false claim that the election was stolen is a highly destructive attack on our constitutional government,” Danforth said in a written statement issued Monday.

“It is the opposite of conservative; it is radical. As one friend asked me, ‘What are my grandchildren to think of America if they are told that elections are fraudulent?’”

Danforth said he had been asked by several people to comment on Hawley’s challenge to vote of the Electoral College because of his past support for Hawley’s election to the U.S. Senate. His statement criticizing his one-time protégé appears to underscore the growing rift among Republicans, as populists allied with Trump continue to contest the election results.

“At a time of extreme polarization the populist strategy is to drive America even farther apart by promoting conspiracy theories and stoking grievances,” Danforth said. “We must reject this strategy and reclaim America’s historic purpose of holding our diverse nation together as one people.”


Buyer's remorse for Danforth. Can only imagine what John Roberts thinks of his former clerk today.

But who cares -- Danforth and Roberts are such RINOs.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
a fan
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by a fan »

ggait wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:27 pm
“It is the opposite of conservative; it is radical. As one friend asked me, ‘What are my grandchildren to think of America if they are told that elections are fraudulent?’”
Oh, that's not the whole story. You have to tell your grandchildren that all the hundreds of elections we held in America are 100% valid. Only one single election between Trump and Biden is fraudulent. And only in the States where Trump lost.

When they hear this, the grandkids are going to say "mother of G*D, I had no f*cking idea that my grandparents were this f*cking stupid.
ggait
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by ggait »

Rep. Chip Roy (TX GOP), who opposes objections to the Electoral College, today challenged the seating of 67 reps-elect from Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

"It would confound basic human reason if the presidential results were to face objection while the congressional results from the same election escaped without public scrutiny.”

Rep. Roy and Sen. Cornyn are head/shoulders above the other dreck from Texas (Cruz, Gohmert, one-box Abbott). Doing their jobs, using their brains, following the Constitution, country over party.

Making all Wahoos proud.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
njbill
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by njbill »

ggait wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:30 pm Joe's legacy is already assured -- he terminated the worst POTUS evuh.
👍

He has rid the country of the most dangerous person to American democracy in history.
seacoaster
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by seacoaster »

Nice essay:

https://thebulwark.com/in-praise-of-tho ... emptation/

"he greatest, most dangerous, and most frequent temptation faced by an elected official is the temptation to tell your constituents what they want to hear. It is our Satan’s apple.

Telling people what they want to hear is the enemy of progress, because there is no progress without truth. But despite the obvious drawbacks, the temptation is strong; it’s part of human nature. Most regular people spend their entire lives trying to avoid being the bearer of even mildly disappointing news. Elected officials are human beings too, with the same desire for such avoidance.

About 15 years ago I began delivering public speeches, first as an aide to an elected official and later as an elected official myself. Whenever we reached the Q&A portion, I was faced with this dilemma that has vexed every elected American since George Washington.

In addition to easy questions, constituents would invariably make statements that were false. Or offer suggestions that were either illegal, impossible to fund, or politically unpopular.

I had observed my contemporaries in similar situations and had grown used to a response that seemed to enjoy almost universal usage: some version of We’ll take a look at that.

The constituent would leave the encounter pleased, but I could never shake the feeling that a time bomb had been planted. Because that standard response was actually a comforting lie. The truth had been avoided, at least for the moment. But the truth usually comes out in the end.

One day, the constituent would realize that their idea wasn’t going anywhere and they would be even more disappointed since their expectations had been raised. Additionally, they would be unenlightened by any explanation of why their idea was a nonstarter. For their emotional protection—and in turn the political protection of the elected official—they had been sheltered from the truth.

I began to believe this phenomenon lay at the center of public disappointment in government.

That serial accommodation had corroded public trust.

These considerations—as well as a lifelong affliction of truthfulness—forced me down a different path.

I began trying out variations of an alternative response. Depending on the situation, when faced with a statement that reflected false information, or a suggestion that I knew would never happen, I would methodically present the truth. I would explain why the statement was false, or why the idea was illegal, or why there was no funding for it, or that it was outside the political mainstream and would probably not go anywhere as a result.

I committed to this approach despite its obvious short-term pain, and my commitment was slowly rewarded. Over time, I honed the craft and I would later get positive feedback from people who were at first alienated by my responses, but ultimately discovered that hearing what they needed to hear was better than hearing what they wanted to hear.

Today, I consider this approach one of my central governing principles. But it was hard work and it was not the easy path. It’s still hard.

