LaxPower Back-Up Stick

The season is already over - can't possibly be successful with those awful STX lids.

JHU will likely have 4-5 years at least with PM.
So I guess, let's hope this turns out more like Brecht rather than Sowell/Amplo?

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:34 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:06 am

Ruffled_Feathers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:00 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:48 am https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ins-/60301

"The Blue Jays are 11-18 over the last two seasons and have missed the NCAA tournament both years. I asked Milliman after practice whether he feels an increased pressure to win in this, his third season, and he flatly said “No.”"

I can't ever imagine Chic or Zim ever saying anything like that.
Proves my points absolutely.

Apples to Oranges; sure its hard to imagine those things. Those guys also had completely loaded rosters with the best of the best playing on them and everyone in the world knew it. You take one look at our roster and completely understand why we are where we are. I'm sure the admins would like to see improvement but they understand Rome wasn't built in a day and you've still got 2 and a half classes worth of guys you and your staff didn't even initially recruit. If things don't start looking up next year or the year after you and your hire are going to be having some hard conversations but until then I'm sure the discussion was had at hiring about expectation setting and timelines.

This quote is the absolute smoking gun of my argument.
He's saying he doesn't feel pressure to win because someone told him not to worry about it.
Have you not eyes yet cannot see, have you not ears yet cannot hear?

I don't understand how you don't see how ridiculous you sound.

PM likely got what ANY new hire gets — a few years to build a new system, get his guys, instill a new culture, etc. If at or near the end of his contract things haven't turned around, they'll move on. It's not a lifetime appointment. Whoever they hired would be getting the same benefit and whoever they hire next — whether that's in two years or 20 — will get that as well because that's how it works. This isn't the NFL where they fire you after one or two years. Brecht went 9 years at Rutgers without making the NCAA tournament and you didn't really hear a whole lot about him being in cahoots with their admin to secretly tank the lacrosse program for reasons unknown. This is PM's only second normal season with a fall ball and third overall. Find me a lacrosse coach in recent memory at a relevant program who was not afforded at least 4-5 years (not counting instances where there was an off-field fiasco, like with DeLuca at Cornell). I'll wait.

Andy Shay was 35-45 his first 6 seasons at Yale with the 5th and 6th seasons being 4-10 and 5-8. 121-45 since then.

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:06 am

Ruffled_Feathers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:00 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:48 am https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ins-/60301

"The Blue Jays are 11-18 over the last two seasons and have missed the NCAA tournament both years. I asked Milliman after practice whether he feels an increased pressure to win in this, his third season, and he flatly said “No.”"

I can't ever imagine Chic or Zim ever saying anything like that.
Proves my points absolutely.

Apples to Oranges; sure its hard to imagine those things. Those guys also had completely loaded rosters with the best of the best playing on them and everyone in the world knew it. You take one look at our roster and completely understand why we are where we are. I'm sure the admins would like to see improvement but they understand Rome wasn't built in a day and you've still got 2 and a half classes worth of guys you and your staff didn't even initially recruit. If things don't start looking up next year or the year after you and your hire are going to be having some hard conversations but until then I'm sure the discussion was had at hiring about expectation setting and timelines.

This quote is the absolute smoking gun of my argument.
He's saying he doesn't feel pressure to win because someone told him not to worry about it.
Have you not eyes yet cannot see, have you not ears yet cannot hear?

If you take it literally, he was asked if he felt "increased" pressure to win. Maybe he felt so much pressure to win his first and second season at Hopkins he doesn't feel the pressure to win could be increased?

I'm sure its part of that but if you actually read the article it ultimately ends up being some level of coach speak when he elaborates. Wins and losses ultimately will matter for his job security one day but right now and "in his mind we don't think about Wins and Losses", its about playing "the right way" making "the right decisions". Playing for the man next to you and some other such thing. Y'know but he and Foy in the article actually describe it in such a way that you actually feel inspired rather than roll your eyes at what you may interpret as platitudes

I don't know if he actually believes it, never met the man, but I did appreciate the answer and do feel inspired/optimistic after reading it.

I've been reading all this stuff about facilities, football, etc...

Exactly which schools have markedly better facilities for lacrosse, whether practice, training or venue for games? Which have better training departments providing better support to their lax players? Which have better technology support, better back-office support?

Which programs pay markedly more for their coaching staff?

