LaxPower Back-Up Stick

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:03 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:27 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:19 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:53 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:14 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:31 pm ...Trump was using all those taxpayer $$$ he grifted from overnighting USAF flt crews in Scotland.

So double down, and pretend like that one transaction is the only unethical TrumpFamily grift.

And then come back at us with your piddly Hunter Biden nonsense that the freaking Trump-led FBI already looked at....and said "meh".

Difference between you and I? I called out Joe's obvious lack of ethics with Hunter's joke of a "job" when it happened.

Pity you can't make the same claim about you cheering on Trump's corruption.

I predict that accounting will show that claims of Trump cashing in on his govt service are greatly overstated.
He was in the hospitality industry before he was elected. He & his family maintained their properties, charged market rates & did not expand their holdings. They offered a service for market based prices. Has any Trump family member received consulting or lobbying fees comparable to Hunter & James Biden ? Again -- I'm calling for media scrutiny, not FBI investigation. I know that's a difficult distinction for you.

Dude, governments were renting rooms from Trump and not using them.

The hookers got lost enroute.

There it is again.

You're unable to have an adult conversation about Trump and Republicans. You simply can't do it. Collecting no-show rent from the Chinese is serious sh*t. Particularly so when you realize that Trump (and therefore, your fellow Americans) got rolled by the Chinese in Trump's fake Trade war.

Every time anyone brings Trump's nonsense up, out comes the mockery and excuses from you....no matter the subject. You seem to think Trump is still working in Hollywood, instead of the leader of the free world....so meh, no big deal if he's an unethical POS.

The millisecond you turn your attention to anyone with a D by their name, suddenly you take on your imperious Academy grad persona, and feign seriousness over ethics in government. Rules suddenly matter. Ethics suddenly matter.

It's silly. You're better than this.

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:36 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:35 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:29 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:24 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:55 pm

calourie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:03 pmOne last "Come on" Salty. You are going out of your way to continue to support and make false equivalancies for a man who is currently doing all he can to undermine America's belief in democratic principles and the execution of fair elections. This is a travesty, and you are certainly smart enough to know better than to continue to act as though this behavior hasn't been applied throughout his four years in office. Each to his own, I suppose, and there is no reason for you to give a rip about my point of view, but I will say it is just sad to see you fight tooth and nail to defend such an un-American abomination after all the service you have rendered this country.

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. I smell more than one rat. Trump's opponents look good only in contrast to him. Biden deserves the same media scrutiny which Trump received, not the media tongue bath he recieved during the campaign. Trump will soon be yesterday's story. Let's see how Biden's policies toward Ukraine, Russia & China play out. Will Biden add Belarus to Ukraine & Georgia on his NATO membership dance card ? Will he follow through on Obama's promised pivot to Asia, which Trump was the only one to act upon , or will he tell us again that the Communist Chinese aren't such bad guys ? Will he defend Taiwan & stand up for the rights of Hong Kong with the same fervor he supported Ukraine ? Will he continue to pressure our NATO & Pacific allies to contribute more to our common defense ? Let's see what he does.
IMHO, we made great strides the past 4 years on the national security front. To me, that was worth putting up with Trump. Results & readiness over rhetoric & symbolism. Let's see how Putin & Xi respond to soft power & empty, soaring rhetoric, not to mention Kim & the Mullahs.
Be well.

Biden was duly elected. His supporters will be ok with his foreign policy decisions....otherwise they would not have voted for him. Elections have consequences and Biden’s decisions will reflect the will of the people.....

Agree. I am not advocating a coup or a Resistance. A Loyal Opposition has a duty to offer constructive questioning & advice.

Un huh.

For MD -- to be effective, soft power must be a velvet glove covering an iron fist (to paraphrase James Baker, Trump voter).

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:16 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:36 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:35 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:29 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:24 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:55 pm

calourie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:03 pmOne last "Come on" Salty. You are going out of your way to continue to support and make false equivalancies for a man who is currently doing all he can to undermine America's belief in democratic principles and the execution of fair elections. This is a travesty, and you are certainly smart enough to know better than to continue to act as though this behavior hasn't been applied throughout his four years in office. Each to his own, I suppose, and there is no reason for you to give a rip about my point of view, but I will say it is just sad to see you fight tooth and nail to defend such an un-American abomination after all the service you have rendered this country.

