The private schools in the MIAA are predominantly 9-12ohmilax34 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:10 amAre the kids coming out of the private schools attending those schools K-12 or are they attending public schools K-8, then going to the private school for 9-12? The reason I ask, is because I get hung up when we use the word "produce" to mean that those schools developed the player. My guess is, for the most part, that these private schools in the DMV area are K-12 and the kids are usually attending school there for K-12.Wheels wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:28 pm The public-private thing in the DMV for lacrosse is so different than in other places. In PA, you still have a lot of public school kids play at the highest levels of D1 even though Inter-AC teams, St. Joe's Prep, and La Salle College Prep are also powerhouses. Same in NJ...very good public HS programs balanced by your Delbarton's of NJ. It's not that good players don't come out of the public schools in Maryland (and northern VA), it's just that the privates in the DMV produce such a disproportionate amount of lacrosse talent.
Of course, if there is some sort of town team that a kid plays on through 8th grade, that is part of their development. I'm guessing club teams have taken over town teams for the most part.
Maryland 2022 National Champions
Re: Maryland 2022
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Re: Maryland 2022
I don't know why there'd be fewer players from Philly and that area, and Tillman has done very well there, but the pool outside of the old legacy areas will continue to grow and make the old school appear smaller by comparisonWheels wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:28 pmTills is smart. The number of HS students PA-northward and out through the Great Lakes region is collapsing through 2030. All of the growth in HS population is happening in places like GA, TX, and the like. Northern transplants become pied pipers for the game, and now the game is growing. But if you're a school like Maryland that successfully recruits places like Long Island and southeastern PA, the numbers of players in those places is going to shrink...and the recruiting competition for the fewer players will increase. Makes sense to develop pipelines in GA, TX, and FL. I suspect NC will continue to increase in the number of really good HS players coming out of that state. But PA, NJ, and NY? Fewer players, more recruiting competition.keno in reno wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:12 pmKudos to Kevin McNulty for a professional level article. I've always thought that the growth of the talent base would help Maryland's recruiting, as the legacy northeast hotbeds including MIAA seemed to favor Duke, Uva, UNC and Ivies first. As we're seeing, there's a ton of athletes in Georgia, Florida, Texas, Cali and the Pacific Northwest to fill the gaps.AreaLax wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:52 am
Atlanta is becoming a lacrosse hotbed. Maryland is capitalizing.
Re: Maryland 2022
There are more MIAA schools that are not just HS than are. And MsJ and JC aren't really relevant in laxjrn19 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:56 pmThe private schools in the MIAA are predominantly 9-12ohmilax34 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:10 amAre the kids coming out of the private schools attending those schools K-12 or are they attending public schools K-8, then going to the private school for 9-12? The reason I ask, is because I get hung up when we use the word "produce" to mean that those schools developed the player. My guess is, for the most part, that these private schools in the DMV area are K-12 and the kids are usually attending school there for K-12.Wheels wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:28 pm The public-private thing in the DMV for lacrosse is so different than in other places. In PA, you still have a lot of public school kids play at the highest levels of D1 even though Inter-AC teams, St. Joe's Prep, and La Salle College Prep are also powerhouses. Same in NJ...very good public HS programs balanced by your Delbarton's of NJ. It's not that good players don't come out of the public schools in Maryland (and northern VA), it's just that the privates in the DMV produce such a disproportionate amount of lacrosse talent.
Of course, if there is some sort of town team that a kid plays on through 8th grade, that is part of their development. I'm guessing club teams have taken over town teams for the most part.
