Recruiting

[ultravisitor]

We told the coach that she was going to go on a few of the visits but since they were one of her top choices we would like to take the next step.

Here's the problem: sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it, too. How fair is it to the coaches and other potential recruits for you to expect the coach to hold anything for you while you're going and exploring other options? If you're telling the coach that you're going to explore other options, then you're basically telling them that they're not much of a high priority for you. You're telling them that you're going to keep looking to see if there's something better than them.

While you may be right on what happened, doesn’t make the process right? It should be a two way street. So the coach can “have his/her cake and eat it too”, but a kid isn’t allowed to do the same. A coach ( and we know it is most if not all coaches) can leave a kid in limbo and ghost them after calling them or say right now you are our number 3 middie and we have an offer out, but a kid shouldn’t be allowed to do the same. Once again, if the coach was going to make an offer, just make the offer. What does it matter if sue is looking at other schools, they are looking at other players? It’s that simple. Make the offer, Give a time line and move on. What that kid did is no different than what the coaches do. It just seems like the kids coach/father got mad when the team moved on.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. I think we're on the same side. It does sound like the coach was ready to make an offer. After all, I can't imagine a coach asking a player if they thought they needed to go on their other visits if the next step wasn't to make an offer. Would a coach really ask that and then, if the player said "No, I don't think I need to go on my other visits," turn around and say "Oh, well you really should visit those other schools"?

If one side expresses interest and the other wants to continue shopping around, then I think it's only fair for the other side to continue shopping around, as well.

[Relax77]

We told the coach that she was going to go on a few of the visits but since they were one of her top choices we would like to take the next step.

Here's the problem: sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it, too. How fair is it to the coaches and other potential recruits for you to expect the coach to hold anything for you while you're going and exploring other options? If you're telling the coach that you're going to explore other options, then you're basically telling them that they're not much of a high priority for you. You're telling them that you're going to keep looking to see if there's something better than them.

While you may be right on what happened, doesn’t make the process right? It should be a two way street. So the coach can “have his/her cake and eat it too”, but a kid isn’t allowed to do the same. A coach ( and we know it is most if not all coaches) can leave a kid in limbo and ghost them after calling them or say right now you are our number 3 middie and we have an offer out, but a kid shouldn’t be allowed to do the same. Once again, if the coach was going to make an offer, just make the offer. What does it matter if sue is looking at other schools, they are looking at other players? It’s that simple. Make the offer, Give a time line and move on. What that kid did is no different than what the coaches do. It just seems like the kids coach/father got mad when the team moved on.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. I think we're on the same side. It does sound like the coach was ready to make an offer. After all, I can't imagine a coach asking a player if they thought they needed to go on their other visits if the next step wasn't to make an offer. Would a coach really ask that and then, if the player said "No, I don't think I need to go on my other visits," turn around and say "Oh, well you really should visit those other schools"?

If one side expresses interest and the other wants to continue shopping around, then I think it's only fair for the other side to continue shopping around, as well.

Absolutely. This situation was a little weird I’m sure there’s three sides to this story like every other one.

[hmmm]

We told the coach that she was going to go on a few of the visits but since they were one of her top choices we would like to take the next step.

Here's the problem: sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it, too. How fair is it to the coaches and other potential recruits for you to expect the coach to hold anything for you while you're going and exploring other options? If you're telling the coach that you're going to explore other options, then you're basically telling them that they're not much of a high priority for you. You're telling them that you're going to keep looking to see if there's something better than them.

While you may be right on what happened, doesn’t make the process right? It should be a two way street. So the coach can “have his/her cake and eat it too”, but a kid isn’t allowed to do the same. A coach ( and we know it is most if not all coaches) can leave a kid in limbo and ghost them after calling them or say right now you are our number 3 middie and we have an offer out, but a kid shouldn’t be allowed to do the same. Once again, if the coach was going to make an offer, just make the offer. What does it matter if sue is looking at other schools, they are looking at other players? It’s that simple. Make the offer, Give a time line and move on. What that kid did is no different than what the coaches do. It just seems like the kids coach/father got mad when the team moved on.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. I think we're on the same side. It does sound like the coach was ready to make an offer. After all, I can't imagine a coach asking a player if they thought they needed to go on their other visits if the next step wasn't to make an offer. Would a coach really ask that and then, if the player said "No, I don't think I need to go on my other visits," turn around and say "Oh, well you really should visit those other schools"?