Where are they better and what aspects exactly?
I suspect that the Friends of Hopkins Lacrosse (or whatever they're called) have analyzed any such gaps and, if they exist, will fund raise to meet those gaps. That's been a key strength of the program, the financial largesse of its alumni donors.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hopkins' decades of preeminence in the sport, a constant 1-4 finisher with many, many championships, that sort of super dominance is over, but the program should be very competitive with the very best in the Ivy League...and that's darn terrific, right? Championships within reach...

I see no reason why not unless the alumni p-ss and moan and stop supporting the program.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:16 am
I see no reason why not unless the alumni p-ss and moan and stop supporting the program.

We're all delighted with the sub-.500 records, the historic losses to Delaware and Navy, and with our star attackman now playing in College Park.

Ruffled_Feathers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:13 am I'm sure its part of that but if you actually read the article it ultimately ends up being some level of coach speak when he elaborates. Wins and losses ultimately will matter for his job security one day but right now and "in his mind we don't think about Wins and Losses", its about playing "the right way" making "the right decisions". Playing for the man next to you and some other such thing. Y'know but he and Foy in the article actually describe it in such a way that you actually feel inspired rather than roll your eyes at what you may interpret as platitudes

I don't know if he actually believes it, never met the man, but I did appreciate the answer and do feel inspired/optimistic after reading it.

I'm sorry, but that was like the lamest article ever. It took PM three years to explain to the team the importance of running out potential shots.
I can recall vividly Chic screaming to an attackman from across the field during practice " Did you have a shot? Did you have a shot?"
Woke era=losers
Thank you Jen Baker

They're all puff pieces, this one isn't more offensive than any other and offered some fine insight and information.

While I don't do anything to support the team beyond pay for tickets and show up as a fan I gotta say as a lifelong fan and younger alum (at least compared to some of you geezers) I'm having a blast in some respects here. Delighted? Nah, I'd generally prefer the team do well but I trust that they'll find a way back to proper relevance here in a little bit. For most of my life JHU has been the "have" rather than the "have not"; the favorite as opposed to the underdog. There's a certain kind of fun you can only have from this perspective and position of rebuilding from the ground up. Its not the end of the world that we get to experience this.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:05 am

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:34 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:06 am

Ruffled_Feathers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:00 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:48 am https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ins-/60301

"The Blue Jays are 11-18 over the last two seasons and have missed the NCAA tournament both years. I asked Milliman after practice whether he feels an increased pressure to win in this, his third season, and he flatly said “No.”"

I can't ever imagine Chic or Zim ever saying anything like that.
Proves my points absolutely.

Apples to Oranges; sure its hard to imagine those things. Those guys also had completely loaded rosters with the best of the best playing on them and everyone in the world knew it. You take one look at our roster and completely understand why we are where we are. I'm sure the admins would like to see improvement but they understand Rome wasn't built in a day and you've still got 2 and a half classes worth of guys you and your staff didn't even initially recruit. If things don't start looking up next year or the year after you and your hire are going to be having some hard conversations but until then I'm sure the discussion was had at hiring about expectation setting and timelines.

This quote is the absolute smoking gun of my argument.
He's saying he doesn't feel pressure to win because someone told him not to worry about it.
Have you not eyes yet cannot see, have you not ears yet cannot hear?

I don't understand how you don't see how ridiculous you sound.

PM likely got what ANY new hire gets — a few years to build a new system, get his guys, instill a new culture, etc. If at or near the end of his contract things haven't turned around, they'll move on. It's not a lifetime appointment. Whoever they hired would be getting the same benefit and whoever they hire next — whether that's in two years or 20 — will get that as well because that's how it works. This isn't the NFL where they fire you after one or two years. Brecht went 9 years at Rutgers without making the NCAA tournament and you didn't really hear a whole lot about him being in cahoots with their admin to secretly tank the lacrosse program for reasons unknown. This is PM's only second normal season with a fall ball and third overall. Find me a lacrosse coach in recent memory at a relevant program who was not afforded at least 4-5 years (not counting instances where there was an off-field fiasco, like with DeLuca at Cornell). I'll wait.

Andy Shay was 35-45 his first 6 seasons at Yale with the 5th and 6th seasons being 4-10 and 5-8. 121-45 since then.

What sparked the turnaround?
A minimum of 6 years of losing is the key?

