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Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:35 pm
by old salt
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:27 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:12 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:11 am
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:17 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:10 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:58 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:34 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:33 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:23 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:57 pm
I know what your words were and “hyperbole” was Race War....
;)
It won't be hyperbole if it happens.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... a-race-war
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/s ... acewar.htm
You “own’ top of it
So you think black & white people, shooting each other in our streets, based soley on skin color, does not constitute a race war ?
You have your opinion on that. I have mine. Be careful which streets you choose to drive during peaceful protests.
I am not sure I saw that....did you, Charlie?
I missed it...
I found some footage from those riots Schmidlap talked about that took place this year....not sure how I missed it;

This is what you get when your knowledge of history is limited to youtube searches.
History for tv studies majors. Stick with sitcoms, Capt Video.
Actually my great grandparents (maternal) lived in East St. Louis Cap’n...you frequented bars there in the hey day.....remember?
It would have been a pretty good place to live back then.
The E side I experienced.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
...during the 1950s and '60s, East St. Louis was a blue-collar showplace, the premier city in southern Illinois. It had verve.
Un huh.
Lots of jobs, neighborhoods, churches, great HS sports teams, music scene w/ bars & clubs that stayed open late.
The unions were fully integrated by then.

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:38 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:35 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:27 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:12 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:11 am
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:17 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:10 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:58 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:34 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:33 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:23 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:57 pm
I know what your words were and “hyperbole” was Race War....
;)
It won't be hyperbole if it happens.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... a-race-war
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/s ... acewar.htm
You “own’ top of it
So you think black & white people, shooting each other in our streets, based soley on skin color, does not constitute a race war ?
You have your opinion on that. I have mine. Be careful which streets you choose to drive during peaceful protests.
I am not sure I saw that....did you, Charlie?
I missed it...
I found some footage from those riots Schmidlap talked about that took place this year....not sure how I missed it;

This is what you get when your knowledge of history is limited to youtube searches.
History for tv studies majors. Stick with sitcoms, Capt Video.
Actually my great grandparents (maternal) lived in East St. Louis Cap’n...you frequented bars there in the hey day.....remember?
It would have been a pretty good place to live back then.
The E side I experienced.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
...during the 1950s and '60s, East St. Louis was a blue-collar showplace, the premier city in southern Illinois. It had verve.
Un huh.
Lots of jobs, neighborhoods, churches, great HS sports teams, music scene w/ bars & clubs that stayed open late.
The unions were fully integrated by then.
Un huh.

EDIT: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithson ... 180963885/

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:03 pm
by old salt
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:38 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:35 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:27 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:12 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:11 am
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:17 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:10 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:58 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:34 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:33 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:23 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:57 pm
I know what your words were and “hyperbole” was Race War....
;)
It won't be hyperbole if it happens.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... a-race-war
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/s ... acewar.htm
You “own’ top of it
So you think black & white people, shooting each other in our streets, based soley on skin color, does not constitute a race war ?
You have your opinion on that. I have mine. Be careful which streets you choose to drive during peaceful protests.
I am not sure I saw that....did you, Charlie?
I missed it...
I found some footage from those riots Schmidlap talked about that took place this year....not sure how I missed it;

This is what you get when your knowledge of history is limited to youtube searches.
History for tv studies majors. Stick with sitcoms, Capt Video.
Actually my great grandparents (maternal) lived in East St. Louis Cap’n...you frequented bars there in the hey day.....remember?
It would have been a pretty good place to live back then.
The E side I experienced.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
...during the 1950s and '60s, East St. Louis was a blue-collar showplace, the premier city in southern Illinois. It had verve.
Un huh.
Lots of jobs, neighborhoods, churches, great HS sports teams, music scene w/ bars & clubs that stayed open late.
The unions were fully integrated by then.
Un huh.

