Dartmouth Men's Lacrosse

[CU77]

I look at the top 20 D1 rankings and I see teams like Lehigh, BU, etc. pop up. What did those schools, who's programs are not well-known or have a long winning tradition do to improve to this point?

Maybe admit a bunch of players who wouldn't be able to get into Dartmouth? Maybe not have to play under Ivy restrictions on practice time and season start? Maybe hire a highly regarded coach and then support him well enough to get him to later turn down a high-profile Ivy job?

[MDlaxfan76]

Soccer has been extremely successful in the past decade (especially within the Ivy League). Football the last two seasons. To address your question directly... I don't think that is the factor here. But just my opinion.

Agreed. Our issues are men's lax program specific.

RumorMill,

I strongly believe that very good coaching can make a big difference. I don't know whether we have that in place yet, but I do feel better about the program than I did in the prior two regimes, though I'd had some hope early on when Jon Torpey was the main assistant to Towers.

I think the move to Conner as AHC, Recruiting and Offensive Coordinator could prove to be very beneficial over the next two years. Sure hope so!

[MDlaxfan76]

I look at the top 20 D1 rankings and I see teams like Lehigh, BU, etc. pop up. What did those schools, who's programs are not well-known or have a long winning tradition do to improve to this point?

Maybe admit a bunch of players who wouldn't be able to get into Dartmouth? Maybe not have to play under Ivy restrictions on practice time and season start? Maybe hire a highly regarded coach and then support him well enough to get him to later turn down a high-profile Ivy job?

Exactly.
The first two are not within our control, not an option for us.
The latter has been a problem over the years.

[RumorMill]

I (and I hope everyone here and on the Ivy League forum) aren't trying to compare Dartmouth to Penn State, Maryland, UVA, Duke, etc from a league perspective.... So playing within Ivy League restrictions is a given... as do Yale (2018 NCAA Champions), Penn, Cornell, etc. Admissions is a more complicated topic, but one that coaches need to navigate. MDlaxfan76, hopefully your point on our new AHC will help immensely in this category. As I've seen it mentioned before, this is point of recruiting the "right" players. My skepticism comes from their (the coaching staffs) ability to utilize the players they have and get! Trying not to beat a dead horse, but given current circumstances it's difficult... we're 5 years in and just now recognizing we need someone who is adept at recruiting within the Ivy League? And more specifically Dartmouth. MD, you made a great point about your visit and the lack of emphasis on what makes Dartmouth special! With all that said, the players are there, the recruits are there, the passion is there... let's hope we can start turning the corner.

Game plan right now should be, survive Yale and learn from it. Beat Hartford and start figuring out now how to put a game plan together and get the first Ivy win against Brown or Princeton (notice I didn't include Penn)

[MDlaxfan76]

I (and I hope everyone here and on the Ivy League forum) aren't trying to compare Dartmouth to Penn State, Maryland, UVA, Duke, etc from a league perspective.... So playing within Ivy League restrictions is a given... as do Yale (2018 NCAA Champions), Penn, Cornell, etc. Admissions is a more complicated topic, but one that coaches need to navigate. MDlaxfan76, hopefully your point on our new AHC will help immensely in this category. As I've seen it mentioned before, this is point of recruiting the "right" players. My skepticism comes from their (the coaching staffs) ability to utilize the players they have and get! Trying not to beat a dead horse, but given current circumstances it's difficult... we're 5 years in and just now recognizing we need someone who is adept at recruiting within the Ivy League? And more specifically Dartmouth. MD, you made a great point about your visit and the lack of emphasis on what makes Dartmouth special! With all that said, the players are there, the recruits are there, the passion is there... let's hope we can start turning the corner.

Game plan right now should be, survive Yale and learn from it. Beat Hartford and start figuring out now how to put a game plan together and get the first Ivy win against Brown or Princeton (notice I didn't include Penn)

I quite agree.
I guess I just feel that the hole that we're digging out of was pretty darn deep.

So, right now, from a lax perspective, I want to see improvement from these young players.

