Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[runrussellrun]

Do Minneapolis policy wear body cams? If so, why have we not seen the footage? We've only seen bystanders cell phone videos.

Why does more footage seem so important to you?

It's so simple to change policy and proceedures. So easy. Even for uneducated pigs.

[ggait]

Ellison will not release the video because the rumor is the videos show Floyd resisting arrest and hitting the officers.

Peter Brown continuing to show us what a completely worthless degenerate he is.

First, there is ZERO proof or evidence of what he says.

Second, Floyd's neck continued to be compressed for minutes after he stopped moving; after he stopped breathing; after his pulse was checked and none was found. So it is irrelevant what he did/did not do prior to the 9 minutes of neck restraint.

Please, Peter Brown, do us a favor and go away and not come back. You are not welcome.

The internet is a big place -- you can spew your garbage many other places. You need not make this little community a toxic waste dump.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://twitter.com/profmusgrave/status ... 66375?s=21

[Brooklyn]

An amazing man; he stopped liberalism in its tracks, until of course the 6th year of his presidency when he didn't know what his name was.

What a difference from Carter.

Actually unemployment and the national debt were higher under Reagan.

[Brooklyn]

You didn't build that!!!! Man, I envy all those corporate capitalists, and especially those ethanol farmers, who buy from Cat and John Deere because they like paying a lot for equipment. I'm sure they jump into their subsidized Cessna Citation 10's every Friday and go to 11 Madison Park for supper at about $500 a head before wine.

https://www.elevenmadisonpark.com/ourrestaurant/

You do realize corporations employ people, don't you? You want everyone to be an employee of the government? That would work out well. Greece, anyone? I hear Santorini is lovely, if you can afford it, which very few Greeks can.

Sure but they also shelter trillions of dollars they get from the government and from business every year. This tax free harvest is paid by you.

[get it to x]

You didn't build that!!!! Man, I envy all those corporate capitalists, and especially those ethanol farmers, who buy from Cat and John Deere because they like paying a lot for equipment. I'm sure they jump into their subsidized Cessna Citation 10's every Friday and go to 11 Madison Park for supper at about $500 a head before wine.

https://www.elevenmadisonpark.com/ourrestaurant/

You do realize corporations employ people, don't you? You want everyone to be an employee of the government? That would work out well. Greece, anyone? I hear Santorini is lovely, if you can afford it, which very few Greeks can.

Sure but they also shelter trillions of dollars they get from the government and from business every year. This tax free harvest is paid by you.

You act like the money belongs to the government. Where the hell do you think it comes from? You do realize the top 10% of earners pay 71% of the individual income taxes in the country, right? I see financial statements of S corporations every day and because the companies are successful the "pass through" taxes are many times in the seven figures annually. And what you can deduct has shrunk, not expanded. You may get accelerated depreciation for capital equipment, but every purchase of a backhoe represents a manufacturing job, hopefully here in America.

[holmes435]

The beatings will continue until morale improves

[Typical Lax Dad]

You didn't build that!!!! Man, I envy all those corporate capitalists, and especially those ethanol farmers, who buy from Cat and John Deere because they like paying a lot for equipment. I'm sure they jump into their subsidized Cessna Citation 10's every Friday and go to 11 Madison Park for supper at about $500 a head before wine.

https://www.elevenmadisonpark.com/ourrestaurant/

You do realize corporations employ people, don't you? You want everyone to be an employee of the government? That would work out well. Greece, anyone? I hear Santorini is lovely, if you can afford it, which very few Greeks can.

Sure but they also shelter trillions of dollars they get from the government and from business every year. This tax free harvest is paid by you.

You act like the money belongs to the government. Where the hell do you think it comes from? You do realize the top 10% of earners pay 71% of the individual income taxes in the country, right? I see financial statements of S corporations every day and because the companies are successful the "pass through" taxes are many times in the seven figures annually. And what you can deduct has shrunk, not expanded. You may get accelerated depreciation for capital equipment, but every purchase of a backhoe represents a manufacturing job, hopefully here in America.

Capital purchases have gone nowhere despite tax reform. Company’s were sitting on a ton of liquidity before and best use of capital post tax reform was often stock buybacks. Yellow and green iron doesn’t hold the value it once did. Lots of reasons.