EDIT: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithson ... 180963885/
1917 ? :roll:
http://www.stlmusicyesterdays.com/Blue%20Note.htm

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:11 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:03 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:38 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:35 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:27 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:12 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:11 am
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:17 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:10 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:58 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:34 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:33 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:23 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:57 pm
I know what your words were and “hyperbole” was Race War....
;)
It won't be hyperbole if it happens.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... a-race-war
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/s ... acewar.htm
You “own’ top of it
So you think black & white people, shooting each other in our streets, based soley on skin color, does not constitute a race war ?
You have your opinion on that. I have mine. Be careful which streets you choose to drive during peaceful protests.
I am not sure I saw that....did you, Charlie?
I missed it...
I found some footage from those riots Schmidlap talked about that took place this year....not sure how I missed it;

This is what you get when your knowledge of history is limited to youtube searches.
History for tv studies majors. Stick with sitcoms, Capt Video.
Actually my great grandparents (maternal) lived in East St. Louis Cap’n...you frequented bars there in the hey day.....remember?
It would have been a pretty good place to live back then.
The E side I experienced.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
...during the 1950s and '60s, East St. Louis was a blue-collar showplace, the premier city in southern Illinois. It had verve.
Un huh.
Lots of jobs, neighborhoods, churches, great HS sports teams, music scene w/ bars & clubs that stayed open late.
The unions were fully integrated by then.
Un huh.

EDIT: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithson ... 180963885/
1917 ? :roll:
http://www.stlmusicyesterdays.com/Blue%20Note.htm
East St. Louis has undergone ups and downs. The issue was your claim that the only history I know is from video after I posted that one.....(I posted that video as an example of a “race war”...a little different from what we saw this summer)....I was just pointing out that history is also passed down word of mouth. No criticism of the history of E. St. Louis. No different from history in lots of places. Most people’s knowledge of history is what they were taught from a book. Thats is usually just a fragment of history was my point. You have fond memories of that place....like many people. You also have fond memories of my home town.

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:16 pm
by Farfromgeneva
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:11 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:03 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:38 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:35 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:27 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:12 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:11 am
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:17 am
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:10 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:58 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:34 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:33 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:23 pm
old salt wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:09 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:57 pm
I know what your words were and “hyperbole” was Race War....
;)
It won't be hyperbole if it happens.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... a-race-war
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/s ... acewar.htm
You “own’ top of it
So you think black & white people, shooting each other in our streets, based soley on skin color, does not constitute a race war ?
You have your opinion on that. I have mine. Be careful which streets you choose to drive during peaceful protests.
I am not sure I saw that....did you, Charlie?
I missed it...
I found some footage from those riots Schmidlap talked about that took place this year....not sure how I missed it;

This is what you get when your knowledge of history is limited to youtube searches.
History for tv studies majors. Stick with sitcoms, Capt Video.
Actually my great grandparents (maternal) lived in East St. Louis Cap’n...you frequented bars there in the hey day.....remember?
It would have been a pretty good place to live back then.
The E side I experienced.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html
...during the 1950s and '60s, East St. Louis was a blue-collar showplace, the premier city in southern Illinois. It had verve.
Un huh.
Lots of jobs, neighborhoods, churches, great HS sports teams, music scene w/ bars & clubs that stayed open late.
The unions were fully integrated by then.
Un huh.

EDIT: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithson ... 180963885/
1917 ? :roll:
http://www.stlmusicyesterdays.com/Blue%20Note.htm
East St. Louis has undergone ups and downs. The issue was your claim that the only history I know is from video after I posted that one.....(I posted that video as an example of a “race war”...a little difficult from what we say this summer)....I was just pointing out that history is also passed down word of mouth. No criticism of the history of E. St. Louis. No different from history in lots of places. Most people’s knowledge of history is what they were taught from a book. Thats is usually just a fragment of history was my point. You have fond memories of that place....like many people. You also have fond memories of my home town.
Better than having fond memories of an old out of service camp in Dresden I suppose

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:53 pm
by seacoaster
Nice vent about the Chief POS:

https://gfile.thedispatch.com/p/this-wa ... s-the-plan

“Dear Reader (including those of you who are starting to layer up like Steve Bannon to deal with the cold),

I rather enjoy not writing about Donald Trump. My column today is on why I think forgiving student debt is a bad idea. On Wednesday, I wrote a pithy and fun G-File that barely mentioned the sitting president. It was nice.

I’d like more of this. But I feel like I need to vent some rage. If you don’t want to read it, fine, skip ahead to the Canine Update. Or stop reading entirely. Or unsubscribe. Or eat an enormous wheel of industrial grade salad bar cheese. Do whatever you want—I’m not the boss of you, nor you of me.

The thing is, I am very angry.

