Tewaaraton Finalist

[Chousnake]

Plenty of time for someone to take charge of the race in the tournament, but as it stands, I think Kirst has separated himself just a little bit from O'Neill. Slightly more points in fewer games, with a slightly higher shooting percentage. Caveat that Duke has had a tougher schedule, but where Kirst really separates himself is the second layer statistics. He has a significant lead in GBs (35 to 23), CTs (13 to 3), and has fewer TOs (19 vs. 24).

I have Kav a shade below O'Neill for number 3 primarily because he's been held in check several times in some of NDs bigger games, and his shooting efficiency is lower (almost 10% lower shooting percentage, despite a better SOG %, so not only is he not scoring as efficiently, but goalies are making more saves on him which ends possessions).

I think it would be useful for shooting percentage on SOG to become a more prevalent stat. Not all missed shots are created equal; a shot that misses the cage isn't usually harmful, whereas a saved shot is essentially a TO.

If Cornell loses either of their 1st 2 games, Kirst doesn't have a prayer. If he outplays O' Neill and they get by Duke, he becomes the favorite. Although good, I am not even convinced he is the best attack man but it won't matter.

So if Kirst puts up 8 points vs Duke and Adler shuts down O'Neill, but Duke wins, O'Neill gets the Tewy? That makes no sense. Either that, or it reveals the nonsensical criteria applied to awarding the trophy - supposedly to the most outstanding college lacrosse player. It goes to the most outstanding player (or should), not to the player among the five finalists whose team has the most success in the tourney. Tying the trophy to team accomplishments never sat well with me.

In any event, I'll gladly hand the trophy to O'Neill or anybody else if Cornell wins the title after coming so close so many times in the past 45 years.

[MDlaxfan76]

I’ll keep banging this drum until O’Neill gets the Tewey, but it amazes me this board fails to note Dickson’s historical shooting percentage. I can’t get numbers for previous years unfortunately, but my instinct tells me his 57% conversion ratio (at this level of goals) is an all time high. It’s really an incredible display of shooting IQ and way more worthy than Kavanaugh’s statistics (whom you keep propping up).

#10 Xander Dickson’s performance this year has been exceptional

not only his finishing but his ability to read a defense, find a seam and time his cuts

will he win the T-Award or even be named a finalist? No, probably not

but for any player wanting to improve their off ball play he is must watch TV

His success is not just a function or by-product of #1 Connor Shellenberger

His Ying & Yang combination with #24 Payton Cormier on the inside along with the scheme by OC Sean Kirwin can create a devastating mix

#1 is the star and gets all the attention but UVA's attack are greater than the sum of their parts

#4 Jeff Conner (16 A) & #26 Griffin Schutz (15 A) act as providers when #1 is the decoy

UVA 2023 may not win it all but they have been one of the most entertaining creative teams to watch

Hey when O’Neil learns to use his weak hand or even attempts to go righty we will maybe think about him. He did the same move in last game against ND,for my money he is way over rated good player but a generational guy please

I favor Kirst at this point, for a number of factors, but O'Neill's 80 points, balanced, and the attention he draws every time he leans in, certainly make him formidable. I don't care about the dominant hand issue if he produces regardless. But can't have an off day like he did vs ND.

IMO, it all depends on tournament play between Kirst and O'Neill.
If either has a down performance and his team loses, likely goes to the other.

If Kavanaugh has an exceptional tournament and ND wins, ok.

If none of the star offensive players shines, but Adler shuts down his men yet again and they make it to Memorial Day...maybe.

Could Shellenberger have the exceptional tournament and come from behind on this?
sure, but requires his injuries to not slow him down, so doubtful.

^^^ well stated. I generally agree with this, maybe excepting Kavanaugh whom i don’t think is on my top 5.

I swear my last name isn’t Dickson, so bear that in mind while I beg all of you to reconsider the young man #10 of UVA . “gaits right hand” just pointed out Dickson’s one comparable and that is Mikey Powell. This kid is truly enjoying a Tewey year and he’s not done yet.

(btw, in case a Dickson family member ever reads this thread, feel free to buy me a beer one day, defending your kid while lacrosse retirees ignore his historical numbers!!)

Dickson would be in my final 5 if he'd been on the 25 list, which as the Orfling pointed out above, he wasn't on (but should have been)...it would be interesting if they made an exception and put him on there for the final list, but I'm not thinking that's likely.

From his own team, as of April 20 when it was announced (and now), I'd have put Xander ahead of Cormier. But Cormier on the list. Way, way ahead of Chris Kavanaugh, though. Pat I'm good with, 5.42 points per game, second only to Kirst. That said, Xander's incredibly more efficient with his touches.

[The Orfling]

I’ll keep banging this drum until O’Neill gets the Tewey, but it amazes me this board fails to note Dickson’s historical shooting percentage. I can’t get numbers for previous years unfortunately, but my instinct tells me his 57% conversion ratio (at this level of goals) is an all time high. It’s really an incredible display of shooting IQ and way more worthy than Kavanaugh’s statistics (whom you keep propping up).

