Curious to see if people have "issues" with this weeks poll, I start to quibble with rankings only after top 15; which I find amazing.
As I said about the IL poll I just really don't understand the order of Maryland, Duke, Rutgers, Loyola. I think for the time being Maryland has to be behind Loyola and Rutgers. Then I don't really get what we've seen from Duke to put them ahead of those teams either, although there at least isn't a direct head to head situation there.
The pack is forming into three or four groupings for me:
Top Tier - I expect all of them to be playing on Mem weekend: UVA, Cornell and Notre Dame
Could beat anyone, anytime and at least one should show up Mem weekend: Maryland, Duke, Rutgers and Loyola.
A whole bunch of: "Look pretty good so far, but right now I would expect them to lose to everyone above them and I wouldn't be shocked if they lost to someone further down"
Then the "multiple personality disorder, who is hot this week? plus, wow these guys might really be good" group.
STILL somewhere back in the day....
...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
These are your biggest errors, not in order. I forgot how irrational you humans are...
1. Based on Best Wins and Worst Losses, Loyola is the best team in the nation. You have them at #6. Because you base your rankings on head-to-head results until the head-to-heads start chasing their tails and don't make sense and then you pick and choose which head-to-heads you want to count and not count and become irrational. Rationally, Loyola is the best team in the nation.
2. Related to above, you have UVA at #1. Yes, they have no losses but... their Best Wins, in order, *based on your rankings* are: #12 OSU, #24 Harvard, #28 Michigan, and #30 Richmond. That is not a #1 team. That's a #2 team. So, yes, you'll call me crazy because I have Loyola at #1 and yes, Loyola has a loss to #6 Rutgers but they beat #4 Maryland, #11 Hopkins, as well as Towson and Lafayette. Even with the loss, Loyola is having a more impressive season. They currently have the best resume in D1 Men's Lacrosse.
3. Several teams are ranked too low including JHU, Richmond, Lehigh, and BU. Their resumes are better than you give them credit.
4. Several teams aren't even ranked and they should be like Air Force and Hobart. Though just barely ranked in the Top 25.
5. And you'll say, yeah, but they only beat Fairfield or Bucknell or... Georgetown has won one game this season and that was against a Princeton team (whose best win is against Monmouth) and you have G'town at #20. That is crazy. Crazy. And please don't say, Yes but they lost in close games. They lost! Lost. The pain of OT is that a team was so close to winning but... They lost. But you humans try to play smart and say, They lost but it was close so it's almost like it wasn't a loss. They *looked good*. This is ridiculous. It's a formula for prejudice. Wins are wins, Losses are losses. Period. Similar for Penn. Penn has one win and it's over, guess who, G'town. You have Penn at #19. For heaven's sake, let the teams earn their ranking. Your rankings are like an old boys club for heaven's sake.
Alright, deep breath. Otherwise, not bad. Humans, carry on...
“I do not fear computers. I fear lack of them.” -Isaac Asimov
HooDat wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:06 pm
Top Tier - I expect all of them to be playing on Mem weekend: UVA, Cornell and Notre Dame
Could beat anyone, anytime and at least one should show up Mem weekend: Maryland, Duke, Rutgers and Loyola...
May prove to be 100% true. But Rankings on March 6th should be based on what teams have done on February 4th through March 5th. Rankings should evaluate what teams have earned, not what poll-ers are prognosticating...
“I do not fear computers. I fear lack of them.” -Isaac Asimov
FanLax Computer wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:16 pm
These are your biggest errors, not in order. I forgot how irrational you humans are...
1. Based on Best Wins and Worst Losses, Loyola is the best team in the nation. You have them at #6. Because you base your rankings on head-to-head results until the head-to-heads start chasing their tails and don't make sense and then you pick and choose which head-to-heads you want to count and not count and become irrational. Rationally, Loyola is the best team in the nation.
2. Related to above, you have UVA at #1. Yes, they have no losses but... their Best Wins, in order, *based on your rankings* are: #12 OSU, #24 Harvard, #28 Michigan, and #30 Richmond. That is not a #1 team. That's a #2 team. So, yes, you'll call me crazy because I have Loyola at #1 and yes, Loyola has a loss to #6 Rutgers but they beat #4 Maryland, #11 Hopkins, as well as Towson and Lafayette. Even with the loss, Loyola is having a more impressive season. They currently have the best resume in D1 Men's Lacrosse.
3. Several teams are ranked too low including JHU, Richmond, Lehigh, and BU. Their resumes are better than you give them credit.
4. Several teams aren't even ranked and they should be like Air Force and Hobart. Though just barely ranked in the Top 25.
5. And you'll say, yeah, but they only beat Fairfield or Bucknell or... Georgetown has won one game this season and that was against a Princeton team (whose best win is against Monmouth) and you have G'town at #20. That is crazy. Crazy. And please don't say, Yes but they lost in close games. They lost! Lost. The pain of OT is that a team was so close to winning but... They lost. But you humans try to play smart and say, They lost but it was close so it's almost like it wasn't a loss. They *looked good*. This is ridiculous. It's a formula for prejudice. Wins are wins, Losses are losses. Period. Similar for Penn. Penn has one win and it's over, guess who, G'town. You have Penn at #19. For heaven's sake, let the teams earn their ranking. Your rankings are like an old boys club for heaven's sake.
Alright, deep breath. Otherwise, not bad. Humans, carry on...
HooDat wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:06 pm
Top Tier - I expect all of them to be playing on Mem weekend: UVA, Cornell and Notre Dame
Could beat anyone, anytime and at least one should show up Mem weekend: Maryland, Duke, Rutgers and Loyola...
