LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:56 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:32 pm

Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:18 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:32 pm I like to think I'm realistic & pragmatic. I've never participated in a 12 step program, but I do seek the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.

Well, we can finally agree on something - you've obviously have never been in a 12-step program based upon your shallow reflection of what it really is if properly practiced and with TOTAL commitment to change for the better.

On the contrary, I have direct personal experience and a family member who has now been completely sober for just shy of 5,500 days. We are all thankful for every one of those days as well as every succeeding day and are way beyond accepting things that cannot change because we live the change EVERY DAY.

LIGHT YEARS beyond, too.

So do you maintain that the Serenity Prayer is helpful only if part of a 12 step program ?
Is it blasphemy to reference it in another context ?

Not necessarily and another demonstration of your winging it in a subject area where you have no expertise.
But, for you, another clueless statement about recovery.
Try the bible for your purpose and stop referencing things you have no clue about in the context of this discussion.

IMHO stick to lecturing others about aviation where you, at least have experience and expertise. I would certainly defer to your opinion in that realm but you are out of your element on this topic. No straight VFR or IFR rules when it comes living a sober life.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:00 pm

Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:56 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:32 pm

Kismet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:18 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:32 pm I like to think I'm realistic & pragmatic. I've never participated in a 12 step program, but I do seek the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.

Well, we can finally agree on something - you've obviously have never been in a 12-step program based upon your shallow reflection of what it really is if properly practiced and with TOTAL commitment to change for the better.

On the contrary, I have direct personal experience and a family member who has now been completely sober for just shy of 5,500 days. We are all thankful for every one of those days as well as every succeeding day and are way beyond accepting things that cannot change because we live the change EVERY DAY.

LIGHT YEARS beyond, too.

So do you maintain that the Serenity Prayer is helpful only if part of a 12 step program ?
Is it blasphemy to reference it in another context ?

Not necessarily and another demonstration of your winging it in a subject area where you have no expertise.
But, for you, another clueless statement about recovery.
Try the bible for your purpose and stop referencing things you have no clue about in the context of this discussion.

IMHO stick to lecturing others about aviation where you, at least have experience and expertise. I would certainly defer to your opinion in that realm but you are out of your element on this topic. No straight VFR or IFR rules when it comes living a sober life.

Got it. It's only blasphemy when I use it.
It's rather arrogant to think that you're the only one with friends or loved ones in recovery ?

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:40 pm I agree with Barr. Absentee voting is fine. Voting via unsolicited mail in ballots, with last minute preparations, in states which have not done so before, is ripe for abuse. Any fraud or abuse undermines & dishonors the efforts of tens of thousands of poll workers.

njbill wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:08 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:40 pm I agree with Barr. Absentee voting is fine. Voting via unsolicited mail in ballots, with last minute preparations, in states which have not done so before, is ripe for abuse. Any fraud or abuse undermines & dishonors the efforts of tens of thousands of poll workers.

I don’t agree about fraud or abuse. Theoretically possible? Sure. But you can say the same about virtually any other human endeavor.

Was there actually fraud or abuse? If you think so, prove it, don’t just speculate. Zid and her partner in crime claim dead people (Hugo Chavez) and aliens fixed this election. Really nothing needs to be said about that. The judges are taking care of these two charlatans.

Anytime humans do something more than 150 million times, there will be some mistakes. That’s why in most or all states there is a process to canvas the ballots, do double checks, etc. before final certifications are done. It is not uncommon to find small errors, as has been the case here. But in the overwhelming number of cases, if not all of them, the errors were simply human mistakes.

My conclusion, after having been through the mail in ballot process twice now (primary and general) and read an awful lot on the subject (as have many), is that the best practice is for each state to mail a ballot to each registered voter. No request is needed. If a voter is required to request a ballot, the voter has to do extra, unnecessary work, as does the election official who must process the request and then process the mail in ballot.

There are sufficient safeguards in the system to ensure that the ballot that was sent in was actually cast by the registered voter.

You don’t need to apply for an admission ticket to go to the polls if you want to vote in person. Functionally, that really isn’t any different from a requirement that a voter apply for a mail in ballot.

In terms of voter security, up until 2020, I have always voted in person. How is my identity checked? A 90 year old blind poll worker is supposed to “check” that my signature matches the signature in her voter book. She may or may not look at my signature. I could sign the name Mickey Mouse and I would be given a ticket to vote.

Were there some glitches in this election, which was the first time many states allowed widespread mail in balloting? Sure. Both voters and election officials were getting used to the process for the first time. But there has to be a first time for everything. It so happens that the first time for mail in balloting was 2020. So what?