#10 Xander Dickson’s performance this year has been exceptional

not only his finishing but his ability to read a defense, find a seam and time his cuts

will he win the T-Award or even be named a finalist? No, probably not

but for any player wanting to improve their off ball play he is must watch TV

His success is not just a function or by-product of #1 Connor Shellenberger

His Ying & Yang combination with #24 Payton Cormier on the inside along with the scheme by OC Sean Kirwin can create a devastating mix

#1 is the star and gets all the attention but UVA's attack are greater than the sum of their parts

#4 Jeff Conner (16 A) & #26 Griffin Schutz (15 A) act as providers when #1 is the decoy

UVA 2023 may not win it all but they have been one of the most entertaining creative teams to watch

Hey when O’Neil learns to use his weak hand or even attempts to go righty we will maybe think about him. He did the same move in last game against ND,for my money he is way over rated good player but a generational guy please

I favor Kirst at this point, for a number of factors, but O'Neill's 80 points, balanced, and the attention he draws every time he leans in, certainly make him formidable. I don't care about the dominant hand issue if he produces regardless. But can't have an off day like he did vs ND.

IMO, it all depends on tournament play between Kirst and O'Neill.
If either has a down performance and his team loses, likely goes to the other.

If Kavanaugh has an exceptional tournament and ND wins, ok.

If none of the star offensive players shines, but Adler shuts down his men yet again and they make it to Memorial Day...maybe.

Could Shellenberger have the exceptional tournament and come from behind on this?
sure, but requires his injuries to not slow him down, so doubtful.

^^^ well stated. I generally agree with this, maybe excepting Kavanaugh whom i don’t think is on my top 5.

I swear my last name isn’t Dickson, so bear that in mind while I beg all of you to reconsider the young man #10 of UVA . “gaits right hand” just pointed out Dickson’s one comparable and that is Mikey Powell. This kid is truly enjoying a Tewey year and he’s not done yet.

(btw, in case a Dickson family member ever reads this thread, feel free to buy me a beer one day, defending your kid while lacrosse retirees ignore his historical numbers!!)

I'm being a pragmatist -- as I read it, the Tewaaraton finalists (and eventual winner) will come from the April 20 list of nominees ("Five men’s and five women’s finalists will be selected from these groups, to be announced May 11 at the conclusion of the regular season."), and Dickson was not included on that list of 25. So I just don't think he is eligible at this point, in effect. Maybe it was a "miss" for the foundation to rank the other two Wahoos over him Dickson as of April 20 but that is what they functionally did by choosing Shellenberger and Cormier but not Dickson for the 25 nominees from whom the 5 finalists and the 1 winner will be drawn: https://www.tewaaraton.com/nominees/

[CU88a]

Plenty of time for someone to take charge of the race in the tournament, but as it stands, I think Kirst has separated himself just a little bit from O'Neill. Slightly more points in fewer games, with a slightly higher shooting percentage. Caveat that Duke has had a tougher schedule, but where Kirst really separates himself is the second layer statistics. He has a significant lead in GBs (35 to 23), CTs (13 to 3), and has fewer TOs (19 vs. 24).

I have Kav a shade below O'Neill for number 3 primarily because he's been held in check several times in some of NDs bigger games, and his shooting efficiency is lower (almost 10% lower shooting percentage, despite a better SOG %, so not only is he not scoring as efficiently, but goalies are making more saves on him which ends possessions).

I think it would be useful for shooting percentage on SOG to become a more prevalent stat. Not all missed shots are created equal; a shot that misses the cage isn't usually harmful, whereas a saved shot is essentially a TO.

If Cornell loses either of their 1st 2 games, Kirst doesn't have a prayer. If he outplays O' Neill and they get by Duke, he becomes the favorite. Although good, I am not even convinced he is the best attack man but it won't matter.

So if Kirst puts up 8 points vs Duke and Adler shuts down O'Neill, but Duke wins, O'Neill gets the Tewy? That makes no sense. Either that, or it reveals the nonsensical criteria applied to awarding the trophy - supposedly to the most outstanding college lacrosse player. It goes to the most outstanding player (or should), not to the player among the five finalists whose team has the most success in the tourney. Tying the trophy to team accomplishments never sat well with me.

In any event, I'll gladly hand the trophy to O'Neill or anybody else if Cornell wins the title after coming so close so many times in the past 45 years.

+1

[MDlaxfan76]

Plenty of time for someone to take charge of the race in the tournament, but as it stands, I think Kirst has separated himself just a little bit from O'Neill. Slightly more points in fewer games, with a slightly higher shooting percentage. Caveat that Duke has had a tougher schedule, but where Kirst really separates himself is the second layer statistics. He has a significant lead in GBs (35 to 23), CTs (13 to 3), and has fewer TOs (19 vs. 24).

I have Kav a shade below O'Neill for number 3 primarily because he's been held in check several times in some of NDs bigger games, and his shooting efficiency is lower (almost 10% lower shooting percentage, despite a better SOG %, so not only is he not scoring as efficiently, but goalies are making more saves on him which ends possessions).

I think it would be useful for shooting percentage on SOG to become a more prevalent stat. Not all missed shots are created equal; a shot that misses the cage isn't usually harmful, whereas a saved shot is essentially a TO.

If Cornell loses either of their 1st 2 games, Kirst doesn't have a prayer. If he outplays O' Neill and they get by Duke, he becomes the favorite. Although good, I am not even convinced he is the best attack man but it won't matter.

So if Kirst puts up 8 points vs Duke and Adler shuts down O'Neill, but Duke wins, O'Neill gets the Tewy? That makes no sense. Either that, or it reveals the nonsensical criteria applied to awarding the trophy - supposedly to the most outstanding college lacrosse player. It goes to the most outstanding player (or should), not to the player among the five finalists whose team has the most success in the tourney. Tying the trophy to team accomplishments never sat well with me.

