Johns Hopkins 2022

[backerzone]

What happened to the 2020 goalie from Pittsburgh- was he on the team last year? There is no soph goalie listed on roster. If I recall he was one of 2 goalies in the 2020 class - the other I think decommitted after the early recruiting rule change.

[MDlaxfan76]

While we're on the topic of goalies, found it interesting Terry Foy basically said Webb was the best goalie at that practice. It's just one practice, but it's something. 51 is going to have to brush up on his Dragnet if the kid ends up starting. Also noticed he's keeping the #14 in the LB family after Williams.

I've got a lot of respect for Hawley for sticking around—after Uncle Dave was pink-slipped and then he was hurt last year he easily could have packed up his things and taken the first train to the Dome or Terpville but, for whatever reason, he stayed and I hope he finds a role. Kid had some nice moments on the faceoff wing in 2020 and that's one area it seems like we always could use some help with. Obviously the idea is for Fernandez to contribute there as well.

I'm hoping that Webb has a great career at Hop, whether he gets lots of PT or not. I know Jack and his family well, have known Jack since he was just 9, so am rooting for him on a personal level. But I don't think that's coloring my perspective. I'm not projecting him as the #1 in 2022, though if the ball bounces that way I'll certainly be smiling for him.

My comment was that Hop needs to have a solid 52+% tender to have an expectation of being a top 10 team. To clarify...for Hopkins.

The current roster doesn't have such proven performance...yet.

I’ve heard a few times this fall that Webb is the real deal and will be on the field sooner or later and much more likely sooner. Out of curiosity was he a PM or DP recruit. I’ve heard some differing opinions on that.

He was PM's. Petro recruited Demopolous who then flipped to Brown after the coaching change. Then Webb was brought in to replace him. I believe he committed in August of last year, a few months after PM started. He explained his rather unusual recruiting process at 17:16 on this podcast: https://laxgoalierat.com/jack-webb/

That's correct. Jack was actually on the Brown very short list, was hoping to get that nod (Hop already had their tender) but when Demopolous flipped, that re-opened the slot. Musical chairs, and frankly I think this was better for Jack.

Jack has tremendously quick hands and has been maturing nicely; if that continues he should be quite capable...The lack of a couple of full bore HS seasons may be a detriment to being ready for college ball (normally MIAA seasons are great prep) but on the other hand there shouldn't be the sort of burn-out that plagues some goalies who've been playing the position a long time. I really don't know how this will play out for Jack, but I'm confident that he and his family are thrilled for him to have this opportunity, simply to be at Hopkins. A dream opportunity, really. Single mom, four kids, Jack the eldest with triplet siblings, live in Charles Village. Regardless of PT, great opportunity.

[51percentcorn]

We should take any performance by Kirson at Ohio State in context
In his redshirt freshman season he started the final 7 games - which means all the BIG games - Save % of 48%
In his redshirt sophomore season was the starter for the season and compiled a 50% overall save percentage but here are his stats in the 5 BIG games:
- Rutgers 9 Saves 14 GA
- Penn State 7 Saves 13 GA
- Johns Hopkins 12 Saves 13 GA
- Maryland 9 Saves 10 GA
- Michigan 6 Saves 13 GA

43 Saves 63 GA - uhhh - that's 40% - sounds like a fairly familiar number

In his redshirt junir season -the lost COVID season - his save percentage rose to 58% but it was born on 2 insane games 18 saves against Boston U and 19 saves against Hofstra - he played near 50% for the other 5 games but he was not off the charts

Point being his 40% save perecentage from last year was really not the anomaly it first may appear

Can we get Webb a jersey with the number 714?

What happened to the 2020 goalie from Pittsburgh- was he on the team last year? There is no soph goalie listed on roster. If I recall he was one of 2 goalies in the 2020 class - the other I think decommitted after the early recruiting rule change.

It seems unseemly to get into any of the details but there was a lawsuit that was settled. You can google it. There was an off the field incident where the kid was dismissed from the school - overall Hopkins administration - not the athletic department

[DocBarrister]

2022 roster is up.

Lots of new numbers.

No objective person can look at that roster and claim that Hopkins lacks talent.

Blue Jays have a lot of talent and some good depth on their roster. For the first time in a while, that includes SSDM and offensive midfield. Even have some depth in goal, I think.

Good athletes, too. Good speed and size.

Blue Jays don’t have the most talent, speed, or size, but they are a solid top-tenish team.

IF the Blue Jays continue their progress from 2021 (admittedly a big “IF”), they could be a tough out for anyone on their schedule.

DocBarrister

Not to throw cold water, but Hop still doesn't have a tender with recent college saves stats remotely high enough to give solid comfort that they can be a top 10 team.

Until that changes to 52+%, probably not gonna happen.

Yes, Kirson did so back at Ohio State, but under 40% last year for Hop in 9 games prior to being injured.

We'll see.
Of course, it's a combination of the defense and the tending itself, but it's just not happened yet...

Versfeld's career Sv% was over 54% at Amherst and as you said Kirson led the Big Ten in Sv% just 2 years ago. So it's not like neither of those guys have a history of performing at that level. Is it just a coincidence you chose 52% as your baseline considering that was Logan's Sv% last season?