The president of the United States is trying to steal an election he clearly and unequivocally lost.

Even liberals frame this fact wrong. They keep saying that Trump is undermining the legitimacy of the election. He is certainly doing that. But the undermining isn’t the end he most desires—it’s the means to that end. The man is literally trying to steal an election.

He may not think—anymore—that this is the most likely outcome. But he certainly thinks it’s one of the possible outcomes, and one of the few things we know about Trump is that he likes to keep his options open. From the reporting, he’s pursuing a bunch of goals, many of which reinforce each other.

Claiming the election was stolen lets him pretend—to himself or the country—that he’s not a loser. Claiming the election was stolen and pretending that he’s not a loser keeps his hardcore fan base with him, which will be good for him no matter what happens. It’s good prep work for some kind of “Trump TV” and/or for a potential bid to run again in 2024—at least in his mind. But he surely also thinks there’s a chance, however slim, that he will actually get to steal the presidency. If this was all just a show, he wouldn’t need to invite Michigan pols to the White House, presumably to strong arm them.

Think about it this way: Let’s say there’s a 99 percent chance he won’t be able to do any of the things that could result in him staying in power. He won’t be able to flip various state electors, get the courts to invalidate millions of votes, or get this sent to the House. But odds are good that in his head he thinks he’s got a maybe a 5 percent or 10 percent chance. Maybe even better than that.

As outrageous as his effort to delegitimize the election is—and it is very outrageous—that outrage pales like a lit candle next to the noonday summer sun when you compare it to an effort to literally overturn the popular and Electoral College vote and steal the election. But because that outcome is so unlikely, and Trump’s effort to pull it off is so comically inept, people are focusing on the more likely outrage rather than the more outrageous outrage.

This was the plan.

It’s pretty clear now—as I think Nicholas Grossman pretty accurately predicted—that his goal was always to steal the election if he didn’t win fairly.* He was pretty transparent about this long before the election. He spent months saying that mail-in or early ballots were rife with fraud. He told all of his voters to vote on Election Day. He expected this would give him a “mirage” lead that night, and then, because he had already established the illegitimacy of mail-in ballots, he could pretend to be justified in proclaiming victory on Election Night.

Sure, there would be lawsuits and the like later, but Trump would have momentum on his side. He even telegraphed over and over that he expected the Supreme Court to come to his rescue amid the chaos. That was his primary explanation for why he thought it was important to get Amy Coney Barrett confirmed.

But as Grossman points out, there was just one problem: Trump wasn’t actually leading on Election Night. It’s one thing to declare victory prematurely when the tally on the scoreboard on your side is tied—it’s another to claim that you won when even the scoreboard clearly says you didn’t.

This, by the way, explains why Trump World was so very, very, very, angry about Fox’s decision to call Arizona. I’ll admit, I thought the anger at Fox was simply stupid, not evil. I wrote of the people screaming at Fox:

[They] … are the political equivalent of Kathy Bates in Misery. They think the Fox News Decision Desk is James Caan, and their collective sin is not writing the story the way the MAGA Kathys wanted. And they’re ignoring the fact that even if Fox banged out precisely the story the Kathys wanted on their metaphorical manual typewriters, it wouldn’t change the fact that the story they want is fiction. Trump lost because more Americans—in total and in the necessary states—voted against him. Grow up and deal with it.

But it turns out that the Arizona call ruined the pretext. If Pennsylvania had been the tipping point, they thought they could get the election thrown to the court. But the Arizona call combined with the undeclared result in Georgia preempted that.

So now the Trump team is falling back on sheer gall, breathtaking dishonesty, and gobsmacking insanity. Noah Rothman laid out the naked idiocy of what they’re trying to do. Sadly, he wrote his piece before Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell said, “Hold our beers.” The theory—theories? —they laid out yesterday made Billy Madison’s speech seem like the Gettysburg Address and Demosthenes’ Third Philippic rolled into one.

I’m not going to spend a lot of time explaining why any theory that hinges on the cutting-edge computer know-how of Hugo Chavez’s Venezuela is going to have problems (see our fact checks here). I’ll just note that even if you sat there watching that thing and said, “This sounds plausible,” it doesn’t change the fact they offered no proof of what they were alleging. Nor have any of their lawyers when they have stood before a judge. On Twitter and in press conferences, Trump (and Trump World) are alleging world-historic crimes. In front of judges, their lawyers are muttering about Sharpies.