McD: K-12
BL: K-12
Gilman: K-12
SP: K-12
Severn: K-12
Loyola: 6-12
CHC: 9-12
StM: 9-12
MSJ: 9-12
JC: 9-12
Re: Maryland 2022
It's a mix of demography and migration. Years of people moving south and GenX people not having as many babies. PA and northward have shrinking HS populations through the remainder of this decade. Fewer HS students, fewer HS lacrosse players. When the number of HS students in that region rebounds, it will be led by an increase of Hispanic students (must grow the game in many different ways, no?). So, yes, there will be fewer players coming out of the PHL area relative to even now over the next 9 years, which means more competition for those players (unless the # of D1 programs shrinks, too).keno in reno wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:38 pm
I don't know why there'd be fewer players from Philly and that area, and Tillman has done very well there, but the pool outside of the old legacy areas will continue to grow and make the old school appear smaller by comparison
I see it now in my son's 2025 age group. Unlike the preceding graduation years, the 2025 age group in the PHL area is a total mess. So many spots open up every year across programs in the 2025 age group that kids are moving all over the place from club-to-club. We're not talking 2 or 3 players moving into a club or dropping out. We're talking half of rosters turning over every year or so. This past year, Team 10 went from being a good A-level team at the 2025 age group to being a super team. Freedom 2 years ago was a super team, and now they're struggling in AA brackets and are more competitive in A brackets. HHH was a super team 2 years ago but have come back to the pack. I've talked to a bunch of coaches across clubs, and they're like "we don't know what's going on with the 2025s." You don't see those kids of swings in the 2022s-2024s.
When you get to 8th/9th grade, some kids will naturally choose other sports or choose to stop playing. So that always creates a couple of spots a year for some movement. But the clubs have set up their infrastructure over the past 10 years based on a model where there are more kids playing. With the 2025s, at least, that's not the case. Kids are moving on to different sports and there are fewer kids playing, so some teams are losing 6 and 7 kids a year.
My son's current team has always been a solid to above average A-level team that would occasionally play in a AA bracket depending on the tournament. They lost 5 kids last year and look like they're going to replace another 5 kids this year. Half of the roster will have turned over in 2 years. That seems to be the norm among a lot of 2025 club teams up here. It's wild.
Re: Maryland 2022
Paul Rabill in his late night appearance with Seth Meyers talked about picking up a stick in 9th grade. Is he a generational talent? Is that why he succeeded? Maybe? I have never heard him described that way. What about the HS freshman today who has never played lacrosse and doesn’t pick up a stick because he is told it is too late. Just think of all the kids who don’t pick up the stick because there is no longer a local rec program. Not everyone has the means to join a club or the access to transportation to participate.
More importantly what about the 8, 9 or 10 year old who finds himself on the sideline with limited playing time because he isn’t as good as his teammates. Maybe that child gets discouraged and goes to another sport. You really have to be a visionary to tell an 8 year old they will never play at the “next level”.
Look around at the number of athletes who play professional sports, it is not a lot. But even so there are some who didn’t begin playing until HS. They just grew up into who they are without paying thousands of dollars to a club.
Grow the game, make it accessible through some of the new initiatives which through limited gear take out the cost factor. Let kids learn not just the game but what it means to be on and play for a team of their community. Don’t make it about specialization and lacrosse 365.
My two cents.
More importantly what about the 8, 9 or 10 year old who finds himself on the sideline with limited playing time because he isn’t as good as his teammates. Maybe that child gets discouraged and goes to another sport. You really have to be a visionary to tell an 8 year old they will never play at the “next level”.
Look around at the number of athletes who play professional sports, it is not a lot. But even so there are some who didn’t begin playing until HS. They just grew up into who they are without paying thousands of dollars to a club.
Grow the game, make it accessible through some of the new initiatives which through limited gear take out the cost factor. Let kids learn not just the game but what it means to be on and play for a team of their community. Don’t make it about specialization and lacrosse 365.
My two cents.
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Re: Maryland 2022
I'm across the river in south Jersey, and my oldest is a 2024. On his team, turnover is 2-3 kids a year at most. What you're describing is absolutely nuts!