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. I smell more than one rat. Trump's opponents look good only in contrast to him. Biden deserves the same media scrutiny which Trump received, not the media tongue bath he recieved during the campaign. Trump will soon be yesterday's story. Let's see how Biden's policies toward Ukraine, Russia & China play out. Will Biden add Belarus to Ukraine & Georgia on his NATO membership dance card ? Will he follow through on Obama's promised pivot to Asia, which Trump was the only one to act upon , or will he tell us again that the Communist Chinese aren't such bad guys ? Will he defend Taiwan & stand up for the rights of Hong Kong with the same fervor he supported Ukraine ? Will he continue to pressure our NATO & Pacific allies to contribute more to our common defense ? Let's see what he does.
IMHO, we made great strides the past 4 years on the national security front. To me, that was worth putting up with Trump. Results & readiness over rhetoric & symbolism. Let's see how Putin & Xi respond to soft power & empty, soaring rhetoric, not to mention Kim & the Mullahs.
Be well.

Biden was duly elected. His supporters will be ok with his foreign policy decisions....otherwise they would not have voted for him. Elections have consequences and Biden’s decisions will reflect the will of the people.....

Agree. I am not advocating a coup or a Resistance. A Loyal Opposition has a duty to offer constructive questioning & advice.

Un huh.

For MD -- to be effective, soft power must be a velvet glove covering an iron fist (to paraphrase James Baker, Trump voter).

Salty, others can more completely address your rampant hypocrisy.
IMO, Trumpists aren't remotely "Loyal Opposition" and fealty to Trumpism has become immensely destructive to America's strength in the world.

However, let me also say to the point, which you addressed specifically to me, that I agree with Baker's fundamental point re soft power, though I'd put much more emphasis on the importance of that soft power than he ever did. (while disappointing, it's not a total surprise that Baker at 90 is so caught up in Fox world...that said, I don't have any doubt as to where HW would be on Trump)

I think projecting power and influence in the world is multi-faceted, not uni-dimensional, and America's greatest 'strength' in doing so has been the moral vision we have successfully espoused, albeit imperfectly executed, both home and abroad. Getting that better, both at home and abroad, should be paramount going forward.

But that doesn't mean we should be naive about the importance of military strength.

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:03 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:27 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:19 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:53 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:14 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:31 pm ...Trump was using all those taxpayer $$$ he grifted from overnighting USAF flt crews in Scotland.

So double down, and pretend like that one transaction is the only unethical TrumpFamily grift.

And then come back at us with your piddly Hunter Biden nonsense that the freaking Trump-led FBI already looked at....and said "meh".

Difference between you and I? I called out Joe's obvious lack of ethics with Hunter's joke of a "job" when it happened.

Pity you can't make the same claim about you cheering on Trump's corruption.

I predict that accounting will show that claims of Trump cashing in on his govt service are greatly overstated.
He was in the hospitality industry before he was elected. He & his family maintained their properties, charged market rates & did not expand their holdings. They offered a service for market based prices. Has any Trump family member received consulting or lobbying fees comparable to Hunter & James Biden ? Again -- I'm calling for media scrutiny, not FBI investigation. I know that's a difficult distinction for you.

Dude, governments were renting rooms from Trump and not using them.

The hookers got lost enroute.

There it is again.

You're unable to have an adult conversation about Trump and Republicans. You simply can't do it. Collecting no-show rent from the Chinese is serious sh*t. Particularly so when you realize that Trump (and therefore, your fellow Americans) got rolled by the Chinese in Trump's fake Trade war.

Every time anyone brings Trump's nonsense up, out comes the mockery and excuses from you....no matter the subject. You seem to think Trump is still working in Hollywood, instead of the leader of the free world....so meh, no big deal if he's an unethical POS.

The millisecond you turn your attention to anyone with a D by their name, suddenly you take on your imperious Academy grad persona, and feign seriousness over ethics in government. Rules suddenly matter. Ethics suddenly matter.

It's silly. You're better than this.