Tucker’s indictment.

Tucker Carlson’s getting a lot of praise for calling B.S. on Powell’s allegations. I’m glad he’s doing it, even if I have problems with his late conversion to Trump-skepticism. I also have issues with acting like Powell is just freelancing here. She and Giuliani are doing Trump’s bidding, so this isn’t just Powell’s deranged theory—it’s the sitting president’s theory, too. We can all laugh or shake our head as Rudy Giuliani spews nonsense to the point where someone would be forgiven for thinking his leaking hair dye was literally nonsense seeping out of his head. That doesn’t change what he’s trying to do.

So Tucker is right when he says, “What Powell was describing would amount to the single greatest crime in American history.” And he’s right that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

But he doesn’t close the circle. If our political system were sufficiently sclerotic and decadent that Powell’s con yielded the results she desires, it would be the greatest crime in American history, too. I don’t see the moral difference between stealing the election using cutting-edge Venezuelan algorithms and stealing the election by peddling deranged nonsense about Venezuelan algorithms.

I understand that everyone is tired of being angry. But this whole spectacle is infuriating. At least some of the people pushing Trump’s effort have to know it’s a colossal fraud, but they’re just doing it anyway. They are trying to pull off monumental election fraud by claiming that Democrats—and the Venezuelans, Cubans, and perhaps the Lizard People (but not the Lizard People you’re thinking of)—are guilty of monumental election fraud.

And spare me the anti-anti-Trump bloviating about how Trump’s scheme, however “overstated” or “problematic,” is still valuable because it’s shining a light on the very real issue of election fraud. This is like forgiving an attempted bank robbery because it exposed the flaws in bank security.

I don’t like “lying for justice” arguments from the left or the right. I don’t give a rat’s ass that Trump’s failing effort to steal an election or his already successful effort to delegitimize an election and a duly elected president is “raising awareness” or “shining a light on important issues.” And, as I strongly suspect, neither do the people hiding behind this irrelevant rhetoric.

The GOP’s cowardice.

I know I’m a broken record about how the weakness of our political parties is poisoning our politics. But look, political parties are supposed to be patriotic institutions. Unlike the Boy Scouts or Major League Baseball, however, they have a deep interest in protecting the sanctity of our electoral system. Their interest in preserving the legitimacy of our political system is total, in the same way the New York Yankees’ interest in the health of baseball is total. And yet, the RNC hosted that hate crime against democratic legitimacy yesterday. The GOP’s social media account spewed soundbites from Powell and Giuliani out into the country like a firehose attached to a sewage tank.

A serious party that cared about its long-term credibility, never mind the long-term credibility of our political system, would walk away from this burning septic tank en masse. Instead it spends its days lobbing Molotov cocktails of flaming B.S. from its windows.

And I don’t care if “the Republican base” believes this bilge or wants to believe it. The party has a higher obligation to the country, to future Republicans, and—as quaint as it sounds—to its principles than to a lame duck president.

None of these hacks are getting Wales out of this, and it wouldn’t be worth it if they were.

While we're at it, spare me the hosannas for the newfound courage of people like Joni Ernst. When the Trump campaign was merely claiming that the presidency was stolen, she stayed quiet. It was only when Powell claimed that other Republican politicians stole their races, too, that she suddenly took offense.

As for the conservative “leaders” who think it’s their job to tell their readers, viewers, and listeners what they want to hear rather than what they need to hear for the good of the country, my contempt is total. In a system with weak parties, it is incumbent on the ideological allies of the party to explain to the rank-and-file what is true and right. Pandering to them is not only wrong, it’s dangerous. The whole point of the conservative movement is to protect and preserve the legitimacy of the constitutional order and the blessings of liberty such an order was intended to secure. Indulging feelings—no matter how sincerely felt—when they don’t align with the actual facts undermines that project.

What if they won?

Which brings me to my final complaint and what really stews my bowels. What’s the end game? Again, I doubt Trump or his criminal accomplices actually believe they’ll succeed. But that’s very different from saying they don’t hold out hope that they still might pull off this caper. What if they did? What if instead of being the incompetent bungling demagogue we know Trump to be, he actually managed to bribe, blackmail, or otherwise cajole enough of the legislators, judges, justices, electors, and various officials required to hand him the presidency despite losing both the electoral college and the popular vote?