But more importantly, my wish is for them to build lifelong relationships through shared sacrifice and effort. And have some fun playing this great game!

[CU77]

I look at the top 20 D1 rankings and I see teams like Lehigh, BU, etc. pop up. What did those schools, who's programs are not well-known or have a long winning tradition do to improve to this point?

Maybe admit a bunch of players who wouldn't be able to get into Dartmouth? Maybe not have to play under Ivy restrictions on practice time and season start? Maybe hire a highly regarded coach and then support him well enough to get him to later turn down a high-profile Ivy job?

Exactly.
The first two are not within our control, not an option for us.
The latter has been a problem over the years.

My intended point was that you can't do the latter either; no Ivy can. Lehigh's Cassese was rumored to have turned down the Cornell job a few years back; he's not coming to Dartmouth either. High-profile coaching talent flows out of the Ivies, not in. You have to hire a good young largely unknown coach, and hope for the best. It seems to me that's what DC has been doing, but I don't follow them closely enough to have a truly informed opinion.

[RumorMill]

CU, thanks for the clarification. I don't necessarily disagree, but I think that's the challenge. Identifying who the "right" coach is for your given program. Every program has their challenges, intricacies and nuances that makes one candidate better than the other (not necessarily "better", but better for the particular organization). Dartmouth in particular presents some special circumstances. I'm just concerned they're trying to put a band aid on an arterial hemorrhage. Right now with Yale at the doorstep, I hope they're focusing on Brown!

[MDlaxfan76]

I look at the top 20 D1 rankings and I see teams like Lehigh, BU, etc. pop up. What did those schools, who's programs are not well-known or have a long winning tradition do to improve to this point?

Maybe admit a bunch of players who wouldn't be able to get into Dartmouth? Maybe not have to play under Ivy restrictions on practice time and season start? Maybe hire a highly regarded coach and then support him well enough to get him to later turn down a high-profile Ivy job?

Exactly.
The first two are not within our control, not an option for us.
The latter has been a problem over the years.

My intended point was that you can't do the latter either; no Ivy can. Lehigh's Cassese was rumored to have turned down the Cornell job a few years back; he's not coming to Dartmouth either. High-profile coaching talent flows out of the Ivies, not in. You have to hire a good young largely unknown coach, and hope for the best. It seems to me that's what DC has been doing, but I don't follow them closely enough to have a truly informed opinion.

Yes, I did understand how you constructed the third point as, by definition, not applicable to an Ivy.

I was 'flipping' it to say that committing to and keeping a strong coach has not been as successfully done with the men's lax program as has been the case for a number of other sports at Dartmouth (long tenures are more the norm than the exception).

It's been a struggle in our sport for all Ivy's. Yale appears to have addressed that tendency with Shay.

[ABV 8.3%]

Penn's Murphy has some pretty good teams over the years.

[MDlaxfan76]

Penn's Murphy has some pretty good teams over the years.

Tru dat.
Pretty consistently good, every once in awhile really, really good.

9 years now at Penn, he's had strong assistants. The Pat Myers addition as Associate HC and O coordinator seems very helpful. Casey Ikeda is a young defensive coordinator, but great background. Not sure why Murphy brought Ryan Danehy (Dartmouth alum and former assistant at Dartmouth and Michigan) in as the volunteer assistant, but presumably to add another experienced hand on the defensive end. It's an interesting dynamic in our sport how coaches help out each other regain forward direction after falls. Hopefully Ryan will make the most of the opportunity.

Penn's having a heck of a year so far in 2019. Good team, well coached.

Murphy's had some runs at him to move and has stuck (so far). If I recall correctly, family considerations, but I could be mixing people up.

BTW, when I was talking about coaching and staff resources earlier, the Penn coaches page is instructive. Endowed HC and big staff.

https://pennathletics.com/roster.aspx?r ... er-coaches

That's what Dartmouth's working on.

[Laxing97]

Penn’s coaching page is not accurate. Pat Myers took a head coaching position in June of last year.