If one side expresses interest and the other wants to continue shopping around, then I think it's only fair for the other side to continue shopping around, as well.

Absolutely. This situation was a little weird I’m sure there’s three sides to this story like every other one.

Has Brownlax responded to all this? I read their post to be that they told the coach that while they were planning to take other visits, since this coach wanted to move forward they were willing to forgo the other visits and go on to the next steps with the coach in question. I could be wrong.

[Relax77]

We told the coach that she was going to go on a few of the visits but since they were one of her top choices we would like to take the next step.

Here's the problem: sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it, too. How fair is it to the coaches and other potential recruits for you to expect the coach to hold anything for you while you're going and exploring other options? If you're telling the coach that you're going to explore other options, then you're basically telling them that they're not much of a high priority for you. You're telling them that you're going to keep looking to see if there's something better than them.

While you may be right on what happened, doesn’t make the process right? It should be a two way street. So the coach can “have his/her cake and eat it too”, but a kid isn’t allowed to do the same. A coach ( and we know it is most if not all coaches) can leave a kid in limbo and ghost them after calling them or say right now you are our number 3 middie and we have an offer out, but a kid shouldn’t be allowed to do the same. Once again, if the coach was going to make an offer, just make the offer. What does it matter if sue is looking at other schools, they are looking at other players? It’s that simple. Make the offer, Give a time line and move on. What that kid did is no different than what the coaches do. It just seems like the kids coach/father got mad when the team moved on.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. I think we're on the same side. It does sound like the coach was ready to make an offer. After all, I can't imagine a coach asking a player if they thought they needed to go on their other visits if the next step wasn't to make an offer. Would a coach really ask that and then, if the player said "No, I don't think I need to go on my other visits," turn around and say "Oh, well you really should visit those other schools"?

If one side expresses interest and the other wants to continue shopping around, then I think it's only fair for the other side to continue shopping around, as well.

Absolutely. This situation was a little weird I’m sure there’s three sides to this story like every other one.

Has Brownlax responded to all this? I read their post to be that they told the coach that while they were planning to take other visits, since this coach wanted to move forward they were willing to forgo the other visits and go on to the next steps with the coach in question. I could be wrong.

Honestly surprised he didn’t delete it yet. If he really is a coach, no way they would want that up on the forum. If on the rare chance the college coach or one of their assistants are insane enough to read lax forums, they would know exactly what coach and team would have posted that. And judging by the story, the coach is a little petty to begin with.

[kramerica.inc]

Came across this article today, interesting on the topic of recruiting in non hotbed areas. Is that really necessary for girls to have to fly cross country to Maryland to be part of the scene? Seems like a lot but we are new to this. Wondering if girls who aren’t in the northeast really have to do all this:

https://www.toddburnham.com/lacrosse-br ... -colorado/

T
So many thoughts about this story..

1) Some girls from out of state often play on top teams in Maryland and Long Island. In fact, one Long Island team actively recruits the best players from the midwest

2) HOWEVER, Doing this as a 6th and 7th grader is insane. M&D's roster will turn over many times before recruiting starts. I've never heard of this happening at middle school unless there was already a connection with the club. e.g. The best 2028 in the country plays for Yellow Jackets, but her older sister played there before going to Maryland. Also, she doesn't fly to LI to practice.

3) Most importantly, Colorado is turning into a hotbed. They have one of the best club teams in the Country -- Team 180 is one of the top club teams in the country and routinely sends almost its entire team D1 every level and last year had 2 of the top 8 or 9 players in the country; Urban Elite which is a top 20 club at the 2029 age level, and 3D Colorado which won mid-atlantic for the 28 age group last summer.

This is likely an issue of parents trying to live out some dream, rather than being doing for pure lax development.

If the dad has the money as a lawyer to fly his kids to MD twice a month to practice, then good on him. It's not necessary at all, as just being a member of M&D Black will eventually get a ton of eyes on them for recruiting purposes. Also, there are good training opportunities in Colorado as people have moved out west.