The only answer that makes any sense is that they got a new AD and University President

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:55 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:05 am

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:34 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:06 am

Ruffled_Feathers wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:00 am

Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:48 am https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ins-/60301

"The Blue Jays are 11-18 over the last two seasons and have missed the NCAA tournament both years. I asked Milliman after practice whether he feels an increased pressure to win in this, his third season, and he flatly said “No.”"

I can't ever imagine Chic or Zim ever saying anything like that.
Proves my points absolutely.

Apples to Oranges; sure its hard to imagine those things. Those guys also had completely loaded rosters with the best of the best playing on them and everyone in the world knew it. You take one look at our roster and completely understand why we are where we are. I'm sure the admins would like to see improvement but they understand Rome wasn't built in a day and you've still got 2 and a half classes worth of guys you and your staff didn't even initially recruit. If things don't start looking up next year or the year after you and your hire are going to be having some hard conversations but until then I'm sure the discussion was had at hiring about expectation setting and timelines.

This quote is the absolute smoking gun of my argument.
He's saying he doesn't feel pressure to win because someone told him not to worry about it.
Have you not eyes yet cannot see, have you not ears yet cannot hear?

I don't understand how you don't see how ridiculous you sound.

PM likely got what ANY new hire gets — a few years to build a new system, get his guys, instill a new culture, etc. If at or near the end of his contract things haven't turned around, they'll move on. It's not a lifetime appointment. Whoever they hired would be getting the same benefit and whoever they hire next — whether that's in two years or 20 — will get that as well because that's how it works. This isn't the NFL where they fire you after one or two years. Brecht went 9 years at Rutgers without making the NCAA tournament and you didn't really hear a whole lot about him being in cahoots with their admin to secretly tank the lacrosse program for reasons unknown. This is PM's only second normal season with a fall ball and third overall. Find me a lacrosse coach in recent memory at a relevant program who was not afforded at least 4-5 years (not counting instances where there was an off-field fiasco, like with DeLuca at Cornell). I'll wait.

Andy Shay was 35-45 his first 6 seasons at Yale with the 5th and 6th seasons being 4-10 and 5-8. 121-45 since then.

What sparked the turnaround?
A minimum of 6 years of losing is the key?

Money helped a lot in building the staff (coaching and support) and creating confidence that the program was serious.

It took quite awhile to build the culture and momentum, creating an expectation of winning, and then attracting the players who could actually compete at that level...a little luck helped too.

It's not as if Yale had much of a legacy of such, with a couple of years being the exception.

Hopkins has the advantage of a deep legacy, plenty of money (unless that dries up), and much looser admission requirements (though obviously higher than many of the non-Ivy powerhouses). With the Bloomberg money plus athletic scholarships, Hopkins has a significant advantage in that area too.

But Hopkins fans, for all their pluses, are far, far more critical of their players, their coaches, their administration (and that includes when they're winning!)...which maybe isn't such an hospitable place to play given alternatives which exude more positive feelings?

In order for the program to become a leading perennial contender, or at least always relevant, IMO the program is going to need to build a whole lot of momentum it lost over the past decade. Whether this coach and staff will accomplish it or not remains to be seen, but negativity from fans certainly isn't going to help with that momentum.

Just one old geezer's view.

They are no longer the only show in town. The changed landscape has made it hard for some Hop fans to accept. I think like Navy, they need to readjust their expectations. There are no longer just 10 teams playing lacrosse. This is no longer the 1960's or even the 80s. We are 4 years from an NCAA bid, 5 from a QF. And we're really 15 years since they had a legitimate shot at a championship.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:08 pm But Hopkins fans, for all their pluses, are far, far more critical of their players, their coaches, their administration (and that includes when they're winning!)

Is there any evidence this is true beyond the 2-3 anonymous message board posters? Many of them posting the same limited talking points over and over again? Not to mention, this thread (which by no means represents the Hopkins lacrosse community as a whole) is tainted with trolling, goading, and baiting from fans of other teams, which adds to an overall feeling of negativity.

From going to games/attending events/getting to know people in the Hopkins lax community, it's quite familial. The internet brings out the worst in people. And they represent a vocal minority in my experience.

One adjustment Navy had to make was spring FB practice.

Hopkins does not have Joe Tsai it has MB. I don’t view Hopkins and Yale as comparable.

Hopkins until MB’s +/-$1.5 billion financial aid donation did not have enough financial aid to accept the students it wanted to accept. The result was it was taking some students who were not as qualified as others and did not need aid. I believe if memory serves the fund drive that MB donated to was falling over a billion short of its goal until that gift.