In any event, I'll gladly hand the trophy to O'Neill or anybody else if Cornell wins the title after coming so close so many times in the past 45 years.

Under that first scenario, Kirst would have had two opportunities to have had big games against actual contenders. Michigan winning the Big 10 is worlds apart from what O'Neill should be able to do vs Delaware or Marist.

But even if Kirst puts up big #'s and Adler closes off O'Neill, O'Neill gets more chances to impress...of course if he doesn't, then Kirst and Adler back in consideration IMO.

I'd note that there have been a # of Tewey winners who don't get to Memorial Day, so it's not impossible...but best player on best team needs to be trumped by something amazing from the Tewey winner, especially if they don't get to Final 4. Thompsons for instance.

[Finster]

I’ll keep banging this drum until O’Neill gets the Tewey, but it amazes me this board fails to note Dickson’s historical shooting percentage. I can’t get numbers for previous years unfortunately, but my instinct tells me his 57% conversion ratio (at this level of goals) is an all time high. It’s really an incredible display of shooting IQ and way more worthy than Kavanaugh’s statistics (whom you keep propping up).

#10 Xander Dickson’s performance this year has been exceptional

not only his finishing but his ability to read a defense, find a seam and time his cuts

will he win the T-Award or even be named a finalist? No, probably not

but for any player wanting to improve their off ball play he is must watch TV

His success is not just a function or by-product of #1 Connor Shellenberger

His Ying & Yang combination with #24 Payton Cormier on the inside along with the scheme by OC Sean Kirwin can create a devastating mix

#1 is the star and gets all the attention but UVA's attack are greater than the sum of their parts

#4 Jeff Conner (16 A) & #26 Griffin Schutz (15 A) act as providers when #1 is the decoy

UVA 2023 may not win it all but they have been one of the most entertaining creative teams to watch

Hey when O’Neil learns to use his weak hand or even attempts to go righty we will maybe think about him. He did the same move in last game against ND,for my money he is way over rated good player but a generational guy please

I favor Kirst at this point, for a number of factors, but O'Neill's 80 points, balanced, and the attention he draws every time he leans in, certainly make him formidable. I don't care about the dominant hand issue if he produces regardless. But can't have an off day like he did vs ND.

IMO, it all depends on tournament play between Kirst and O'Neill.
If either has a down performance and his team loses, likely goes to the other.

If Kavanaugh has an exceptional tournament and ND wins, ok.

If none of the star offensive players shines, but Adler shuts down his men yet again and they make it to Memorial Day...maybe.

Could Shellenberger have the exceptional tournament and come from behind on this?
sure, but requires his injuries to not slow him down, so doubtful.

^^^ well stated. I generally agree with this, maybe excepting Kavanaugh whom i don’t think is on my top 5.

I swear my last name isn’t Dickson, so bear that in mind while I beg all of you to reconsider the young man #10 of UVA . “gaits right hand” just pointed out Dickson’s one comparable and that is Mikey Powell. This kid is truly enjoying a Tewey year and he’s not done yet.

(btw, in case a Dickson family member ever reads this thread, feel free to buy me a beer one day, defending your kid while lacrosse retirees ignore his historical numbers!!)

Dickson would be in my final 5 if he'd been on the 25 list, which as the Orfling pointed out above, he wasn't on (but should have been)...it would be interesting if they made an exception and put him on there for the final list, but I'm not thinking that's likely.

From his own team, as of April 20 when it was announced (and now), I'd have put Xander ahead of Cormier. But Cormier on the list. Way, way ahead of Chris Kavanaugh, though. Pat I'm good with, 5.42 points per game, second only to Kirst. That said, Xander's incredibly more efficient with his touches.

Between Kavanaugh and Dickson, they have almost an identical number of shots-on-goal percentage (K 68%, D 72%), but one kid (Dickson) cans 57% of his shots while the other (Kavanaugh) cans only 29%.

Yet it’s Kavanaugh in the final 5 Tewey and Dickson not even top-25????

I mean, are you kidding me?!?? Who’s in charge here?

[CU88a]

Yes, we find out the Men's finalist tomorrow, five drawn down from the prior posting of 25 names, and at this time I suspect we will see:

1 CJ Kirst Cornell Jr. ATT 14 63 18 81 5.79
2 Pat Kavanagh ND Sr. ATT 12 20 45 65 5.42
3 Brennan O'Neill Duke Jr. ATT 15 44 36 80 5.33

I think that these two round out the group of five:

4 Gavin Adler Cornell Sr.
5 Brett Makar Maryland Grad




Gavin Adler, Cornell – Sr., Defense
Will Bowen, Georgetown – Grad. Student, Defense
Matt Brandau, Yale – Jr., Attack
Kenny Brower, Duke – Sr., Defense
Matt Campbell, Villanova – Grad. Student, Midfield
Zach Cole, St. Joe’s – Grad. Student, Face Off
Payton Cormier, Virginia – Sr., Attack
Tucker Dordevic, Georgetown – Grad. Student, Attack
Liam Entenmann, Notre Dame – Sr., Goalie
Sam Handley, Penn – 5th Year, Midfield
Pat Kavanagh, Notre Dame – Sr., Attack
Chris Kavanagh, Notre Dame – Soph., Attack
CJ Kirst, Cornell – Jr., Attack
Shane Knobloch, Rutgers – Jr., Midfield
Tye Kurtz, Delaware – Sr., Attack
Coulter Mackesy, Princeton – Soph., Attack
Brett Makar, Maryland – Grad. Student, Defense
TJ Malone, Penn State – Grad. Student, Attack
Will Mark, Syracuse – Jr., Goalie
Brennan O’Neill, Duke – Jr., Attack
Ross Scott, Rutgers – Sr., Attack
Connor Shellenberger, Virginia – Sr., Attack
Mike Sisselberger, Lehigh – Grad. Student, Face Off
Luke Wierman, Maryland – Sr., Face Off
Josh Zawada, Michigan – Sr., Attack

[terp talk]

Kirst, O'Neill, Adler, Makar and Kavanaugh indeed would be a great Final Five and whoever leads his team to the Natty will be the winner. Maybe a tremendous tournament performance by one of the 3 scorers could tilt the scales but the winner most likely will at least be in the championship game.

[wgdsr]

I’ll keep banging this drum until O’Neill gets the Tewey, but it amazes me this board fails to note Dickson’s historical shooting percentage. I can’t get numbers for previous years unfortunately, but my instinct tells me his 57% conversion ratio (at this level of goals) is an all time high. It’s really an incredible display of shooting IQ and way more worthy than Kavanaugh’s statistics (whom you keep propping up).

#10 Xander Dickson’s performance this year has been exceptional

not only his finishing but his ability to read a defense, find a seam and time his cuts

will he win the T-Award or even be named a finalist? No, probably not

but for any player wanting to improve their off ball play he is must watch TV

His success is not just a function or by-product of #1 Connor Shellenberger

His Ying & Yang combination with #24 Payton Cormier on the inside along with the scheme by OC Sean Kirwin can create a devastating mix

#1 is the star and gets all the attention but UVA's attack are greater than the sum of their parts

#4 Jeff Conner (16 A) & #26 Griffin Schutz (15 A) act as providers when #1 is the decoy

UVA 2023 may not win it all but they have been one of the most entertaining creative teams to watch

Hey when O’Neil learns to use his weak hand or even attempts to go righty we will maybe think about him. He did the same move in last game against ND,for my money he is way over rated good player but a generational guy please

I favor Kirst at this point, for a number of factors, but O'Neill's 80 points, balanced, and the attention he draws every time he leans in, certainly make him formidable. I don't care about the dominant hand issue if he produces regardless. But can't have an off day like he did vs ND.

IMO, it all depends on tournament play between Kirst and O'Neill.
If either has a down performance and his team loses, likely goes to the other.

If Kavanaugh has an exceptional tournament and ND wins, ok.

If none of the star offensive players shines, but Adler shuts down his men yet again and they make it to Memorial Day...maybe.

Could Shellenberger have the exceptional tournament and come from behind on this?
sure, but requires his injuries to not slow him down, so doubtful.

^^^ well stated. I generally agree with this, maybe excepting Kavanaugh whom i don’t think is on my top 5.

I swear my last name isn’t Dickson, so bear that in mind while I beg all of you to reconsider the young man #10 of UVA . “gaits right hand” just pointed out Dickson’s one comparable and that is Mikey Powell. This kid is truly enjoying a Tewey year and he’s not done yet.

(btw, in case a Dickson family member ever reads this thread, feel free to buy me a beer one day, defending your kid while lacrosse retirees ignore his historical numbers!!)

Dickson would be in my final 5 if he'd been on the 25 list, which as the Orfling pointed out above, he wasn't on (but should have been)...it would be interesting if they made an exception and put him on there for the final list, but I'm not thinking that's likely.

From his own team, as of April 20 when it was announced (and now), I'd have put Xander ahead of Cormier. But Cormier on the list. Way, way ahead of Chris Kavanaugh, though. Pat I'm good with, 5.42 points per game, second only to Kirst. That said, Xander's incredibly more efficient with his touches.

Between Kavanaugh and Dickson, they have almost an identical number of shots-on-goal percentage (K 68%, D 72%), but one kid (Dickson) cans 57% of his shots while the other (Kavanaugh) cans only 29%.

Yet it’s Kavanaugh in the final 5 Tewey and Dickson not even top-25????

I mean, are you kidding me?!?? Who’s in charge here?

has been explained dozens of x now. april 20, his #s were similar and in several ways below cormier. having 3 guys from the same attack line would i'm sure would be unprecedented. maybe even 2 is for the final 25. dickson is mostly catch and finish on shooting. he has been extraordinarily good at it.

direct comparisons to m powell and kavanaugh don't compute. he doesn't draw the opposition's #1 and sometimes gets shorted. and he's catch and finish.

i guess it's possible he could be reincluded. rules are sometimes made to be broken. in lacrosse late season, you don't have to look far.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I’ll keep banging this drum until O’Neill gets the Tewey, but it amazes me this board fails to note Dickson’s historical shooting percentage. I can’t get numbers for previous years unfortunately, but my instinct tells me his 57% conversion ratio (at this level of goals) is an all time high. It’s really an incredible display of shooting IQ and way more worthy than Kavanaugh’s statistics (whom you keep propping up).