I couldn't figure out this question at first, then realized that by "Logan" you meant Maryland's tender...you probably assumed that I'm a UMD fan?...but my moniker doesn't have anything to do with UMD. I came up with that moniker maybe 15 yrs ago on LP, when my son was still in middle school in Baltimore. And I graduated from a local HS in '76....not very creative and probably confusing...

I'm much more of a Hop fan than UMD, grew up 'hopping' the fence to watch Hop games, backing up the goal as a little kid, 60's then early 70's. My dad was a UVA alum and had been the tender on their '52 NC team, so that was my primary rooting interest back then, but he grew up in the Geneva Apartments on St. Paul Street, so had also grown up watching the Hopkins teams and players of his youth. We watched a ton of games together at Homewood! And we both had/have a ton of friends who played/coached for Hop.

My comment about tenders was simply from the perspective of a son of an AA tender, an AA tender myself, and father of a recent all-Ivy tender. In the current era, sub 52% makes it tough to be highly competitive, sub 50% makes it really, really difficult. I'm sure the Hop coaches know this and would agree as to needing that level of performance. Note, these #'s are way lower than in my day, much less my dad's. Stick technology has made it much more challenging to read shots.

As long time participants on this thread know, I'd been highly critical of the former staff's predilection in ER including why this was so problematic with goalie selection. That was really, really obvious to me. I was less 'informed' as to how tenders were then being trained and managed, but the end result was a tough stretch over the last decade of the early Hop goalie recruits in ER not panning out at remotely the prior history of tenders at Hop.

I've assumed that the current staff may do better. Just didn't in '21.

My son and I will be at an upcoming scrimmage as his alma mater will be visiting so may have a better perspective on the Hop goalie crew than I've been able to get over the past couple of years....entirely out of town for '21, so just online. He has a far better eye than I do, so it'll be interesting to hear what he thinks. Of course, these are just scrimmages, so far from dispositive, but it may be interesting.

All joking aside, I know you come from a fairly prominent lacrosse family, so would be interested on hearing you and your son’s take on the Hopkins goalie crew.

I’m not sure ER can be blamed for most of the goalie issues. Not sure Petro’s coaching staff ever had a top-notch goalie coach (unlike Maryland, obviously). Quinn was one of the best goalies of all time, but not sure that made him a great coach (not saying he wasn’t a good coach). Recall Petro once attended a seminar on coaching goalies given by a former Princeton AA goalie. If he had a top goalie coach on his staff, would he have needed that seminar?

There’s also the issue of a defense that was a mess in Petro’s latter years. Thought Koesterer did a very nice job improving the defense last season.

But the 2020 Hopkins defense or the early 2021 defense? Not sure if even Mike Federico or Larry Quinn would have saved 50% behind that defense.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

2022 roster is up.

Lots of new numbers.

No objective person can look at that roster and claim that Hopkins lacks talent.

Blue Jays have a lot of talent and some good depth on their roster. For the first time in a while, that includes SSDM and offensive midfield. Even have some depth in goal, I think.

Good athletes, too. Good speed and size.

Blue Jays don’t have the most talent, speed, or size, but they are a solid top-tenish team.

IF the Blue Jays continue their progress from 2021 (admittedly a big “IF”), they could be a tough out for anyone on their schedule.

DocBarrister

Not to throw cold water, but Hop still doesn't have a tender with recent college saves stats remotely high enough to give solid comfort that they can be a top 10 team.

Until that changes to 52+%, probably not gonna happen.

Yes, Kirson did so back at Ohio State, but under 40% last year for Hop in 9 games prior to being injured.

We'll see.
Of course, it's a combination of the defense and the tending itself, but it's just not happened yet...

Versfeld's career Sv% was over 54% at Amherst and as you said Kirson led the Big Ten in Sv% just 2 years ago. So it's not like neither of those guys have a history of performing at that level. Is it just a coincidence you chose 52% as your baseline considering that was Logan's Sv% last season?

I couldn't figure out this question at first, then realized that by "Logan" you meant Maryland's tender...you probably assumed that I'm a UMD fan?...but my moniker doesn't have anything to do with UMD. I came up with that moniker maybe 15 yrs ago on LP, when my son was still in middle school in Baltimore. And I graduated from a local HS in '76....not very creative and probably confusing...

I'm much more of a Hop fan than UMD, grew up 'hopping' the fence to watch Hop games, backing up the goal as a little kid, 60's then early 70's. My dad was a UVA alum and had been the tender on their '52 NC team, so that was my primary rooting interest back then, but he grew up in the Geneva Apartments on St. Paul Street, so had also grown up watching the Hopkins teams and players of his youth. We watched a ton of games together at Homewood! And we both had/have a ton of friends who played/coached for Hop.

My comment about tenders was simply from the perspective of a son of an AA tender, an AA tender myself, and father of a recent all-Ivy tender. In the current era, sub 52% makes it tough to be highly competitive, sub 50% makes it really, really difficult. I'm sure the Hop coaches know this and would agree as to needing that level of performance. Note, these #'s are way lower than in my day, much less my dad's. Stick technology has made it much more challenging to read shots.