The temptation to tell people what they want to hear has been on my mind in recent days, because we have seen some of our nation’s highest-ranking elected officials struggle mightily with it—at the same time that we’ve seen several state and local officials meet the moment and overcome the temptation.

Here is the truth: President Donald Trump did not win the 2020 election. It wasn’t even particularly close. I’m 41 years old, and depending how you gauge the closeness of an election, there are up to five presidential elections in my lifetime that were closer than this one. No local, state, or federal agency tasked with guarding the security of our election process has found systematic or widespread fraud. There have been so many court cases I have lost count, but none of them have gone anywhere.

The 74 million people who voted for President Trump are understandably disappointed that he lost. Some of them are extremely disappointed. For them, nothing would be more pleasing than to hear that he didn’t really lose. That, however, is a comforting lie.

And right now these comforting lies are threatening the very essence of American life: the idea that we vote and through that vote collectively choose our destiny as a people.

The American people chose President-elect Joe Biden, which means that the only way for President Trump to stay in office after January 20 is to overthrow the greatest and most durable democratic republic in existence.

You would think that risk would be enough to help elected officials resist the great temptation.

But that temptation is powerful and some are biting the apple, most notably in Congress. Scores of Republican members of Congress have announced that rather than publicly state their acceptance of obvious truth, they will tell constituents who voted for Trump what they want to hear.

They plan to tell them, We’ll take a look at that.

These officials offer a variety of rationales for their decision, but the joint statement from a group of Republicans senators expressed the power of the temptation quite plainly.

The senators did not present evidence of any widespread fraud, they merely cited “allegations” that are “widespread,” and then offered polling numbers as evidence of voter distrust. When I read that statement, I didn’t see a grand conspiracy. I saw me, standing in front of a Rotary club in 2006, wondering how I was going to respond to the constituent suggesting that we spend $100 billion to rebuild every street in our city with concrete.

The statements in Congress this week struck me as the worst manifestation I have ever seen of the politician’s great temptation.

What makes it so bad is that the stakes are so high, because we have reached the edge of a cliff where the only way to continue avoiding the truth is to overthrow our system of government.

In contrast, we have also seen a series of elected (and appointed) officials walking the more difficult path of truth—almost exclusively at the state and local levels. They have been quiet heroes, standing for our republic and our way of life.

Georgia’s secretary of State is an elected official. I’m not a student of Georgia politics, but I think it’s safe to assume his role is pretty thankless. The reality of our system is that the vast majority of elected positions—and they number in the tens of thousands—entail no glamour or public profile. Our whole experiment in self-governance depends on a legion of people doing what they’re supposed to do—quietly and thanklessly—while resisting the elected official’s greatest temptation.

I’ll probably struggle to remember Secretary Brad Raffensperger’s name two weeks from now, but he has demonstrated the intestinal fortitude lacking in some elected officials with much fancier titles and much higher profiles. And our republic will still exist on January 7, January 21, and hopefully for decades to come because of people like him around the country who have played their unpleasant, but necessary, roles in this process.

I suspect most of these people would probably tell you they’re just doing their jobs. But the reality is that their jobs are hard. And their jobs are subject to a great temptation. Yet rather than telling people what they want to hear, these public servants told people what they needed to hear, including the most powerful person in the world.

It appears right now that a majority of Congress will join the ranks of these patriots later this week. Yes, some in Congress will not, and they will likely be remembered for giving in to temptation. But many, many more have stood up for truth and resisted the temptations of comforting lies.

These American heroes are preserving our way of life. They deserve our praise and our gratitude."
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old salt
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:28 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:50 am
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:25 am
old salt wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:17 am
ggait wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:26 am At least these 7 conservative GOP congressfolk have a bit of a clue:

From a purely partisan perspective, Republican presidential candidates have won the national popular vote only once in the last 32 years. They have therefore depended on the electoral college for nearly all presidential victories in the last generation. If we perpetuate the notion that Congress may disregard certified electoral votes—based solely on its own assessment that one or more states mishandled the presidential election—we will be delegitimizing the very system that led Donald Trump to victory in 2016, and that could provide the only path to victory in 2024.

Word.