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Re: Maryland 2022
agreed!cbrass wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:43 pm Paul Rabill in his late night appearance with Seth Meyers talked about picking up a stick in 9th grade. Is he a generational talent? Is that why he succeeded? Maybe? I have never heard him described that way. What about the HS freshman today who has never played lacrosse and doesn’t pick up a stick because he is told it is too late. Just think of all the kids who don’t pick up the stick because there is no longer a local rec program. Not everyone has the means to join a club or the access to transportation to participate.
More importantly what about the 8, 9 or 10 year old who finds himself on the sideline with limited playing time because he isn’t as good as his teammates. Maybe that child gets discouraged and goes to another sport. You really have to be a visionary to tell an 8 year old they will never play at the “next level”.
Look around at the number of athletes who play professional sports, it is not a lot. But even so there are some who didn’t begin playing until HS. They just grew up into who they are without paying thousands of dollars to a club.
Grow the game, make it accessible through some of the new initiatives which through limited gear take out the cost factor. Let kids learn not just the game but what it means to be on and play for a team of their community. Don’t make it about specialization and lacrosse 365.
My two cents.
This is what happens when you listen and allow club and HS coaches to drive the message. They'll tell you that your son needs to play Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter...for one reason, to help them win and look good. Or make you worry that your kid wont make the team. Lacrosse is not an overly complicated sport, which is why it is often called the great equalizer when it comes to size, speed, skill. It has gotten to be a bit more 'skill' oriented. I have seen plenty of player put the stick away after HS season and not pick it back up until next spring....only to be back in lax shape within a couple weeks.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy
~Livy
Re: Maryland 2022
I remembered looking at Syracuse's roster and seeing what the breakdown of public vs. private is and their current roster is ~68% public. I counted Chase Scanlan as both public and private. I was surprised that it was so heavily public, because it seems the trend is private, however, these public HS players aren't from poor towns. I see Torrey Pines, Woodlands, Mountain Lakes, Ridgefield, Highland Park. Of course, we could look at Syracuse's roster as an example of how not to build a roster.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:43 pm but the biggest one, not exclusive to dmv, is rosters have skewed major private at most "top" schools. uva from this year's ff maybe the closest to 50/50, the rest and many others including ivies are 1.5 - 3 to 1. this is a change from x years ago... it's an investment.
Re: Maryland 2022
cuse is in a unique spot.ohmilax34 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:47 amI remembered looking at Syracuse's roster and seeing what the breakdown of public vs. private is and their current roster is ~68% public. I counted Chase Scanlan as both public and private. I was surprised that it was so heavily public, because it seems the trend is private, however, these public HS players aren't from poor towns. I see Torrey Pines, Woodlands, Mountain Lakes, Ridgefield, Highland Park. Of course, we could look at Syracuse's roster as an example of how not to build a roster.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:43 pm but the biggest one, not exclusive to dmv, is rosters have skewed major private at most "top" schools. uva from this year's ff maybe the closest to 50/50, the rest and many others including ivies are 1.5 - 3 to 1. this is a change from x years ago... it's an investment.
- tough(er?) to get southerners to come up north
- can take advantage of demographic that doesn't kill it financially (and can't get in ivy) bc of financial aid
- lot of fertile ground locally, still. tho long island being underrecruited has always been weird.
maybe a valid criticism is how large recruit classes have been. let's not forget that for the last decade, we're talking about playoff success and a fine line. they have been more than competitive everywhere else.
sometimes guys want to bolt, but cuse in the way back maybe lands conners, irelan, fields, makar, hudgins, bertrand, a few canucks and their eyes aren't elsewhere.
