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Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:06 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
a fan wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:26 pm
youthathletics wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:11 am I agree completely they could have passed damned near everything they wanted in short fashion BUT because half the establishment republicans under Paul Ryan, were not pleased with Trump winning, many stepped away and were not present...furthermore the Russian BS was in full effect and congressman were afraid to go down with the ship....distancing themselves. If you all believe for a moment that had nothing to do with policy and decision efforts by the r majority, then I believe you are being intentionally naive.
Great. If there was some major problem in the R Party because of [fill in the nonsense excuse] that was so bad that they couldn't legislate.....explain how they managed to pass not one, not two, but three massive new spending spending bills with no trouble whatsoever?

You guys are really something. A F-ing meteor will hit the Earth, wiping us all out before you'll hold your own freaking party responsible for anything.

Why the F do you boys vote for these idiots your entire lives if all you're going to do is make excuses for why they're literally doing nothing when it's actually time for them to govern?


Obamacare is still law. You don't care.

Immigration is still a mess. You don't care.

Remember the original pitch on taxes? That your return would fit on a postcard? Whoops. You don't care.

Border wall that you all wanted two years ago? Nowhere close to being built. You don't care.

Government bigger than ever. You don't care.

The deficit that was such a national nightmare when a D was in office has exploded. You don't care.

A fourth massive new spending bill is in the bullpen. You don't care.
It’s not that they don’t care. They are hypocrites.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:11 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:06 pm
Cooter wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:58 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:33 am

uhh huh, you get your 'news' from the Epoch Times!
:roll: :lol:
I actually don't read the Epoch Times regularly. It is only a weekly newspaper. Sometimes I read it on the potty or pick it up to do the puzzles in it. The article in discussion was on the front page and caught my eye. The data from it is interesting:
In North Carolina, during the past 18 months, more than 331 illegal aliens have been charged with 1,172 child rapes and child sexual assaults, according to data collected by an independent researcher.
The "data" is what the anti-immigrant activist says is the data, not validated by anyone else, at least not according to this 'journalistic' rag.

Come on, cooter, you don't come across as that gullible usually.
You are being to kind to Kuta.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:59 pm
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:31 am
youthathletics wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:11 am I agree completely they could have passed damned near everything they wanted in short fashion BUT because half the establishment republicans under Paul Ryan, were not pleased with Trump winning, many stepped away and were not present...furthermore the Russian BS was in full effect and congressman were afraid to go down with the ship....distancing themselves. If you all believe for a moment that had nothing to do with policy and decision efforts by the r majority, then I believe you are being intentionally naive.
Bull hockey.
There was a massive deal on the table, with bi-partisan leadership support, and Trump walked away from it, no one else.
EDIT: Miller, Bannon etc didn't like it despite the $25 Billion for border security (the Wall!). Bad politics according to them.
$25 billion for a wall ? Show us your source for that amount.

The Graham-Durbin bi-partisan proposal included only $1.6 or $2.7 billion & had to be called a fence or physical barrier.
Building a wall, or even calling it a "wall" was a dealbreaker for the (D)'s.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... bin-graham
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/politics ... index.html

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:04 pm
by old salt
a fan wrote: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:47 pm Question: Why didn't Trump sign immigration reform into law while he and the R's controlled both Houses? Or fund his complete wall in any of the 3 massive spending bills he signed and didn't veto?
Same reason Obama couldn't do it. You continue to ignore the requirement to have 60 Senate votes.

Even in the Graham-Durbin DACA bill, the (D)'s refused to give on anything that Trump could call a wall.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:19 pm
by youthathletics
a fan wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:26 pm
youthathletics wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:11 am I agree completely they could have passed damned near everything they wanted in short fashion BUT because half the establishment republicans under Paul Ryan, were not pleased with Trump winning, many stepped away and were not present...furthermore the Russian BS was in full effect and congressman were afraid to go down with the ship....distancing themselves. If you all believe for a moment that had nothing to do with policy and decision efforts by the r majority, then I believe you are being intentionally naive.
Great. If there was some major problem in the R Party because of [fill in the nonsense excuse] that was so bad that they couldn't legislate.....explain how they managed to pass not one, not two, but three massive new spending spending bills with no trouble whatsoever? Everyone likes money....right? TAATS

You guys are really something. A F-ing meteor will hit the Earth, wiping us all out before you'll hold your own freaking party responsible for anything. I have been on record as being pi$$ed off they did not cram all the changes the wanted in while in majority. My original comment here still applies. We all can not start having selective memory when Trump actually won and the R's were standoffish. Why were they? Becuase he was actually holding them to task and they were walking backwards...establishment punks they were.

Why the F do you boys vote for these idiots your entire lives if all you're going to do is make excuses for why they're literally doing nothing when it's actually time for them to govern? If we did that, we'd have no politicians...but you know that.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:12 pm
by RedFromMI
Senate is not always the problem - in both 2006 and 2013 fairly comprehensive reform bills passed the Senate (exceeding the 60 vote threshold) but were not acted upon in the House. R majority in the House each time.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 3:34 pm
by ggait
And that 2013 bill was supported by Lindsey Graham, Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity. Hard to believe, especially since it was only a few years back.