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:25 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:16 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:36 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:35 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:29 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:24 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:55 pm

calourie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:03 pmOne last "Come on" Salty. You are going out of your way to continue to support and make false equivalancies for a man who is currently doing all he can to undermine America's belief in democratic principles and the execution of fair elections. This is a travesty, and you are certainly smart enough to know better than to continue to act as though this behavior hasn't been applied throughout his four years in office. Each to his own, I suppose, and there is no reason for you to give a rip about my point of view, but I will say it is just sad to see you fight tooth and nail to defend such an un-American abomination after all the service you have rendered this country.

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. I smell more than one rat. Trump's opponents look good only in contrast to him. Biden deserves the same media scrutiny which Trump received, not the media tongue bath he recieved during the campaign. Trump will soon be yesterday's story. Let's see how Biden's policies toward Ukraine, Russia & China play out. Will Biden add Belarus to Ukraine & Georgia on his NATO membership dance card ? Will he follow through on Obama's promised pivot to Asia, which Trump was the only one to act upon , or will he tell us again that the Communist Chinese aren't such bad guys ? Will he defend Taiwan & stand up for the rights of Hong Kong with the same fervor he supported Ukraine ? Will he continue to pressure our NATO & Pacific allies to contribute more to our common defense ? Let's see what he does.
IMHO, we made great strides the past 4 years on the national security front. To me, that was worth putting up with Trump. Results & readiness over rhetoric & symbolism. Let's see how Putin & Xi respond to soft power & empty, soaring rhetoric, not to mention Kim & the Mullahs.
Be well.

Biden was duly elected. His supporters will be ok with his foreign policy decisions....otherwise they would not have voted for him. Elections have consequences and Biden’s decisions will reflect the will of the people.....

Agree. I am not advocating a coup or a Resistance. A Loyal Opposition has a duty to offer constructive questioning & advice.

Un huh.

For MD -- to be effective, soft power must be a velvet glove covering an iron fist (to paraphrase James Baker, Trump voter).

Salty, others can more completely address your rampant hypocrisy.
IMO, Trumpists aren't remotely "Loyal Opposition" and fealty to Trumpism has become immensely destructive to America's strength in the world.

However, let me also say to the point, which you addressed specifically to me, that I agree with Baker's fundamental point re soft power, though I'd put much more emphasis on the importance of that soft power than he ever did. (while disappointing, it's not a total surprise that Baker at 90 is so caught up in Fox world...that said, I don't have any doubt as to where HW would be on Trump)

I think projecting power and influence in the world is multi-faceted, not uni-dimensional, and America's greatest 'strength' in doing so has been the moral vision we have successfully espoused, albeit imperfectly executed, both home and abroad. Getting that better, both at home and abroad, should be paramount going forward.

But that doesn't mean we should be naive about the importance of military strength.

Moral vision ? How many divisions does the Pope have ?

How has that moral vision worked out in our post-Cold War nation building adventures ?
Our moral vision allowed our German allies to sit on their asses for the past 3 decades.
30 years of moral vision immediately followed up by a Hellfire missile.

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Another "if true" bombshell. Like your attentive yeoman farmer audience, I remain in envy of your Socratic persona.

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Did you order out from the French Laundry for Thanksgiving dinner ?

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:37 am

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:25 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:16 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:36 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:35 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:29 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:24 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:55 pm

calourie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:03 pmOne last "Come on" Salty. You are going out of your way to continue to support and make false equivalancies for a man who is currently doing all he can to undermine America's belief in democratic principles and the execution of fair elections. This is a travesty, and you are certainly smart enough to know better than to continue to act as though this behavior hasn't been applied throughout his four years in office. Each to his own, I suppose, and there is no reason for you to give a rip about my point of view, but I will say it is just sad to see you fight tooth and nail to defend such an un-American abomination after all the service you have rendered this country.

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. I smell more than one rat. Trump's opponents look good only in contrast to him. Biden deserves the same media scrutiny which Trump received, not the media tongue bath he recieved during the campaign. Trump will soon be yesterday's story. Let's see how Biden's policies toward Ukraine, Russia & China play out. Will Biden add Belarus to Ukraine & Georgia on his NATO membership dance card ? Will he follow through on Obama's promised pivot to Asia, which Trump was the only one to act upon , or will he tell us again that the Communist Chinese aren't such bad guys ? Will he defend Taiwan & stand up for the rights of Hong Kong with the same fervor he supported Ukraine ? Will he continue to pressure our NATO & Pacific allies to contribute more to our common defense ? Let's see what he does.
IMHO, we made great strides the past 4 years on the national security front. To me, that was worth putting up with Trump. Results & readiness over rhetoric & symbolism. Let's see how Putin & Xi respond to soft power & empty, soaring rhetoric, not to mention Kim & the Mullahs.
Be well.