#10 Xander Dickson’s performance this year has been exceptional

not only his finishing but his ability to read a defense, find a seam and time his cuts

will he win the T-Award or even be named a finalist? No, probably not

but for any player wanting to improve their off ball play he is must watch TV

His success is not just a function or by-product of #1 Connor Shellenberger

His Ying & Yang combination with #24 Payton Cormier on the inside along with the scheme by OC Sean Kirwin can create a devastating mix

#1 is the star and gets all the attention but UVA's attack are greater than the sum of their parts

#4 Jeff Conner (16 A) & #26 Griffin Schutz (15 A) act as providers when #1 is the decoy

UVA 2023 may not win it all but they have been one of the most entertaining creative teams to watch

Hey when O’Neil learns to use his weak hand or even attempts to go righty we will maybe think about him. He did the same move in last game against ND,for my money he is way over rated good player but a generational guy please

I favor Kirst at this point, for a number of factors, but O'Neill's 80 points, balanced, and the attention he draws every time he leans in, certainly make him formidable. I don't care about the dominant hand issue if he produces regardless. But can't have an off day like he did vs ND.

IMO, it all depends on tournament play between Kirst and O'Neill.
If either has a down performance and his team loses, likely goes to the other.

If Kavanaugh has an exceptional tournament and ND wins, ok.

If none of the star offensive players shines, but Adler shuts down his men yet again and they make it to Memorial Day...maybe.

Could Shellenberger have the exceptional tournament and come from behind on this?
sure, but requires his injuries to not slow him down, so doubtful.

^^^ well stated. I generally agree with this, maybe excepting Kavanaugh whom i don’t think is on my top 5.

I swear my last name isn’t Dickson, so bear that in mind while I beg all of you to reconsider the young man #10 of UVA . “gaits right hand” just pointed out Dickson’s one comparable and that is Mikey Powell. This kid is truly enjoying a Tewey year and he’s not done yet.

(btw, in case a Dickson family member ever reads this thread, feel free to buy me a beer one day, defending your kid while lacrosse retirees ignore his historical numbers!!)

Dickson would be in my final 5 if he'd been on the 25 list, which as the Orfling pointed out above, he wasn't on (but should have been)...it would be interesting if they made an exception and put him on there for the final list, but I'm not thinking that's likely.

From his own team, as of April 20 when it was announced (and now), I'd have put Xander ahead of Cormier. But Cormier on the list. Way, way ahead of Chris Kavanaugh, though. Pat I'm good with, 5.42 points per game, second only to Kirst. That said, Xander's incredibly more efficient with his touches.

Between Kavanaugh and Dickson, they have almost an identical number of shots-on-goal percentage (K 68%, D 72%), but one kid (Dickson) cans 57% of his shots while the other (Kavanaugh) cans only 29%.

Yet it’s Kavanaugh in the final 5 Tewey and Dickson not even top-25????

I mean, are you kidding me?!?? Who’s in charge here?

has been explained dozens of x now. april 20, his #s were similar and in several ways below cormier. having 3 guys from the same attack line would i'm sure would be unprecedented. maybe even 2 is for the final 25. dickson is mostly catch and finish on shooting. he has been extraordinarily good at it.

direct comparisons to m powell and kavanaugh don't compute. he doesn't draw the opposition's #1 and sometimes gets shorted. and he's catch and finish.

i guess it's possible he could be reincluded. rules are sometimes made to be broken. in lacrosse late season, you don't have to look far.

You mean “last” season…

[MDlaxfan76]

I’ll keep banging this drum until O’Neill gets the Tewey, but it amazes me this board fails to note Dickson’s historical shooting percentage. I can’t get numbers for previous years unfortunately, but my instinct tells me his 57% conversion ratio (at this level of goals) is an all time high. It’s really an incredible display of shooting IQ and way more worthy than Kavanaugh’s statistics (whom you keep propping up).

#10 Xander Dickson’s performance this year has been exceptional

not only his finishing but his ability to read a defense, find a seam and time his cuts

will he win the T-Award or even be named a finalist? No, probably not

but for any player wanting to improve their off ball play he is must watch TV

His success is not just a function or by-product of #1 Connor Shellenberger

His Ying & Yang combination with #24 Payton Cormier on the inside along with the scheme by OC Sean Kirwin can create a devastating mix

#1 is the star and gets all the attention but UVA's attack are greater than the sum of their parts

#4 Jeff Conner (16 A) & #26 Griffin Schutz (15 A) act as providers when #1 is the decoy

UVA 2023 may not win it all but they have been one of the most entertaining creative teams to watch

Hey when O’Neil learns to use his weak hand or even attempts to go righty we will maybe think about him. He did the same move in last game against ND,for my money he is way over rated good player but a generational guy please

I favor Kirst at this point, for a number of factors, but O'Neill's 80 points, balanced, and the attention he draws every time he leans in, certainly make him formidable. I don't care about the dominant hand issue if he produces regardless. But can't have an off day like he did vs ND.

IMO, it all depends on tournament play between Kirst and O'Neill.
If either has a down performance and his team loses, likely goes to the other.

If Kavanaugh has an exceptional tournament and ND wins, ok.

If none of the star offensive players shines, but Adler shuts down his men yet again and they make it to Memorial Day...maybe.

Could Shellenberger have the exceptional tournament and come from behind on this?
sure, but requires his injuries to not slow him down, so doubtful.

^^^ well stated. I generally agree with this, maybe excepting Kavanaugh whom i don’t think is on my top 5.