As long time participants on this thread know, I'd been highly critical of the former staff's predilection in ER including why this was so problematic with goalie selection. That was really, really obvious to me. I was less 'informed' as to how tenders were then being trained and managed, but the end result was a tough stretch over the last decade of the early Hop goalie recruits in ER not panning out at remotely the prior history of tenders at Hop.

I've assumed that the current staff may do better. Just didn't in '21.

My son and I will be at an upcoming scrimmage as his alma mater will be visiting so may have a better perspective on the Hop goalie crew than I've been able to get over the past couple of years....entirely out of town for '21, so just online. He has a far better eye than I do, so it'll be interesting to hear what he thinks. Of course, these are just scrimmages, so far from dispositive, but it may be interesting.

All joking aside, I know you come from a fairly prominent lacrosse family, so would be interested on hearing you and your son’s take on the Hopkins goalie crew.

I’m not sure ER can be blamed for most of the goalie issues. Not sure Petro’s coaching staff ever had a top-notch goalie coach (unlike Maryland, obviously). Quinn was one of the best goalies of all time, but not sure that made him a great coach (not saying he wasn’t a good volunteer coach). Recall Petro once attended a seminar on coaching goalies given by a former Princeton AA goalie (I think Trevor Tierney). If he had a top goalie coach on his staff (not necessarily a coach only devoted to the goalies), would he have needed that seminar?

There’s also the issue of a defense that was a mess in Petro’s latter years. Thought Koesterer did a very nice job improving the defense last season.

But the 2020 Hopkins defense or the early 2021 defense? Not sure if even Mike Federico or Larry Quinn would have saved 50% behind that defense.

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

2022 roster is up.

Lots of new numbers.

No objective person can look at that roster and claim that Hopkins lacks talent.

Blue Jays have a lot of talent and some good depth on their roster. For the first time in a while, that includes SSDM and offensive midfield. Even have some depth in goal, I think.

Good athletes, too. Good speed and size.

Blue Jays don’t have the most talent, speed, or size, but they are a solid top-tenish team.

IF the Blue Jays continue their progress from 2021 (admittedly a big “IF”), they could be a tough out for anyone on their schedule.

DocBarrister

Not to throw cold water, but Hop still doesn't have a tender with recent college saves stats remotely high enough to give solid comfort that they can be a top 10 team.

Until that changes to 52+%, probably not gonna happen.

Yes, Kirson did so back at Ohio State, but under 40% last year for Hop in 9 games prior to being injured.

We'll see.
Of course, it's a combination of the defense and the tending itself, but it's just not happened yet...

Versfeld's career Sv% was over 54% at Amherst and as you said Kirson led the Big Ten in Sv% just 2 years ago. So it's not like neither of those guys have a history of performing at that level. Is it just a coincidence you chose 52% as your baseline considering that was Logan's Sv% last season?

I couldn't figure out this question at first, then realized that by "Logan" you meant Maryland's tender...you probably assumed that I'm a UMD fan?...but my moniker doesn't have anything to do with UMD. I came up with that moniker maybe 15 yrs ago on LP, when my son was still in middle school in Baltimore. And I graduated from a local HS in '76....not very creative and probably confusing...

I'm much more of a Hop fan than UMD, grew up 'hopping' the fence to watch Hop games, backing up the goal as a little kid, 60's then early 70's. My dad was a UVA alum and had been the tender on their '52 NC team, so that was my primary rooting interest back then, but he grew up in the Geneva Apartments on St. Paul Street, so had also grown up watching the Hopkins teams and players of his youth. We watched a ton of games together at Homewood! And we both had/have a ton of friends who played/coached for Hop.

My comment about tenders was simply from the perspective of a son of an AA tender, an AA tender myself, and father of a recent all-Ivy tender. In the current era, sub 52% makes it tough to be highly competitive, sub 50% makes it really, really difficult. I'm sure the Hop coaches know this and would agree as to needing that level of performance. Note, these #'s are way lower than in my day, much less my dad's. Stick technology has made it much more challenging to read shots.

As long time participants on this thread know, I'd been highly critical of the former staff's predilection in ER including why this was so problematic with goalie selection. That was really, really obvious to me. I was less 'informed' as to how tenders were then being trained and managed, but the end result was a tough stretch over the last decade of the early Hop goalie recruits in ER not panning out at remotely the prior history of tenders at Hop.

I've assumed that the current staff may do better. Just didn't in '21.

My son and I will be at an upcoming scrimmage as his alma mater will be visiting so may have a better perspective on the Hop goalie crew than I've been able to get over the past couple of years....entirely out of town for '21, so just online. He has a far better eye than I do, so it'll be interesting to hear what he thinks. Of course, these are just scrimmages, so far from dispositive, but it may be interesting.

All joking aside, I know you come from a fairly prominent lacrosse family, so would be interested on hearing you and your son’s take on the Hopkins goalie crew.

