Page 66 of 191
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:34 pm
by youthathletics
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:43 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:18 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 2:07 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:40 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:14 pm
So how many of you on this forum forget this simple fact? Most Muslims deny the right of Israel to even exists. Where is the middle ground to begin in that discussion? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I think Israel has a right to exist. The UN made that decision a long time ago.
I don’t know any muslim personally that feels that way. Do you? How did you come up with “most”?
How about the vast majority?? The next Muslim leader that acknowledges Israel has a right to exist will be the first one that I'm aware of. I'm guessing if your a Muslim who openly supports Israel your life expectancy will diminish rapidly. The UN gave Israel the right to exist as a nation. It has all gone downhill from there. If anybody out there sees a light at the end of the tunnel I would hope you would share your optimism.
For your edification, cradle:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_su ... _of_Israel
and as to countries which recognize Israel's right to exist, a whole lot of Muslim countries and leaders have done so: Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Sudan, Chad, Morocco...The Saudis were getting close...
https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... ize-israel
Thank you for the edification. You think I didn't already know this? So what major Muslim leader has Israels back today??
Walking both sides of the street...
https://www.pressahmadiyya.com/press-re ... srael-war/
Reminding Muslims of the Islamic injunctions, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad said:
“Even in a state of war, Islam does not permit the killing of women, children, elderly and innocent civilians. The Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) gave strict instructions against doing so… In this recent escalation of the war, Hamas made the first move and attacked Israeli citizens. Leaving aside for a moment the fact that innocent people have been unjustly killed by the Israeli army, Muslims should ensure that they always adhere to the teachings of Islam.”.....continued in link.
Unfortunately, it is not a concerted front.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:44 pm
by youthathletics
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:57 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 2:07 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:40 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:14 pm
So how many of you on this forum forget this simple fact? Most Muslims deny the right of Israel to even exists. Where is the middle ground to begin in that discussion? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I think Israel has a right to exist. The UN made that decision a long time ago.
I don’t know any muslim personally that feels that way. Do you? How did you come up with “most”?
How about the vast majority?? The next Muslim leader that acknowledges Israel has a right to exist will be the first one that I'm aware of. I'm guessing if your a Muslim who openly supports Israel your life expectancy will diminish rapidly. The UN gave Israel the right to exist as a nation. It has all gone downhill from there. If anybody out there sees a light at the end of the tunnel I would hope you would share your optimism.
I was wondering about the people. I just don’t know anyone personally that feels that way but I only have 5 or 6 muslim friends.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 9:57 pm
by a fan
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:57 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 2:07 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:40 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:14 pm
So how many of you on this forum forget this simple fact? Most Muslims deny the right of Israel to even exists. Where is the middle ground to begin in that discussion? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I think Israel has a right to exist. The UN made that decision a long time ago.
I don’t know any muslim personally that feels that way. Do you? How did you come up with “most”?
How about the vast majority?? The next Muslim leader that acknowledges Israel has a right to exist will be the first one that I'm aware of. I'm guessing if your a Muslim who openly supports Israel your life expectancy will diminish rapidly. The UN gave Israel the right to exist as a nation. It has all gone downhill from there. If anybody out there sees a light at the end of the tunnel I would hope you would share your optimism.
I was wondering about the people. I just don’t know anyone personally that feels that way but I only have 5 or 6 muslim friends.
The one's I know well all want to live in peace, and realize that sh(theads on both sides are intentionally ruining any chance of peace.
I knew plenty who wanted Israel out, but in the way Brookie advocates......take all the weapons and fences away, let Muslims run things, and sit back and watch what happens.
My daughter has a bestie with a Palestinian Dad....and another bestie that has been to Israel several times.
Wanna have your heart broken? Have your 8yo daughter ask "which side are we on?" That was a swell conversation.
...and folks wonder why I'm the board's peacenik.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:07 pm
by Brooklyn
I knew plenty who wanted Israel out, but in the way Brookie advocates......take all the weapons and fences away, let Muslims run things, and sit back and watch what happens.
Nice spin on things.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:17 pm
by a fan
Brooklyn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:07 pm
I knew plenty who wanted Israel out, but in the way Brookie advocates......take all the weapons and fences away, let Muslims run things, and sit back and watch what happens.
Nice spin on things.
It's what you said....here ya go. You're telling me with a serious face that the Jewish people and Israel would exist under your "plan"?
Should be self explanatory. Just allow citizenship and equal rights to all people within its borders. Had this happened as was proposed 60 years ago, by now Muslims would have been the majority and the country would have been at peace just as in the days of the Spanish Arabic dynasties.
In what world would the Jewish people not get wiped out with 60 years of this "plan" where you yourself are telling me "by now Muslims would have been the majority".
