All things CoronaVirus

[ToastDunk]

Brilliant.

Do we all accept 2 million dead? That's the best we can do?

New Trump pandemic adviser pushes controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy, worrying public health officials
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

"Atlas, who does not have a background in infectious diseases or epidemiology, has expanded his influence inside the White House by advocating policies that appeal to Trump’s desire to move past the pandemic and get the economy going, distressing health officials on the White House coronavirus task force and throughout the administration who worry that their advice is being followed less and less."

[Peter Brown]

Brilliant.

Do we all accept 2 million dead? That's the best we can do?

New Trump pandemic adviser pushes controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy, worrying public health officials
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

"Atlas, who does not have a background in infectious diseases or epidemiology, has expanded his influence inside the White House by advocating policies that appeal to Trump’s desire to move past the pandemic and get the economy going, distressing health officials on the White House coronavirus task force and throughout the administration who worry that their advice is being followed less and less."

If it only wiped out the rioters and looting lunatics, sure.

[ToastDunk]

Brilliant.

Do we all accept 2 million dead? That's the best we can do?

New Trump pandemic adviser pushes controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy, worrying public health officials
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

"Atlas, who does not have a background in infectious diseases or epidemiology, has expanded his influence inside the White House by advocating policies that appeal to Trump’s desire to move past the pandemic and get the economy going, distressing health officials on the White House coronavirus task force and throughout the administration who worry that their advice is being followed less and less."

If it only wiped out the rioters and looting lunatics, sure.

I get it, good one PB. New meaning to thinning the "herd." Let's throw in bible-thumpin', 2A-screeching whackadoos as well. Oh, and Steve Scalise. A real red, white & blue death party.

[ggait]

If o d has the Trump Virus under control, why is he now pushing herd immunity?

Yeah. Very curious.

If I was a skeptic of the Trump administration, this might make me wonder if we maybe might not actually have that vaccine by Election Day as promised...

By the way, here is a great succinct statement of why we can't just let the virus run (like in grade schools or on college campuses) even though the youngsters have pretty low risk:

In a Wall Street Journal op-ed published Sunday, Trump’s former Food and Drug Administration commissioner, Scott Gottlieb, said Sweden should not be the model for America.

“Covid spreads too easily to think it can be confined to the young,” Gottlieb wrote. “It is neither possible nor desirable to lock away the elderly and people with underlying health conditions.”

[seacoaster]

If o d has the Trump Virus under control, why is he now pushing herd immunity?

Yeah. Very curious.

If I was a skeptic of the Trump administration, this might make me wonder if we maybe might not actually have that vaccine by Election Day as promised...

By the way, here is a great succinct statement of why we can't just let the virus run (like in grade schools or on college campuses) even though the youngsters have pretty low risk:

In a Wall Street Journal op-ed published Sunday, Trump’s former Food and Drug Administration commissioner, Scott Gottlieb, said Sweden should not be the model for America.

“Covid spreads too easily to think it can be confined to the young,” Gottlieb wrote. “It is neither possible nor desirable to lock away the elderly and people with underlying health conditions.”

Yup:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... ldren.html

"....The data set, which spans from May 21 to Aug. 20, varies from state to state, possibly obscuring differences in how the virus affects infants, young children and adolescents.

For example, many states group infants and teenagers into the same category. One state even includes people up to age 24. But the rise remains similar across states.

Young children seem to catch and transmit the virus less than adults, and children of all ages tend not to experience severe complications from it. But Dr. Sean O’Leary, vice chairman of the American Academy of Pediatrics’ committee on infectious diseases, said that substantial community spread in many parts of the United States corresponded with more infections among children.

The rise in reported cases comes in part from more widespread testing, but Dr. O’Leary said there was evidence that minors were becoming infected at a higher rate now than earlier in the year because hospitalizations and deaths among children had increased as well.

Although much is still unknown about how the virus affects young people, like adults, Black and Latino children who contract the virus are more likely to be hospitalized.

“Anyone who has been on the front lines of this pandemic in a children’s hospital can tell you we’ve taken care of lots of kids that are very sick,” Dr. O’Leary said. “Yes, it’s less severe in children than adults, but it’s not completely benign.”

Since the beginning of the summer, every state in the country has had an increase in the number of young people who have tested positive for the coronavirus, as a share of all cases. In late May, about 5 percent of the nation’s cases were documented in minors. By Aug. 20, that number had risen to more than 9 percent.