I’m not sure ER can be blamed for most of the goalie issues. Not sure Petro’s coaching staff ever had a top-notch goalie coach (unlike Maryland, obviously). Quinn was one of the best goalies of all time, but not sure that made him a great coach (not saying he wasn’t a good volunteer coach). Recall Petro once attended a seminar on coaching goalies given by a former Princeton AA goalie (I think Trevor Tierney). If he had a top goalie coach on his staff (not necessarily a coach only devoted to the goalies), would he have needed that seminar?

There’s also the issue of a defense that was a mess in Petro’s latter years. Thought Koesterer did a very nice job improving the defense last season.

But the 2020 Hopkins defense or the early 2021 defense? Not sure if even Mike Federico or Larry Quinn would have saved 50% behind that defense.

DocBarrister

Yes, IMO Larry or Piggy would have saved 50+%.
But no argument that they played behind tremendous defenses!

My best goalie coach, Dave Allan, was on the staff for part of that time, but my understanding is they had him focused on FO's.

But I think, if it was a coaching issue, it might have been more about a culture in which errors received screaming level criticism (if true); If so, even if not directed at a tender personally, the overall message was that 'mistakes' get you benched (unless you were a favored star). And goalies experience a ton of negative feedback as it is, given that nearly half of the live shots in any given practice go in...but I don't have any real insights on this, just repeating what had been posted a few times by folks who said they knew...for what that's worth.

More clear to me was tracking the kids selected during ER, year after year, with Hop being among the very first to commit a tender, often the very first. It was pretty evident that while the tenders appeared to be talented at these young ages, it was likely to be a poor predictor of how they'd be as they matured. And indeed, time after time, these early goalie picks never even saw the field at Hop and never played at a top level successfully anywhere else. Some never matriculated, others left early in their college years. Too many examples not to be suggestive of a pattern. Not the same as ER of the extraordinary attack men.

[10stone5]

All joking aside, I know you come from a fairly prominent lacrosse family, so would be interested on hearing you and your son’s take on the Hopkins goalie crew.

I’m not sure ER can be blamed for most of the goalie issues. Not sure Petro’s coaching staff ever had a top-notch goalie coach (unlike Maryland, obviously). Quinn was one of the best goalies of all time, but not sure that made him a great coach (not saying he wasn’t a good volunteer coach). Recall Petro once attended a seminar on coaching goalies given by a former Princeton AA goalie (I think Trevor Tierney). If he had a top goalie coach on his staff (not necessarily a coach only devoted to the goalies), would he have needed that seminar?

There’s also the issue of a defense that was a mess in Petro’s latter years. Thought Koesterer did a very nice job improving the defense last season.

But the 2020 Hopkins defense or the early 2021 defense? Not sure if even Mike Federico or Larry Quinn would have saved 50% behind that defense.

DocBarrister

Yes, IMO Larry or Piggy would have saved 50+%.
But no argument that they played behind tremendous defenses!

My best goalie coach, Dave Allan, was on the staff for part of that time, but my understanding is they had him focused on FO's.

But I think, if it was a coaching issue, it might have been more about a culture in which errors received screaming level criticism (if true); If so, even if not directed at a tender personally, the overall message was that 'mistakes' get you benched (unless you were a favored star). And goalies experience a ton of negative feedback as it is, given that nearly half of the live shots in any given practice go in...but I don't have any real insights on this, just repeating what had been posted a few times by folks who said they knew...for what that's worth.

More clear to me was tracking the kids selected during ER, year after year, with Hop being among the very first to commit a tender, often the very first. It was pretty evident that while the tenders appeared to be talented at these young ages, it was likely to be a poor predictor of how they'd be as they matured. And indeed, time after time, these early goalie picks never even saw the field at Hop and never played at a top level successfully anywhere else. Some never matriculated, others left early in their college years. Too many examples not to be suggestive of a pattern. Not the same as ER of the extraordinary attack men.

Larry Quinn’s line in 1984.
saves - 184
goals - 76
save % - .708

Which, btw, the NCAA dopes don’t recognize
that record.

That’s the 2nd best save percent of all time
where in this case, save percent really is meaningful.

[Matnum PI]

Based on Goals Against by season, 2005 was their best D in the 21st Century. In 2005, JHU's D got a score of 20. This is pretty darn good. In the past numerous years, JHU has had negative scores and on occasion, very negative scores. Their D score for the past 8 years are -18, -20, -21, -6, -11, -7, -15, and 3 (in 2014).

[jhu06]

51 talks about roster size but it's also the composition. A lot of other schools put up their initial 2022 rosters. Gr/Srs by 2022 roster-rutgers 28!!! including 14 transfers, duke 23, jhu 18, unc 15, uva 9, maryland not listed yet. Lot of entering freshmen this year and maybe the next 2 who are basically going to have 3 year college careers bc there's so much talent staying an extra year. You'd think for us with 15/18 names on that list figuring to compete or have roles that it would mean we would be able to start faster with more a more experienced lineup.

[MDlaxfan76]

All joking aside, I know you come from a fairly prominent lacrosse family, so would be interested on hearing you and your son’s take on the Hopkins goalie crew.