What would the country look like in Trump’s purloined second term?

Look, I think “What if this were Obama?” is one of the lowest forms of punditry. But if Barack Obama tried something like this, after losing fair and square to Mitt Romney, we’d be hearing lots of conservatives talking about “Second Amendment remedies.” And as loath as I am to hint, even for rhetorical purposes, that violence is justified, they’d have a point.

If Obama actually succeeded in stealing the election in 2012, there would be riots. There would very likely be open rebellion in the military. And when the dust settled, Congress would likely vote to impeach and remove him (or at least I hope it would). What is your principled argument for why it should be any different with Trump?

The likely scenario for how this all plays out is bad enough. But if Trump actually succeeded, it would wreck the country. But, yes, it’s true: He would own the libs. And apparently doing that is even better than getting to be Attorney General of Wales.“

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:12 pm
by Kismet
Today provides a fine rationale why the voters fired DOPUS

President Trump just skipped this G20 virtual meeting to play golf: a “coordinated response to the coronavirus pandemic and improved global pandemic preparedness.”


It remains to bee seen if he will virtually attend any other G20 meetings this weekend. He will likely be on the course tomorrow, too.

I remain mystified why none of this seems to bother any Trump supporters.

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:19 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
Kismet wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:12 pm Today provides a fine rationale why the voter fired DOPUS

President Trump just skipped this G20 virtual meeting to play golf: a “coordinated response to the coronavirus pandemic and improved global pandemic preparedness.”


It remains to bee seen if he will virtually attend any other G20 meetings this weekend. He will likely be on the course tomorrow, too.

I remain mystified why none of this seems to bother any Trump supporters.
Zombies

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:24 pm
by seacoaster
The U.S. just surpassed a record-shattering 156.5 million votes counted:

Biden 79,837,186 (51.0%)
Trump 73,801,178 (47.2%)

Meanwhile, the Trump Administration loathes America:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/21/us/p ... ition.html

“Voters have decided that President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. should guide the country through the next four years. But on issues of war, the environment, criminal justice, trade, the economy and more, President Trump and top administration officials are doing what they can to make changing direction more difficult.

Mr. Trump has spent the last two weeks hunkered down in the White House, raging about a “stolen” election and refusing to accept the reality of his loss. But in other ways he is acting as if he knows he will be departing soon, and showing none of the deference that presidents traditionally give their successors in their final days in office.

During the past four years Mr. Trump has not spent much time thinking about policy, but he has shown a penchant for striking back at his adversaries. And with his encouragement, top officials are racing against the clock to withdraw troops from Afghanistan, secure oil drilling leases in Alaska, punish China, carry out executions and thwart any plans Mr. Biden might have to reestablish the Iran nuclear deal.

In some cases, like the executions and the oil leases, Mr. Trump’s government plans to act just days — or even hours — before Mr. Biden is inaugurated on Jan. 20.

At a wide range of departments and agencies, Mr. Trump’s political appointees are going to extraordinary lengths to try to prevent Mr. Biden from rolling back the president’s legacy. They are filling vacancies on scientific panels, pushing to complete rules that weaken environmental standards, nominating judges and rushing their confirmations through the Senate, and trying to eliminate health care regulations that have been in place for years.

In the latest instance, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin declined to extend key emergency lending programs that the Federal Reserve had been using to help keep credit flowing to businesses, state and local governments and other parts of the financial system. He also moved to claw back much of the money that supports them, hindering Mr. Biden’s ability to use the central bank’s vast powers to cushion the economic fallout from the virus.

Terry Sullivan, a professor of political science and the executive director of the White House Transition Project, a nonpartisan group which has studied presidential transitions for decades, said Mr. Trump was not behaving like past presidents who cared about how their final days in office shaped their legacy.

“They are upping tension in Iran, which could lead to a confrontation. The economy is tanking and they are not doing anything about unemployment benefits,” he said.

It is one final norm shattered by Mr. Trump — and a stark contrast to the last Republican president who handed over power to a Democrat.
Former president George W. Bush consciously left it to his successor, Barack Obama, to decide how to rescue the auto industry and whether to approve Afghan troop increases. And when Congress demanded negotiations over the bank bailouts, Mr. Bush stepped aside and let Mr. Obama cut a deal with lawmakers even before he was inaugurated.