[sguy9]

2019 Penn Staff. But the point MD is making is still accurate. Full staff.

https://pennathletics.com/roster.aspx?p ... er-coaches

[Laxing97]

2 of his coaches started this year Murphy is the leader who can lose coaches often to holy cross and others and still produce quality teams year after year. But in fairness to Dartmouth Penn has a lot more to offer a player. You have access to everything from a city life to a top business school. It has been said many times before you need a leader to sell what you have and communicates with prospects.

[Voyuer]

Penn has more to offer??? Crime..urban decay...ect. Give me a break. Trust me when I say "if you have been on Penn's campus and Dartmouth's campus there is no debate as to where you are going" unless you have NO CLUE what you want. I am not saying which is better for an individual player, but they are in no way comparable, except both great academic Ivy league schools with a lacrosse team.

[RumorMill]

Penn has more to offer??? Crime..urban decay...ect. Give me a break. Trust me when I say "if you have been on Penn's campus and Dartmouth's campus there is no debate as to where you are going" unless you have NO CLUE what you want. I am not saying which is better for an individual player, but they are in no way comparable, except both great academic Ivy league schools with a lacrosse team.

Agree with this! Tuck isn't too shabby a business school either.

Goes back to recruiting the right players (and getting the most out of who you have). You will absolutely have a great player who might not be happy at Dartmouth and would be at Penn... and vice versa! Why has Dartmouth's soccer team been top in the Ivy's the last 10 years (not saying they won it every year, but have more times than any other Ivy in that span)... vs Penn, Harvard or Brown? All urban campuses.

[MDlaxfan76]

Penn has more to offer??? Crime..urban decay...ect. Give me a break. Trust me when I say "if you have been on Penn's campus and Dartmouth's campus there is no debate as to where you are going" unless you have NO CLUE what you want. I am not saying which is better for an individual player, but they are in no way comparable, except both great academic Ivy league schools with a lacrosse team.

97 isn't a Dartmouth alum or fan.
We can forgive 97 for not understanding what makes Dartmouth special and unique.
The trolling though...

As a Dartmouth fan, I'd say that Philly has the advantage of being close to home for many lax families. For some families, that's important.

Other than that, it fairs poorly as a campus destination in all sorts of ways. That's ok, it's a terrific school too.

I've posted before about how pleased I am that Dartmouth's whole marketing message has shifted to what makes us special and very unique, rather than the weak 'us too' mentality of over a decade, really two decades. Huge improvement.

[MDlaxfan76]

2019 Penn Staff. But the point MD is making is still accurate. Full staff.

https://pennathletics.com/roster.aspx?p ... er-coaches

Thanks, I must have been looking at 2018.
Yes, full staff, bigger budget.

My understanding is that progress is being made.

[Laxing97]

Md,
It is funny that you call it trolling when you talk about a coach that hasn’t been at a school in almost a year. Murphy’s staff has 2 first year coaches and 1-3 year coach but he still makes it work. He has lost a lot of coaches the last few years as they have taken head coaching positions.

As for Penn besides having easy access to mass transit, a international airport close by hotels everywhere, city life if interested, access to Maryland and Ny major sporting events and even a bubble. The urban campus is not for everyone especially in the winter with no indoor facility or a bubble. I can hear it now it is coming.

Parents do play a part in a players decision and easy access to games is big to parents.

[RumorMill]

No sense in debating geography here... Dartmouth is in Hanover, NH and I don't think they're moving anytime soon (nor would I want them to).

If it was yesterday I would say I heard Yale had a bunch of injuries at practice... but it's not, so onward and upward!

[FannOLax]

Not a Dartmouth grad here (Ivy yes), hopefully not considered a troll. I'd say that all Ivies have good things to offer, but all are different. I agree with something MDlaxfan76 has said on various occasions: that Dartmouth recruiters should be emphasizing Dartmouth's unique strengths and assets. Just wondering, is it pretty definite that The Big Green will have an indoor practice facility in the near future? If so, when? That should help, both for recruiting and for quality practices. Here's hoping for an injury-free game Saturday, and I can't claim that I'll be rooting for Dartmouth in this particular game.