Re: Maryland 2022
I remember looking at their 2000 roster and CNY and LI were the hometowns of the majority of the contributors, and those two were split about 50/50. LI guys included Liam Banks, Billy St. George, Rob Mulligan, Tim Byrnes, Chris Cercy. There was an occasional NJ, MD, Hudson Valley player.wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:25 amcuse is in a unique spot.ohmilax34 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:47 amI remembered looking at Syracuse's roster and seeing what the breakdown of public vs. private is and their current roster is ~68% public. I counted Chase Scanlan as both public and private. I was surprised that it was so heavily public, because it seems the trend is private, however, these public HS players aren't from poor towns. I see Torrey Pines, Woodlands, Mountain Lakes, Ridgefield, Highland Park. Of course, we could look at Syracuse's roster as an example of how not to build a roster.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:43 pm but the biggest one, not exclusive to dmv, is rosters have skewed major private at most "top" schools. uva from this year's ff maybe the closest to 50/50, the rest and many others including ivies are 1.5 - 3 to 1. this is a change from x years ago... it's an investment.
- tough(er?) to get southerners to come up north
- can take advantage of demographic that doesn't kill it financially (and can't get in ivy) bc of financial aid
- lot of fertile ground locally, still. tho long island being underrecruited has always been weird.
maybe a valid criticism is how large recruit classes have been. let's not forget that for the last decade, we're talking about playoff success and a fine line. they have been more than competitive everywhere else.
sometimes guys want to bolt, but cuse in the way back maybe lands conners, irelan, fields, makar, hudgins, bertrand, a few canucks and their eyes aren't elsewhere.
Re: Maryland 2022
well, they're back on the island now, at least for one year in '22. jd (and march's) xmas present to gait. see if they get a blueprint. i suspect you'll see more canadians.ohmilax34 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:01 amI remember looking at their 2000 roster and CNY and LI were the hometowns of the majority of the contributors, and those two were split about 50/50. LI guys included Liam Banks, Billy St. George, Rob Mulligan, Tim Byrnes, Chris Cercy. There was an occasional NJ, MD, Hudson Valley player.wgdsr wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:25 amcuse is in a unique spot.ohmilax34 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:47 amI remembered looking at Syracuse's roster and seeing what the breakdown of public vs. private is and their current roster is ~68% public. I counted Chase Scanlan as both public and private. I was surprised that it was so heavily public, because it seems the trend is private, however, these public HS players aren't from poor towns. I see Torrey Pines, Woodlands, Mountain Lakes, Ridgefield, Highland Park. Of course, we could look at Syracuse's roster as an example of how not to build a roster.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:43 pm but the biggest one, not exclusive to dmv, is rosters have skewed major private at most "top" schools. uva from this year's ff maybe the closest to 50/50, the rest and many others including ivies are 1.5 - 3 to 1. this is a change from x years ago... it's an investment.
- tough(er?) to get southerners to come up north
- can take advantage of demographic that doesn't kill it financially (and can't get in ivy) bc of financial aid
- lot of fertile ground locally, still. tho long island being underrecruited has always been weird.
maybe a valid criticism is how large recruit classes have been. let's not forget that for the last decade, we're talking about playoff success and a fine line. they have been more than competitive everywhere else.
sometimes guys want to bolt, but cuse in the way back maybe lands conners, irelan, fields, makar, hudgins, bertrand, a few canucks and their eyes aren't elsewhere.
Re: Maryland 2022
A lot of this is really hard to tease out, and the DMV area might be the worst area to look at. Outside of Baltimore and Annapolis, most public schools in Maryland didn't offer varsity lacrosse until well in to the 1990s. So the private schools in and around DC were the only game in town. Then you add in that the WCAC schools are athletic powers in multiple sports. DeMatha for football and obviously basketball. Gonzaga for football and basketball. Good Counsel for football. St. John's now has Daddy Warbucks Plank deciding to make SJC the IMG of the north. PVI has a strong basketball program. So those schools all had the recruiting infrastructure to start recruiting middle school kids away from publics, and that's what happened in lacrosse. (As an alum of a WCAC school, I'm quite familiar with all of this!)
The MIAA and IAC schools couldn't compete with the WCAC in football and basketball until very recently, but all they decided to do was to say "well, if the WCAC recruits middle schoolers, so will we." It was a philosophical decision, and I'm sure the alumni had a big influence on the decision to start recruiting middle schoolers for sports reasons (pride is a thing, isn't it?!). Now many of the MIAA and IAC schools compete quite well in football and basketball.