I’m not sure ER can be blamed for most of the goalie issues. Not sure Petro’s coaching staff ever had a top-notch goalie coach (unlike Maryland, obviously). Quinn was one of the best goalies of all time, but not sure that made him a great coach (not saying he wasn’t a good volunteer coach). Recall Petro once attended a seminar on coaching goalies given by a former Princeton AA goalie (I think Trevor Tierney). If he had a top goalie coach on his staff (not necessarily a coach only devoted to the goalies), would he have needed that seminar?

There’s also the issue of a defense that was a mess in Petro’s latter years. Thought Koesterer did a very nice job improving the defense last season.

But the 2020 Hopkins defense or the early 2021 defense? Not sure if even Mike Federico or Larry Quinn would have saved 50% behind that defense.

DocBarrister

Yes, IMO Larry or Piggy would have saved 50+%.
But no argument that they played behind tremendous defenses!

My best goalie coach, Dave Allan, was on the staff for part of that time, but my understanding is they had him focused on FO's.

But I think, if it was a coaching issue, it might have been more about a culture in which errors received screaming level criticism (if true); If so, even if not directed at a tender personally, the overall message was that 'mistakes' get you benched (unless you were a favored star). And goalies experience a ton of negative feedback as it is, given that nearly half of the live shots in any given practice go in...but I don't have any real insights on this, just repeating what had been posted a few times by folks who said they knew...for what that's worth.

More clear to me was tracking the kids selected during ER, year after year, with Hop being among the very first to commit a tender, often the very first. It was pretty evident that while the tenders appeared to be talented at these young ages, it was likely to be a poor predictor of how they'd be as they matured. And indeed, time after time, these early goalie picks never even saw the field at Hop and never played at a top level successfully anywhere else. Some never matriculated, others left early in their college years. Too many examples not to be suggestive of a pattern. Not the same as ER of the extraordinary attack men.

Larry Quinn’s line in 1984.
saves - 184
goals - 76
save % - .708

Which, btw, the NCAA dopes don’t recognize
that record.

That’s the 2nd best save percent of all time
where in this case, save percent really is meaningful.

Pretty darn extraordinary. Great tender, great defense.

Not that we should expect those sorts of stats from the top players in the current era, stick tech etc.
It's still possible to have a 60% year, but extremely rare if playing against top competition.

My point about 52% is that puts a tender in the top third of all D1 tenders, including from teams that don't face anywhere near the same quality of shots.

Pretty much any final 8 teams need that at a minimum. Could always be an exception, but odds...

[flalax22]

While we're on the topic of goalies, found it interesting Terry Foy basically said Webb was the best goalie at that practice. It's just one practice, but it's something. 51 is going to have to brush up on his Dragnet if the kid ends up starting. Also noticed he's keeping the #14 in the LB family after Williams.

I've got a lot of respect for Hawley for sticking around—after Uncle Dave was pink-slipped and then he was hurt last year he easily could have packed up his things and taken the first train to the Dome or Terpville but, for whatever reason, he stayed and I hope he finds a role. Kid had some nice moments on the faceoff wing in 2020 and that's one area it seems like we always could use some help with. Obviously the idea is for Fernandez to contribute there as well.

I'm hoping that Webb has a great career at Hop, whether he gets lots of PT or not. I know Jack and his family well, have known Jack since he was just 9, so am rooting for him on a personal level. But I don't think that's coloring my perspective. I'm not projecting him as the #1 in 2022, though if the ball bounces that way I'll certainly be smiling for him.

My comment was that Hop needs to have a solid 52+% tender to have an expectation of being a top 10 team. To clarify...for Hopkins.

The current roster doesn't have such proven performance...yet.

I’ve heard a few times this fall that Webb is the real deal and will be on the field sooner or later and much more likely sooner. Out of curiosity was he a PM or DP recruit. I’ve heard some differing opinions on that.

He was PM's. Petro recruited Demopolous who then flipped to Brown after the coaching change. Then Webb was brought in to replace him. I believe he committed in August of last year, a few months after PM started. He explained his rather unusual recruiting process at 17:16 on this podcast: https://laxgoalierat.com/jack-webb/

Thanks.

[51percentcorn]

I think MD makes a ton of great points - ER is likely the main culprit - even this current recruiting timeline - just finished sophomore year is likely too early to be projecting goalie 5 stars.
Here's the Hopkins goalie stats since Jesse left:
2008 - Gvozden - 60% - NCAA Finalist
2009 - Gvozden - 50% - NCAA Quarterfinalist - team actually competed pretty well that season until completely falling apart against UVA
2010 - Gvozden 53% - Bassett - 53% - Horrible first round loss to Duke
2011 - Bassett 57% - though story here - was under 50% second half of season and did not play well against Denver in quarters
2012 - Bassett 51% - again did not play well in bad quarters loss to Maryland - 39% save percentage in the 2011/2012 playoff losses
2013 - Bassett - 60% - his most consistent year - however the lost season due to the suspensions - kid deserves credit for all the jumping around of the roster
2014 - Schneider - 55% - while the final margin was large - Hopkins had National Champion paying attention cutting lead to 1 in the third in quarterfinals
2015 - Schneider - 49% - the OCanada story that someone helped him with a mechanical flaw that improved play all the way to the Final Four
2016- Turnbaugh - 47%
2017 - Logan - 48% Turnbuagh 40%
2018 - Turnbaugh 50%
2019 - Darby 45%
2020 - Darby 47%
2021 - Kirson 40% Marcille 47%