I swear my last name isn’t Dickson, so bear that in mind while I beg all of you to reconsider the young man #10 of UVA . “gaits right hand” just pointed out Dickson’s one comparable and that is Mikey Powell. This kid is truly enjoying a Tewey year and he’s not done yet.

(btw, in case a Dickson family member ever reads this thread, feel free to buy me a beer one day, defending your kid while lacrosse retirees ignore his historical numbers!!)

Dickson would be in my final 5 if he'd been on the 25 list, which as the Orfling pointed out above, he wasn't on (but should have been)...it would be interesting if they made an exception and put him on there for the final list, but I'm not thinking that's likely.

From his own team, as of April 20 when it was announced (and now), I'd have put Xander ahead of Cormier. But Cormier on the list. Way, way ahead of Chris Kavanaugh, though. Pat I'm good with, 5.42 points per game, second only to Kirst. That said, Xander's incredibly more efficient with his touches.

Between Kavanaugh and Dickson, they have almost an identical number of shots-on-goal percentage (K 68%, D 72%), but one kid (Dickson) cans 57% of his shots while the other (Kavanaugh) cans only 29%.

Yet it’s Kavanaugh in the final 5 Tewey and Dickson not even top-25????

I mean, are you kidding me?!?? Who’s in charge here?

we agree, but I don't think the process enables him to be eligible at this point.

[MDlaxfan76]

I’ll keep banging this drum until O’Neill gets the Tewey, but it amazes me this board fails to note Dickson’s historical shooting percentage. I can’t get numbers for previous years unfortunately, but my instinct tells me his 57% conversion ratio (at this level of goals) is an all time high. It’s really an incredible display of shooting IQ and way more worthy than Kavanaugh’s statistics (whom you keep propping up).

#10 Xander Dickson’s performance this year has been exceptional

not only his finishing but his ability to read a defense, find a seam and time his cuts

will he win the T-Award or even be named a finalist? No, probably not

but for any player wanting to improve their off ball play he is must watch TV

His success is not just a function or by-product of #1 Connor Shellenberger

His Ying & Yang combination with #24 Payton Cormier on the inside along with the scheme by OC Sean Kirwin can create a devastating mix

#1 is the star and gets all the attention but UVA's attack are greater than the sum of their parts

#4 Jeff Conner (16 A) & #26 Griffin Schutz (15 A) act as providers when #1 is the decoy

UVA 2023 may not win it all but they have been one of the most entertaining creative teams to watch

Hey when O’Neil learns to use his weak hand or even attempts to go righty we will maybe think about him. He did the same move in last game against ND,for my money he is way over rated good player but a generational guy please

I favor Kirst at this point, for a number of factors, but O'Neill's 80 points, balanced, and the attention he draws every time he leans in, certainly make him formidable. I don't care about the dominant hand issue if he produces regardless. But can't have an off day like he did vs ND.

IMO, it all depends on tournament play between Kirst and O'Neill.
If either has a down performance and his team loses, likely goes to the other.

If Kavanaugh has an exceptional tournament and ND wins, ok.

If none of the star offensive players shines, but Adler shuts down his men yet again and they make it to Memorial Day...maybe.

Could Shellenberger have the exceptional tournament and come from behind on this?
sure, but requires his injuries to not slow him down, so doubtful.

^^^ well stated. I generally agree with this, maybe excepting Kavanaugh whom i don’t think is on my top 5.

I swear my last name isn’t Dickson, so bear that in mind while I beg all of you to reconsider the young man #10 of UVA . “gaits right hand” just pointed out Dickson’s one comparable and that is Mikey Powell. This kid is truly enjoying a Tewey year and he’s not done yet.

(btw, in case a Dickson family member ever reads this thread, feel free to buy me a beer one day, defending your kid while lacrosse retirees ignore his historical numbers!!)

Dickson would be in my final 5 if he'd been on the 25 list, which as the Orfling pointed out above, he wasn't on (but should have been)...it would be interesting if they made an exception and put him on there for the final list, but I'm not thinking that's likely.

From his own team, as of April 20 when it was announced (and now), I'd have put Xander ahead of Cormier. But Cormier on the list. Way, way ahead of Chris Kavanaugh, though. Pat I'm good with, 5.42 points per game, second only to Kirst. That said, Xander's incredibly more efficient with his touches.

Between Kavanaugh and Dickson, they have almost an identical number of shots-on-goal percentage (K 68%, D 72%), but one kid (Dickson) cans 57% of his shots while the other (Kavanaugh) cans only 29%.

Yet it’s Kavanaugh in the final 5 Tewey and Dickson not even top-25????

I mean, are you kidding me?!?? Who’s in charge here?

has been explained dozens of x now. april 20, his #s were similar and in several ways below cormier. having 3 guys from the same attack line would i'm sure would be unprecedented. maybe even 2 is for the final 25. dickson is mostly catch and finish on shooting. he has been extraordinarily good at it.

direct comparisons to m powell and kavanaugh don't compute. he doesn't draw the opposition's #1 and sometimes gets shorted. and he's catch and finish.

i guess it's possible he could be reincluded. rules are sometimes made to be broken. in lacrosse late season, you don't have to look far.