[get it to x]

You didn't build that!!!! Man, I envy all those corporate capitalists, and especially those ethanol farmers, who buy from Cat and John Deere because they like paying a lot for equipment. I'm sure they jump into their subsidized Cessna Citation 10's every Friday and go to 11 Madison Park for supper at about $500 a head before wine.

https://www.elevenmadisonpark.com/ourrestaurant/

You do realize corporations employ people, don't you? You want everyone to be an employee of the government? That would work out well. Greece, anyone? I hear Santorini is lovely, if you can afford it, which very few Greeks can.

Sure but they also shelter trillions of dollars they get from the government and from business every year. This tax free harvest is paid by you.

You act like the money belongs to the government. Where the hell do you think it comes from? You do realize the top 10% of earners pay 71% of the individual income taxes in the country, right? I see financial statements of S corporations every day and because the companies are successful the "pass through" taxes are many times in the seven figures annually. And what you can deduct has shrunk, not expanded. You may get accelerated depreciation for capital equipment, but every purchase of a backhoe represents a manufacturing job, hopefully here in America.

Capital purchases have gone nowhere despite tax reform. Company’s were sitting on a ton of liquidity before and best use of capital post tax reform was often stock buybacks. Yellow and green iron doesn’t hold the value it once did. Lots of reasons.

I am involved in valuations of equipment for construction companies and we base values off of similar items at auction. In general, well maintained equipment is holding its value.

[Typical Lax Dad]

You didn't build that!!!! Man, I envy all those corporate capitalists, and especially those ethanol farmers, who buy from Cat and John Deere because they like paying a lot for equipment. I'm sure they jump into their subsidized Cessna Citation 10's every Friday and go to 11 Madison Park for supper at about $500 a head before wine.

https://www.elevenmadisonpark.com/ourrestaurant/

You do realize corporations employ people, don't you? You want everyone to be an employee of the government? That would work out well. Greece, anyone? I hear Santorini is lovely, if you can afford it, which very few Greeks can.

Sure but they also shelter trillions of dollars they get from the government and from business every year. This tax free harvest is paid by you.

You act like the money belongs to the government. Where the hell do you think it comes from? You do realize the top 10% of earners pay 71% of the individual income taxes in the country, right? I see financial statements of S corporations every day and because the companies are successful the "pass through" taxes are many times in the seven figures annually. And what you can deduct has shrunk, not expanded. You may get accelerated depreciation for capital equipment, but every purchase of a backhoe represents a manufacturing job, hopefully here in America.

Capital purchases have gone nowhere despite tax reform. Company’s were sitting on a ton of liquidity before and best use of capital post tax reform was often stock buybacks. Yellow and green iron doesn’t hold the value it once did. Lots of reasons.

I am involved in valuations of equipment for construction companies and we base values off of similar items at auction. In general, well maintained equipment is holding its value.

Ok.

https://www.forconstructionpros.com/lat ... d-movement

It may depend on the market. I can’t remember how I came to know it. I have one large construction client and may have heard it on a call. Hasn’t been from liquidations so you may be closer.

[RedFromMI]

For those of you freaked out that a reduction in police would lead to increased crime, consider the work of Patrick Sharkey, now at Princeton University.

Patrick Sharkey is Professor of Sociology and Public Affairs. He received his Ph.D. in Sociology and Social Policy from Harvard. Sharkey was formerly Chair of Sociology at New York University, served as Scientific Director at Crime Lab, New York, and is the founder of AmericanViolence.org.

He has found that increased presence, whether in the form of police or even neighborhood watches, or even visible cameras is equally good at reducing crime.



Quotes are from the columnist at the Globe and Mail (Toronto) and Fellow at the Robert Bosch Academy, Berlin - Doug Saunders:

Sharkey studied the role of police in crime rates in his important study Uneasy Peace: The Great Crime Decline, the Renewal of City Life, and the Next War on Violence. It looked at "broken windows" theories and found that having more police on the streets DOES reduce crime. BUT

...He found that the reduction in crime rate caused by increased street policing is not dependent on the type of policing. It can be cops, or rent-a-cop security services, or community patrols, or (maybe most importantly) even an increase in visible CCTV cameras -- SAME OUTCOME

Cities, watching crime rates drop to historic lows in recent decades, took the wrong lesson -- it was indeed caused by an increase in security, but that security was caused by more street attention and surveillance, a product of higher-population downtowns, not by actual police

So reducing police scope is an entirely reasonable and documented approach. The fact is that professional police are a VERY expensive way to create security in neighboruhoods, which could be done for far lower wage and pension costs by using tech or less professional patrols

You'd still have police for investigative crime and vehicle control -- we could use more of that! -- but the street-patrol stuff, which creates violent interference with marginalized communities (even when police largely come from those communities) can be replaced at lower cost

Would "community patrols" (which in many real-world communities would be security firms) be less accountable? On paper, yes. But big-city police tend to be extremely un-accountable because of the malign role of police unions - which would be curtailed hereIt could also extend to traffic policing, which isn't done enough and doesn't require a highly paid person -- if you put a photo-radar unit on every street and a traffic-light camera at every intersection you can cut pedestrian deaths dramatically by making fines automatic.