Really shows how completely Trump hijacked the GOP in the last few years. But it can't last. While Graham ("not enough angry white guys") was wrong about the short term, he's still right about the long term.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:54 pm
by old salt
Trump wasn't President in 2006 or 2013.
The current Northern Triangle asylum crisis didn't start until 2014.

Trump would have signed anything that could get through Congress
so long as it had something he could call a Wall & declare victory.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:44 pm
by CU77
Schumer offered Trump $20B for his stupid Wall if he would legalize the dreamers. Trump turned it down.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:46 pm
by MDlaxfan76
CU77 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:44 pm Schumer offered Trump $20B for his stupid Wall if he would legalize the dreamers. Trump turned it down.
ok, maybe I was wrong about $25B, Salty.

But the great 'deal maker' blew that chance. Dumb.

EDIT: my $25B was correct: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -slip-away

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:21 pm
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:46 pm
CU77 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:44 pm Schumer offered Trump $20B for his stupid Wall if he would legalize the dreamers. Trump turned it down.
ok, maybe I was wrong about $25B, Salty.

But the great 'deal maker' blew that chance. Dumb.

EDIT: my $25B was correct: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -slip-away
Thanks for finding the details. The Rounds - King bill would have been a good start. Like in '06 & '13, it couldn't get 60 votes.
Pass that, then work on asylum, then the other parts of comp reform would have been a lot easier to work out.

Yesterday, I was sitting, awaiting my turn in my barber shop. Univision was playing on the big screen. Jorge Ramos did a report on the signing of the Safe Third Country Agreement with the Guatemalan Foreign Minister from the Oval Office, followed by a report with video of the 6k Mexican Natl Guard troops on their southern border & the 20k Mexican troops deployed throughout the country, battling the cartels & the smugglers. The response of those watching with me was surprisingly favorable.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:25 pm
by Cooter
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:06 pm
Cooter wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:58 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:33 am

uhh huh, you get your 'news' from the Epoch Times!
:roll: :lol:
I actually don't read the Epoch Times regularly. It is only a weekly newspaper. Sometimes I read it on the potty or pick it up to do the puzzles in it. The article in discussion was on the front page and caught my eye. The data from it is interesting:
In North Carolina, during the past 18 months, more than 331 illegal aliens have been charged with 1,172 child rapes and child sexual assaults, according to data collected by an independent researcher.
The "data" is what the anti-immigrant activist says is the data, not validated by anyone else, at least not according to this 'journalistic' rag.

Come on, cooter, you don't come across as that gullible usually.
I imagine people from the other side of the fence would not be looking too hard for such information, and would suppress or try to mitigate it if they found it.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:46 pm
by a fan
youthathletics wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:19 pm If we did that, we'd have no politicians...but you know that.
If you did that, we'd have a functioning government, instead of pointless finger pointing at the "other side".

McConnell would have been primaried out years ago. Same for Pelosi. Same for Schumer. Same for that idiot Gohmert.

And they'd be replaced by people who actually get sh*t done. You're telling your party members to do nothing. So that's what they do.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:56 am
by MDlaxfan76
Cooter wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:25 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:06 pm
Cooter wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:58 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:33 am

uhh huh, you get your 'news' from the Epoch Times!
:roll: :lol:
I actually don't read the Epoch Times regularly. It is only a weekly newspaper. Sometimes I read it on the potty or pick it up to do the puzzles in it. The article in discussion was on the front page and caught my eye. The data from it is interesting:
In North Carolina, during the past 18 months, more than 331 illegal aliens have been charged with 1,172 child rapes and child sexual assaults, according to data collected by an independent researcher.
The "data" is what the anti-immigrant activist says is the data, not validated by anyone else, at least not according to this 'journalistic' rag.

Come on, cooter, you don't come across as that gullible usually.
I imagine people from the other side of the fence would not be looking too hard for such information, and would suppress or try to mitigate it if they found it.
Fair skepticism of the 'other side of the fence', however there are lots and lots of folks who would find such analysis (if true) to support their political 'side'. And many others would at least find it 'important' and 'news worthy'. So, if true, this analysis would certainly get covered. In the MSM. Not just in conservative leaning newspapers like WSJ, but also NYT and WAPO. It would be 'newsworthy'.

The problem is that the data doesn't support it. Apparently this guy often includes anyone with an Hispanic name as if "illegal". So, honest R's ignore him. As long as that's the case, the MSM won't bother to cover the debunking of it.

Listen, it's up to us as readers to be skeptical of publications and specific commentators, much less far right or far left activists, known to not have an emphasis on 'journalistic ethics'. It's fine to lean right or left, (eg. WSJ and NYT) but the actual attention to those ethics truly matters.

That doesn't mean we should accept as gospel every article's 'facts' nor every commentator's 'opinions' in the MSM, but in the whole their journalism can be depended upon to follow ethical constraints, including the imperative to correct information when found to be false.