Biden was duly elected. His supporters will be ok with his foreign policy decisions....otherwise they would not have voted for him. Elections have consequences and Biden’s decisions will reflect the will of the people.....

Agree. I am not advocating a coup or a Resistance. A Loyal Opposition has a duty to offer constructive questioning & advice.

Un huh.

For MD -- to be effective, soft power must be a velvet glove covering an iron fist (to paraphrase James Baker, Trump voter).

Salty, others can more completely address your rampant hypocrisy.
IMO, Trumpists aren't remotely "Loyal Opposition" and fealty to Trumpism has become immensely destructive to America's strength in the world.

However, let me also say to the point, which you addressed specifically to me, that I agree with Baker's fundamental point re soft power, though I'd put much more emphasis on the importance of that soft power than he ever did. (while disappointing, it's not a total surprise that Baker at 90 is so caught up in Fox world...that said, I don't have any doubt as to where HW would be on Trump)

I think projecting power and influence in the world is multi-faceted, not uni-dimensional, and America's greatest 'strength' in doing so has been the moral vision we have successfully espoused, albeit imperfectly executed, both home and abroad. Getting that better, both at home and abroad, should be paramount going forward.

But that doesn't mean we should be naive about the importance of military strength.

Moral vision ? How many divisions does the Pope have ?

How has that moral vision worked out in our post-Cold War nation building adventures ?
Our moral vision allowed our German allies to sit on their asses for the past 3 decades.
30 years of moral vision immediately followed up by a Hellfire missile.

Yup, that makes sense for you to caustically dismiss any contribution from moral vision to America's strength and influence internationally.

Got it.

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:33 am

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Another "if true" bombshell. Like your attentive yeoman farmer audience, I remain in envy of your Socratic persona.

So not playing your juvenile game of not holding Republicans to any standard whatsoever, while insisting everyone else on Earth follow the law and behave ethically is Socratic?

Neat. Did you play this silly game while you served? Did they have one set of rules for Republican pilots, and another for the rest of us dumb non-Republicans? "Yeah, he like totally violated dozens of rules of the Navy Code of Ethics...but we're gonna promote him because he's a registered Republican"....

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Did you order out from the French Laundry for Thanksgiving dinner ?

You mean the French Laundry dinner that I ripped Newsom for having? Can you imagine that? Ripping a politician for unethical behavior regardless of what party he belonged to. You should try doing that. You might actually like it.


Spent the day at work with my family....then on to a nice early dinner at home. You?

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:26 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:33 am

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Another "if true" bombshell. Like your attentive yeoman farmer audience, I remain in envy of your Socratic persona.

So not playing your juvenile game of not holding Republicans to any standard whatsoever, while insisting everyone else on Earth follow the law and behave ethically is Socratic?

Neat. Did you play this silly game while you served? Did they have one set of rules for Republican pilots, and another for the rest of us dumb non-Republicans? "Yeah, he like totally violated dozens of rules of the Navy Code of Ethics...but we're gonna promote him because he's a registered Republican"....

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Did you order out from the French Laundry for Thanksgiving dinner ?

You mean the French Laundry dinner that I ripped Newsom for having? Can you imagine that? Ripping a politician for unethical behavior regardless of what party he belonged to. You should try doing that. You might actually like it.


Spent the day at work with my family....then on to a nice early dinner at home. You?

I say again -- I just want the media to level the same scrutiny on Biden & family that they do on Trump & family.
I'm not complaining that any of it is illegal. It's political. If we need to know about every Trump property room rental, we need to know about Biden family influence peddling, how it correlated with US aid, & how it could impact Biden's dealings as President. ...just as every action by Trump, vis a vis Russia, is scrutinized as if he's a Russian agent.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:37 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:26 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:33 am

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Another "if true" bombshell. Like your attentive yeoman farmer audience, I remain in envy of your Socratic persona.