May prove to be 100% true. But Rankings on March 6th should be based on what teams have done on February 4th through March 5th. Rankings should evaluate what teams have earned, not what poll-ers are prognosticating...
Don't worry computer, I got your back. My clusters are not rankings, even though I still have Loyola ranked too low....
STILL somewhere back in the day....
...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
FanLax Computer wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:16 pm
These are your biggest errors, not in order. I forgot how irrational you humans are...
1. Based on Best Wins and Worst Losses, Loyola is the best team in the nation. You have them at #6. Because you base your rankings on head-to-head results until the head-to-heads start chasing their tails and don't make sense and then you pick and choose which head-to-heads you want to count and not count and become irrational. Rationally, Loyola is the best team in the nation.
2. Related to above, you have UVA at #1. Yes, they have no losses but... their Best Wins, in order, *based on your rankings* are: #12 OSU, #24 Harvard, #28 Michigan, and #30 Richmond. That is not a #1 team. That's a #2 team. So, yes, you'll call me crazy because I have Loyola at #1 and yes, Loyola has a loss to #6 Rutgers but they beat #4 Maryland, #11 Hopkins, as well as Towson and Lafayette. Even with the loss, Loyola is having a more impressive season. They currently have the best resume in D1 Men's Lacrosse.
3. Several teams are ranked too low including JHU, Richmond, Lehigh, and BU. Their resumes are better than you give them credit.
4. Several teams aren't even ranked and they should be like Air Force and Hobart. Though just barely ranked in the Top 25.
5. And you'll say, yeah, but they only beat Fairfield or Bucknell or... Georgetown has won one game this season and that was against a Princeton team (whose best win is against Monmouth) and you have G'town at #20. That is crazy. Crazy. And please don't say, Yes but they lost in close games. They lost! Lost. The pain of OT is that a team was so close to winning but... They lost. But you humans try to play smart and say, They lost but it was close so it's almost like it wasn't a loss. They *looked good*. This is ridiculous. It's a formula for prejudice. Wins are wins, Losses are losses. Period. Similar for Penn. Penn has one win and it's over, guess who, G'town. You have Penn at #19. For heaven's sake, let the teams earn their ranking. Your rankings are like an old boys club for heaven's sake.
Alright, deep breath. Otherwise, not bad. Humans, carry on...
In fairness, I would say, now coming into week six, some art is merited to mix with your science.
HooDat wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:06 pm
The pack is forming into three or four groupings for me:
Top Tier - I expect all of them to be playing on Mem weekend: UVA, Cornell and Notre Dame
Could beat anyone, anytime and at least one should show up Mem weekend: Maryland, Duke, Rutgers and Loyola.
A whole bunch of: "Look pretty good so far, but right now I would expect them to lose to everyone above them and I wouldn't be shocked if they lost to someone further down"
Then the "multiple personality disorder, who is hot this week? plus, wow these guys might really be good" group.
HGK wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:45 pm
In fairness, I would say, now coming into week six, some art is merited to mix with your science.
For D3, probably. For D1, I'm not so sure. Yes, the team's schedule (and whether they won or lost within this schedule) plays a large role in their rank but... that's no small part of a season, whether it's Week 6 or mid-May. What I will say is that art is critical and that art needs to be understood... so you can turn it into science.
“I do not fear computers. I fear lack of them.” -Isaac Asimov
After some digestion and researching some of the top 20 teams, I am afraid I have fallen victim to the Inside Lacrosse hype machine as well. I will be more diligent in my poll next week, but some interesting things that i have noticed and what some of the other posters have pointed out has become far more apparent to me.
What I find hard to understand is how Villanova seems to not get credit for their Penn State win. NOVA beats PSU, PSU beats Yale, Yale beats NOVA. All teams have 1 loss. Why the disparity in the rankings? Should they not be clustered together? The Media Poll has Nova at 18, Yale at 11 and PSU at 8???
Agree with some of the previous posters, control what you can control, win the games on your schedule and you should be rewarded. OSU 3-2 far too high. JHU 4-3 far too high. JVILLE and duke both have 1 loss, JVILLE beat duke, yet duke is rewarded #5 for beating 1 win PENN and .500 CUSE.
I think water will find its level as the season progresses, but at this point are we awarding rankings based on name brand recognition or based on how teams have performed this year
chosen1lax wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:49 pm
...but at this point are we awarding rankings based on name brand recognition or based on how teams have performed this year...
Are you really asking?...
chosen1lax wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:49 pm
... Villanova seems to not get credit for their Penn State win. NOVA beats PSU, PSU beats Yale, Yale beats NOVA. All teams have 1 loss. Why the disparity in the rankings? Should they not be clustered together? The Media Poll has Nova at 18, Yale at 11 and PSU at 8???...
You think they should be near each other because you're taking on a head-to-head perspective but head-to-head doesn't work. You need to adopt a resume/body of work perspective. Once you do that, the rankings look more like PSU at #8, Yale at #11 (more like, but not exactly), and 'nova at... #9 (not #18). 'nova has better wins than Yale yet... #18. I agree with you. Does not make sense. But Yale is Yale so humans will do what humans do.
“I do not fear computers. I fear lack of them.” -Isaac Asimov
HGK wrote: ↑Mon Mar 06, 2023 2:45 pm
In fairness, I would say, now coming into week six, some art is merited to mix with your science.
For D3, probably. For D1, I'm not so sure. Yes, the team's schedule (and whether they won or lost within this schedule) plays a large role in their rank but... that's no small part of a season, whether it's Week 6 or mid-May. What I will say is that art is critical and that art needs to be understood... so you can turn it into science.
You a chatbot as well?
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