I don't think there is anything magical about an M&D practice--most of the parents seem to think that isn't where their kids make real progress and I would tend to agree. Sometimes the best bang for the buck is working on physical abilities rather than flying them to MD for practices. I think there is some value to attending skills specific training from some groups, but I don't know that it requires 24 trips in a year.

Colorado is now recognized as an area with clubs good enough to draw in solid athletes, training them well enough to perform against some of the best competition, then giving them the experience of playing against those teams. Most teams composed of solid athletes seen great improvement in skills when they play out east for most of the fall and summer.

Parents are dumb for doing it. Clubs are dumber for allowing it on a local team.

If your club wants to do that, designate a national team.

Take it with a grain of salt. And there is definitely some bat crazy mojo coming off that writeup ...

[NutmegCrunch]

Came across this article today, interesting on the topic of recruiting in non hotbed areas. Is that really necessary for girls to have to fly cross country to Maryland to be part of the scene? Seems like a lot but we are new to this. Wondering if girls who aren’t in the northeast really have to do all this:

https://www.toddburnham.com/lacrosse-br ... -colorado/

We're a Northeast/New England family so most of the travel for lacrosse is pretty reasonable - but I have to be honest, I think spending that kind of money and time to bring a 6th and 7th grader from CO to MD to practice is insane. They live in Colorado, not Guam, and there are some very strong clubs and excellent training closer to home as former players and coaches have migrated out of the traditional hotbeds - that area is definitely becoming a new "hot spot". I suspect a big part of this arrangement is so Daddy can brag about his kids playing for M&D.

My kids play for a decent club program and while the coaching is outstanding (IMO) and they do learn from team practices, many of the overall gains that we saw/are seeing in the middle school years were driven by effort that they put in largely on their own - wall ball and other stick skills, goalie-specific coaching and training, speed and agility work.

Dude has to be spending tens of thousands of dollars a year or the equivalent in FF miles/travel points to bring MIDDLE SCHOOLERS to lacrosse practice every other weekend. For that kind of investment of time and money they could have very good local coaching/training that would likely improve their skills and playing ability even more.

As the mom of a middle school girl, I can't help but wonder about the social impact of being away every other weekend - doing homework on a plane or in a noisy airport, having to miss school dances and friends' birthday parties because they're halfway across the continent. Again, it's not like they HAVE to do this for the kids to potentially develop into top recruits, and let's be honest - in middle school those girls don't know for sure if that's even what they really want. It seems like a recipe for potential burnout by the time they even reach prime time for recruiting.

[DMac]

kramerica.inc
And there is definitely some bat crazy mojo coming off that writeup ...

Completely agree with this. ^^^^

Outstanding post, Nutmeg. You mean old school wall ball still works? Going to a field and shooting at the cage, bringing a friend/partner/teammate (tip for ya, a German Shepherd is the best training partner you'll ever find) to work/play with
still works? That post wreaks of elitism (you can bet this is more about Daddy than it is about daughter), does wonders to perpetuate the perception of wlax being a rich white girl's game. Absolute absurdity, Daddy needs a lesson in priorities.

[MolonLaxe]

kramerica.inc
And there is definitely some bat crazy mojo coming off that writeup ...

Completely agree with this. ^^^^

Outstanding post, Nutmeg. You mean old school wall ball still works? Going to a field and shooting at the cage, bringing a friend/partner/teammate (tip for ya, a German Shepherd is the best training partner you'll ever find) to work/play with
still works? That post wreaks of elitism (you can bet this is more about Daddy than it is about daughter), does wonders to perpetuate the perception of wlax being a rich white girl's game. Absolute absurdity, Daddy needs a lesson in priorities.

Fair points. The one area I will disagree with is the overall value of wall ball. While it helps with working on hand-eye coordination and catching in general, it doesn't do a great job of mimicking real world passing and catching, which requires multiple people and some good drills/games to make to improve skills. Much could be improved if we just had girls playing pick-up games and getting creative out there.