So not playing your juvenile game of not holding Republicans to any standard whatsoever, while insisting everyone else on Earth follow the law and behave ethically is Socratic?

Neat. Did you play this silly game while you served? Did they have one set of rules for Republican pilots, and another for the rest of us dumb non-Republicans? "Yeah, he like totally violated dozens of rules of the Navy Code of Ethics...but we're gonna promote him because he's a registered Republican"....

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Did you order out from the French Laundry for Thanksgiving dinner ?

You mean the French Laundry dinner that I ripped Newsom for having? Can you imagine that? Ripping a politician for unethical behavior regardless of what party he belonged to. You should try doing that. You might actually like it.


Spent the day at work with my family....then on to a nice early dinner at home. You?

I say again -- I just want the media to level the same scrutiny on Biden & family that they do on Trump & family.
I'm not complaining that any of it is illegal. It's political. If we need to know about every Trump property room rental, we need to know about Biden family influence peddling, how it correlated with US aid, & how it could impact Biden's dealings as President. ...just as every action by Trump, vis a vis Russia, is scrutinized as if he's a Russian agent.

We just want you to not care like you didn’t care with Trump!..... “sense” you can’t control the media but you can control your actions.

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:51 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:37 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:26 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:33 am

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Another "if true" bombshell. Like your attentive yeoman farmer audience, I remain in envy of your Socratic persona.

So not playing your juvenile game of not holding Republicans to any standard whatsoever, while insisting everyone else on Earth follow the law and behave ethically is Socratic?

Neat. Did you play this silly game while you served? Did they have one set of rules for Republican pilots, and another for the rest of us dumb non-Republicans? "Yeah, he like totally violated dozens of rules of the Navy Code of Ethics...but we're gonna promote him because he's a registered Republican"....

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Did you order out from the French Laundry for Thanksgiving dinner ?

You mean the French Laundry dinner that I ripped Newsom for having? Can you imagine that? Ripping a politician for unethical behavior regardless of what party he belonged to. You should try doing that. You might actually like it.


Spent the day at work with my family....then on to a nice early dinner at home. You?

I say again -- I just want the media to level the same scrutiny on Biden & family that they do on Trump & family.
I'm not complaining that any of it is illegal. It's political. If we need to know about every Trump property room rental, we need to know about Biden family influence peddling, how it correlated with US aid, & how it could impact Biden's dealings as President. ...just as every action by Trump, vis a vis Russia, is scrutinized as if he's a Russian agent.

We just want you to not care like you didn’t care with Trump!..... “sense” you can’t control the media but you can control your actions.

I need to know what happened before I can not care about it.

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:26 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:33 am

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Another "if true" bombshell. Like your attentive yeoman farmer audience, I remain in envy of your Socratic persona.

So not playing your juvenile game of not holding Republicans to any standard whatsoever, while insisting everyone else on Earth follow the law and behave ethically is Socratic?

Neat. Did you play this silly game while you served? Did they have one set of rules for Republican pilots, and another for the rest of us dumb non-Republicans? "Yeah, he like totally violated dozens of rules of the Navy Code of Ethics...but we're gonna promote him because he's a registered Republican"....

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Did you order out from the French Laundry for Thanksgiving dinner ?

You mean the French Laundry dinner that I ripped Newsom for having? Can you imagine that? Ripping a politician for unethical behavior regardless of what party he belonged to. You should try doing that. You might actually like it.


Spent the day at work with my family....then on to a nice early dinner at home. You?

I say again -- I just want the media to level the same scrutiny on Biden & family that they do on Trump & family.

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:57 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:44 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:36 pm
For MD -- to be effective, soft power must be a velvet glove covering an iron fist (to paraphrase James Baker, Trump voter).

And Trump did neither the velvet nor the iron with either Putin or China.

What he did instead was----give you and your fellow TrumpFans a bunch of BS, and keep right on trading with both countries. No velvet. No iron.

So Chinese imports to the US are exploding. And Putin is STILL messing with us via the internet.

And I told you what we should do with both four years ago. You made fun.

We are further behind with both Putin and China as a result.

Be intellectually honest. You deride Trump for BS'ing his supporters, then respond with the same level of superficiality.