Aides to Mr. Bush said the outgoing president wanted to leave Mr. Obama with a range of policy options as he began his presidency, a mind-set clearly reflected in a 2008 email about negotiations over the status of American forces in Iraq from Joshua Bolten, Mr. Bush’s chief of staff at the time, to John D. Podesta, who ran Mr. Obama’s transition, just a week after the election.

“We believe we have negotiated an agreement that provides President-Elect Obama the authorities and protections he needs to exercise the full prerogatives as commander in chief,” Mr. Bolten wrote to Mr. Podesta on November 11, 2008, in an email later made public by WikiLeaks. “We would like to offer, at your earliest convenience, a full briefing to you and your staff.”

That has not been Mr. Trump’s approach.

The president has continued to deny Mr. Biden briefings and access to agency officials — delays that the president-elect has said threatened to undermine the country’s response to the pandemic. And far from seeking to help Mr. Biden’s team, Mr. Trump has spent more than two weeks actively seeking to undermine the legitimacy of his victory.

Mr. Biden and his top aides have not publicly criticized the president’s policy actions at home or abroad, abiding by the tradition that there is only one president at a time. But the president-elect has vowed to move quickly to undo many of Mr. Trump’s domestic and foreign policies.

That will most likely start with a blitz of executive actions in his first days in office, as well as an aggressive legislative agenda during his first year.”

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:04 pm
by CU77
seacoaster wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:53 pm Nice vent about the Chief POS:

https://gfile.thedispatch.com/p/this-wa ... s-the-plan
Jonah Goldberg. Well said, and I agree 1000%.

Re the Wales reference: recently watched "A Man for All Seasons". Highly recommended.

But actually Wales is pretty nice. I want to go see the castle where the Ozymandias scenes in Watchmen were filmed. And also Portmeiron, where The Prisoner (the 60s TV original, not the awful AMC reimagination of the few years back, even if it did have Ian McKellan as #2) was filmed.

Be seeing you.

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:06 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
CU77 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:04 pm
seacoaster wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:53 pm Nice vent about the Chief POS:

https://gfile.thedispatch.com/p/this-wa ... s-the-plan
Jonah Goldberg. Well said, and I agree 1000%.

Re the Wales reference: recently watched "A Man for All Seasons". Highly recommended.

But actually Wales is pretty nice. I want to go see the castle where the Ozymandias scenes in Watchmen were filmed. And also Portmeiron, where The Prisoner (the 60s TV original, not the awful AMC reimagination of the few years back, even if it did have Ian McKellan as #2) was filmed.

Be seeing you.
My daughter was there this time last year. She really liked it. Seems like an eternity ago.

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:45 pm
by seacoaster
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:06 pm
CU77 wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:04 pm
seacoaster wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:53 pm Nice vent about the Chief POS:

https://gfile.thedispatch.com/p/this-wa ... s-the-plan
Jonah Goldberg. Well said, and I agree 1000%.

Re the Wales reference: recently watched "A Man for All Seasons". Highly recommended.

But actually Wales is pretty nice. I want to go see the castle where the Ozymandias scenes in Watchmen were filmed. And also Portmeiron, where The Prisoner (the 60s TV original, not the awful AMC reimagination of the few years back, even if it did have Ian McKellan as #2) was filmed.

Be seeing you.
My daughter was there this time last year. She really liked it. Seems like an eternity ago.
Drove around Wales thirty years ago rock climbing and drinking real ale. It was one of the best trips of my life. Great country.

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:27 pm
by old salt
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:11 pm East St. Louis has undergone ups and downs. The issue was your claim that the only history I know is from video after I posted that one.....(I posted that video as an example of a “race war”...a little different from what we saw this summer)....I was just pointing out that history is also passed down word of mouth. No criticism of the history of E. St. Louis. No different from history in lots of places. Most people’s knowledge of history is what they were taught from a book. Thats is usually just a fragment of history was my point. You have fond memories of that place....like many people. You also have fond memories of my home town.
What we saw this summer reminded me a lot of the late '60's....not the pleasant memories part.