[LaxDadMax]

Came across this article today, interesting on the topic of recruiting in non hotbed areas. Is that really necessary for girls to have to fly cross country to Maryland to be part of the scene? Seems like a lot but we are new to this. Wondering if girls who aren’t in the northeast really have to do all this:

https://www.toddburnham.com/lacrosse-br ... -colorado/

We're a Northeast/New England family so most of the travel for lacrosse is pretty reasonable - but I have to be honest, I think spending that kind of money and time to bring a 6th and 7th grader from CO to MD to practice is insane. They live in Colorado, not Guam, and there are some very strong clubs and excellent training closer to home as former players and coaches have migrated out of the traditional hotbeds - that area is definitely becoming a new "hot spot". I suspect a big part of this arrangement is so Daddy can brag about his kids playing for M&D.

My kids play for a decent club program and while the coaching is outstanding (IMO) and they do learn from team practices, many of the overall gains that we saw/are seeing in the middle school years were driven by effort that they put in largely on their own - wall ball and other stick skills, goalie-specific coaching and training, speed and agility work.

Dude has to be spending tens of thousands of dollars a year or the equivalent in FF miles/travel points to bring MIDDLE SCHOOLERS to lacrosse practice every other weekend. For that kind of investment of time and money they could have very good local coaching/training that would likely improve their skills and playing ability even more.

As the mom of a middle school girl, I can't help but wonder about the social impact of being away every other weekend - doing homework on a plane or in a noisy airport, having to miss school dances and friends' birthday parties because they're halfway across the continent. Again, it's not like they HAVE to do this for the kids to potentially develop into top recruits, and let's be honest - in middle school those girls don't know for sure if that's even what they really want. It seems like a recipe for potential burnout by the time they even reach prime time for recruiting.

Agree completely

Forgot about the cost. The potential mental health aspect of this is probably the bigger issue. What's the impact of not hanging out with friends or having close relationships with club teammates (probably the best part of all 4 of my girls lax club experience)?

Also, between 6th grade and 9th grade about 70-80% of the girls on M&D Black will be cut or demoted to the red team. That's just the reality of a top 5 lax club who are always bringing in new better players.

Where will this leave these girls? My guess is top Colorado clubs won't be welcoming them back with open arms after they left since Colorado lacrosse because it wasn't challenging enough.

[DMac]

kramerica.inc
And there is definitely some bat crazy mojo coming off that writeup ...

Completely agree with this. ^^^^

Outstanding post, Nutmeg. You mean old school wall ball still works? Going to a field and shooting at the cage, bringing a friend/partner/teammate (tip for ya, a German Shepherd is the best training partner you'll ever find) to work/play with
still works? That post wreaks of elitism (you can bet this is more about Daddy than it is about daughter), does wonders to perpetuate the perception of wlax being a rich white girl's game. Absolute absurdity, Daddy needs a lesson in priorities.

Fair points. The one area I will disagree with is the overall value of wall ball. While it helps with working on hand-eye coordination and catching in general, it doesn't do a great job of mimicking real world passing and catching, which requires multiple people and some good drills/games to make to improve skills. Much could be improved if we just had girls playing pick-up games and getting creative out there.

You betchya with the bolded part there....innovation and creativity are a real big deal. Oh, and bring your GSD with ya, they're hell on wheels, very tough to beat.
Wall ball is fantastic for the wrists and quick catch and release. You also don't have to throw the ball straight on, throw it at an angle, run to get it, switch hands, throw it the other way, rinse and repeat. This is the kind of drill you get when your dad is a retired Army Command Sgt. Maj., don't do anything the easy way with those boys. Definitely not going to get the same kind of passing as you'll get going out and playing though.

[cltlax]

kramerica.inc
And there is definitely some bat crazy mojo coming off that writeup ...

Completely agree with this. ^^^^

Outstanding post, Nutmeg. You mean old school wall ball still works? Going to a field and shooting at the cage, bringing a friend/partner/teammate (tip for ya, a German Shepherd is the best training partner you'll ever find) to work/play with
still works? That post wreaks of elitism (you can bet this is more about Daddy than it is about daughter), does wonders to perpetuate the perception of wlax being a rich white girl's game. Absolute absurdity, Daddy needs a lesson in priorities.