But the rest of the US isn't like that. Sure, the Syracuse region has some really good private schools, but things aren't set up in a similar way. Long Island has Chaminade and St. Anthony's, but that's about it. The elite private HS in NYC haven't seemed to emphasize sports like lacrosse too The the Philly area, the Inter-AC schools and St. Joe's and La Salle are now just starting to recruit full scale across all sports just like the WCAC.
In the growing regions for lacrosse, the public schools started at the same exact place as the privates; and it looks like the publics are doing quite well developing good lacrosse programs.
I also can't help but think that the public/private split also has something to do with the club scene.
The MIAA and IAC schools couldn't compete with the WCAC in football and basketball until very recently, but all they decided to do was to say "well, if the WCAC recruits middle schoolers, so will we." It was a philosophical decision, and I'm sure the alumni had a big influence on the decision to start recruiting middle schoolers for sports reasons (pride is a thing, isn't it?!). Now many of the MIAA and IAC schools compete quite well in football and basketball.
But the rest of the US isn't like that. Sure, the Syracuse region has some really good private schools, but things aren't set up in a similar way. Long Island has Chaminade and St. Anthony's, but that's about it. The elite private HS in NYC haven't seemed to emphasize sports like lacrosse too The the Philly area, the Inter-AC schools and St. Joe's and La Salle are now just starting to recruit full scale across all sports just like the WCAC.
In the growing regions for lacrosse, the public schools started at the same exact place as the privates; and it looks like the publics are doing quite well developing good lacrosse programs.
I also can't help but think that the public/private split also has something to do with the club scene.
Re: Maryland 2022
I grew up in NY and realized when I was at UMD in the late 2000s that all the high school talent from Maryland was from private schools and how different that was from NY. When I played in high school upstate there were some pretty good private schools but all the dynasties were public schools.ohmilax34 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:47 amI remembered looking at Syracuse's roster and seeing what the breakdown of public vs. private is and their current roster is ~68% public. I counted Chase Scanlan as both public and private. I was surprised that it was so heavily public, because it seems the trend is private, however, these public HS players aren't from poor towns. I see Torrey Pines, Woodlands, Mountain Lakes, Ridgefield, Highland Park. Of course, we could look at Syracuse's roster as an example of how not to build a roster.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:43 pm but the biggest one, not exclusive to dmv, is rosters have skewed major private at most "top" schools. uva from this year's ff maybe the closest to 50/50, the rest and many others including ivies are 1.5 - 3 to 1. this is a change from x years ago... it's an investment.
Re: Maryland 2022
Adrenaline All-American Lacrosse game this Sunday , July 24 at 4 PM on ESPN 3.
#2 on the South team is Noah Beacham
#2 on the South team is Noah Beacham
Re: Maryland 2022
Benson and Petro in their new colors
Rumor is that Maryland will play Cuse this coming season
https://twitter.com/tyxanders/status/14 ... 28262?s=21
Rumor is that Maryland will play Cuse this coming season
https://twitter.com/tyxanders/status/14 ... 28262?s=21
Re: Maryland 2022--Spanos, Trader, and Burface at the UA Games
Wayne and myself had a chance to talk with 3 or Maryland's top recruits for 2022 at the Under Armour Games practice at Johns Hopkins today---Eric Spanos, Dante Trader, and Collin Burface.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFbXmgCpzI&t=60s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aFbXmgCpzI&t=60s
Re: Maryland 2022 Demma Hall, Madison Sterling, Emily Lamparter at the UA Games
Wayne Viener and myself had a chance to interview 3 recruits representing Maryland at the Under Games Games practice today at Homewood Field
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR-b2sVJuxM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR-b2sVJuxM
Re: Maryland 2022
Looks like the volunteer coach, Ty Barbarich is leaving. This looks like a farwell IG
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSPKjEonV8t ... =copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSPKjEonV8t ... =copy_link