Some lawmakers have cited the lower likelihood of transmission among school-age children as a reason schools should reopen for in-person classes.

President Trump has said he would like to see schools fully reopen and falsely claimed in a video posted by his campaign that children were “virtually immune” to the virus. Facebook and Twitter later removed the video, saying it violated policies about misinformation around the virus. In July, Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida, a Republican, claimed that “schoolchildren actually are not vectors for this.”

Dr. William Raszka Jr., a pediatric infectious disease expert at the Robert Larner, M.D. College of Medicine at the University of Vermont in Burlington, said research consistently showed that adults — not children — were driving the spread of the virus. Outbreaks at summer camps and schools, however, have demonstrated that transmission can, in fact, happen among children.

At a sleepaway summer camp in Georgia where hundreds were infected, 76 percent of campers and staff members whose test results were available to researchers had tested positive. The youngest campers, ages 6 to 10, were more likely to be infected than older campers.

It is clear that the virus can spread among children under certain circumstances, Dr. Raszka said. He worries about opening schools in places where infection rates are high, especially in areas that do not require people to wear masks or other proven mitigation measures to stop the spread of the virus.

Unlike the summer camp where children interacted almost entirely with other children and teenagers, schools holding in-person classes require interactions between students and their adult teachers and caregivers, who may be more vulnerable to severe complications.

“One of the challenges is that you just can’t separate schools from the community,” Dr. Raszka said. “When there’s a really high prevalence rate in the community and you open schools, there’s going to be a lot of transmission in schools.”

In June, a study published in Nature found that people under age 20 were approximately half as susceptible to contracting the virus as those older than 20. That lower likelihood of infection is reflected across many states. In Arizona, for instance, about 2,800 of every 100,000 residents have tested positive, whereas just over 1,300 of every 100,000 children in the state have tested positive.

That likelihood changes by age. Research consistently shows that teenagers are more likely to catch and transmit the virus than younger children, though the reasons are uncertain. Those 10 to 19 years old make up a larger share of cases than young children in all of the states that track the age groups separately.

The total number of children infected has doubled since the American Academy of Pediatrics and education groups recommended in early July that schools should reopen wherever possible. Despite the overall increases, experts said those guidelines still applied.

“There are a lot of places in the U.S. where it is potentially safe to reopen schools, even knowing that, yes, kids can get infected and, yes, sometimes kids can get severely infected,” Dr. O’Leary said.

Some success stories show that it is possible to stop transmission among children in places with low community levels of virus.

At four summer camps in Maine, a state with one of the nation’s lowest infection rates, aggressive testing and quarantining prevented those who tested positive after arrival from spreading the virus. Germany, Denmark and Norway have been able to keep schools open, thanks to a combination of low community transmission, fast and free testing, and rigorous contact tracing."

[Peter Brown]

Brilliant.

Do we all accept 2 million dead? That's the best we can do?

New Trump pandemic adviser pushes controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy, worrying public health officials
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

"Atlas, who does not have a background in infectious diseases or epidemiology, has expanded his influence inside the White House by advocating policies that appeal to Trump’s desire to move past the pandemic and get the economy going, distressing health officials on the White House coronavirus task force and throughout the administration who worry that their advice is being followed less and less."

If it only wiped out the rioters and looting lunatics, sure.

I get it, good one PB. New meaning to thinning the "herd." Let's throw in bible-thumpin', 2A-screeching whackadoos as well. Oh, and Steve Scalise. A real red, white & blue death party.

Nahh, just these types would be fine by me and any civilized human:

Dem Birdbrains.jpg (23.78 KiB) Viewed 959 times

By the way, what's the punishment in a lefty society if you don't raise the fist? Is your hand chopped off? The Saudi Religious Police Vice Squad comes to mind...I think a few Fanlax lefties might even sign up for duty!

[seacoaster]

Brilliant.

Do we all accept 2 million dead? That's the best we can do?

New Trump pandemic adviser pushes controversial ‘herd immunity’ strategy, worrying public health officials
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

"Atlas, who does not have a background in infectious diseases or epidemiology, has expanded his influence inside the White House by advocating policies that appeal to Trump’s desire to move past the pandemic and get the economy going, distressing health officials on the White House coronavirus task force and throughout the administration who worry that their advice is being followed less and less."