Doofuses like Salty, Hawley, Cruz and the 140 member House dumb-ass caucus need to think before speaking. States rights and the Electoral College are things that benefit the...wait for it...GOP. Wait, what?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5324 ... -challenge
I agree with this part of their letter :
The elections held in at least six battleground states raise profound questions, and it is a legal, constitutional, and moral imperative that they be answered.
That's what is being done. Otherwise, it will be swept under the rug.
Such baloney. You reached the sad phase of your partisan episode.
Why are these republicans still sticking up for trump? They look like a complete bunch of idiots. This trump call to the SoS of Georgia was the most pathetic thing I have heard in a very long time. Go away trump, just go away, go play golf or something. The sad part is that this weed is now the face of the republican party. trump is making the democrats look brilliant, and that is a tough thing to do. The democrats just have to stand aside and watch trump implode all on his own.
You got it wrong. Schmidlap says it’s all by the book and for the betterment of the country. Trump is trying to save us from junk mail voting.
What Trump is doing is an entirely separate thing from what the objectors in Congress are doing.
They're trying to save the future of the GOP, not save lost cause Trump, who is counterproductive & self-destructing.
They're trying to prevent Trump from dragging the party down with him.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:43 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:28 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:50 am
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:25 am
old salt wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:17 am
ggait wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:26 am At least these 7 conservative GOP congressfolk have a bit of a clue:

From a purely partisan perspective, Republican presidential candidates have won the national popular vote only once in the last 32 years. They have therefore depended on the electoral college for nearly all presidential victories in the last generation. If we perpetuate the notion that Congress may disregard certified electoral votes—based solely on its own assessment that one or more states mishandled the presidential election—we will be delegitimizing the very system that led Donald Trump to victory in 2016, and that could provide the only path to victory in 2024.

Word.

Doofuses like Salty, Hawley, Cruz and the 140 member House dumb-ass caucus need to think before speaking. States rights and the Electoral College are things that benefit the...wait for it...GOP. Wait, what?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5324 ... -challenge
I agree with this part of their letter :
The elections held in at least six battleground states raise profound questions, and it is a legal, constitutional, and moral imperative that they be answered.
That's what is being done. Otherwise, it will be swept under the rug.
Such baloney. You reached the sad phase of your partisan episode.
Why are these republicans still sticking up for trump? They look like a complete bunch of idiots. This trump call to the SoS of Georgia was the most pathetic thing I have heard in a very long time. Go away trump, just go away, go play golf or something. The sad part is that this weed is now the face of the republican party. trump is making the democrats look brilliant, and that is a tough thing to do. The democrats just have to stand aside and watch trump implode all on his own.
You got it wrong. Schmidlap says it’s all by the book and for the betterment of the country. Trump is trying to save us from junk mail voting.
What Trump is doing is an entirely separate thing from what the objectors in Congress are doing.
They're trying to save the future of the GOP, not save lost cause Trump, who is counterproductive & self-destructing.
They're trying to prevent Trump from dragging the party down with him.
Lost Cause... :lol: :lol: Trump gets a statue!
“I wish you would!”
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CU77
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by CU77 »

seacoaster
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by seacoaster »

old salt wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:43 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:28 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:50 am
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:25 am
old salt wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:17 am
ggait wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:26 am At least these 7 conservative GOP congressfolk have a bit of a clue:

From a purely partisan perspective, Republican presidential candidates have won the national popular vote only once in the last 32 years. They have therefore depended on the electoral college for nearly all presidential victories in the last generation. If we perpetuate the notion that Congress may disregard certified electoral votes—based solely on its own assessment that one or more states mishandled the presidential election—we will be delegitimizing the very system that led Donald Trump to victory in 2016, and that could provide the only path to victory in 2024.

Word.

Doofuses like Salty, Hawley, Cruz and the 140 member House dumb-ass caucus need to think before speaking. States rights and the Electoral College are things that benefit the...wait for it...GOP. Wait, what?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5324 ... -challenge
I agree with this part of their letter :
The elections held in at least six battleground states raise profound questions, and it is a legal, constitutional, and moral imperative that they be answered.
That's what is being done. Otherwise, it will be swept under the rug.
Such baloney. You reached the sad phase of your partisan episode.
Why are these republicans still sticking up for trump? They look like a complete bunch of idiots. This trump call to the SoS of Georgia was the most pathetic thing I have heard in a very long time. Go away trump, just go away, go play golf or something. The sad part is that this weed is now the face of the republican party. trump is making the democrats look brilliant, and that is a tough thing to do. The democrats just have to stand aside and watch trump implode all on his own.
You got it wrong. Schmidlap says it’s all by the book and for the betterment of the country. Trump is trying to save us from junk mail voting.
What Trump is doing is an entirely separate thing from what the objectors in Congress are doing.
They're trying to save the future of the GOP, not save lost cause Trump, who is counterproductive & self-destructing.
They're trying to prevent Trump from dragging the party down with him.
Umm, you're crazy.
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old salt
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by old salt »

youthathletics wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:42 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:57 am In don’t think given all the democrats have discussed with respect to rule of law, transparency and democracy of late that he fits in there. He’s a parasite on all of us. His behavior of spending and wealth transfers and retribution I’ve seen in various portions of the Democratic Party for sure but he won the republican primary so if you’re rte actually correct that would mean everyone who ever voted for him is a complete and absolute moron And/or a deceptive, fraudulent, fake Republican.