Nobody can undo 3 decades of selling out our industrial capacity to China. You know we can't immediately embargo trade with China. Covid showed that. All we can do is protect a core of defense essential manufacturing & extraction capabilities, & claw back whatever manufacturing we can, on the margins. So what if Putin is messing with us on the internet ? What should we do about that ? We've already got him boxed in militarily & sanctioned to the max. Give him more public scoldings which he uses to bolster his domestic approval ratings ? Do you want to see our ships & planes colliding ? Our Tech oligarchs can censor him on the internet.

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:15 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:37 am

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:25 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:16 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:36 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:35 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:29 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:24 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:55 pm

calourie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:03 pmOne last "Come on" Salty. You are going out of your way to continue to support and make false equivalancies for a man who is currently doing all he can to undermine America's belief in democratic principles and the execution of fair elections. This is a travesty, and you are certainly smart enough to know better than to continue to act as though this behavior hasn't been applied throughout his four years in office. Each to his own, I suppose, and there is no reason for you to give a rip about my point of view, but I will say it is just sad to see you fight tooth and nail to defend such an un-American abomination after all the service you have rendered this country.

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. I smell more than one rat. Trump's opponents look good only in contrast to him. Biden deserves the same media scrutiny which Trump received, not the media tongue bath he recieved during the campaign. Trump will soon be yesterday's story. Let's see how Biden's policies toward Ukraine, Russia & China play out. Will Biden add Belarus to Ukraine & Georgia on his NATO membership dance card ? Will he follow through on Obama's promised pivot to Asia, which Trump was the only one to act upon , or will he tell us again that the Communist Chinese aren't such bad guys ? Will he defend Taiwan & stand up for the rights of Hong Kong with the same fervor he supported Ukraine ? Will he continue to pressure our NATO & Pacific allies to contribute more to our common defense ? Let's see what he does.
IMHO, we made great strides the past 4 years on the national security front. To me, that was worth putting up with Trump. Results & readiness over rhetoric & symbolism. Let's see how Putin & Xi respond to soft power & empty, soaring rhetoric, not to mention Kim & the Mullahs.
Be well.

Biden was duly elected. His supporters will be ok with his foreign policy decisions....otherwise they would not have voted for him. Elections have consequences and Biden’s decisions will reflect the will of the people.....

Agree. I am not advocating a coup or a Resistance. A Loyal Opposition has a duty to offer constructive questioning & advice.

Un huh.

For MD -- to be effective, soft power must be a velvet glove covering an iron fist (to paraphrase James Baker, Trump voter).

Salty, others can more completely address your rampant hypocrisy.
IMO, Trumpists aren't remotely "Loyal Opposition" and fealty to Trumpism has become immensely destructive to America's strength in the world.

However, let me also say to the point, which you addressed specifically to me, that I agree with Baker's fundamental point re soft power, though I'd put much more emphasis on the importance of that soft power than he ever did. (while disappointing, it's not a total surprise that Baker at 90 is so caught up in Fox world...that said, I don't have any doubt as to where HW would be on Trump)

I think projecting power and influence in the world is multi-faceted, not uni-dimensional, and America's greatest 'strength' in doing so has been the moral vision we have successfully espoused, albeit imperfectly executed, both home and abroad. Getting that better, both at home and abroad, should be paramount going forward.

But that doesn't mean we should be naive about the importance of military strength.

Moral vision ? How many divisions does the Pope have ?

How has that moral vision worked out in our post-Cold War nation building adventures ?
Our moral vision allowed our German allies to sit on their asses for the past 3 decades.
30 years of moral vision immediately followed up by a Hellfire missile.

Yup, that makes sense for you to caustically dismiss any contribution from moral vision to America's strength and influence internationally.

Got it.

I didn't sign up to fight for your ivory tower moral vision.
Soft power is just another name for empty rhetoric.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:16 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:15 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 8:37 am

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:25 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:16 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:36 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:35 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:29 pm

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:24 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:55 pm

calourie wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:03 pmOne last "Come on" Salty. You are going out of your way to continue to support and make false equivalancies for a man who is currently doing all he can to undermine America's belief in democratic principles and the execution of fair elections. This is a travesty, and you are certainly smart enough to know better than to continue to act as though this behavior hasn't been applied throughout his four years in office. Each to his own, I suppose, and there is no reason for you to give a rip about my point of view, but I will say it is just sad to see you fight tooth and nail to defend such an un-American abomination after all the service you have rendered this country.