I have no problems with each state conducting studies after the fact to see if changes could be made to improve things in the next election. I suspect most states are already doing that.

My own two cents is that probably the biggest source of the problem was state legislatures which, for political reasons, came up with unreasonable, even unfair, rules. Now that we are past this exceedingly divisive election, hopefully tensions will cool and legislatures will revise state election laws to smooth out the process for the future.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:27 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:17 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:16 pm You continue to leap to conclusions & put words in my mouth. Unless there's evidence that the outcome could be altered, I haven't called for any certifications to be withheld or for the process to be disrupted in any way.

This is a total 180. But I'll play along.

Now you're telling me that you believe the elections were fair and fraud free until PROVEN otherwise?

I have that right?

Play with yourself in your absolutist, all-or-nothing game.

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:23 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:27 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:17 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:16 pm You continue to leap to conclusions & put words in my mouth. Unless there's evidence that the outcome could be altered, I haven't called for any certifications to be withheld or for the process to be disrupted in any way.

This is a total 180. But I'll play along.

Now you're telling me that you believe the elections were fair and fraud free until PROVEN otherwise?

I have that right?

Play with yourself in your absolutist, all-or-nothing game.

I think you're just having a bad day, and that's cool.

The "all or nothing" is......yep...one or the other.

You and been telling us that there's fraud for days now. THAT is what I'm reacting to. When I ask "where", you say you don't know. When I ask "how", you say you don't know. But it's there.

Now you've changed your mind. And are telling us you want more information.


The all or nothing, as you put it----is that you believe there is election fraud, even though you have no evidence-----or you don't believe that. Today? You're telling us that you don't believe there was fraud, and you'd like to hear more from State officials. Of course, you don't specify WHICH States, or why you think they're bad, but other States are fine, but whatever.

You've returned to planet Earth, where you need actual evidence of fraud before saying that it existed. And that's cool by me.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:35 pm I said there are numerous reports of fraud.

seacoaster wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:55 pm And in Nevada:

https://mobile.twitter.com/RalstonRepor ... 1817177088

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:54 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:35 pm I said there are numerous reports of fraud.

Of course there are. And there are also numerous "reports" that communists have infiltrated our Military at the highest level. Should we investigate that, too?

Barr already told you the DoJ is on it. Each individual State, as I've told you, is on it. They always are.

Again----volunteer as a pollster in your next election. It'll help.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:01 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:54 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:35 pm I said there are numerous reports of fraud.

Of course there are. And there are also numerous "reports" that communists have infiltrated our Military at the highest level. Should we investigate that, too?

Barr already told you the DoJ is on it. Each individual State, as I've told you, is on it. They always are.

Again----volunteer as a pollster in your next election. It'll help.

Fine. So why keep hectoring me while I wait for results, demanding my immediate conclusion.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:01 pm I'm flattered that you value my opinion so greatly.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:01 pm Go rub your puppy's nose in her poop to scratch your itch.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:35 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:23 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:27 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:17 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:16 pm You continue to leap to conclusions & put words in my mouth. Unless there's evidence that the outcome could be altered, I haven't called for any certifications to be withheld or for the process to be disrupted in any way.

This is a total 180. But I'll play along.

Now you're telling me that you believe the elections were fair and fraud free until PROVEN otherwise?

I have that right?

Play with yourself in your absolutist, all-or-nothing game.

I think you're just having a bad day, and that's cool.

The "all or nothing" is......yep...one or the other.

You and been telling us that there's fraud for days now. THAT is what I'm reacting to. When I ask "where", you say you don't know. When I ask "how", you say you don't know. But it's there.

Now you've changed your mind. And are telling us you want more information.


The all or nothing, as you put it----is that you believe there is election fraud, even though you have no evidence-----or you don't believe that. Today? You're telling us that you don't believe there was fraud, and you'd like to hear more from State officials. Of course, you don't specify WHICH States, or why you think they're bad, but other States are fine, but whatever.

You've returned to planet Earth, where you need actual evidence of fraud before saying that it existed. And that's cool by me.

I said there are numerous reports of fraud. I'm waiting for their investigation, verification, or debunking.
I don't have to decide right now. It's 2 years until the next national election.

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:12 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:01 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:54 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:35 pm I said there are numerous reports of fraud.

Of course there are. And there are also numerous "reports" that communists have infiltrated our Military at the highest level. Should we investigate that, too?

Barr already told you the DoJ is on it. Each individual State, as I've told you, is on it. They always are.

Again----volunteer as a pollster in your next election. It'll help.

Fine. So why keep hectoring me while I wait for results, demanding my immediate conclusion.