That's a pretty euphemistic way of putting what the above sentence actually means, Brookie. It means: no Israel.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:21 pm
by NattyBohChamps04
Al-Andalus was at peace for the duration of its reign? That's gloriously and hilariously and very sadly a no.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:40 am
by Brooklyn
a fan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:17 pm
Brooklyn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:07 pm
I knew plenty who wanted Israel out, but in the way Brookie advocates......take all the weapons and fences away, let Muslims run things, and sit back and watch what happens.
Nice spin on things.
It's what you said....here ya go. You're telling me with a serious face that the Jewish people and Israel would exist under your "plan"?
Should be self explanatory. Just allow citizenship and equal rights to all people within its borders. Had this happened as was proposed 60 years ago, by now Muslims would have been the majority and the country would have been at peace just as in the days of the Spanish Arabic dynasties.
In what world would the Jewish people not get wiped out with 60 years of this "plan" where you yourself are telling me "by now Muslims would have been the majority".
That's a pretty euphemistic way of putting what the above sentence actually means, Brookie. It means: no Israel.
How does majority rule suddenly mean the decimation of a people?
Anglo Saxons are the vast majority in the USA. Has this meant the decimation of all else?
No because we have one UNITED States of America. Israel should do the same. See my earlier quote where the government professes to be a "democratic state". Now let's see them practice what they profess to be.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:47 am
by Brooklyn
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 11:21 pm
Al-Andalus was at peace for the duration of its reign? That's gloriously and hilariously and very sadly a no.
''the history of Al-Andalus indicates that Muslims, Christians, and Jews who lived within Al-Andalus had relatively peaceful relations"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_an ... al-Andalus
Most of the trouble arose either because of invasions from present day Morocco or because of terroristic violence by Christians. But overall, it was a largely a 700+ year reign of peace and progress. Do some homework on the subject as it makes for good reading.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:02 am
by Brooklyn
Strange, how certain right wing delusionals demand democracy at home (and even demand the right to keep weapons to insure its continuation), supported invading Afghanistan and Iraq supposedly to promote democracy in those countries, and even applauded the Arab Spring in the old LP. But for some bizarre reason, they hate the idea of democracy in Israel.
Double standards, much
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:38 am
by old salt
OCanada wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:49 am
OS strikes agaim. He is do squeezable soft.
Benjamin Netanyahu’s political career os almost certainly over. be over. He has ruled over the worst military calamity in Israel’s recent history and cone what he could to redirect Israel from its core priorities.
Israel and the USA mishandled the intelligence the Egyptian government provided which was correct. A neighbor working for an alphabet agency, in response to a question, said both countries should have at least dome a cursory look into it.
Bengies’ strategy is flat out bad and has the potential to screw the globe.
Bengie may go to jail yet
None of which has anything to do with Israel's intelligence failure, unless you have evidence that Bibi ignored specific intel warnings of the impending attack or disregarded the scope of the Hamas capability & tactics.
The political ghouls here in the safety of their cheap suits can't wait to make Bibi a scapegoat.
Give us more info on the Egyptian intel. The Newsweek article posted in this thread said it was non specific.
It's ridiculous to assert that both US & Israeli intel would ignore credible, specific Egyptian intel.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:41 am
by old salt
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:36 am
That IS the time for partisan nonsense because he said so!
If you can't distinguish between the Hunter Biden coverup & what is happening in Israel, it shows how shallow you are.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:50 am
by Kismet
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:54 am
by old salt
Yeah. I want Hunter to pay his taxes like you & I do, Whacked out.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:00 am
by Kismet
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:04 am
by Farfromgeneva
Brooklyn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:32 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 5:14 pm
Reminder: I'm not on the "right" as you're calling it, and I certainly don't adhere to strict constructionism, original intent etc, and certainly not the far right's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment (se the podcast I linked on the guns thread yesterday)..
Suggestion: Pay attention to whom you are trying to insult.
I have zero desire to enter into any debate with a rabbinical scholar. I am merely observing that the specific interpretations you have presented are tiny minority views in the history of rabbinical midrash and current teaching as well. That's enough for me to dismiss your pronouncements of a singular interpretation as "truth" with "ya und ?" as my Swiss friend would say.
On the Constitutional argument, I hear the argument, but I will again maintain that SCOTUS has never expanded such concerns to our foreign aid support or treaty alliances with other nations. Quite the contrary, those decisions are powers understood to be held by the Legislative and Executive.
And I will again maintain that your desire to expand such as never found any serious foothold in Constitutional jurisprudence and scholarship...makes for good TP, that's all.
Ok, if you fall back position is that there are some small percentage of Jews who are actually anti-zionist and some are not Orthodox, fine by me. Communism, marxism, also have their adherents among a small percentage...indeed, considerable overlap, but we're still talking small.
Finally, I'll cast no broad aspersions on CCNY and its graduates.