So in the last 7 years - Hopkins has managed to scrape out one 50% performance - now of course this isn't meant to imply that the goalie is singularly responsible for anything - defenses in front of him were not off the charts - certainly no coincidence that Bassett had folks like Durkin in front of him but also no coincidence that 2008/2011/2014/2018 were probably the most successful teams in the second half of Petro's tenure with the sole exception of 2015 where A) the goalie improved as the season progressed and B)with the influx of Shack/Tinney/Crawley etc. Hopkins was more dangerous offensively

It's the number one thing to figure out - face-offs are likely to be OK - the offense has 3 to 4 very experienced players - some of the sophomores could break out - defense has some new pieces but shouldn't be a conspicuous liability unless LSM is a big problem. Have to put the best guy out there between the 6's

[jhu06]

I think MD makes a ton of great points - ER is likely the main culprit - even this current recruiting timeline - just finished sophomore year is likely too early to be projecting goalie 5 stars.
Here's the Hopkins goalie stats since Jesse left:
2008 - Gvozden - 60% - NCAA Finalist
2009 - Gvozden - 50% - NCAA Quarterfinalist - team actually competed pretty well that season until completely falling apart against UVA
2010 - Gvozden 53% - Bassett - 53% - Horrible first round loss to Duke
2011 - Bassett 57% - though story here - was under 50% second half of season and did not play well against Denver in quarters
2012 - Bassett 51% - again did not play well in bad quarters loss to Maryland - 39% save percentage in the 2011/2012 playoff losses
2013 - Bassett - 60% - his most consistent year - however the lost season due to the suspensions - kid deserves credit for all the jumping around of the roster
2014 - Schneider - 55% - while the final margin was large - Hopkins had National Champion paying attention cutting lead to 1 in the third in quarterfinals
2015 - Schneider - 49% - the OCanada story that someone helped him with a mechanical flaw that improved play all the way to the Final Four
2016- Turnbaugh - 47%
2017 - Logan - 48% Turnbuagh 40%
2018 - Turnbaugh 50%
2019 - Darby 45%
2020 - Darby 47%
2021 - Kirson 40% Marcille 47%

So in the last 7 years - Hopkins has managed to scrape out one 50% performance - now of course this isn't meant to imply that the goalie is singularly responsible for anything - defenses in front of him were not off the charts - certainly no coincidence that Bassett had folks like Durkin in front of him but also no coincidence that 2008/2011/2014/2018 were probably the most successful teams in the second half of Petro's tenure with the sole exception of 2015 where A) the goalie improved as the season progressed and B)with the influx of Shack/Tinney/Crawley etc. Hopkins was more dangerous offensively

It's the number one thing to figure out - face-offs are likely to be OK - the offense has 3 to 4 very experienced players - some of the sophomores could break out - defense has some new pieces but shouldn't be a conspicuous liability unless LSM is a big problem. Have to put the best guy out there between the 6's

you compare this to maryland's goaltending and you see the difference the last decade in what they've done and what we've done in may.

[Henpecked]

I think MD makes a ton of great points - ER is likely the main culprit - even this current recruiting timeline - just finished sophomore year is likely too early to be projecting goalie 5 stars.
Here's the Hopkins goalie stats since Jesse left:
2008 - Gvozden - 60% - NCAA Finalist
2009 - Gvozden - 50% - NCAA Quarterfinalist - team actually competed pretty well that season until completely falling apart against UVA
2010 - Gvozden 53% - Bassett - 53% - Horrible first round loss to Duke
2011 - Bassett 57% - though story here - was under 50% second half of season and did not play well against Denver in quarters
2012 - Bassett 51% - again did not play well in bad quarters loss to Maryland - 39% save percentage in the 2011/2012 playoff losses
2013 - Bassett - 60% - his most consistent year - however the lost season due to the suspensions - kid deserves credit for all the jumping around of the roster
2014 - Schneider - 55% - while the final margin was large - Hopkins had National Champion paying attention cutting lead to 1 in the third in quarterfinals
2015 - Schneider - 49% - the OCanada story that someone helped him with a mechanical flaw that improved play all the way to the Final Four
2016- Turnbaugh - 47%
2017 - Logan - 48% Turnbuagh 40%
2018 - Turnbaugh 50%
2019 - Darby 45%
2020 - Darby 47%
2021 - Kirson 40% Marcille 47%

So in the last 7 years - Hopkins has managed to scrape out one 50% performance - now of course this isn't meant to imply that the goalie is singularly responsible for anything - defenses in front of him were not off the charts - certainly no coincidence that Bassett had folks like Durkin in front of him but also no coincidence that 2008/2011/2014/2018 were probably the most successful teams in the second half of Petro's tenure with the sole exception of 2015 where A) the goalie improved as the season progressed and B)with the influx of Shack/Tinney/Crawley etc. Hopkins was more dangerous offensively

It's the number one thing to figure out - face-offs are likely to be OK - the offense has 3 to 4 very experienced players - some of the sophomores could break out - defense has some new pieces but shouldn't be a conspicuous liability unless LSM is a big problem. Have to put the best guy out there between the 6's

you compare this to maryland's goaltending and you see the difference the last decade in what they've done and what we've done in may.