Fair points. The one area I will disagree with is the overall value of wall ball. While it helps with working on hand-eye coordination and catching in general, it doesn't do a great job of mimicking real world passing and catching, which requires multiple people and some good drills/games to make to improve skills. Much could be improved if we just had girls playing pick-up games and getting creative out there.

You betchya with the bolded part there....innovation and creativity are a real big deal. Oh, and bring your GSD with ya, they're hell on wheels, very tough to beat.
Wall ball is fantastic for the wrists and quick catch and release. You also don't have to throw the ball straight on, throw it at an angle, run to get it, switch hands, throw it the other way, rinse and repeat. This is the kind of drill you get when your dad is a retired Army Command Sgt. Maj., don't do anything the easy way with those boys. Definitely not going to get the same kind of passing as you'll get going out and playing though.

My girls have always found that throwing with Dad really helped them with their ability to catch bad passes...

[Deacon022]

kramerica.inc
And there is definitely some bat crazy mojo coming off that writeup ...

Completely agree with this. ^^^^

Outstanding post, Nutmeg. You mean old school wall ball still works? Going to a field and shooting at the cage, bringing a friend/partner/teammate (tip for ya, a German Shepherd is the best training partner you'll ever find) to work/play with
still works? That post wreaks of elitism (you can bet this is more about Daddy than it is about daughter), does wonders to perpetuate the perception of wlax being a rich white girl's game. Absolute absurdity, Daddy needs a lesson in priorities.

Fair points. The one area I will disagree with is the overall value of wall ball. While it helps with working on hand-eye coordination and catching in general, it doesn't do a great job of mimicking real world passing and catching, which requires multiple people and some good drills/games to make to improve skills. Much could be improved if we just had girls playing pick-up games and getting creative out there.

I disagree to an extent with this. Wall ball helps strengthen the kids off hand. So yes it doesn’t help with real game catching and throwing, it does give them confidence. The change in my daughters game was coming with me picking up her brother at football practice a half hour early her freshman year. She played wall ball five days a week that fall. She’s gotten some huge compliments from cosches asking it she is lefty or righty during this recruiting year. The coach that committed her got it wrong. Thought she was a lefty. You can 100% watch a club game and see which ones play wall ball the way they use their off hand. But you may be right. Because there’s some girls ranked in the top ten that wasn’t strong off hand. Didn’t hurt them.

[DMac]

When I first got a stick on the way home from watching a Hobart lacrosse game (that was the first time I had seen lacrosse, didn't know what I was going to see on the way there but I was instantly hooked on it when I saw it) the wall was my absolute best friend. Pretty sure I was the first guy in town to have a stick so I had no one to play with (my father played a little at Cortland so he could teach me how to pass and catch...he was a fantastic athlete). I got pretty good with that stick just playing wall ball and I learned how to hustle my asz off to get to a GB and not miss it competing with the GSD....he beat me there 99% of time and he didn't miss GBs (gotta bring two balls). Wall ball is good.

[GratefulRed]

My girls have always found that throwing with Dad really helped them with their ability to catch bad passes...

+1

[Womenslaxxfan]

Came across this article today, interesting on the topic of recruiting in non hotbed areas. Is that really necessary for girls to have to fly cross country to Maryland to be part of the scene? Seems like a lot but we are new to this. Wondering if girls who aren’t in the northeast really have to do all this:

https://www.toddburnham.com/lacrosse-br ... -colorado/

We're a Northeast/New England family so most of the travel for lacrosse is pretty reasonable - but I have to be honest, I think spending that kind of money and time to bring a 6th and 7th grader from CO to MD to practice is insane. They live in Colorado, not Guam, and there are some very strong clubs and excellent training closer to home as former players and coaches have migrated out of the traditional hotbeds - that area is definitely becoming a new "hot spot". I suspect a big part of this arrangement is so Daddy can brag about his kids playing for M&D.

My kids play for a decent club program and while the coaching is outstanding (IMO) and they do learn from team practices, many of the overall gains that we saw/are seeing in the middle school years were driven by effort that they put in largely on their own - wall ball and other stick skills, goalie-specific coaching and training, speed and agility work.