If it only wiped out the rioters and looting lunatics, sure.

I get it, good one PB. New meaning to thinning the "herd." Let's throw in bible-thumpin', 2A-screeching whackadoos as well. Oh, and Steve Scalise. A real red, white & blue death party.

Nahh, just these types would be fine by me and any civilized human:


Dem Birdbrains.jpg


By the way, what's the punishment in a lefty society if you don't raise the fist? Is your hand chopped off? The Saudi Religious Police Vice Squad comes to mind...I think a few Fanlax lefties might even sign up for duty!

Another stupid post. First, we shouldn't let them vote. Now we should just thin them from the herd. Just middle-school level stuff.

[CU88]

If o d has the Trump Virus under control, why is he now pushing herd immunity?

Yeah. Very curious.

If I was a skeptic of the Trump administration, this might make me wonder if we maybe might not actually have that vaccine by Election Day as promised...

By the way, here is a great succinct statement of why we can't just let the virus run (like in grade schools or on college campuses) even though the youngsters have pretty low risk:

In a Wall Street Journal op-ed published Sunday, Trump’s former Food and Drug Administration commissioner, Scott Gottlieb, said Sweden should not be the model for America.

“Covid spreads too easily to think it can be confined to the young,” Gottlieb wrote. “It is neither possible nor desirable to lock away the elderly and people with underlying health conditions.”

Wait, I was told by our resident expert, PB, that we all would have a COVID-19 vaccine by Oct 15th!

[DocBarrister]

Viruses do not have an ethnicity, and therefore cannot be described as “Chinese.”

In a thinly veiled swipe at Trump, the Democratic-led House will vote in September on a resolution condemning all forms of anti-Asian bias related to the novel coronavirus pandemic, Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) told colleagues Monday in a letter.

The resolution, sponsored by Rep. Grace Meng (D-N.Y.) makes no mention of Trump, but Meng made her motivations clear when she introduced the measure in March.

“The increased use of anti-Asian rhetoric, particularly from our nation’s leaders such as the President, and their use of terms like ‘Chinese virus,’ ‘Wuhan virus,’ and ‘Kung-flu,’ is not only irresponsible, reckless, and downright disgusting, it threatens the safety of the Asian American community,” Weng said in a statement at the time.

“Such language demeans, disparages, and scapegoats Asian Americans,” she added.

The resolution says such rhetoric has been responsible for an increase in hate crimes and other violence directed at Asian Americans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... pdates-us/

It’s time to mandate a change to the racist title of this thread.

It’s bad enough that we have frequently posting members here who are segregationists, delusional QAnon adherents, anti-Muslim bigots, and apologists for Vladimir Putin. Do we really need to express anti-Asian bigotry on this forum, too?

It’s a simple change ... just make the thread title, “All Things Coronavirus.”

DocBarrister

[CU88]

183,000 Americans dead.

MAGA

How soon until IMPOTUS and his DEPLORABLES move the death total goal posts yet again...?


Trump says 200,000 Americans could die from coronavirus, because he’s done “a very good job”
The goalposts just moved drastically.

By Aaron Rupar@atrupar Mar 30, 2020, 1:40pm EDT

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/30/21199586/ ... 0-good-job

[Matnum PI]

NY Times and Spain.
‘Here We Go Again’: A Second Virus Wave Grips Spain https://nyti.ms/3jIsEDh

[RedFromMI]

183,000 Americans dead.

MAGA

How soon until IMPOTUS and his DEPLORABLES move the death total goal posts yet again...?


Trump says 200,000 Americans could die from coronavirus, because he’s done “a very good job”
The goalposts just moved drastically.

By Aaron Rupar@atrupar Mar 30, 2020, 1:40pm EDT

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/30/21199586/ ... 0-good-job

And because of excess death numbers (roughly 30% higher) we already are well over that 200K. And there are now advisors to Trump pushing the "herd immunity" canard. Deaths would then approach or exceed millions if we went down that path.

Roughly an equivalent of the number of deaths from 9/11 are occurring DAILY. Trump has effed this one up royally, and should be held accountable by both being voted out of office, and prosecuted for his many crimes.

[ggait]

Meanwhile, the actual report is correct. 94% of those who have died did in fact have underlying conditions. No one said this is WHY they died. In fact, at this stage, no one knows.

JFC. Just look up the CDC excess death data.