You really don't know? Because you've completely changed what you've been saying, that's why.

I don't care about your conclusion. I was reacting to you telling us that you think that there was fraud with no evidence of any, and then you demanded investigations when there was no evidence of fraud.

That's NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same thing as-------" I'm interested in what each State says about how the elections run after they do their post mortem".

The former is Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. The latter is reasonable. You've been giving us the former for days now....and you just switched to the latter.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:01 pm I'm flattered that you value my opinion so greatly.

Why do you think I'm here? OF COURSE I value your opinion. Actually, I value your opinion MORE because we're of entirely different minds on so many things. It makes me think, and keeps me learning. This place is the OPPOSITE of the social media echo chamber so many live in.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:01 pm Go rub your puppy's nose in her poop to scratch your itch.

Housebroke her a few weeks ago, we're good, thanks though.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:36 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:12 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:01 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:54 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:35 pm I said there are numerous reports of fraud.

Of course there are. And there are also numerous "reports" that communists have infiltrated our Military at the highest level. Should we investigate that, too?

Barr already told you the DoJ is on it. Each individual State, as I've told you, is on it. They always are.

Again----volunteer as a pollster in your next election. It'll help.

Fine. So why keep hectoring me while I wait for results, demanding my immediate conclusion.

You really don't know? Because you've completely changed what you've been saying, that's why.

I don't care about your conclusion. I was reacting to you telling us that you think that there was fraud with no evidence of any, and then you demanded investigations when there was no evidence of fraud.

That's NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same thing as-------" I'm interested in what each State says about how the elections run after they do their post mortem".

The former is Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. The latter is reasonable. You've been giving us the former for days now....and you just switched to the latter.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:01 pm I'm flattered that you value my opinion so greatly.

Why do you think I'm here? OF COURSE I value your opinion. Actually, I value your opinion MORE because we're of entirely different minds on so many things. It makes me think, and keeps me learning. This place is the OPPOSITE of the social media echo chamber so many live in.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:01 pm Go rub your puppy's nose in her poop to scratch your itch.

Housebroke her a few weeks ago, we're good, thanks though.

I told you what Jimmy Carter & James Baker told us.
Congrats on the puppy milestone, ...you're still using the metaphor.

njbill wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:47 pm Possibility is what the Jimmys said. Possibility. Not probability. Not certainty.

Possibility gets you nowhere in any court. Doesn’t even get you a search warrant.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:49 pm https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/20 ... 50620.html

The nonpartisan 2005 Commission on Federal Election Reform, co-chaired by former U.S. President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, noted among its many findings and recommendations that because it takes place outside the regulated environment of local polling locations, voting by mail creates increased logistical challenges and the potential for vote fraud, especially if safeguards are lacking or when candidates or political party activists are allowed to handle mail-in or absentee ballots.

However, the Carter-Baker Commission found that where safeguards for ballot integrity are in place – for example in Oregon, where the entire state has voted by mail since 1998 – there was little evidence of voter fraud. The commission’s main recommendations on vote-by-mail and absentee voting were to increase research on vote-by-mail (and early voting) and to eliminate the practice of allowing candidates or party workers to pick up and deliver absentee ballots. Fortunately, since 2005, many states have gained substantial experience in vote-by-mail and have shown how key concerns can be effectively addressed through appropriate planning, resources, training, and messaging.

old salt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:24 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:49 pm https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/20 ... 50620.html

The nonpartisan 2005 Commission on Federal Election Reform, co-chaired by former U.S. President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, noted among its many findings and recommendations that because it takes place outside the regulated environment of local polling locations, voting by mail creates increased logistical challenges and the potential for vote fraud, especially if safeguards are lacking or when candidates or political party activists are allowed to handle mail-in or absentee ballots.

However, the Carter-Baker Commission found that where safeguards for ballot integrity are in place – for example in Oregon, where the entire state has voted by mail since 1998 – there was little evidence of voter fraud. The commission’s main recommendations on vote-by-mail and absentee voting were to increase research on vote-by-mail (and early voting) and to eliminate the practice of allowing candidates or party workers to pick up and deliver absentee ballots. Fortunately, since 2005, many states have gained substantial experience in vote-by-mail and have shown how key concerns can be effectively addressed through appropriate planning, resources, training, and messaging.

I saw a report that prior to this election, only 5 states had voting via universal unsolicited mail in ballots.

The other states cobbled together their procedures during the weeks & months before the election due to the pandemic.
A scenario the Carter-Baker Commission had no reason to forsee.
That's Carter Center 2020 revisionism. Did James Baker sign off on that ?