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:29 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:27 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:11 pm East St. Louis has undergone ups and downs. The issue was your claim that the only history I know is from video after I posted that one.....(I posted that video as an example of a “race war”...a little different from what we saw this summer)....I was just pointing out that history is also passed down word of mouth. No criticism of the history of E. St. Louis. No different from history in lots of places. Most people’s knowledge of history is what they were taught from a book. Thats is usually just a fragment of history was my point. You have fond memories of that place....like many people. You also have fond memories of my home town.
What we saw this summer reminded me a lot of the late '60's....not the pleasant memories part.
I am not even sure those could be called “race wars”....but not surprised that would be your take. Civil unrest seems more appropriate but it is an opinion. This past summer looked liked streets of many third world countries when we see reports of dissidents....

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:52 pm
by old salt
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:29 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:27 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:11 pm East St. Louis has undergone ups and downs. The issue was your claim that the only history I know is from video after I posted that one.....(I posted that video as an example of a “race war”...a little different from what we saw this summer)....I was just pointing out that history is also passed down word of mouth. No criticism of the history of E. St. Louis. No different from history in lots of places. Most people’s knowledge of history is what they were taught from a book. Thats is usually just a fragment of history was my point. You have fond memories of that place....like many people. You also have fond memories of my home town.
What we saw this summer reminded me a lot of the late '60's....not the pleasant memories part.
I am not even sure those could be called “race wars”....but not surprised that would be your take. Civil unrest seems more appropriate but it is an opinion. This past summer looked liked streets of many third world countries when we see reports of dissidents....
I remember seeing smoke from both DC & Baltimore on the horizon.
Mids fearing for the safety of their girlfriends. It sure felt like war.
All we had were parade rifles without firing pins.
Rumor was -- we'd don leggings, fix bayonets & man the walls.

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:57 pm
by DMac
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:27 pm What we saw this summer reminded me a lot of the late '60's....not the pleasant memories part.
Sure did. I thought a lot of progress had been made as a result of those days, but silly me, I guess.
That's not to say no progress has been made though.

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:01 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:52 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:29 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:27 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:11 pm East St. Louis has undergone ups and downs. The issue was your claim that the only history I know is from video after I posted that one.....(I posted that video as an example of a “race war”...a little different from what we saw this summer)....I was just pointing out that history is also passed down word of mouth. No criticism of the history of E. St. Louis. No different from history in lots of places. Most people’s knowledge of history is what they were taught from a book. Thats is usually just a fragment of history was my point. You have fond memories of that place....like many people. You also have fond memories of my home town.
What we saw this summer reminded me a lot of the late '60's....not the pleasant memories part.
I am not even sure those could be called “race wars”....but not surprised that would be your take. Civil unrest seems more appropriate but it is an opinion. This past summer looked liked streets of many third world countries when we see reports of dissidents....
I remember seeing smoke from both DC & Baltimore on the horizon.
Mids fearing for the safety of their girlfriends. It sure felt like war.
All we had were parade rifles without firing pins.
Rumor was -- we'd don leggings, fix bayonets & man the walls.
A couple of friends told me they had their servants’ families stay with them during those days.

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:11 pm
by seacoaster
Trump PA Case Dismissed: "this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations... this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state."

"Plaintiffs seek to remedy denial of their votes by invalidating the votes of millions of others. Rather than requesting that their votes be counted, they seek to discredit scores of other votes, but only for one race. This is simply not how the Constitution works.”

Kraken? Rudy’s crackin’

https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-cont ... ng-MTD.pdf

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:28 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
seacoaster wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:11 pm Trump PA Case Dismissed: "this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations... this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state."

"Plaintiffs seek to remedy denial of their votes by invalidating the votes of millions of others. Rather than requesting that their votes be counted, they seek to discredit scores of other votes, but only for one race. This is simply not how the Constitution works.”

Kraken? Rudy’s crackin’

https://www.democracydocket.com/wp-cont ... ng-MTD.pdf
In 2016, Rudy claimed voter fraud because a bus that would drop off voters always had the same license plate.