USA has had 200k excess deaths this year through July. The rate of excess deaths started to spike up in mid-March and has continued since then. The peak excess deaths occurred in April.

Gee, anyone have any ideas of something unusual going on during that time period? Any ideas at all? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Did cancer mutate and suddenly get a lot worse? Did people rapidly develop new incidences of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. at rates higher than before? Did we all of a sudden start having more gunshot wounds? More motorcycle crashes? Was there a big earthquake/hurricane/wild fire that killed thousands of people during that time period? Was there a big anthrax terrorist attack?

People die for some reason/reasons. So what was it?

Such utter and complete gaslighting ignorant bull shirt to say we have no idea "why" these people started die-ing when they did.

Even a Gator troll boy should be able to understand it.

#peteyisamoron


https://www.sciencealert.com/2020-has-k ... -us-so-far

[youthathletics]

Meanwhile, the actual report is correct. 94% of those who have died did in fact have underlying conditions. No one said this is WHY they died. In fact, at this stage, no one knows.

JFC. Just look up the CDC excess death data.

USA has had 200k excess deaths this year through July. The rate of excess deaths started to spike up in mid-March and has continued since then. The peak excess deaths occurred in April.

Gee, anyone have any ideas of something unusual going on during that time period? Any ideas at all? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Did cancer mutate and suddenly get a lot worse? Did people rapidly develop new incidences of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. at rates higher than before? Did we all of a sudden start having more gunshot wounds? More motorcycle crashes? Was there a big earthquake/hurricane/wild fire that killed thousands of people during that time period? Was there a big anthrax terrorist attack?

People die for some reason/reasons. So what was it?

Such utter and complete gaslighting ignorant bull shirt to say we have no idea "why" these people started die-ing when they did.

We did all of a sudden have complete shutdown of society, so much so that people with pre-existing conditions were not getting their standard of medical care. Not implying all those excess deaths equaled people that died at home due in part to an inability to reach a hospital.

[RedFromMI]

Meanwhile, the actual report is correct. 94% of those who have died did in fact have underlying conditions. No one said this is WHY they died. In fact, at this stage, no one knows.

JFC. Just look up the CDC excess death data.

USA has had 200k excess deaths this year through July. The rate of excess deaths started to spike up in mid-March and has continued since then. The peak excess deaths occurred in April.

Gee, anyone have any ideas of something unusual going on during that time period? Any ideas at all? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Did cancer mutate and suddenly get a lot worse? Did people rapidly develop new incidences of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. at rates higher than before? Did we all of a sudden start having more gunshot wounds? More motorcycle crashes? Was there a big earthquake/hurricane/wild fire that killed thousands of people during that time period? Was there a big anthrax terrorist attack?

People die for some reason/reasons. So what was it?

Such utter and complete gaslighting ignorant bull shirt to say we have no idea "why" these people started die-ing when they did.

Even a Gator troll boy should be able to understand it.

#peteyisamoron


https://www.sciencealert.com/2020-has-k ... -us-so-far

He (and others) are refusing to see what is plainly obvious, because they have found some "alternative facts" that don't really explain it, but allow them to point at those lies as if they are real reasoning. They claim it is "science" when it is clear that it is definitely not science.

They are letting their ideology cloud their thinking - and instead accuse the "other side" of the very things they are guilty of.

This is a serious disease with potentially serious side effects that does not exclusively kill those with certain comorbidities. The long term damage in general already looks more severe that for typical viruses.

And yes, if you have other conditions that make it more likely you will die if infected with this particular coronavirus, you still are a victim of the disease. That is why the excess death estimates are so important.

Look at it this way - if a 20-40 year old person gets pneumonia, they are not likely to die. If a 101 year old person (like my late grandmother) gets pneumonia, they are much more likely to die. If other conditions make their demise worse, it still is a death to pneumonia. And potentially other things.

[MDlaxfan76]

Meanwhile, the actual report is correct. 94% of those who have died did in fact have underlying conditions. No one said this is WHY they died. In fact, at this stage, no one knows.

JFC. Just look up the CDC excess death data.

USA has had 200k excess deaths this year through July. The rate of excess deaths started to spike up in mid-March and has continued since then. The peak excess deaths occurred in April.