What the heck is "insulting" you? Like "rock throwing" that is uncalled for.
Again, not a tiny amount of people but a significant amount. We will never have the actual numbers but large Orthodox anti Israel rallies have appeared in NY and I gave you an organization whose membership is well over 400,000. Kindly stop repeating yourself.
As for jurisprudence, yeah that's too bad that it has not been tested in the courts. But you know how the SC is ~ just another political institution in itself.
CCNY = # 1. No school has ever championed the cause of the poor and under privileged more than it has. Back in the day in New York some folks use to say that there is New York University and Jew York University meaning CCNY because of all the liberal Jews it had so many of whom fought for those in need.
I at least know who I am. Do you have any earthly idea how you communicate with people anymore?
For on you within a few pages to MD:
If you're so smart why don't you go ahead and have a debate with those rabbis? Show them how "smart" you are. I'll be very interested to see how great your knowledge of Hebrew is compared to them.
Furthermore, if you can set aside your snobbery, let's bear in mind that none of that schitt that does on overseas is any of our godd@mn business
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:05 am
by Farfromgeneva
tech37 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:58 pm
PizzaSnake wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 2:13 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 2:07 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:40 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:14 pm
So how many of you on this forum forget this simple fact? Most Muslims deny the right of Israel to even exists. Where is the middle ground to begin in that discussion? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I think Israel has a right to exist. The UN made that decision a long time ago.
I don’t know any muslim personally that feels that way. Do you? How did you come up with “most”?
How about the vast majority?? The next Muslim leader that acknowledges Israel has a right to exist will be the first one that I'm aware of. I'm guessing if your a Muslim who openly supports Israel your life expectancy will diminish rapidly. The UN gave Israel the right to exist as a nation. ]It has all gone downhill from there.
If anybody out there sees a light at the end of the tunnel I would hope you would share your optimism.
So what is YOUR plan, hmm?
How about these questions:
Are the residents of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank humans?
Are they entitled to any rights?
Don’t want to hear about elections and politicians and leaders. Tell me about the humans.
Ha!...such bullsh!t pizza. Aren't you the one always telling us what useless garbage humans are? But now to badger C&S with his understandable POV, you've become some sort of humanitarian? Quite selective on your part, not to mention the hypocrisy
Says the rabbit punch and run guy!
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:08 am
by Farfromgeneva
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:57 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 2:07 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:40 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 1:14 pm
So how many of you on this forum forget this simple fact? Most Muslims deny the right of Israel to even exists. Where is the middle ground to begin in that discussion? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I think Israel has a right to exist. The UN made that decision a long time ago.
I don’t know any muslim personally that feels that way. Do you? How did you come up with “most”?
How about the vast majority?? The next Muslim leader that acknowledges Israel has a right to exist will be the first one that I'm aware of. I'm guessing if your a Muslim who openly supports Israel your life expectancy will diminish rapidly. The UN gave Israel the right to exist as a nation. It has all gone downhill from there. If anybody out there sees a light at the end of the tunnel I would hope you would share your optimism.
I was wondering about the people. I just don’t know anyone personally that feels that way but I only have 5 or 6 muslim friends.
Obviously plenty want them gonzo and then thoughtful and civilized ones with a shred of empathy dont. Those are the ones we know generally, I’ve met some hardcore ones but mainly because a lot or royal family and rich middle easterners send their kids to AU for some reason I can only speculate is like how Eddie Murphy is going to find his woman in America.
Getting cradle to communicate in less than absolute terms? Less likely than finding a peaceful solution in Israel.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:09 am
by Farfromgeneva
Maybe he’s got a crush on him like I do on Natalie Portman.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2023 7:11 am
by Farfromgeneva
a fan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:17 pm
Brooklyn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2023 10:07 pm
I knew plenty who wanted Israel out, but in the way Brookie advocates......take all the weapons and fences away, let Muslims run things, and sit back and watch what happens.
Nice spin on things.
It's what you said....here ya go. You're telling me with a serious face that the Jewish people and Israel would exist under your "plan"?
Should be self explanatory. Just allow citizenship and equal rights to all people within its borders. Had this happened as was proposed 60 years ago, by now Muslims would have been the majority and the country would have been at peace just as in the days of the Spanish Arabic dynasties.
In what world would the Jewish people not get wiped out with 60 years of this "plan" where you yourself are telling me "by now Muslims would have been the majority".
That's a pretty euphemistic way of putting what the above sentence actually means, Brookie. It means: no Israel.
Imagine if I let my children self govern their relationship with each other?
Unfortunately that may seem parochial but is applicable.
(Best use of that above was a buddy who ran Bank of China NY branch which branch means US operations when countries don’t have full banking licenses this was true of some large Euro banks as well. My guy who was in his 50s after a career in banking “eh I don’t do much. They just needed an American to mind the children”)
.