Dude has to be spending tens of thousands of dollars a year or the equivalent in FF miles/travel points to bring MIDDLE SCHOOLERS to lacrosse practice every other weekend. For that kind of investment of time and money they could have very good local coaching/training that would likely improve their skills and playing ability even more.

As the mom of a middle school girl, I can't help but wonder about the social impact of being away every other weekend - doing homework on a plane or in a noisy airport, having to miss school dances and friends' birthday parties because they're halfway across the continent. Again, it's not like they HAVE to do this for the kids to potentially develop into top recruits, and let's be honest - in middle school those girls don't know for sure if that's even what they really want. It seems like a recipe for potential burnout by the time they even reach prime time for recruiting.

Agree with nutmeg. Colorado, Texas, California, Minnesota, Illinois, Florida, Georgia. All of them have clubs that have great club coaches and opportunity to build skills and game Iq. Traveling from one of those areas to Maryland in middle school to practice is, in my opinion, a stunning lack of judgement by the parents.
In high school, I still think the of costs traveling to attend regular practices with an east coast team outweigh the benefits as the top clubs from each of those “non hotbed” states have produced plenty of highly regarded d1 talent—and college coaches know it and make sure to see the top clubs when they come east to tournaments.
I get making the trek east with your club team for tournaments in the summers before 9th and 10th and 11th grade. It’s how you get seen and you make sure you play against the best. Having your middle schooler actually commute for practices—for a sport whose goal is to play in college—is perhaps the definition of lack of perspective. For me at least…

[LaxGnome22]

Holy cow. USF just added another 2. They grab a few transfers next year and they may end up with 50 on their roster for 2025-26. Have to think a few of the 23s and 24s are gonna leave.

[laxdadpat]

IMHO here is the best investment you can make if your girl wants to be good at lacrosse.
First of all, it's mom/dad responsibility to make the girl know just going to club practices will only make her average depending on her athleticism.

Get a lacrosse net, some large objects to run around and most importantly at least 50 lacrosse balls. She has to be able to get shots in bunches before going to get them out of the net. Some type of rebounder is ok, but finding a big wall is so much better.

Don't think the club will make her great, that responsibility falls on you helping her to learn to train smart! Doing sprints, running hills and hard dodging are core requirements.

Sounds simple, but going out and doing it consistently is what makes great players. Lacrosse clubs assemble great players, they don't make them.

[watcherinthewoods]

"Don't think the club will make her great, that responsibility falls on you helping her to learn to train smart! Doing sprints, running hills and hard dodging are core requirements."

Ummm ... agree on the level of development that often happens at club lax, but the game of the lacrosse at the D1 level is a team game that goes far beyond dodging hard and ripping shots. Good coaches (the kind of coaches you want your daughter the play for in college) know this.

Aside from the pure athletes, who are few and far between and still need coaching to learn the game and reach their potential, most kids thrive when they have a coach who can teach them sound fundamentals and discipline. Seek this out and you are in a good place. Cones and a cage in the backyard can't replace fundamental lax IQ.

[watcherinthewoods]

"Don't think the club will make her great, that responsibility falls on you helping her to learn to train smart! Doing sprints, running hills and hard dodging are core requirements."

Ummm ... agree on the level of development that often happens at club lax, but the game of the lacrosse at the D1 level is a team game that goes far beyond dodging hard and ripping shots. Good coaches (the kind of coaches you want your daughter the play for in college) know this.

Aside from the pure athletes, who are few and far between and still need coaching to learn the game and reach their potential, most kids thrive when they have a coach who can teach them sound fundamentals and discipline. Seek this out and you are in a good place. Cones and a cage in the backyard can't replace fundamental lax IQ.

[laxdadpat]

Agree about developing a high lax IQ.

I'm not a fan of lacrosse 12 months a year until after high school.
Simply watching women's college lacrosse helps a ton. It's out there now.
Kids do not play sports in the neighborhood, so that is not an option anymore.
Playing basketball really makes good women lacrosse players, best place to learn how to play against and attack a zone defense. Girls really seem to embrace the team concept and passing.
There is no substitute for good coaching, but it's often hard to find. A good sports IQ translates to most team sports like lacrosse, soccer, basketball, hockey and field hockey. All high level sports are played above the neck, another way to say high lacrosse IQ.