Gee, anyone have any ideas of something unusual going on during that time period? Any ideas at all? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Did cancer mutate and suddenly get a lot worse? Did people rapidly develop new incidences of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. at rates higher than before? Did we all of a sudden start having more gunshot wounds? More motorcycle crashes? Was there a big earthquake/hurricane/wild fire that killed thousands of people during that time period? Was there a big anthrax terrorist attack?

People die for some reason/reasons. So what was it?

Such utter and complete gaslighting ignorant bull shirt to say we have no idea "why" these people started die-ing when they did.

We did all of a sudden have complete shutdown of society, so much so that people with pre-existing conditions were not getting their standard of medical care. Not implying all those excess deaths equaled people that died at home due in part to an inability to reach a hospital.

No, large parts of our country did not shutdown, and no part of the country shutdown "completely", certainly not akin to what the Chinese did.

The parts of the country in which people with various other medical needs were avoiding care were those in which hospital wards, emergency rooms, and waiting rooms were overrun with COVID cases, with barely enough or not enough PPE for the medical staff much less other non-infected patients. No government order created that situation unnecessarily, it was the reality of a rampant virus spread crowding out other priorities.

It would indeed be true that some 'excess deaths' were the result of less available medical care in those hot zones, but it wasn't because of a lockdown, it's because docs and nurses were already pulling double and triple shifts. Capacity was crushed.

But that didn't last many months, yet excess deaths continue to outpace measured Covid.

[CU88]

Meanwhile, the actual report is correct. 94% of those who have died did in fact have underlying conditions. No one said this is WHY they died. In fact, at this stage, no one knows.

JFC. Just look up the CDC excess death data.

USA has had 200k excess deaths this year through July. The rate of excess deaths started to spike up in mid-March and has continued since then. The peak excess deaths occurred in April.

Gee, anyone have any ideas of something unusual going on during that time period? Any ideas at all? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Did cancer mutate and suddenly get a lot worse? Did people rapidly develop new incidences of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. at rates higher than before? Did we all of a sudden start having more gunshot wounds? More motorcycle crashes? Was there a big earthquake/hurricane/wild fire that killed thousands of people during that time period? Was there a big anthrax terrorist attack?

People die for some reason/reasons. So what was it?

Such utter and complete gaslighting ignorant bull shirt to say we have no idea "why" these people started die-ing when they did.

We did all of a sudden have complete shutdown of society, so much so that people with pre-existing conditions were not getting their standard of medical care. Not implying all those excess deaths equaled people that died at home due in part to an inability to reach a hospital.

This is sarcasm right? If not, it is the dumbest post on the thread!

[youthathletics]

Meanwhile, the actual report is correct. 94% of those who have died did in fact have underlying conditions. No one said this is WHY they died. In fact, at this stage, no one knows.

JFC. Just look up the CDC excess death data.

USA has had 200k excess deaths this year through July. The rate of excess deaths started to spike up in mid-March and has continued since then. The peak excess deaths occurred in April.

Gee, anyone have any ideas of something unusual going on during that time period? Any ideas at all? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Did cancer mutate and suddenly get a lot worse? Did people rapidly develop new incidences of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. at rates higher than before? Did we all of a sudden start having more gunshot wounds? More motorcycle crashes? Was there a big earthquake/hurricane/wild fire that killed thousands of people during that time period? Was there a big anthrax terrorist attack?

People die for some reason/reasons. So what was it?

Such utter and complete gaslighting ignorant bull shirt to say we have no idea "why" these people started die-ing when they did.

We did all of a sudden have complete shutdown of society, so much so that people with pre-existing conditions were not getting their standard of medical care. Not implying all those excess deaths equaled people that died at home due in part to an inability to reach a hospital.

No, large parts of our country did not shutdown, and no part of the country shutdown "completely", certainly not akin to what the Chinese did.

The parts of the country in which people with various other medical needs were avoiding care were those in which hospital wards, emergency rooms, and waiting rooms were overrun with COVID cases, with barely enough or not enough PPE for the medical staff much less other non-infected patients. No government order created that situation unnecessarily, it was the reality of a rampant virus spread crowding out other priorities.

It would indeed be true that some 'excess deaths' were the result of less available medical care in those hot zones, but it wasn't because of a lockdown, it's because docs and nurses were already pulling double and triple shifts. Capacity was crushed.

But that didn't last many months, yet excess deaths continue to outpace measured Covid.

....you proved my point, in your own friggen words It would have been easier to just say. I agree, but disagree on the total lockdown.