(Those technologies also remove racial bias from human policing, which is ABSOLUTELY RIFE in traffic policing)

How would this work in practice? We don't know what Minneapolis is considering, but Camden NJ is the model -- they entirely disbanded their police force and its union, and started a new one, at lower pay and cost with an entirely different community role

So black activists saying "defund the police" is not empty sloganeering. It's a well-thought-out concept, replacing expensive armed professionals with a built-in bias problem with inexpensive unarmed non-professionals and technology -- for a greater crime-rate reduction

[get it to x]

I know you all saw the African Immigrant telling BLM they were a joke. Her name is Nestride Yumga and she is a DC resident and USAF Reservist.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/ ... a-joke.php

I run into a fair amount of African immigrants and they almost universally have character traits that are sorely lacking in the black urban experience. This isn't the rule, as I know many successful black Americans who are prospering, with the same traits as recent black immigrants. Those are a respect for authority, intact two parent families, delaying children until affordable, strong work/study ethic and a sense of shame. This proves to me that genetics have nothing to do with your station in life. It means seeing the opportunity and going for it. Tough to do when from age 2 you are taught to be a victim.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I know you all saw the African Immigrant telling BLM they were a joke. Her name is Nestride Yumga and she is a DC resident and USAF Reservist.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/ ... a-joke.php

I run into a fair amount of African immigrants and they almost universally have character traits that are sorely lacking in the black urban experience. This isn't the rule, as I know many successful black Americans who are prospering, with the same traits as recent black immigrants. Those are a respect for authority, intact two parent families, delaying children until affordable, strong work/study ethic and a sense of shame. This proves to me that genetics have nothing to do with your station in life. It means seeing the opportunity and going for it. Tough to do when from age 2 you are taught to be a victim.

Who said anything about genetics? What do your black friends say about the victimized attitude? Do they all feel the same way?

[Brooklyn]

You act like the money belongs to the government. Where the hell do you think it comes from? You do realize the top 10% of earners pay 71% of the individual income taxes in the country, right? I see financial statements of S corporations every day and because the companies are successful the "pass through" taxes are many times in the seven figures annually. And what you can deduct has shrunk, not expanded. You may get accelerated depreciation for capital equipment, but every purchase of a backhoe represents a manufacturing job, hopefully here in America.

We've discussed corporate welfare and foreign tax shelters before. In attempting to debate me on this issue you are way out of your league. Even your hero tRUMP has admitted that he has not paid a cent in taxes because he is so "smart". I'm sure most welfare queens feel that way.

[ggait]

I run into a fair amount of African immigrants and they almost universally have character traits that are sorely lacking in the black urban experience. This isn't the rule, as I know many successful black Americans who are prospering, with the same traits as recent black immigrants. Those are a respect for authority, intact two parent families, delaying children until affordable, strong work/study ethic and a sense of shame.

X -- I'd encourage you to read up on Colin Powell who, among others, has written extensively on this. In particular, the experience of Caribbean immigrant families (such as Powell or NBC's Al Roker) is quite distinct and different than that of many native born African Americans.

Bottom line -- growing up black in America is a pretty tough row to hoe. So not so surprising that the black folks who often do better are the ones who spent (or whose forebears spent) their formative years somewhere else. A common statement from black immigrants is that "I didn't know I was black until I came to the U.S." 400 years of segregation and discrimination is a lot of baggage to carry.

That says more about the U.S. than it does about the black folks, TBH. I agree with you that it isn't about genetics. But it has everything to do with politics, culture, poverty, racism and class.

For example, I find it pretty sad that almost half of the black enrollment at our Ivy League colleges are black immigrants from Africa or the Caribbean rather than USA native blacks.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I run into a fair amount of African immigrants and they almost universally have character traits that are sorely lacking in the black urban experience. This isn't the rule, as I know many successful black Americans who are prospering, with the same traits as recent black immigrants. Those are a respect for authority, intact two parent families, delaying children until affordable, strong work/study ethic and a sense of shame.