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. I smell more than one rat. Trump's opponents look good only in contrast to him. Biden deserves the same media scrutiny which Trump received, not the media tongue bath he recieved during the campaign. Trump will soon be yesterday's story. Let's see how Biden's policies toward Ukraine, Russia & China play out. Will Biden add Belarus to Ukraine & Georgia on his NATO membership dance card ? Will he follow through on Obama's promised pivot to Asia, which Trump was the only one to act upon , or will he tell us again that the Communist Chinese aren't such bad guys ? Will he defend Taiwan & stand up for the rights of Hong Kong with the same fervor he supported Ukraine ? Will he continue to pressure our NATO & Pacific allies to contribute more to our common defense ? Let's see what he does.
IMHO, we made great strides the past 4 years on the national security front. To me, that was worth putting up with Trump. Results & readiness over rhetoric & symbolism. Let's see how Putin & Xi respond to soft power & empty, soaring rhetoric, not to mention Kim & the Mullahs.
Be well.

Biden was duly elected. His supporters will be ok with his foreign policy decisions....otherwise they would not have voted for him. Elections have consequences and Biden’s decisions will reflect the will of the people.....

Agree. I am not advocating a coup or a Resistance. A Loyal Opposition has a duty to offer constructive questioning & advice.

Un huh.

For MD -- to be effective, soft power must be a velvet glove covering an iron fist (to paraphrase James Baker, Trump voter).

Salty, others can more completely address your rampant hypocrisy.
IMO, Trumpists aren't remotely "Loyal Opposition" and fealty to Trumpism has become immensely destructive to America's strength in the world.

However, let me also say to the point, which you addressed specifically to me, that I agree with Baker's fundamental point re soft power, though I'd put much more emphasis on the importance of that soft power than he ever did. (while disappointing, it's not a total surprise that Baker at 90 is so caught up in Fox world...that said, I don't have any doubt as to where HW would be on Trump)

I think projecting power and influence in the world is multi-faceted, not uni-dimensional, and America's greatest 'strength' in doing so has been the moral vision we have successfully espoused, albeit imperfectly executed, both home and abroad. Getting that better, both at home and abroad, should be paramount going forward.

But that doesn't mean we should be naive about the importance of military strength.

Moral vision ? How many divisions does the Pope have ?

How has that moral vision worked out in our post-Cold War nation building adventures ?
Our moral vision allowed our German allies to sit on their asses for the past 3 decades.
30 years of moral vision immediately followed up by a Hellfire missile.

Yup, that makes sense for you to caustically dismiss any contribution from moral vision to America's strength and influence internationally.

Got it.

I didn't sign up to fight for your ivory tower moral vision.
Soft power is just another name for empty rhetoric.

So what did you sign up for, Salty?

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:11 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:57 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:44 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:36 pm
For MD -- to be effective, soft power must be a velvet glove covering an iron fist (to paraphrase James Baker, Trump voter).

And Trump did neither the velvet nor the iron with either Putin or China.

What he did instead was----give you and your fellow TrumpFans a bunch of BS, and keep right on trading with both countries. No velvet. No iron.

So Chinese imports to the US are exploding. And Putin is STILL messing with us via the internet.

And I told you what we should do with both four years ago. You made fun.

We are further behind with both Putin and China as a result.

Be intellectually honest. You deride Trump for BS'ing his supporters, then respond with the same level of superficiality.

Nobody can undo 3 decades of selling out our industrial capacity to China. You know we can't immediately embargo trade with China. Covid showed that. All we can do is protect a core of defense essential manufacturing & extraction capabilities, & claw back whatever manufacturing we can, on the margins. So what if Putin is messing with us on the internet ? What should we do about that ? We've already got him boxed in militarily & sanctioned to the max. Give him more public scoldings which he uses to bolster his domestic approval ratings ? Do you want to see our ships & planes colliding ? Our Tech oligarchs can censor him on the internet.

Messing with our Internet? A very anachronistic view of the world. Makes sense why you believe Russia is a non threat.