2 is definitely not unprecedented. Both Kavanaugh's, both Thompsons etc

[wgdsr]

I’ll keep banging this drum until O’Neill gets the Tewey, but it amazes me this board fails to note Dickson’s historical shooting percentage. I can’t get numbers for previous years unfortunately, but my instinct tells me his 57% conversion ratio (at this level of goals) is an all time high. It’s really an incredible display of shooting IQ and way more worthy than Kavanaugh’s statistics (whom you keep propping up).

#10 Xander Dickson’s performance this year has been exceptional

not only his finishing but his ability to read a defense, find a seam and time his cuts

will he win the T-Award or even be named a finalist? No, probably not

but for any player wanting to improve their off ball play he is must watch TV

His success is not just a function or by-product of #1 Connor Shellenberger

His Ying & Yang combination with #24 Payton Cormier on the inside along with the scheme by OC Sean Kirwin can create a devastating mix

#1 is the star and gets all the attention but UVA's attack are greater than the sum of their parts

#4 Jeff Conner (16 A) & #26 Griffin Schutz (15 A) act as providers when #1 is the decoy

UVA 2023 may not win it all but they have been one of the most entertaining creative teams to watch

Hey when O’Neil learns to use his weak hand or even attempts to go righty we will maybe think about him. He did the same move in last game against ND,for my money he is way over rated good player but a generational guy please

I favor Kirst at this point, for a number of factors, but O'Neill's 80 points, balanced, and the attention he draws every time he leans in, certainly make him formidable. I don't care about the dominant hand issue if he produces regardless. But can't have an off day like he did vs ND.

IMO, it all depends on tournament play between Kirst and O'Neill.
If either has a down performance and his team loses, likely goes to the other.

If Kavanaugh has an exceptional tournament and ND wins, ok.

If none of the star offensive players shines, but Adler shuts down his men yet again and they make it to Memorial Day...maybe.

Could Shellenberger have the exceptional tournament and come from behind on this?
sure, but requires his injuries to not slow him down, so doubtful.

^^^ well stated. I generally agree with this, maybe excepting Kavanaugh whom i don’t think is on my top 5.

I swear my last name isn’t Dickson, so bear that in mind while I beg all of you to reconsider the young man #10 of UVA . “gaits right hand” just pointed out Dickson’s one comparable and that is Mikey Powell. This kid is truly enjoying a Tewey year and he’s not done yet.

(btw, in case a Dickson family member ever reads this thread, feel free to buy me a beer one day, defending your kid while lacrosse retirees ignore his historical numbers!!)

Dickson would be in my final 5 if he'd been on the 25 list, which as the Orfling pointed out above, he wasn't on (but should have been)...it would be interesting if they made an exception and put him on there for the final list, but I'm not thinking that's likely.

From his own team, as of April 20 when it was announced (and now), I'd have put Xander ahead of Cormier. But Cormier on the list. Way, way ahead of Chris Kavanaugh, though. Pat I'm good with, 5.42 points per game, second only to Kirst. That said, Xander's incredibly more efficient with his touches.

Between Kavanaugh and Dickson, they have almost an identical number of shots-on-goal percentage (K 68%, D 72%), but one kid (Dickson) cans 57% of his shots while the other (Kavanaugh) cans only 29%.

Yet it’s Kavanaugh in the final 5 Tewey and Dickson not even top-25????

I mean, are you kidding me?!?? Who’s in charge here?

has been explained dozens of x now. april 20, his #s were similar and in several ways below cormier. having 3 guys from the same attack line would i'm sure would be unprecedented. maybe even 2 is for the final 25. dickson is mostly catch and finish on shooting. he has been extraordinarily good at it.

direct comparisons to m powell and kavanaugh don't compute. he doesn't draw the opposition's #1 and sometimes gets shorted. and he's catch and finish.

i guess it's possible he could be reincluded. rules are sometimes made to be broken. in lacrosse late season, you don't have to look far.

You mean “last” season…

that was a hanging slider specifically for you.

[molo]

Bruce is correct. The winner will be whichever of the finalist attackman plays the most significant role in the tournament. I think Kirst has the lead right now but expect that the ACC nominees are likely to play more games this month.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I’ll keep banging this drum until O’Neill gets the Tewey, but it amazes me this board fails to note Dickson’s historical shooting percentage. I can’t get numbers for previous years unfortunately, but my instinct tells me his 57% conversion ratio (at this level of goals) is an all time high. It’s really an incredible display of shooting IQ and way more worthy than Kavanaugh’s statistics (whom you keep propping up).

#10 Xander Dickson’s performance this year has been exceptional

not only his finishing but his ability to read a defense, find a seam and time his cuts

will he win the T-Award or even be named a finalist? No, probably not

but for any player wanting to improve their off ball play he is must watch TV

His success is not just a function or by-product of #1 Connor Shellenberger

His Ying & Yang combination with #24 Payton Cormier on the inside along with the scheme by OC Sean Kirwin can create a devastating mix

#1 is the star and gets all the attention but UVA's attack are greater than the sum of their parts

#4 Jeff Conner (16 A) & #26 Griffin Schutz (15 A) act as providers when #1 is the decoy

UVA 2023 may not win it all but they have been one of the most entertaining creative teams to watch

Hey when O’Neil learns to use his weak hand or even attempts to go righty we will maybe think about him. He did the same move in last game against ND,for my money he is way over rated good player but a generational guy please

I favor Kirst at this point, for a number of factors, but O'Neill's 80 points, balanced, and the attention he draws every time he leans in, certainly make him formidable. I don't care about the dominant hand issue if he produces regardless. But can't have an off day like he did vs ND.