X -- I'd encourage you to read up on Colin Powell who, among others, has written extensively on this. In particular, the experience of Caribbean immigrant families (such as Powell or NBC's Al Roker) is quite distinct and different than that of many native born African Americans.

Bottom line -- growing up black in America is a pretty tough row to hoe. So not so surprising that the black folks who often do better are the ones who spent (or whose forebears spent) their formative years somewhere else. A common statement from black immigrants is that "I didn't know I was black until I came to the U.S." 400 years of segregation and discrimination is a lot of baggage to carry.

That says more about the U.S. than it does about the black folks, TBH. I agree with you that it isn't about genetics. But it has everything to do with politics, culture, poverty, racism and class.

For example, I find it pretty sad that almost half of the black enrollment at our Ivy League colleges are black immigrants from Africa or the Caribbean rather than USA native blacks.

Not debating your stat but was wondering where you saw that? I would guess about 1/2 of minorities on Ivy League campuses are Asian but had not thought of 1/2 the blacks students being immigrants. It made me think of all the black kids I know from Ivy League schools and only a fraction were immigrants. Unlike Get it to X’s stereotype, I know a woman that raised 4 kids on her own after her dirt bag husband left her. Other than some genetic material, he contributed nothing despite having the financial wherewithal to make an impact. I see him on instagram traveling the globe. Anyway, the four kids he has not seen in 14 years have all done well. 2 went to Yale, 1 went to Columbia and 1 is an accomplished concert cellist. Black kids from a “single parent” home....

[get it to x]

I run into a fair amount of African immigrants and they almost universally have character traits that are sorely lacking in the black urban experience. This isn't the rule, as I know many successful black Americans who are prospering, with the same traits as recent black immigrants. Those are a respect for authority, intact two parent families, delaying children until affordable, strong work/study ethic and a sense of shame.

X -- I'd encourage you to read up on Colin Powell who, among others, has written extensively on this. In particular, the experience of Caribbean immigrant families (such as Powell or NBC's Al Roker) is quite distinct and different than that of many native born African Americans.

Bottom line -- growing up black in America is a pretty tough row to hoe. So not so surprising that the black folks who often do better are the ones who spent (or whose forebears spent) their formative years somewhere else. A common statement from black immigrants is that "I didn't know I was black until I came to the U.S." 400 years of segregation and discrimination is a lot of baggage to carry.

That says more about the U.S. than it does about the black folks, TBH. I agree with you that it isn't about genetics. But it has everything to do with politics, culture, poverty, racism and class.

For example, I find it pretty sad that almost half of the black enrollment at our Ivy League colleges are black immigrants from Africa or the Caribbean rather than USA native blacks.

I may take you up on that. My point about genetics was to discredit anyone who thinks blacks are intellectually inferior. I think there are cultural issues and structural issues. There is also white racism, and maybe I am being a Pollyanna, but I believe we are seeing the last vestiges of that. I probably had some myself before I was mature enough to see the ridiculousness of it. Victim mentality is part of the black culture and young minds are easily influenced into believing there is no chance for even modest success. I still think most studies show single parent households are the biggest cause. Black Americans actually had a lower out of wedlock birth rate than whites in the early 20th century. Single parent households of all races have a much higher chance of living in poverty than "Nuclear" families.

Structurally, we are failing American Blacks with a substandard education. Aren't we also showing them how valuable black lives are when more black children are aborted than birthed in NYC? LBJ's War on Poverty turned out to be a war on Black men. The welfare state became the father, and the black man was marginalized.

My biggest beef isn't the riots or the culture. It's the thought of wasting all of that untapped potential. And not just because we need the next MLK or Frederick Douglass. How about the next Einstein, Ghandi, Musk or Aristotle?

[Brooklyn]

For example, I find it pretty sad that almost half of the black enrollment at our Ivy League colleges are black immigrants from Africa or the Caribbean rather than USA native blacks.

A few years ago a student at Harvard said the same - that while the school had a good representation of black students the vast majority were of wealthy African families. As in the movie "Coming to America" they are often the children of politicians, of doctors, of businessmen, etc. Few are from lower economic classes which means the schools remain stratified.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I run into a fair amount of African immigrants and they almost universally have character traits that are sorely lacking in the black urban experience. This isn't the rule, as I know many successful black Americans who are prospering, with the same traits as recent black immigrants. Those are a respect for authority, intact two parent families, delaying children until affordable, strong work/study ethic and a sense of shame.