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:15 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:26 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:33 am

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Another "if true" bombshell. Like your attentive yeoman farmer audience, I remain in envy of your Socratic persona.

So not playing your juvenile game of not holding Republicans to any standard whatsoever, while insisting everyone else on Earth follow the law and behave ethically is Socratic?

Neat. Did you play this silly game while you served? Did they have one set of rules for Republican pilots, and another for the rest of us dumb non-Republicans? "Yeah, he like totally violated dozens of rules of the Navy Code of Ethics...but we're gonna promote him because he's a registered Republican"....

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Did you order out from the French Laundry for Thanksgiving dinner ?

You mean the French Laundry dinner that I ripped Newsom for having? Can you imagine that? Ripping a politician for unethical behavior regardless of what party he belonged to. You should try doing that. You might actually like it.


Spent the day at work with my family....then on to a nice early dinner at home. You?

I say again -- I just want the media to level the same scrutiny on Biden & family that they do on Trump & family.

Oh, I get it. So does TLD. What you want is for everyone to behave better than you did when Trump was the subject, instead of Biden.

You waved all of Trump's behavior through, and mocked anyone who called out Trump's corruption and lack of ethics. You and millions of your fellow TrumpFans did that for four long years.

Now that the shoe's on the other foot.....you want us all to do as you say, not as you did. It's hilarious. And I sincerely hope the media and the Dems mock your hilarious calls for ethics in governance without mercy. You will have earned every bit of what is coming, and have no one to blame but yourselves.

I told you this was coming. You made fun of me for it. Now it's the Dems turn to hold their nose, and ignore the Democrats' corruption because, like you, "they like his policies".

Oh well. Maybe next time you and your fellow Republicans will actually hold your leaders to a standard of behavior and ethics. I doubt you will, but there's always hope.

And as I said before----watch the left if you want to see how to behave in a Democracy. Not the Dems....the actual left. Biden arrives with two strikes in their eyes, and so does Kamala. They're not going to put up with Biden's cr*p.

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:20 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:15 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:26 pm

a fan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:33 am

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Another "if true" bombshell. Like your attentive yeoman farmer audience, I remain in envy of your Socratic persona.

So not playing your juvenile game of not holding Republicans to any standard whatsoever, while insisting everyone else on Earth follow the law and behave ethically is Socratic?

Neat. Did you play this silly game while you served? Did they have one set of rules for Republican pilots, and another for the rest of us dumb non-Republicans? "Yeah, he like totally violated dozens of rules of the Navy Code of Ethics...but we're gonna promote him because he's a registered Republican"....

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:27 pm Did you order out from the French Laundry for Thanksgiving dinner ?

You mean the French Laundry dinner that I ripped Newsom for having? Can you imagine that? Ripping a politician for unethical behavior regardless of what party he belonged to. You should try doing that. You might actually like it.


Spent the day at work with my family....then on to a nice early dinner at home. You?

I say again -- I just want the media to level the same scrutiny on Biden & family that they do on Trump & family.

Oh, I get it. So does TLD. What you want is for everyone to behave better than you did when Trump was the subject, instead of Biden.

You waved all of Trump's behavior through, and mocked anyone who called out Trump's corruption and lack of ethics. You and millions of your fellow TrumpFans did that for four long years.

Now that the shoe's on the other foot.....you want us all to do as you say, not as you did. It's hilarious. And I sincerely hope the media and the Dems mock your hilarious calls for ethics in governance without mercy. You will have earned every bit of what is coming, and have no one to blame but yourselves.

I told you this was coming. You made fun of me for it. Now it's the Dems turn to hold their nose, and ignore the Democrats' corruption because, like you, "they like his policies".

Oh well. Maybe next time you and your fellow Republicans will actually hold your leaders to a standard of behavior and ethics. I doubt you will, but there's always hope.

And as I said before----watch the left if you want to see how to behave in a Democracy. Not the Dems....the actual left. Biden arrives with two strikes in their eyes, and so does Kamala. They're not going to put up with Biden's cr*p.

I could care less what you & TLD do or say. When I care, I'll quote you. Our exchanges are usually me responding to your attacks.

I don't know how I'll react to what the Bidens did. The media won't tell me what they did & you shout me down whenever I ask.