So you’re saying OS, PB, 6ft, etc are closet democrats? What else are in those closets I wonder?

I don’t think that cohort who voted for him would like the latter though it may very well be true. Seems to me that’s the case.
Trump capitalized at an opportunistic time, think third party. A new aged revolt, fed up with status quo, dead beat, talk out of the side of their neck entrenched politicians. Everyone says your vote counts, and yet, we get the same thing over and over and over. Trump was on to something, but he fudged it up b/c he couldn't shut up. If Trump had cleaned up his decorum early on, acted presidential, he would have won over many more. Instead, he doubled down...and to be frank, I believe his base is shrinking b/c of it.

Back to your question, No, I do not think they are closet democrats, nor am I. There is still the division between the parties on issues, here on fan lax, we tend to shoot the messenger, because we are more worried about getting our two cents and a dig in. If you noticed, those of us that were arguing in the (r) defense (not so much for Trump), were focused on primarily principled issues abroad that have impacted us locally and financially for years/decades.....all things China, The UN, M.E., SK, Climate accord, Southern border. The goal was to shore up our footings, a long overdue physical, we have spread ourselves a bit too thin after a looong war. Notice OS's post recently about agreeing with Jim Webb and the ME?
Bingo! LP readers will recall that I never supported Trump in the primary, nor expected him to be nominated, let alone win. I was hoping the (D)'s would be smart enough to nominate Jim Webb, whom I supported. After Trump was elected, I wanted him to succeed for the good of the country. I supported & defended him when I agreed with his policy or his decisions & I was disgusted by the govt officials who abused their powers to subvert his campaign then try to end his tenure.
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:08 pm
youthathletics wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:42 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:57 am In don’t think given all the democrats have discussed with respect to rule of law, transparency and democracy of late that he fits in there. He’s a parasite on all of us. His behavior of spending and wealth transfers and retribution I’ve seen in various portions of the Democratic Party for sure but he won the republican primary so if you’re rte actually correct that would mean everyone who ever voted for him is a complete and absolute moron And/or a deceptive, fraudulent, fake Republican.

So you’re saying OS, PB, 6ft, etc are closet democrats? What else are in those closets I wonder?

I don’t think that cohort who voted for him would like the latter though it may very well be true. Seems to me that’s the case.
Trump capitalized at an opportunistic time, think third party. A new aged revolt, fed up with status quo, dead beat, talk out of the side of their neck entrenched politicians. Everyone says your vote counts, and yet, we get the same thing over and over and over. Trump was on to something, but he fudged it up b/c he couldn't shut up. If Trump had cleaned up his decorum early on, acted presidential, he would have won over many more. Instead, he doubled down...and to be frank, I believe his base is shrinking b/c of it.

Back to your question, No, I do not think they are closet democrats, nor am I. There is still the division between the parties on issues, here on fan lax, we tend to shoot the messenger, because we are more worried about getting our two cents and a dig in. If you noticed, those of us that were arguing in the (r) defense (not so much for Trump), were focused on primarily principled issues abroad that have impacted us locally and financially for years/decades.....all things China, The UN, M.E., SK, Climate accord, Southern border. The goal was to shore up our footings, a long overdue physical, we have spread ourselves a bit too thin after a looong war. Notice OS's post recently about agreeing with Jim Webb and the ME?
Bingo! LP readers will recall that I never supported Trump in the primary, nor expected him to be nominated, let alone win. I was hoping the (D)'s would be smart enough to nominate Jim Webb, whom I supported. After Trump was elected, I wanted him to succeed for the good of the country. I supported & defended him when I agreed with his policy or his decisions & I was disgusted by the govt officials who abused their powers to subvert his campaign then try to end his tenure.
Look forward to you supporting and defending Biden.