I am not a believer in boosterism should be the raison d’etre. Too many pollyannas distort reality

The president of the JHU has played an important role in the lax program for a very long time and was part of the value propositiom

Back to the Schutt lids, I see.

As far as this season's team, I'm really excited about the defensive end, assuming we find a servicable goaltender. Mazzone is a huge addition and assuming you get something out of the Todaro/ Didden/ C. Brown combo we should be really good at that end of the field.

primitiveskills wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:53 pm Back to the Schutt lids, I see.

Nice to see someone else is focused on the important things. For once.

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:26 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:08 pm But Hopkins fans, for all their pluses, are far, far more critical of their players, their coaches, their administration (and that includes when they're winning!)

Is there any evidence this is true beyond the 2-3 anonymous message board posters? Many of them posting the same limited talking points over and over again? Not to mention, this thread (which by no means represents the Hopkins lacrosse community as a whole) is tainted with trolling, goading, and baiting from fans of other teams, which adds to an overall feeling of negativity.

From going to games/attending events/getting to know people in the Hopkins lax community, it's quite familial. The internet brings out the worst in people. And they represent a vocal minority in my experience.

I quite agree about the internet bringing out the worst...!!

I think I'm able to differentiate between those who are trolling and those who are actual fans of the program, or those like me for whom Hopkins is not my #1, but for which I have affinity for a whole variety of reasons.

So, I take your point.

However, I think it's fair to say that pre-internet as well, Hopkins fans have been vociferous when they were not content...and to be content meant a NC or bust, and even then some grousing. But obviously much more when the program wasn't winning NC's. Zimmerman coached 3 NC teams, a semi, a quarter then a runner-up, then out when lost in first round...Seaman then had 8 years of no NC's, but all quarters and semis..out...Haus gets to semis twice, then out...Petro got a much longer leash...but no better his first 4 years, then a NC in 5th and 7th years, but not again for more than a decade...out...

It's been a couple of years since I was in the stands on the Hop side, but yeah, commentary by alums was often quite critical...one kinda wanted to remind the fans that someone's mom or grandma might be sitting right in front of them...or a recruit...to be fair, I think there was a bit of a generational thing as my dad and his buddies used to be crazy critical of UVA teams and their players, to the point of it being uncomfortable to sit with them when they were grousing. Otherwise, it would be quite fun as the analysis tended to be very well informed...something I've always appreciated about Hop fans too.

OCanada wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:39 pm One adjustment Navy had to make was spring FB practice.

Hopkins does not have Joe Tsai it has MB. I don’t view Hopkins and Yale as comparable.

Hopkins until MB’s +/-$1.5 billion financial aid donation did not have enough financial aid to accept the students it wanted to accept. The result was it was taking some students who were not as qualified as others and did not need aid. I believe if memory serves the fund drive that MB donated to was falling over a billion short of its goal until that gift.

I am not a believer in boosterism should be the raison d’etre. Too many pollyannas distort reality

The president of the JHU has played an important role in the lax program for a very long time and was part of the value propositiom

Cordish and Cowan have provided the "Tsai" effect and I'd think there are or will be others of that level of program specific interest. Cowan has one grandson playing at Hop and another on the way.

Bloomberg addresses financial aid issue for financially strapped families, akin to Ivy support. Hop did just fine for decades without that level of support, but the Bloomberg indeed makes it possible to attend regardless of financial situation and without any athletic money. But Hop also has the full D1 athletic aid, which the Ivies do not employ. Net, Hopkins now has a big advantage going forward versus both Ivies and any of the Big 10, ACC, etc.

My point isn't to suggest equivalence between Yale and Hopkins, just pointing out that Hopkins will be in a position to compete on most any aspect...doesn't mean NC's are close at hand, just that the infrastructure is there to be in the hunt eventually.

I don't think all the necessary horses are there as yet, though.

kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:21 pm They are no longer the only show in town. The changed landscape has made it hard for some Hop fans to accept. I think like Navy, they need to readjust their expectations. There are no longer just 10 teams playing lacrosse. This is no longer the 1960's or even the 80s. We are 4 years from an NCAA bid, 5 from a QF. And we're really 15 years since they had a legitimate shot at a championship.

I agree that expectations should be checked to reality...but I don't see any impediment to being a contender again, though that's going to take time and resolve...and a little luck with talent and injuries.

We'll see.