[MDlaxfan76]

Meanwhile, the actual report is correct. 94% of those who have died did in fact have underlying conditions. No one said this is WHY they died. In fact, at this stage, no one knows.

JFC. Just look up the CDC excess death data.

USA has had 200k excess deaths this year through July. The rate of excess deaths started to spike up in mid-March and has continued since then. The peak excess deaths occurred in April.

Gee, anyone have any ideas of something unusual going on during that time period? Any ideas at all? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Did cancer mutate and suddenly get a lot worse? Did people rapidly develop new incidences of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. at rates higher than before? Did we all of a sudden start having more gunshot wounds? More motorcycle crashes? Was there a big earthquake/hurricane/wild fire that killed thousands of people during that time period? Was there a big anthrax terrorist attack?

People die for some reason/reasons. So what was it?

Such utter and complete gaslighting ignorant bull shirt to say we have no idea "why" these people started die-ing when they did.

We did all of a sudden have complete shutdown of society, so much so that people with pre-existing conditions were not getting their standard of medical care. Not implying all those excess deaths equaled people that died at home due in part to an inability to reach a hospital.

No, large parts of our country did not shutdown, and no part of the country shutdown "completely", certainly not akin to what the Chinese did.

The parts of the country in which people with various other medical needs were avoiding care were those in which hospital wards, emergency rooms, and waiting rooms were overrun with COVID cases, with barely enough or not enough PPE for the medical staff much less other non-infected patients. No government order created that situation unnecessarily, it was the reality of a rampant virus spread crowding out other priorities.

It would indeed be true that some 'excess deaths' were the result of less available medical care in those hot zones, but it wasn't because of a lockdown, it's because docs and nurses were already pulling double and triple shifts. Capacity was crushed.

But that didn't last many months, yet excess deaths continue to outpace measured Covid.

....you proved my point, in your own friggen words It would have been easier to just say. I agree, but disagree on the total lockdown.

hmmm, trying reading it again.

Your key point was total, "complete shutdown of society" ...not remotely correct. And then we took our foot off the gas at the end of the most intense push, just when we knew we needed another month.

and why the trauma over my finding something to agree with, albeit with some nuance?

[youthathletics]

Meanwhile, the actual report is correct. 94% of those who have died did in fact have underlying conditions. No one said this is WHY they died. In fact, at this stage, no one knows.

JFC. Just look up the CDC excess death data.

USA has had 200k excess deaths this year through July. The rate of excess deaths started to spike up in mid-March and has continued since then. The peak excess deaths occurred in April.

Gee, anyone have any ideas of something unusual going on during that time period? Any ideas at all? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

Did cancer mutate and suddenly get a lot worse? Did people rapidly develop new incidences of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. at rates higher than before? Did we all of a sudden start having more gunshot wounds? More motorcycle crashes? Was there a big earthquake/hurricane/wild fire that killed thousands of people during that time period? Was there a big anthrax terrorist attack?

People die for some reason/reasons. So what was it?

Such utter and complete gaslighting ignorant bull shirt to say we have no idea "why" these people started die-ing when they did.

We did all of a sudden have complete shutdown of society, so much so that people with pre-existing conditions were not getting their standard of medical care. Not implying all those excess deaths equaled people that died at home due in part to an inability to reach a hospital.

No, large parts of our country did not shutdown, and no part of the country shutdown "completely", certainly not akin to what the Chinese did.

The parts of the country in which people with various other medical needs were avoiding care were those in which hospital wards, emergency rooms, and waiting rooms were overrun with COVID cases, with barely enough or not enough PPE for the medical staff much less other non-infected patients. No government order created that situation unnecessarily, it was the reality of a rampant virus spread crowding out other priorities.

It would indeed be true that some 'excess deaths' were the result of less available medical care in those hot zones, but it wasn't because of a lockdown, it's because docs and nurses were already pulling double and triple shifts. Capacity was crushed.

But that didn't last many months, yet excess deaths continue to outpace measured Covid.

....you proved my point, in your own friggen words It would have been easier to just say. I agree, but disagree on the total lockdown.

hmmm, trying reading it again.

Your key point was total, "complete shutdown of society" ...not remotely correct. And then we took our foot off the gas at the end of the most intense push, just when we knew we needed another month.

and why the trauma over my finding something to agree with, albeit with some nuance?

Okay 95% of the country damned near shut down...nuance enough?