That's not the case with propaganda machines like Epoch Times.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:13 am
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:21 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:46 pm
CU77 wrote: Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:44 pm Schumer offered Trump $20B for his stupid Wall if he would legalize the dreamers. Trump turned it down.
ok, maybe I was wrong about $25B, Salty.

But the great 'deal maker' blew that chance. Dumb.

EDIT: my $25B was correct: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -slip-away
Thanks for finding the details. The Rounds - King bill would have been a good start. Like in '06 & '13, it couldn't get 60 votes.
Pass that, then work on asylum, then the other parts of comp reform would have been a lot easier to work out.

Yesterday, I was sitting, awaiting my turn in my barber shop. Univision was playing on the big screen. Jorge Ramos did a report on the signing of the Safe Third Country Agreement with the Guatemalan Foreign Minister from the Oval Office, followed by a report with video of the 6k Mexican Natl Guard troops on their southern border & the 20k Mexican troops deployed throughout the country, battling the cartels & the smugglers. The response of those watching with me was surprisingly favorable.
Salty, the only reason it would need 60 votes was Trump's opposition.
McConnell would not have been able to block it.

The dynamic earlier was a President (Obama) in support of the bi-partisan Senate proposals and a GOP House opposed.

I'm not surprised that folks would be enthusiastic about the Mexicans fighting the cartels. Major parts of Mexico are dominated by the cartels, through a combination of incredible violence and intimidation and corruption of the police and gov't officials. Incredibly dangerous for regular folks.

Same for Guatemala, and the rest of the Triangle.

The "Safe Third Party" is a complete joke, window dressing for posturing only. The notion that Guatemala is 'safe' for anyone other than those pledging fealty to the criminals is flat ridiculous.

But fighting 'cartels and smugglers' should indeed be supported and it shouldn't come as any surprise if folks in the barber shop had that reaction.

I'd note that those who have made the dangerous migration successfully have no love for the 'smugglers' who extract virtually all of the migrants' meager life savings to pay for access to the smugglers' 'protection', yet fail to actually 'protect' people along the way. It's a classic 'protection' racket.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:44 pm
by old salt
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:13 amSalty, the only reason it would need 60 votes was Trump's opposition.
McConnell would not have been able to block it.

I'm not surprised that folks would be enthusiastic about the Mexicans fighting the cartels. Major parts of Mexico are dominated by the cartels, through a combination of incredible violence and intimidation and corruption of the police and gov't officials. Incredibly dangerous for regular folks.

Same for Guatemala, and the rest of the Triangle.

The "Safe Third Party" is a complete joke, window dressing for posturing only. The notion that Guatemala is 'safe' for anyone other than those pledging fealty to the criminals is flat ridiculous.
The Senate filibuster rules have nothing to do with Trump or any other President.
40 Senators can block anything not exempted by the nuclear option.

The Safe Third Country rule is no more of a joke than the asylum scam being perpetrated by economic migrants.
There are safe areas in Mexico open to migrants, as are Costa Rica & Panama.
Less than 10% of asylum seekers from the Northern Triangle see the adjudication process through to completion & gain asylum.
It's a massive con job & diversion of resources.

I was surprised at the reaction to the news by the folks I was watching it with,
They see the asylum abuse for the scam that it is & view it as something making life harder for them here.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:45 pm
by 6ftstick
Heard a report yesterday that we The American taxpayer" spent 240 million on care for illegals caught coming into the country.

NAH couldn't be.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:58 pm
by a fan
Almost sounds like Trump and your Republicans ought to get off their butts and legislate...and actually fix the problem.


Naaaah. Playing your "blame the Dems" game is working just fine.

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:34 pm
by youthathletics

Re: Who is supporting the immigrant caravan?

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:08 pm
by MDlaxfan76
old salt wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:44 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:13 amSalty, the only reason it would need 60 votes was Trump's opposition.
McConnell would not have been able to block it.

I'm not surprised that folks would be enthusiastic about the Mexicans fighting the cartels. Major parts of Mexico are dominated by the cartels, through a combination of incredible violence and intimidation and corruption of the police and gov't officials. Incredibly dangerous for regular folks.

Same for Guatemala, and the rest of the Triangle.

The "Safe Third Party" is a complete joke, window dressing for posturing only. The notion that Guatemala is 'safe' for anyone other than those pledging fealty to the criminals is flat ridiculous.
The Senate filibuster rules have nothing to do with Trump or any other President.
40 Senators can block anything not exempted by the nuclear option.

The Safe Third Country rule is no more of a joke than the asylum scam being perpetrated by economic migrants.
There are safe areas in Mexico open to migrants, as are Costa Rica & Panama.
Less than 10% of asylum seekers from the Northern Triangle see the adjudication process through to completion & gain asylum.
It's a massive con job & diversion of resources.

I was surprised at the reaction to the news by the folks I was watching it with,
They see the asylum abuse for the scam that it is & view it as something making life harder for them here.
True, but what 40 Senators would have blocked a bi-partisan bill passed by the House and supported by Trump and McConnell???

You deflect as usual...Guatemala can't possibly be considered a 'safe' harbor for asylum seekers...why the heck to do you think they're fleeing?