X -- I'd encourage you to read up on Colin Powell who, among others, has written extensively on this. In particular, the experience of Caribbean immigrant families (such as Powell or NBC's Al Roker) is quite distinct and different than that of many native born African Americans.

Bottom line -- growing up black in America is a pretty tough row to hoe. So not so surprising that the black folks who often do better are the ones who spent (or whose forebears spent) their formative years somewhere else. A common statement from black immigrants is that "I didn't know I was black until I came to the U.S." 400 years of segregation and discrimination is a lot of baggage to carry.

That says more about the U.S. than it does about the black folks, TBH. I agree with you that it isn't about genetics. But it has everything to do with politics, culture, poverty, racism and class.

For example, I find it pretty sad that almost half of the black enrollment at our Ivy League colleges are black immigrants from Africa or the Caribbean rather than USA native blacks.

I may take you up on that. My point about genetics was to discredit anyone who thinks blacks are intellectually inferior. I think there are cultural issues and structural issues. There is also white racism, and maybe I am being a Pollyanna, but I believe we are seeing the last vestiges of that. I probably had some myself before I was mature enough to see the ridiculousness of it. Victim mentality is part of the black culture and young minds are easily influenced into believing there is no chance for even modest success. I still think most studies show single parent households are the biggest cause. Black Americans actually had a lower out of wedlock birth rate than whites in the early 20th century. Single parent households of all races have a much higher chance of living in poverty than "Nuclear" families.

Structurally, we are failing American Blacks with a substandard education. Aren't we also showing them how valuable black lives are when more black children are aborted than birthed in NYC? LBJ's War on Poverty turned out to be a war on Black men. The welfare state became the father, and the black man was marginalized.

My biggest beef isn't the riots or the culture. It's the thought of wasting all of that untapped potential. And not just because we need the next MLK or Frederick Douglass. How about the next Einstein, Ghandi, Musk or Aristotle?

Have you sat down with your black friends and talked about these things?

[get it to x]

I run into a fair amount of African immigrants and they almost universally have character traits that are sorely lacking in the black urban experience. This isn't the rule, as I know many successful black Americans who are prospering, with the same traits as recent black immigrants. Those are a respect for authority, intact two parent families, delaying children until affordable, strong work/study ethic and a sense of shame.

X -- I'd encourage you to read up on Colin Powell who, among others, has written extensively on this. In particular, the experience of Caribbean immigrant families (such as Powell or NBC's Al Roker) is quite distinct and different than that of many native born African Americans.

Bottom line -- growing up black in America is a pretty tough row to hoe. So not so surprising that the black folks who often do better are the ones who spent (or whose forebears spent) their formative years somewhere else. A common statement from black immigrants is that "I didn't know I was black until I came to the U.S." 400 years of segregation and discrimination is a lot of baggage to carry.

That says more about the U.S. than it does about the black folks, TBH. I agree with you that it isn't about genetics. But it has everything to do with politics, culture, poverty, racism and class.

For example, I find it pretty sad that almost half of the black enrollment at our Ivy League colleges are black immigrants from Africa or the Caribbean rather than USA native blacks.

I may take you up on that. My point about genetics was to discredit anyone who thinks blacks are intellectually inferior. I think there are cultural issues and structural issues. There is also white racism, and maybe I am being a Pollyanna, but I believe we are seeing the last vestiges of that. I probably had some myself before I was mature enough to see the ridiculousness of it. Victim mentality is part of the black culture and young minds are easily influenced into believing there is no chance for even modest success. I still think most studies show single parent households are the biggest cause. Black Americans actually had a lower out of wedlock birth rate than whites in the early 20th century. Single parent households of all races have a much higher chance of living in poverty than "Nuclear" families.

Structurally, we are failing American Blacks with a substandard education. Aren't we also showing them how valuable black lives are when more black children are aborted than birthed in NYC? LBJ's War on Poverty turned out to be a war on Black men. The welfare state became the father, and the black man was marginalized.

My biggest beef isn't the riots or the culture. It's the thought of wasting all of that untapped potential. And not just because we need the next MLK or Frederick Douglass. How about the next Einstein, Ghandi, Musk or Aristotle?

Have you sat down with your black friends and talked about these things?

Yes. Those I broached the subject with is not a huge sample size, maybe 10 people. And there isn't agreement on all points, except maybe the family thing and the education. These are successful people, and some never experienced urban culture, so their paradigm is similar to mine. Especially the recent immigrants.