Since you asked...

Maryland
'21 Mcnaney 52%
'20 Brandau 51%
'20 McNaney 49%
'19 Dolan 51%
'18 Morris 53%
'17 Morris 55%
'16 Bernlohr 53%
'15 Bernlohr 57%
'14 Amato 56%

[HopFan16]

you compare this to maryland's goaltending and you see the difference the last decade in what they've done and what we've done in may.

They've also had two of the last four Tewaaraton winners.

Not sure why we're having this same exact goalie discussion for what seems like the literal hundredth time. Our goalie play has stunk for several years and it's capped the ceiling of overall team success. Don't think many people will disagree with that.

51 makes a good point though—it's especially important now because most other areas are either strengths or "good enough" that you can make noise in May with, but you can't do the same with 40% in between the pipes. So the relative importance is even higher IMO. Goalie play was the biggest difference in the B1G title game vs. Maryland. Look at the stats of that game—pretty much everything else was even. In fact we won the groundball battle handedly 37-25 despite FOs being even at 13. Only glaring weakness against the eventual NCAA runner-up was goalie play.

#1 recruit Millon picks Duke—better for us than UVA/UNC/Maryland I suppose.

[Drcthru]

All joking aside, I know you come from a fairly prominent lacrosse family, so would be interested on hearing you and your son’s take on the Hopkins goalie crew.

I’m not sure ER can be blamed for most of the goalie issues. Not sure Petro’s coaching staff ever had a top-notch goalie coach (unlike Maryland, obviously). Quinn was one of the best goalies of all time, but not sure that made him a great coach (not saying he wasn’t a good volunteer coach). Recall Petro once attended a seminar on coaching goalies given by a former Princeton AA goalie (I think Trevor Tierney). If he had a top goalie coach on his staff (not necessarily a coach only devoted to the goalies), would he have needed that seminar?

There’s also the issue of a defense that was a mess in Petro’s latter years. Thought Koesterer did a very nice job improving the defense last season.

But the 2020 Hopkins defense or the early 2021 defense? Not sure if even Mike Federico or Larry Quinn would have saved 50% behind that defense.

DocBarrister

Yes, IMO Larry or Piggy would have saved 50+%.
But no argument that they played behind tremendous defenses!

My best goalie coach, Dave Allan, was on the staff for part of that time, but my understanding is they had him focused on FO's.

But I think, if it was a coaching issue, it might have been more about a culture in which errors received screaming level criticism (if true); If so, even if not directed at a tender personally, the overall message was that 'mistakes' get you benched (unless you were a favored star). And goalies experience a ton of negative feedback as it is, given that nearly half of the live shots in any given practice go in...but I don't have any real insights on this, just repeating what had been posted a few times by folks who said they knew...for what that's worth.

More clear to me was tracking the kids selected during ER, year after year, with Hop being among the very first to commit a tender, often the very first. It was pretty evident that while the tenders appeared to be talented at these young ages, it was likely to be a poor predictor of how they'd be as they matured. And indeed, time after time, these early goalie picks never even saw the field at Hop and never played at a top level successfully anywhere else. Some never matriculated, others left early in their college years. Too many examples not to be suggestive of a pattern. Not the same as ER of the extraordinary attack men.

Larry Quinn’s line in 1984.
saves - 184
goals - 76
save % - .708https://connect.xfinity.com/appsuite
/#!!&app=io.ox/mail&folder=default0//QTHRY

Which, btw, the NCAA dopes don’t recognize
that record.

That’s the 2nd best save percent of all time
where in this case, save percent really is meaningful.

LQ was .765 in the 1985 NC. Hopkins 11 Syracuse 4. When asked if in his wildest dreams he would have held Cuse to 4 goals
he responded "in my wildest dreams I shut them out!"

[MDlaxfan76]

All joking aside, I know you come from a fairly prominent lacrosse family, so would be interested on hearing you and your son’s take on the Hopkins goalie crew.

I’m not sure ER can be blamed for most of the goalie issues. Not sure Petro’s coaching staff ever had a top-notch goalie coach (unlike Maryland, obviously). Quinn was one of the best goalies of all time, but not sure that made him a great coach (not saying he wasn’t a good volunteer coach). Recall Petro once attended a seminar on coaching goalies given by a former Princeton AA goalie (I think Trevor Tierney). If he had a top goalie coach on his staff (not necessarily a coach only devoted to the goalies), would he have needed that seminar?

There’s also the issue of a defense that was a mess in Petro’s latter years. Thought Koesterer did a very nice job improving the defense last season.