“I wish you would!”
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old salt
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by old salt »

seacoaster wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:06 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 6:43 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:28 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:50 am
seacoaster wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:25 am
old salt wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:17 am
ggait wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:26 am At least these 7 conservative GOP congressfolk have a bit of a clue:

From a purely partisan perspective, Republican presidential candidates have won the national popular vote only once in the last 32 years. They have therefore depended on the electoral college for nearly all presidential victories in the last generation. If we perpetuate the notion that Congress may disregard certified electoral votes—based solely on its own assessment that one or more states mishandled the presidential election—we will be delegitimizing the very system that led Donald Trump to victory in 2016, and that could provide the only path to victory in 2024.

Word.

Doofuses like Salty, Hawley, Cruz and the 140 member House dumb-ass caucus need to think before speaking. States rights and the Electoral College are things that benefit the...wait for it...GOP. Wait, what?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5324 ... -challenge
I agree with this part of their letter :
The elections held in at least six battleground states raise profound questions, and it is a legal, constitutional, and moral imperative that they be answered.
That's what is being done. Otherwise, it will be swept under the rug.
Such baloney. You reached the sad phase of your partisan episode.
Why are these republicans still sticking up for trump? They look like a complete bunch of idiots. This trump call to the SoS of Georgia was the most pathetic thing I have heard in a very long time. Go away trump, just go away, go play golf or something. The sad part is that this weed is now the face of the republican party. trump is making the democrats look brilliant, and that is a tough thing to do. The democrats just have to stand aside and watch trump implode all on his own.
You got it wrong. Schmidlap says it’s all by the book and for the betterment of the country. Trump is trying to save us from junk mail voting.
What Trump is doing is an entirely separate thing from what the objectors in Congress are doing.
They're trying to save the future of the GOP, not save lost cause Trump, who is counterproductive & self-destructing.
They're trying to prevent Trump from dragging the party down with him.
Umm, you're crazy.
No you're crazy. They're not fighting to save Trump. They know he's a lost cause. They're trying to steer us back to the way we did elections before the pandemic & retain the support of Trump supporters in their states or districts.
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old salt
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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:12 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:08 pm
youthathletics wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:42 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:57 am In don’t think given all the democrats have discussed with respect to rule of law, transparency and democracy of late that he fits in there. He’s a parasite on all of us. His behavior of spending and wealth transfers and retribution I’ve seen in various portions of the Democratic Party for sure but he won the republican primary so if you’re rte actually correct that would mean everyone who ever voted for him is a complete and absolute moron And/or a deceptive, fraudulent, fake Republican.

So you’re saying OS, PB, 6ft, etc are closet democrats? What else are in those closets I wonder?

I don’t think that cohort who voted for him would like the latter though it may very well be true. Seems to me that’s the case.
Trump capitalized at an opportunistic time, think third party. A new aged revolt, fed up with status quo, dead beat, talk out of the side of their neck entrenched politicians. Everyone says your vote counts, and yet, we get the same thing over and over and over. Trump was on to something, but he fudged it up b/c he couldn't shut up. If Trump had cleaned up his decorum early on, acted presidential, he would have won over many more. Instead, he doubled down...and to be frank, I believe his base is shrinking b/c of it.

Back to your question, No, I do not think they are closet democrats, nor am I. There is still the division between the parties on issues, here on fan lax, we tend to shoot the messenger, because we are more worried about getting our two cents and a dig in. If you noticed, those of us that were arguing in the (r) defense (not so much for Trump), were focused on primarily principled issues abroad that have impacted us locally and financially for years/decades.....all things China, The UN, M.E., SK, Climate accord, Southern border. The goal was to shore up our footings, a long overdue physical, we have spread ourselves a bit too thin after a looong war. Notice OS's post recently about agreeing with Jim Webb and the ME?
Bingo! LP readers will recall that I never supported Trump in the primary, nor expected him to be nominated, let alone win. I was hoping the (D)'s would be smart enough to nominate Jim Webb, whom I supported. After Trump was elected, I wanted him to succeed for the good of the country. I supported & defended him when I agreed with his policy or his decisions & I was disgusted by the govt officials who abused their powers to subvert his campaign then try to end his tenure.
Look forward to you supporting and defending Biden.
I very much want Biden to survive & serve a full 4 year term.
a fan
Posts: 19004
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Post by a fan »

old salt wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:13 pm No you're crazy. They're not fighting to save Trump. They know he's a lost cause. They're trying to steer us back to the way we did elections before the pandemic
:lol: :lol: How is what they are doing going to do that?

GGait is right----you're not being intellectually honest. You don't buy the BS you're selling here.
old salt wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:13 pm & retain the support of Trump supporters in their states or districts.
Yes. Party over Democracy. Tin Foil vs. not filling your shoes with your own drool.
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