Re: 2020 Elections - Donald Trump FIRED

Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:31 pm
by old salt
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:01 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:52 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:29 pm
old salt wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:27 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:11 pm East St. Louis has undergone ups and downs. The issue was your claim that the only history I know is from video after I posted that one.....(I posted that video as an example of a “race war”...a little different from what we saw this summer)....I was just pointing out that history is also passed down word of mouth. No criticism of the history of E. St. Louis. No different from history in lots of places. Most people’s knowledge of history is what they were taught from a book. Thats is usually just a fragment of history was my point. You have fond memories of that place....like many people. You also have fond memories of my home town.
What we saw this summer reminded me a lot of the late '60's....not the pleasant memories part.
I am not even sure those could be called “race wars”....but not surprised that would be your take. Civil unrest seems more appropriate but it is an opinion. This past summer looked liked streets of many third world countries when we see reports of dissidents....
I remember seeing smoke from both DC & Baltimore on the horizon.
Mids fearing for the safety of their girlfriends. It sure felt like war.
All we had were parade rifles without firing pins.
Rumor was -- we'd don leggings, fix bayonets & man the walls.
A couple of friends told me they had their servants’ families stay with them during those days.
Here's why 1968 felt like war {from wiki} :

Baltimore : When violent protest broke out in Baltimore on April 6, nearly the entire Maryland National Guard, both Army and Air, were called up to deal with the unrest. The notable exceptions were the state's air defense units (which manned surface-to-air missile sites around the state), those units already on duty in the Washington, DC area, and a unit positioned in Cambridge, Maryland (the site of race riots in 1963 and 1967). The Adjutant General of Maryland, Major General George M. Gelston, commanded the National Guard force and also was given control of local and state police forces in the city (approximately 1,900 police officers).

The combined National Guard and police force proved unable to contain the uprising and on Sunday, April 7, federal troops were requested. Late that evening, elements of the XVIII Airborne Corps at Fort Bragg, North Carolina began arriving on the scene, while several Marine units from Camp Lejeune were put on standby status. With the intervention of federal forces, the Maryland National Guard was called into federal duty, resulting in a shift from state control (reporting to the Governor of Maryland) to federal control (reporting through the Army chain of command to the President). The federal force, Task Force Baltimore, was organized into three brigades and a reserve. These were (roughly), the XVIII Airborne Corps troops, the Maryland National Guard, and troops from the 197th Infantry Brigade from Fort Benning, Georgia (which arrived two days later). The 1,300 troops of the Maryland Air National Guard were organized in a provisional battalion and used to guard critical infrastructure throughout the city, as well as an ad hoc detention facility at the Baltimore Civic Center. Task Force Baltimore peaked at 11,570 Army and National Guard troops on April 9, of which all but about 500 were committed to riot control duties.

Unrest continued for several days as the Task Force sought to reassert control. Early on April 12, federal troops began to depart and by 6 pm that evening responsibility for riot control returned to the National Guard. At midnight Task Force Baltimore ceased to exist and the remainder of federal troops were withdrawn. Maryland National Guard troops remained on duty in the city until April 14, when Maryland Governor Spiro Agnew declared the emergency over and sent them home.

After action reports credited both the National Guard and active Army forces for being extremely disciplined and restrained in dealing with the disturbance, with only four shots fired by National Guard troops and two by active Army troops. These forces had received orders to avoid firing their weapons, as part of an intentional strategy to decrease fatalities.

A total of 10,956 troops had been deployed.


DC : On Friday, April 5, President Johnson dispatched 11,850 federal troops and 1,750 D.C. Army National Guardsmen to assist the overwhelmed D.C. police force. Marines mounted machine guns on the steps of the Capitol and Army soldiers from the 3rd Infantry Regiment guarded the White House. The 2nd Brigade Combat Team of the 82nd Airborne Division from Fort Bragg, North Carolina and 6th Cavalry Regiment from Fort Meade, Maryland were among the principal federal forces sent to the city. At one point, on April 5, rioting reached within two blocks of the White House before rioters retreated. The occupation of Washington was the largest of any American city since the Civil War.

Federal troops and National Guardsmen imposed a strict curfew, worked riot control, patrolled the streets, guarded looted stores, and provided aid to those who were displaced by the rioting. They continued to remain after the rioting had officially ceased to protect against a second riot and further damage.

By Sunday, April 8, when the city was considered pacified, 13 people had been killed in fires, by police officers, or by rioters. An additional 1,097 people were injured and over 7,600 people were arrested


Recalling 1968, I did not consider it unreasonable last summer for Trump to deploy the DC National Guard & stage active duty troops nearby (which were not deployed).