IMO, it all depends on tournament play between Kirst and O'Neill.
If either has a down performance and his team loses, likely goes to the other.

If Kavanaugh has an exceptional tournament and ND wins, ok.

If none of the star offensive players shines, but Adler shuts down his men yet again and they make it to Memorial Day...maybe.

Could Shellenberger have the exceptional tournament and come from behind on this?
sure, but requires his injuries to not slow him down, so doubtful.

^^^ well stated. I generally agree with this, maybe excepting Kavanaugh whom i don’t think is on my top 5.

I swear my last name isn’t Dickson, so bear that in mind while I beg all of you to reconsider the young man #10 of UVA . “gaits right hand” just pointed out Dickson’s one comparable and that is Mikey Powell. This kid is truly enjoying a Tewey year and he’s not done yet.

(btw, in case a Dickson family member ever reads this thread, feel free to buy me a beer one day, defending your kid while lacrosse retirees ignore his historical numbers!!)

Dickson would be in my final 5 if he'd been on the 25 list, which as the Orfling pointed out above, he wasn't on (but should have been)...it would be interesting if they made an exception and put him on there for the final list, but I'm not thinking that's likely.

From his own team, as of April 20 when it was announced (and now), I'd have put Xander ahead of Cormier. But Cormier on the list. Way, way ahead of Chris Kavanaugh, though. Pat I'm good with, 5.42 points per game, second only to Kirst. That said, Xander's incredibly more efficient with his touches.

Between Kavanaugh and Dickson, they have almost an identical number of shots-on-goal percentage (K 68%, D 72%), but one kid (Dickson) cans 57% of his shots while the other (Kavanaugh) cans only 29%.

Yet it’s Kavanaugh in the final 5 Tewey and Dickson not even top-25????

I mean, are you kidding me?!?? Who’s in charge here?

has been explained dozens of x now. april 20, his #s were similar and in several ways below cormier. having 3 guys from the same attack line would i'm sure would be unprecedented. maybe even 2 is for the final 25. dickson is mostly catch and finish on shooting. he has been extraordinarily good at it.

direct comparisons to m powell and kavanaugh don't compute. he doesn't draw the opposition's #1 and sometimes gets shorted. and he's catch and finish.

i guess it's possible he could be reincluded. rules are sometimes made to be broken. in lacrosse late season, you don't have to look far.

You mean “last” season…

that was a hanging slider specifically for you.

I know!!

[ny10458]

https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... prediction

It's ridiculous Dordevic has hardly been mentioned on this thread as a finalist possibility, especially over Makar. Having an absolutely monster season, especially in the back half. First attackman picked in last night's PLL draft and let's get real, there's not going to be more than one pole finalist and that's gonna go to Adler.

[Finster]

https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... prediction

It's ridiculous Dordevic has hardly been mentioned on this thread as a finalist possibility, especially over Makar. Having an absolutely monster season, especially in the back half. First attackman picked in last night's PLL draft and let's get real, there's not going to be more than one pole finalist and that's gonna go to Adler.

35% shooting percentage, 163 shots, 25 TO’s.

Nope.

[blue angels]

https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... prediction

It's ridiculous Dordevic has hardly been mentioned on this thread as a finalist possibility, especially over Makar. Having an absolutely monster season, especially in the back half. First attackman picked in last night's PLL draft and let's get real, there's not going to be more than one pole finalist and that's gonna go to Adler.

35% shooting percentage, 163 shots, 25 TO’s.

Nope.

Other than the homers pushing their guy, the idea of a clear front runner, often discussed here, won’t really arise till after the quarters. Even then, it might still be a 2 or3 horse race.

[Gatsby]

https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... prediction

It's ridiculous Dordevic has hardly been mentioned on this thread as a finalist possibility, especially over Makar. Having an absolutely monster season, especially in the back half. First attackman picked in last night's PLL draft and let's get real, there's not going to be more than one pole finalist and that's gonna go to Adler.

35% shooting percentage, 163 shots, 25 TO’s.

Nope.

I was also struck by the huge amount of shot attempts by some of the goal scorers on the list, including Kirst and Dordevic. While they have a lot of goals, they also have many more attempts. More than twice as many as Kavanagh or Shellenberger, and 40% more than Dickson or Cormier. If others like Dickson or Cormier shot as much as these guys, they'd be leading the nation in goals as well.

Anyway, as others have pointed out, tournament performance will likely be the decider.

[ny10458]

https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... prediction

It's ridiculous Dordevic has hardly been mentioned on this thread as a finalist possibility, especially over Makar. Having an absolutely monster season, especially in the back half. First attackman picked in last night's PLL draft and let's get real, there's not going to be more than one pole finalist and that's gonna go to Adler.

35% shooting percentage, 163 shots, 25 TO’s.

Nope.

Obnoxiously reductionist response.

Do you even know the other players' stats? He's shooting at a greater percentage than Kirst and PKav. Only slightly below O'Neill's. No statistically significant difference in TOs between Dordevic and those guys either. I don't why he can't be the fifth guy on the list, and besides it isn't a pure stats contest anyways. I'd argue Dordevic shoulders a bigger load for his team than PKav or Shellenberger do.

The whole "if X shot more they'd score more goals" is such a stupid truism...like, yeah, that's why we use shooting percentage.