But the 2020 Hopkins defense or the early 2021 defense? Not sure if even Mike Federico or Larry Quinn would have saved 50% behind that defense.

DocBarrister

Yes, IMO Larry or Piggy would have saved 50+%.
But no argument that they played behind tremendous defenses!

My best goalie coach, Dave Allan, was on the staff for part of that time, but my understanding is they had him focused on FO's.

But I think, if it was a coaching issue, it might have been more about a culture in which errors received screaming level criticism (if true); If so, even if not directed at a tender personally, the overall message was that 'mistakes' get you benched (unless you were a favored star). And goalies experience a ton of negative feedback as it is, given that nearly half of the live shots in any given practice go in...but I don't have any real insights on this, just repeating what had been posted a few times by folks who said they knew...for what that's worth.

More clear to me was tracking the kids selected during ER, year after year, with Hop being among the very first to commit a tender, often the very first. It was pretty evident that while the tenders appeared to be talented at these young ages, it was likely to be a poor predictor of how they'd be as they matured. And indeed, time after time, these early goalie picks never even saw the field at Hop and never played at a top level successfully anywhere else. Some never matriculated, others left early in their college years. Too many examples not to be suggestive of a pattern. Not the same as ER of the extraordinary attack men.

Larry Quinn’s line in 1984.
saves - 184
goals - 76
save % - .708https://connect.xfinity.com/appsuite
/#!!&app=io.ox/mail&folder=default0//QTHRY

Which, btw, the NCAA dopes don’t recognize
that record.

That’s the 2nd best save percent of all time
where in this case, save percent really is meaningful.

LQ was .765 in the 1985 NC. Hopkins 11 Syracuse 4. When asked if in his wildest dreams he would have held Cuse to 4 goals
he responded "in my wildest dreams I shut them out!"

One of the all-time great goalie quotes and indeed exactly the right attitude!

[MDlaxfan76]

I think MD makes a ton of great points - ER is likely the main culprit - even this current recruiting timeline - just finished sophomore year is likely too early to be projecting goalie 5 stars.
Here's the Hopkins goalie stats since Jesse left:
2008 - Gvozden - 60% - NCAA Finalist
2009 - Gvozden - 50% - NCAA Quarterfinalist - team actually competed pretty well that season until completely falling apart against UVA
2010 - Gvozden 53% - Bassett - 53% - Horrible first round loss to Duke
2011 - Bassett 57% - though story here - was under 50% second half of season and did not play well against Denver in quarters
2012 - Bassett 51% - again did not play well in bad quarters loss to Maryland - 39% save percentage in the 2011/2012 playoff losses
2013 - Bassett - 60% - his most consistent year - however the lost season due to the suspensions - kid deserves credit for all the jumping around of the roster
2014 - Schneider - 55% - while the final margin was large - Hopkins had National Champion paying attention cutting lead to 1 in the third in quarterfinals
2015 - Schneider - 49% - the OCanada story that someone helped him with a mechanical flaw that improved play all the way to the Final Four
2016- Turnbaugh - 47%
2017 - Logan - 48% Turnbuagh 40%
2018 - Turnbaugh 50%
2019 - Darby 45%
2020 - Darby 47%
2021 - Kirson 40% Marcille 47%

So in the last 7 years - Hopkins has managed to scrape out one 50% performance - now of course this isn't meant to imply that the goalie is singularly responsible for anything - defenses in front of him were not off the charts - certainly no coincidence that Bassett had folks like Durkin in front of him but also no coincidence that 2008/2011/2014/2018 were probably the most successful teams in the second half of Petro's tenure with the sole exception of 2015 where A) the goalie improved as the season progressed and B)with the influx of Shack/Tinney/Crawley etc. Hopkins was more dangerous offensively

It's the number one thing to figure out - face-offs are likely to be OK - the offense has 3 to 4 very experienced players - some of the sophomores could break out - defense has some new pieces but shouldn't be a conspicuous liability unless LSM is a big problem. Have to put the best guy out there between the 6's

And who, after Bassett and Schneider, among that crew was actually the first goalie recruit named by Hop vs a replacement shuffle or a transfer in?

Pretty sure the initial recruited tender from HS class of 2012 onward (exception Darby) either never got to Hop or transferred out or never was the starter (and if my recollection is correct, none of them did 50+% anywhere else)...Eric Schneider being the last...Darby committed before his freshman HS season in 2014...Feit as a sophomore way back in 2010.

[HopFan16]

Speaking of goalies

4 star junior PJ Verdi, G, Chaminade (N.Y.) / @ExpressLacrosse has committed to @JHUmenslacrosse. Next in a long line of stud Flyer stoppers, Verdi missed time this summer but had already established himself as one of the more polished '23 keepers

https://twitter.com/tyxanders/status/14 ... 8825811973

The Long Island Offensive continues. Looks like a big kid.

[51percentcorn]

This is really not an indictment but I always thought it strange I guess that a Long Island catholic school graduate didn't really recruit or have much success at the two big LI Catholic powers - can't remember the last Chaminade recruit - there have been a couple from St. Anthony's